I Feel Sorry For Democrats

[Ray From Cleveland]

I said 1/3 of Americans don't work, and therefore, pay no taxes. What part of that do you imagine is fudged?

It would be interesting to know why 1/3 of Americans don't work. I am reasonably sure a good percentage are over the age of 65 and retired. There are other valid reasons for a person to not work due to mental or physical disability. By the same token, their are many people over 65 and who are disabled that do hold down jobs. The question I have is how many able bodied men and women don't work because they just don't want too?

That's pretty much it. There has been a boom since DumBama took office of people not looking for work. People realize the DumBama is the social program king and since he took over, we have records in food stamp usage and those not looking for work. But we also have record amounts of people filing for disability whether they can work or not:

According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, the growth in disability insurance beneficiaries has more to do with an aging population. There are other factors that could explain declining labor force participation. For example, “[d]ownward moves in labor-force participation can be attributed in part to increasing school enrollment” as more young people seek higher education, according to the Center for American Progress.

But the main factor is just “discouragement with the economy,” said Ruetschlin. “The idea that the benefits of going out and looking for a job in the market are far outweighed by the costs.”

Fewer Americans are working--or even looking for work. Why?

Holyshit.

Quoting an article from 2½ years ago while the unemployment rate was 50% higher than it is now?

So what's your explanation why we have record amounts of people not working in this country? Oh yeah, and please post your resources. Thank you.

I'll just offer my opinion. It matters not if you disagree.

The following reasons, in no particular order of significance and probably not exhaustive:

-We have a record number of folks not working every year
-The Great Recession
-Easy access to disability checks
-Easy access to SNAP
-Explosion of retirees
-Don't want to work
- More people working in the shadow economy

I guess I can agree with some if not most of those points, but the question is why? Why now since the start of the Obama administration?

 

[Faun]

First, it was Ray who said half of Americans don't pay taxes. Secondly, with 100 million not working out of a civilian noninstitutional population of 250 million is 40%...

I'm not certain what you mean by "non-institutional" Americans but as of July 4th, 2015 the US population was over 321 million (of which 140 mil work). So how many are "institutional?"

Ray's original post stated: "The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes."

I understood that to mean half of all wage earners - those paying income taxes - (which is the case), not all Americans. Only about 70 million tax filers (about 21% of the total pop) pay any federal personal income tax, meaning nearly 50% of all tax filers (and 80% of all Americans) pay nothing.

...Thirdly, while the top 50% of income workers pay 97%, they don't pay all of the taxes...

But they do pay virtually all of the federal personal income tax (and that is the topic at hand).

...Fourthly, who should pay the bulk of the taxes if not the highest wage earners? Fifthly, the answer to your question is about 96%.

As has been repeatedly illustrated, the highest wage earners do carry the bulk of the federal personal income tax load and while we could argue the justice of increasing the burden on the top 25% to 96% of the load - an 11.2% increase - it would neither completely close the deficit nor pay down our growing debt (the interest on which will soon hamstring funding for other gov't spending).

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

I'm sure you are. You're not part of the top 50%. Are you okay with government buying you a new swimming pool too?????

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Sure I do. When the government takes money from other people than yourself, you have absolutely no problem with that at all. Take money from you, and you would be kicking and screaming all over this forum.

Well now you've not only shown me you have no fucking clue what you're talking about but you also demonstrate you are completely wrong as well.

 

[Wildman]

demoscum are only .002% above radical muslimes

i despise every last fucking one of them.

 

[Faun]

First, it was Ray who said half of Americans don't pay taxes. Secondly, with 100 million not working out of a civilian noninstitutional population of 250 million is 40%...

I'm not certain what you mean by "non-institutional" Americans but as of July 4th, 2015 the US population was over 321 million (of which 140 mil work). So how many are "institutional?"

Ray's original post stated: "The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes."

I understood that to mean half of all wage earners - those paying income taxes - (which is the case), not all Americans. Only about 70 million tax filers (about 21% of the total pop) pay any federal personal income tax, meaning nearly 50% of all tax filers (and 80% of all Americans) pay nothing.

