How we know Hitler was right wing.

[bigrebnc1775]

Saigon your right wing in Europe is still left compared to the right wing in America.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Another idiot that think nationalizing resources is a right wing policy.

Prior coming to this board, I had never heard anyone suggest Hitler was anything but right wing. This may be something to do with living in Europe where the awareness of fascism is so very high because it occured here, or maybe it's something our education system focuses on. Or maybe coincidence.

Before coming to this board you thought that Barney Frank was right wing.

Either way, recently I've noticed two posters recently insist Hitler was left wing....and even liberal.

Here is SSDD:

Hitler's government was called right wing by communists and socialists of the time, but his governemnt was still socialist. It consisted of a large and powerful central authority which is, by definition, not a conservative, or classically lberal government

Right wing and left wing are two wings of the same house and the house is socialism.

In cases like this, I am not sure facts have a great deal of impact, but maybe it is interesting to discuss some of the features of Fascism anyway.

This should be entertaining.

Let's start with some quotes from Hitler:

"The main plank in the Nationalist Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood."

Feel free to point out which political leader in the US today thinks that community trumps the individual. Would that sound more like, a "center right" moderate community organizer, or a right wing radical like Rand Paul?

"The German state is gravely attacked by Marxism."

And?

"In the years 1913 and 1914, I… expressed the conviction that the question of the future of the German nation was the question of destroying Marxism."

Still not seeing it.

"In the economic sphere Communism is analogous to democracy in the political sphere."

Does that mean he was anti-democracy or pro- communism?

"The Marxists will march with democracy until they succeed in indirectly obtaining for their criminal aims the support of even the national intellectual world, destined by them for extinction."

I get it now, this, combined with his previous quote, proves he was pro communism.

No wonder you thought he was right wing.

"Marxism itself systematically plans to hand the world over to the Jews."

Now I am confused. Given that the right wing wants to hand the world over to the Jews, and the left wing wants to end their control of the world's financial market, why on Earth would you think he is right wing?

"The Jewish doctrine of Marxism rejects the aristocratic principle of Nature and replaces the eternal privilege of power and strength by the mass of numbers and their dead weight."

Myth: Hitler was a leftist

Yep, that is conclusive, Hitler was left wing. Was that your point?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For anyone interested in this topic, there are a couple of books I'd really recommend:

Hubris & Nemesis (2 volumes) by Ian Kershaw

Hitler: 1889-1936 Hubris: Ian Kershaw: 9780393320350: Amazon.com: Books

This details hitler's life in immense detail, but explains a lot about his politics and thinking.

Eichmann in Jersualem by Hannah Arendt

Amazon.com: Eichmann in Jerusalem (Penguin Classics) (9780143039884): Hannah Arendt: Books

Still the best book ever written on the Holocaust and the politics behind it.

The Court of the Red Tsar by Montefiore

Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar: Simon Sebag Montefiore: 9781400076789: Amazon.com: Books

The best biography of Stalin also highlights how opposite his thinking was to Hitler's.

You were right about one thing, facts have absolutely no impact on you.

 

[whitehall]

Lefties love political labels. It makes it easy for the ignorant to make a grand statement about political philosophy without all the work associated with historical research. Hitler was a progressive socialist consistent with the 30's socialist movement that was sweeping Europe.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Intense -

Not all tyrants and dictators share the same philosophy and ideology. Yes, Stalin, Mao and Hitler were tyrants and dictators, but no, Hitler was not a communist.

The funny thing is, I have never seen a left wing poster attempt to re-write history and claim Stalin was right wing. And yet this week we have seen TWO right-wing posters attempt to re-write history and pretend Hitler was left wing.

I'm curious, what do you view as the major distinctions between Hitler and Stalin?

One had an authoritarian regime where well connected corporations operated as adjuncts of the central authority, merging both economic and governmental roles to the point that corporate and state power were indistinguishable. The other was Hitler.

One had a rigid, authoritarian dictatorship based on a collectivist model, where terror kept the populace from questioning central planning policies, the other was Stalin.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Intense -

Not all tyrants and dictators share the same philosophy and ideology. Yes, Stalin, Mao and Hitler were tyrants and dictators, but no, Hitler was not a communist.