...Thirdly, while the top 50% of income workers pay 97%, they don't pay all of the taxes...

But they do pay virtually all of the federal personal income tax (and that is the topic at hand).

...Fourthly, who should pay the bulk of the taxes if not the highest wage earners? Fifthly, the answer to your question is about 96%.

As has been repeatedly illustrated, the highest wage earners do carry the bulk of the federal personal income tax load and while we could argue the justice of increasing the burden on the top 25% to 96% of the load - an 11.2% increase - it would neither completely close the deficit nor pay down our growing debt (the interest on which will soon hamstring funding for other gov't spending).

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

Whoa! It wasn't me who tried to expand Ray's conversation from those who file tax returns to all "non-institutional" Americans but rather YOU and the point remains that while 25% of America's earners carry 86% of the federal personal income tax load, 48% pay nothing.

It was you who said

First, it was Ray who said half of Americans don't pay taxes. Secondly, with 100 million not working out of a civilian noninstitutional population of 250 million is 40%...

I'm not certain what you mean by "non-institutional" Americans but as of July 4th, 2015 the US population was over 321 million (of which 140 mil work). So how many are "institutional?"

Ray's original post stated: "The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes."

I understood that to mean half of all wage earners - those paying income taxes - (which is the case), not all Americans. Only about 70 million tax filers (about 21% of the total pop) pay any federal personal income tax, meaning nearly 50% of all tax filers (and 80% of all Americans) pay nothing.

...Thirdly, while the top 50% of income workers pay 97%, they don't pay all of the taxes...

But they do pay virtually all of the federal personal income tax (and that is the topic at hand).

...Fourthly, who should pay the bulk of the taxes if not the highest wage earners? Fifthly, the answer to your question is about 96%.

As has been repeatedly illustrated, the highest wage earners do carry the bulk of the federal personal income tax load and while we could argue the justice of increasing the burden on the top 25% to 96% of the load - an 11.2% increase - it would neither completely close the deficit nor pay down our growing debt (the interest on which will soon hamstring funding for other gov't spending).

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

Whoa! It wasn't me who tried to expand Ray's conversation from those who file tax returns to all "non-institutional" Americans but rather YOU and the point remains that while 25% of America's earners carry 86% of the federal personal income tax load, 48% pay nothing.

Again .... Ray's initial post on the subject ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

As you can see ... again ... I did not expand his post to include anyone he himself didn't already include. And in fact, I narrowed down his sample of "half our country" to just those who are employable.

As far the claim that 48% of working folks pay no federal income tax -- prove it.

The idiot actually thinks someone pays attention to what he says.

Yet here you are, posting to me in this thread.

Thanks, you write my material for me.

 

[Faun]

I believe there were similar results before Republicans expanded their leadership in Congress and took leadership of the Senate as well.

Dems here are increasingly whistling past the graveyard.

The electoral results since 2010 - a direct reflection of Obama's "leadership" - have been catastrophic for the Dems. They have lost seats in State and Federal legislatures as well as governorships. Both 2014 and 2015 elections were bloodbaths and virtually every Dem that didn't manage to distance himself/herself from the Prez and his policies lost.

If the Repubs nominate an electable candidate the trend should continue in 2016 as it will be difficult to stop or turn a Dem careening ship on a dime (see: Titanic).

Unfortunately Repubs haven't exactly exhibited "leadership" in the House and Senate despite their majorities.

True, the last couple of mid-terms were indeed harsh for Democrats.

But when was the last time a Republican got more votes than the Democrat in the presidential election?

 

[Faun]

It would be interesting to know why 1/3 of Americans don't work. I am reasonably sure a good percentage are over the age of 65 and retired. There are other valid reasons for a person to not work due to mental or physical disability. By the same token, their are many people over 65 and who are disabled that do hold down jobs. The question I have is how many able bodied men and women don't work because they just don't want too?

That's pretty much it. There has been a boom since DumBama took office of people not looking for work. People realize the DumBama is the social program king and since he took over, we have records in food stamp usage and those not looking for work. But we also have record amounts of people filing for disability whether they can work or not:

According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, the growth in disability insurance beneficiaries has more to do with an aging population. There are other factors that could explain declining labor force participation. For example, “[d]ownward moves in labor-force participation can be attributed in part to increasing school enrollment” as more young people seek higher education, according to the Center for American Progress.

But the main factor is just “discouragement with the economy,” said Ruetschlin. “The idea that the benefits of going out and looking for a job in the market are far outweighed by the costs.”

Fewer Americans are working--or even looking for work. Why?

Holyshit.

Quoting an article from 2½ years ago while the unemployment rate was 50% higher than it is now?

So what's your explanation why we have record amounts of people not working in this country? Oh yeah, and please post your resources. Thank you.

I'll just offer my opinion. It matters not if you disagree.

The following reasons, in no particular order of significance and probably not exhaustive:

-We have a record number of folks not working every year
-The Great Recession
-Easy access to disability checks
-Easy access to SNAP
-Explosion of retirees
-Don't want to work
- More people working in the shadow economy

I guess I can agree with some if not most of those points, but the question is why? Why now since the start of the Obama administration?

First, prove the trend of any of those began under Obama's leadership..... since that is your claim.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's pretty much it. There has been a boom since DumBama took office of people not looking for work. People realize the DumBama is the social program king and since he took over, we have records in food stamp usage and those not looking for work. But we also have record amounts of people filing for disability whether they can work or not:

According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, the growth in disability insurance beneficiaries has more to do with an aging population. There are other factors that could explain declining labor force participation. For example, “[d]ownward moves in labor-force participation can be attributed in part to increasing school enrollment” as more young people seek higher education, according to the Center for American Progress.

But the main factor is just “discouragement with the economy,” said Ruetschlin. “The idea that the benefits of going out and looking for a job in the market are far outweighed by the costs.”

Fewer Americans are working--or even looking for work. Why?

Holyshit.

Quoting an article from 2½ years ago while the unemployment rate was 50% higher than it is now?

So what's your explanation why we have record amounts of people not working in this country? Oh yeah, and please post your resources. Thank you.

I'll just offer my opinion. It matters not if you disagree.

The following reasons, in no particular order of significance and probably not exhaustive:

-We have a record number of folks not working every year
-The Great Recession
-Easy access to disability checks
-Easy access to SNAP
-Explosion of retirees
-Don't want to work
- More people working in the shadow economy

I guess I can agree with some if not most of those points, but the question is why? Why now since the start of the Obama administration?

First, prove the trend of any of those began under Obama's leadership..... since that is your claim.

Okay, here you go:

 

[Faun]

First, it was Ray who said half of Americans don't pay taxes. Secondly, with 100 million not working out of a civilian noninstitutional population of 250 million is 40%...

I'm not certain what you mean by "non-institutional" Americans but as of July 4th, 2015 the US population was over 321 million (of which 140 mil work). So how many are "institutional?"

Ray's original post stated: "The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes."

I understood that to mean half of all wage earners - those paying income taxes - (which is the case), not all Americans. Only about 70 million tax filers (about 21% of the total pop) pay any federal personal income tax, meaning nearly 50% of all tax filers (and 80% of all Americans) pay nothing.

...Thirdly, while the top 50% of income workers pay 97%, they don't pay all of the taxes...

But they do pay virtually all of the federal personal income tax (and that is the topic at hand).

...Fourthly, who should pay the bulk of the taxes if not the highest wage earners? Fifthly, the answer to your question is about 96%.

As has been repeatedly illustrated, the highest wage earners do carry the bulk of the federal personal income tax load and while we could argue the justice of increasing the burden on the top 25% to 96% of the load - an 11.2% increase - it would neither completely close the deficit nor pay down our growing debt (the interest on which will soon hamstring funding for other gov't spending).

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

Whoa! It wasn't me who tried to expand Ray's conversation from those who file tax returns to all "non-institutional" Americans but rather YOU and the point remains that while 25% of America's earners carry 86% of the federal personal income tax load, 48% pay nothing.