The funny thing is, I have never seen a left wing poster attempt to re-write history and claim Stalin was right wing. And yet this week we have seen TWO right-wing posters attempt to re-write history and pretend Hitler was left wing.

I'm curious, what do you view as the major distinctions between Hitler and Stalin?

One had an authoritarian regime where well connected corporations operated as adjuncts of the central authority, merging both economic and governmental roles to the point that corporate and state power were indistinguishable. The other was Hitler.

One had a rigid, authoritarian dictatorship based on a collectivist model, where terror kept the populace from questioning central planning policies, the other was Stalin.

I don't know about the drooling idiot, but I think it is that Hitler hit Stalin first.

 

[Uncensored2008]

To those who are saying 'What does it matter if a tyrant is left or right' - I agree, but it depends on who you are.

Left wing and right wing regimes have very different enemies. Stalin targeted the rich, the aristocrats, the land owners and investors. Those groups all benefitted under Hitler's rule.

Hitler targeted racial minorities and outsiders - groups who occasionally benefited under the rule of outsiders like Stalin, Caucescu or Milosevic.

Yeah, Stalin supported racial minorities - just ask the Kulaks...

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

Finaly, what seperates right wing tyranny from left wing tyranny are the facts of Capital and Class.

Socialism and Marxism are based around the worker and the working classes. Although Hitler appealed to the masses as well, his key support came from the upper classes. Socialism sought to destroy class. Fascism sought to entrench the classes even more deeply into society.

Socialism sought to remove capital from society. Fascism worked through capital, enriching the upper classes and using wealth to garner support. Hitler imagined a society in which capitalism and investment thrived - Stali imagined a society in which capitalism and investment did not exist.

There are other areas of difference as well. Hitler favoured:

Individualism over collectivism.
Merit over equality.
Competition over cooperation.
Capitalism over Marxism.
Nationalism over internationalism.
Exclusiveness over inclusiveness.
Common sense over theory or science.

Stalin's views were essentially the opposite in each instance.

Saigon, you are one intelligent dude and I enjoy your posts greatly. So many on forums think "party" is the end all, but you know better. I guess that's why I basically resorted to simply being a smart ass on forums like this - people banter about banal shit that doesn't mean a damned thing in the end. But again, I'm glad there's someone like you probing deeper. I was considering leaving this thing because of the stupidity of many posters, so keep posting - I'm learning. I kind of got lazy over the years with my study of history, in which I have a masters in, but I'm starting to pick it back up.

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

The idea that the left and right ideologies arc back into a circle where both extremes are totalitarian makes no sense to me. How does a political philosophy that espouses less gov't intervention end up as a totalitarian state instead of anarchy at it's extreme fringe?

Interestingly, I read that very same thing tonight in a book I'm reading about the new global economy. At this early stage of pondering this question, all I can conclude now that NO extremism is good.

 

[blackhawk]

This whole was Hitler right wing or left wing stuff is such a crock he was a sick demented maniac and the only reason people want to tag with the right or left label is for a justification to compare people of the right and left of Today to Hitler and the Nazis which is really some sick shit in my opinion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Finaly, what seperates right wing tyranny from left wing tyranny are the facts of Capital and Class.

Socialism and Marxism are based around the worker and the working classes. Although Hitler appealed to the masses as well, his key support came from the upper classes. Socialism sought to destroy class. Fascism sought to entrench the classes even more deeply into society.

Socialism sought to remove capital from society. Fascism worked through capital, enriching the upper classes and using wealth to garner support. Hitler imagined a society in which capitalism and investment thrived - Stali imagined a society in which capitalism and investment did not exist.

There are other areas of difference as well. Hitler favoured:

Individualism over collectivism.
Merit over equality.
Competition over cooperation.
Capitalism over Marxism.
Nationalism over internationalism.
Exclusiveness over inclusiveness.
Common sense over theory or science.

Stalin's views were essentially the opposite in each instance.