It was you who said

First, it was Ray who said half of Americans don't pay taxes. Secondly, with 100 million not working out of a civilian noninstitutional population of 250 million is 40%...

I'm not certain what you mean by "non-institutional" Americans but as of July 4th, 2015 the US population was over 321 million (of which 140 mil work). So how many are "institutional?"

Ray's original post stated: "The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes."

I understood that to mean half of all wage earners - those paying income taxes - (which is the case), not all Americans. Only about 70 million tax filers (about 21% of the total pop) pay any federal personal income tax, meaning nearly 50% of all tax filers (and 80% of all Americans) pay nothing.

...Thirdly, while the top 50% of income workers pay 97%, they don't pay all of the taxes...

But they do pay virtually all of the federal personal income tax (and that is the topic at hand).

...Fourthly, who should pay the bulk of the taxes if not the highest wage earners? Fifthly, the answer to your question is about 96%.

As has been repeatedly illustrated, the highest wage earners do carry the bulk of the federal personal income tax load and while we could argue the justice of increasing the burden on the top 25% to 96% of the load - an 11.2% increase - it would neither completely close the deficit nor pay down our growing debt (the interest on which will soon hamstring funding for other gov't spending).

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

Whoa! It wasn't me who tried to expand Ray's conversation from those who file tax returns to all "non-institutional" Americans but rather YOU and the point remains that while 25% of America's earners carry 86% of the federal personal income tax load, 48% pay nothing.

Again .... Ray's initial post on the subject ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

As you can see ... again ... I did not expand his post to include anyone he himself didn't already include. And in fact, I narrowed down his sample of "half our country" to just those who are employable.

As far the claim that 48% of working folks pay no federal income tax -- prove it.

Truncating Ray's statement ("The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes") not only changed its meaning to suit your nefarious purpose, it's as disingenuous as it is dishonest.

I had a higher opinion of you and have defended you in the past.

As to your demand for proof of truth ... you don't know how to use GOOGLE?
Those loony lib HACKs at CNBC authored the following based on a study by the "non-partisan Tax Policy Center":

"The top-earning 1 percent of Americans will pay nearly half of the federal income taxes for 2014, the largest share in at least three years, according to a study.

According to a projection from the non-partisan Tax Policy Center, the top 1 percent of Americans will pay 45.7 percent of the individual income taxes in 2014—up from 43 percent in 2013 and 40 percent in 2012 (the oldest period available).

The bottom 80 percent of Americans are expected to pay 15 percent of all federal income taxes in 2014, according to the study. The bottom 60 percent are expected to pay less than 2 percent of federal income taxes."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAEahUKEwj5sZ-stpbJAhUCQD4KHUATAnc&url=http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/13/top-1-pay-nearly-half-of-federal-income-taxes.html&usg=AFQjCNFRfY5H7lgBzlfWCQ78qUviILkkvg

First & foremost .... for the official record .... I really don't give a flying fuck what any conservative thinks of me.

That out of the way ....

Again, he said ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

I took that to mean what he said ... that "the problem is half of our country is not paying."

As far as the link you kindly provided ... nothing in there says 48% of income earners pay no federal income tax.

Wanna try for best out of 3?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm not certain what you mean by "non-institutional" Americans but as of July 4th, 2015 the US population was over 321 million (of which 140 mil work). So how many are "institutional?"

Ray's original post stated: "The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes."

I understood that to mean half of all wage earners - those paying income taxes - (which is the case), not all Americans. Only about 70 million tax filers (about 21% of the total pop) pay any federal personal income tax, meaning nearly 50% of all tax filers (and 80% of all Americans) pay nothing.

But they do pay virtually all of the federal personal income tax (and that is the topic at hand).

As has been repeatedly illustrated, the highest wage earners do carry the bulk of the federal personal income tax load and while we could argue the justice of increasing the burden on the top 25% to 96% of the load - an 11.2% increase - it would neither completely close the deficit nor pay down our growing debt (the interest on which will soon hamstring funding for other gov't spending).

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

I'm sure you are. You're not part of the top 50%. Are you okay with government buying you a new swimming pool too?????

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Sure I do. When the government takes money from other people than yourself, you have absolutely no problem with that at all. Take money from you, and you would be kicking and screaming all over this forum.

Well now you've not only shown me you have no fucking clue what you're talking about but you also demonstrate you are completely wrong as well.

Oh, I see, then you have no problem with giving more of your money to the federal government? You know, the IRS accepts personal checks and credit cards. You can contribute as much as you like.

 

[Faun]

Holyshit.

Quoting an article from 2½ years ago while the unemployment rate was 50% higher than it is now?

So what's your explanation why we have record amounts of people not working in this country? Oh yeah, and please post your resources. Thank you.

I'll just offer my opinion. It matters not if you disagree.

The following reasons, in no particular order of significance and probably not exhaustive:

-We have a record number of folks not working every year
-The Great Recession
-Easy access to disability checks
-Easy access to SNAP
-Explosion of retirees
-Don't want to work
- More people working in the shadow economy

I guess I can agree with some if not most of those points, but the question is why? Why now since the start of the Obama administration?

First, prove the trend of any of those began under Obama's leadership..... since that is your claim.

Okay, here you go:


View attachment 54952

So? What do you think that means in terms of the health of the job market?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm not certain what you mean by "non-institutional" Americans but as of July 4th, 2015 the US population was over 321 million (of which 140 mil work). So how many are "institutional?"

Ray's original post stated: "The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes."

I understood that to mean half of all wage earners - those paying income taxes - (which is the case), not all Americans. Only about 70 million tax filers (about 21% of the total pop) pay any federal personal income tax, meaning nearly 50% of all tax filers (and 80% of all Americans) pay nothing.

But they do pay virtually all of the federal personal income tax (and that is the topic at hand).

As has been repeatedly illustrated, the highest wage earners do carry the bulk of the federal personal income tax load and while we could argue the justice of increasing the burden on the top 25% to 96% of the load - an 11.2% increase - it would neither completely close the deficit nor pay down our growing debt (the interest on which will soon hamstring funding for other gov't spending).

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

Whoa! It wasn't me who tried to expand Ray's conversation from those who file tax returns to all "non-institutional" Americans but rather YOU and the point remains that while 25% of America's earners carry 86% of the federal personal income tax load, 48% pay nothing.

It was you who said

I'm not certain what you mean by "non-institutional" Americans but as of July 4th, 2015 the US population was over 321 million (of which 140 mil work). So how many are "institutional?"

Ray's original post stated: "The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes."

I understood that to mean half of all wage earners - those paying income taxes - (which is the case), not all Americans. Only about 70 million tax filers (about 21% of the total pop) pay any federal personal income tax, meaning nearly 50% of all tax filers (and 80% of all Americans) pay nothing.

But they do pay virtually all of the federal personal income tax (and that is the topic at hand).

As has been repeatedly illustrated, the highest wage earners do carry the bulk of the federal personal income tax load and while we could argue the justice of increasing the burden on the top 25% to 96% of the load - an 11.2% increase - it would neither completely close the deficit nor pay down our growing debt (the interest on which will soon hamstring funding for other gov't spending).

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

Whoa! It wasn't me who tried to expand Ray's conversation from those who file tax returns to all "non-institutional" Americans but rather YOU and the point remains that while 25% of America's earners carry 86% of the federal personal income tax load, 48% pay nothing.

Again .... Ray's initial post on the subject ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

As you can see ... again ... I did not expand his post to include anyone he himself didn't already include. And in fact, I narrowed down his sample of "half our country" to just those who are employable.

As far the claim that 48% of working folks pay no federal income tax -- prove it.

Truncating Ray's statement ("The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes") not only changed its meaning to suit your nefarious purpose, it's as disingenuous as it is dishonest.

I had a higher opinion of you and have defended you in the past.