Saigon, you are one intelligent dude and I enjoy your posts greatly. So many on forums think "party" is the end all, but you know better. I guess that's why I basically resorted to simply being a smart ass on forums like this - people banter about banal shit that doesn't mean a damned thing in the end. But again, I'm glad there's someone like you probing deeper. I was considering leaving this thing because of the stupidity of many posters, so keep posting - I'm learning. I kind of got lazy over the years with my study of history, in which I have a masters in, but I'm starting to pick it back up.

I am so sorry, do you have the help you need to do things like tie your shoes?

Saigon was wrong about everything he concluded as a result of his facts. That is not a sign of intelligence,

 

[KnobbyWalsh]

Finaly, what seperates right wing tyranny from left wing tyranny are the facts of Capital and Class.

Socialism and Marxism are based around the worker and the working classes. Although Hitler appealed to the masses as well, his key support came from the upper classes. Socialism sought to destroy class. Fascism sought to entrench the classes even more deeply into society.

Socialism sought to remove capital from society. Fascism worked through capital, enriching the upper classes and using wealth to garner support. Hitler imagined a society in which capitalism and investment thrived - Stali imagined a society in which capitalism and investment did not exist.

There are other areas of difference as well. Hitler favoured:

Individualism over collectivism.
Merit over equality.
Competition over cooperation.
Capitalism over Marxism.
Nationalism over internationalism.
Exclusiveness over inclusiveness.
Common sense over theory or science.

Stalin's views were essentially the opposite in each instance.

Saigon, you are one intelligent dude and I enjoy your posts greatly. So many on forums think "party" is the end all, but you know better. I guess that's why I basically resorted to simply being a smart ass on forums like this - people banter about banal shit that doesn't mean a damned thing in the end. But again, I'm glad there's someone like you probing deeper. I was considering leaving this thing because of the stupidity of many posters, so keep posting - I'm learning. I kind of got lazy over the years with my study of history, in which I have a masters in, but I'm starting to pick it back up.

I am so sorry, do you have the help you need to do things like tie your shoes?

Saigon was wrong about everything he concluded as a result of his facts. That is not a sign of intelligence,

Like you'd know. Intelligence? What do you know about intelligence?

 

[Agit8r]

Fascism was much the same in Germany and Italy as it was in Chile during the 1980's

http://www.ub.edu/graap/bel_Italy_fascist.pdf

http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf

"It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history."
-- Ludwig Von Mises (founder of modern "libertarianism") from 'Liberalism'

'nuff said

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Saigon, you are one intelligent dude and I enjoy your posts greatly. So many on forums think "party" is the end all, but you know better. I guess that's why I basically resorted to simply being a smart ass on forums like this - people banter about banal shit that doesn't mean a damned thing in the end. But again, I'm glad there's someone like you probing deeper. I was considering leaving this thing because of the stupidity of many posters, so keep posting - I'm learning. I kind of got lazy over the years with my study of history, in which I have a masters in, but I'm starting to pick it back up.

I am so sorry, do you have the help you need to do things like tie your shoes?

Saigon was wrong about everything he concluded as a result of his facts. That is not a sign of intelligence,

Like you'd know. Intelligence? What do you know about intelligence?

I might not a lot about intelligence, but I know idiocy when I see it.

 

[Wiseacre]

Let's not get snarky, hm? Keep it on topic please.

 

[francoHFW]

It's amazing how ignorant the dupes are...lol

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

How we know Hitler was right wing.

The same way we know 2 + 2 = 4.

 

[francoHFW]

This is why the political spectrum is usually shown as a horseshoe, as the RW Nazism/ Fascism (where corporations are kept, and are hugely powerful DUHHH!!) extreme and the LW communism (gov't owns industry) extremes are both totalitarian and almost meet. In the void between is anarchy (no government)...

 

[francoHFW]

OP- this is a brand new RW BS theory, based on one book, "Liberal Fascism" ("Pure drivel"- The Economist), a leading HS Grad charlatan cokehead DJ, Glenn Beck, and of course then the whole Pub Propaganda Machine, for dupes only. I can see how the rest of the world could be confused and aghast.
Answer: Brainwashing of the typical Ugly American ignoramus GOP voter, would be laughed out of any History or PoliSci dept, a JOKE.

 

[Avatar4321]

Does being limited government to an extreme lead to Fascism? No

Then fascism sure as heck isn't right wing.