As to your demand for proof of truth ... you don't know how to use GOOGLE?
Those loony lib HACKs at CNBC authored the following based on a study by the "non-partisan Tax Policy Center":

"The top-earning 1 percent of Americans will pay nearly half of the federal income taxes for 2014, the largest share in at least three years, according to a study.

According to a projection from the non-partisan Tax Policy Center, the top 1 percent of Americans will pay 45.7 percent of the individual income taxes in 2014—up from 43 percent in 2013 and 40 percent in 2012 (the oldest period available).

The bottom 80 percent of Americans are expected to pay 15 percent of all federal income taxes in 2014, according to the study. The bottom 60 percent are expected to pay less than 2 percent of federal income taxes."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAEahUKEwj5sZ-stpbJAhUCQD4KHUATAnc&url=http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/13/top-1-pay-nearly-half-of-federal-income-taxes.html&usg=AFQjCNFRfY5H7lgBzlfWCQ78qUviILkkvg

First & foremost .... for the official record .... I really don't give a flying fuck what any conservative thinks of me.

That out of the way ....

Again, he said ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

I took that to mean what he said ... that "the problem is half of our country is not paying."

As far as the link you kindly provided ... nothing in there says 48% of income earners pay no federal income tax.

Wanna try for best out of 3?

They updated that figure to more like the 45% range. Still, that's nearly half of the wage earners in this country and even more when you add in the millions of people not working.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So what's your explanation why we have record amounts of people not working in this country? Oh yeah, and please post your resources. Thank you.

I'll just offer my opinion. It matters not if you disagree.

The following reasons, in no particular order of significance and probably not exhaustive:

-We have a record number of folks not working every year
-The Great Recession
-Easy access to disability checks
-Easy access to SNAP
-Explosion of retirees
-Don't want to work
- More people working in the shadow economy

I guess I can agree with some if not most of those points, but the question is why? Why now since the start of the Obama administration?

First, prove the trend of any of those began under Obama's leadership..... since that is your claim.

Okay, here you go:


View attachment 54952

So? What do you think that means in terms of the health of the job market?

I think it's rather obvious. You have an entitlement President with more people that feel entitled.

There are all kinds of jobs out there that employers can't fill. People on their SNAP's cards and Obama phones just don't want to work. Others won't give up smoking pot to secure a job.

In my industry alone, we will be short 45,000 workers by the end of this year because employers can't find people to work. My father is a retired bricklayer. They got so desperate for new bricklayers that the union sent him a letter asking their retirees to find drug-free people interested in joining the trade. They found interested people, but none that could pass a drug test. Yes, it's hard work, but my father made a pretty good living off of it.

 

[Faun]

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

I'm sure you are. You're not part of the top 50%. Are you okay with government buying you a new swimming pool too?????

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Sure I do. When the government takes money from other people than yourself, you have absolutely no problem with that at all. Take money from you, and you would be kicking and screaming all over this forum.

Well now you've not only shown me you have no fucking clue what you're talking about but you also demonstrate you are completely wrong as well.

Oh, I see, then you have no problem with giving more of your money to the federal government? You know, the IRS accepts personal checks and credit cards. You can contribute as much as you like.

I have no problem paying more if the my tax bracket goes up and everyone in it pays more.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm sure you are. You're not part of the top 50%. Are you okay with government buying you a new swimming pool too?????

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Sure I do. When the government takes money from other people than yourself, you have absolutely no problem with that at all. Take money from you, and you would be kicking and screaming all over this forum.

Well now you've not only shown me you have no fucking clue what you're talking about but you also demonstrate you are completely wrong as well.

Oh, I see, then you have no problem with giving more of your money to the federal government? You know, the IRS accepts personal checks and credit cards. You can contribute as much as you like.

I have no problem paying more if the my tax bracket goes up and everyone in it pays more.

That may be, but the Democrats are not talking about your tax bracket, they are talking about the people that pay nearly all of the federal income tax. As I stated, I wouldn't mind paying more either. I think we need a federal consumption tax....... at least until we get our debt under control.

 

[Faun]

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

Whoa! It wasn't me who tried to expand Ray's conversation from those who file tax returns to all "non-institutional" Americans but rather YOU and the point remains that while 25% of America's earners carry 86% of the federal personal income tax load, 48% pay nothing.

It was you who said

The civilian non-institutional population is those who are neither institutionalized nor military. The figure comes from the BLS which counts 250 million civilian non-institutional people in the U.S. aged 16 and up. Heaven knows why you want to count babies and inmates among those not working; in order to make your point?

As far as that 96% figure, what I meant was that I'm ok with the top 50% paying 96% of the taxes.

Whoa! It wasn't me who tried to expand Ray's conversation from those who file tax returns to all "non-institutional" Americans but rather YOU and the point remains that while 25% of America's earners carry 86% of the federal personal income tax load, 48% pay nothing.

Again .... Ray's initial post on the subject ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

As you can see ... again ... I did not expand his post to include anyone he himself didn't already include. And in fact, I narrowed down his sample of "half our country" to just those who are employable.

As far the claim that 48% of working folks pay no federal income tax -- prove it.

Truncating Ray's statement ("The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes") not only changed its meaning to suit your nefarious purpose, it's as disingenuous as it is dishonest.

I had a higher opinion of you and have defended you in the past.

As to your demand for proof of truth ... you don't know how to use GOOGLE?
Those loony lib HACKs at CNBC authored the following based on a study by the "non-partisan Tax Policy Center":

"The top-earning 1 percent of Americans will pay nearly half of the federal income taxes for 2014, the largest share in at least three years, according to a study.

According to a projection from the non-partisan Tax Policy Center, the top 1 percent of Americans will pay 45.7 percent of the individual income taxes in 2014—up from 43 percent in 2013 and 40 percent in 2012 (the oldest period available).

The bottom 80 percent of Americans are expected to pay 15 percent of all federal income taxes in 2014, according to the study. The bottom 60 percent are expected to pay less than 2 percent of federal income taxes."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAEahUKEwj5sZ-stpbJAhUCQD4KHUATAnc&url=http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/13/top-1-pay-nearly-half-of-federal-income-taxes.html&usg=AFQjCNFRfY5H7lgBzlfWCQ78qUviILkkvg

First & foremost .... for the official record .... I really don't give a flying fuck what any conservative thinks of me.

That out of the way ....

Again, he said ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

I took that to mean what he said ... that "the problem is half of our country is not paying."

As far as the link you kindly provided ... nothing in there says 48% of income earners pay no federal income tax.

Wanna try for best out of 3?

They updated that figure to more like the 45% range. Still, that's nearly half of the wage earners in this country and even more when you add in the millions of people not working.

Again .... prove it. That's not what I'm seeing. I'm seeing it's more like 47% of households pay no federal income tax.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Whoa! It wasn't me who tried to expand Ray's conversation from those who file tax returns to all "non-institutional" Americans but rather YOU and the point remains that while 25% of America's earners carry 86% of the federal personal income tax load, 48% pay nothing.

It was you who said

Whoa! It wasn't me who tried to expand Ray's conversation from those who file tax returns to all "non-institutional" Americans but rather YOU and the point remains that while 25% of America's earners carry 86% of the federal personal income tax load, 48% pay nothing.

Again .... Ray's initial post on the subject ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

As you can see ... again ... I did not expand his post to include anyone he himself didn't already include. And in fact, I narrowed down his sample of "half our country" to just those who are employable.

As far the claim that 48% of working folks pay no federal income tax -- prove it.

Truncating Ray's statement ("The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes") not only changed its meaning to suit your nefarious purpose, it's as disingenuous as it is dishonest.

I had a higher opinion of you and have defended you in the past.

As to your demand for proof of truth ... you don't know how to use GOOGLE?
Those loony lib HACKs at CNBC authored the following based on a study by the "non-partisan Tax Policy Center":

"The top-earning 1 percent of Americans will pay nearly half of the federal income taxes for 2014, the largest share in at least three years, according to a study.

According to a projection from the non-partisan Tax Policy Center, the top 1 percent of Americans will pay 45.7 percent of the individual income taxes in 2014—up from 43 percent in 2013 and 40 percent in 2012 (the oldest period available).

The bottom 80 percent of Americans are expected to pay 15 percent of all federal income taxes in 2014, according to the study. The bottom 60 percent are expected to pay less than 2 percent of federal income taxes."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAEahUKEwj5sZ-stpbJAhUCQD4KHUATAnc&url=http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/13/top-1-pay-nearly-half-of-federal-income-taxes.html&usg=AFQjCNFRfY5H7lgBzlfWCQ78qUviILkkvg

First & foremost .... for the official record .... I really don't give a flying fuck what any conservative thinks of me.

That out of the way ....

Again, he said ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

I took that to mean what he said ... that "the problem is half of our country is not paying."

As far as the link you kindly provided ... nothing in there says 48% of income earners pay no federal income tax.

Wanna try for best out of 3?

They updated that figure to more like the 45% range. Still, that's nearly half of the wage earners in this country and even more when you add in the millions of people not working.

Again .... prove it. That's not what I'm seeing. I'm seeing it more like 47% of households pay no federal income tax.

What would you like me to prove; be specific.

 

[Faun]

I'll just offer my opinion. It matters not if you disagree.

The following reasons, in no particular order of significance and probably not exhaustive:

-We have a record number of folks not working every year
-The Great Recession
-Easy access to disability checks
-Easy access to SNAP
-Explosion of retirees
-Don't want to work
- More people working in the shadow economy

I guess I can agree with some if not most of those points, but the question is why? Why now since the start of the Obama administration?

First, prove the trend of any of those began under Obama's leadership..... since that is your claim.

Okay, here you go:


View attachment 54952

So? What do you think that means in terms of the health of the job market?

I think it's rather obvious. You have an entitlement President with more people that feel entitled.

There are all kinds of jobs out there that employers can't fill. People on their SNAP's cards and Obama phones just don't want to work. Others won't give up smoking pot to secure a job.

In my industry alone, we will be short 45,000 workers by the end of this year because employers can't find people to work. My father is a retired bricklayer. They got so desperate for new bricklayers that the union sent him a letter asking their retirees to find drug-free people interested in joining the trade. They found interested people, but none that could pass a drug test. Yes, it's hard work, but my father made a pretty good living off of it.

Again, since you didn't answer .... what does the labor force participation rate have to do with the health of the job market? Your anecdotal explanations don't cover it.

I'll even help you out this time ... keep in mind, the labor force participation rate was lower in the 1950's, meanwhile, the job market was quite healthy. Same for the 1960's.

The labor force participation rate is influenced heavily by demographics, not the health of the job market.

And again, I challenged you to cite any one of those reasons as being one which began under Obama. By your inability to find even one, I can only conclude you agree that they all started under Bush, though the trends certainly did continue under Obama.

 

[Faun]

It was you who said
Again .... Ray's initial post on the subject ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

As you can see ... again ... I did not expand his post to include anyone he himself didn't already include. And in fact, I narrowed down his sample of "half our country" to just those who are employable.

As far the claim that 48% of working folks pay no federal income tax -- prove it.

Truncating Ray's statement ("The problem is half of our country is not paying. In fact, the top 10% of wage earners in this country pay close to 70% of all collected income taxes") not only changed its meaning to suit your nefarious purpose, it's as disingenuous as it is dishonest.

I had a higher opinion of you and have defended you in the past.

As to your demand for proof of truth ... you don't know how to use GOOGLE?
Those loony lib HACKs at CNBC authored the following based on a study by the "non-partisan Tax Policy Center":

"The top-earning 1 percent of Americans will pay nearly half of the federal income taxes for 2014, the largest share in at least three years, according to a study.

According to a projection from the non-partisan Tax Policy Center, the top 1 percent of Americans will pay 45.7 percent of the individual income taxes in 2014—up from 43 percent in 2013 and 40 percent in 2012 (the oldest period available).

The bottom 80 percent of Americans are expected to pay 15 percent of all federal income taxes in 2014, according to the study. The bottom 60 percent are expected to pay less than 2 percent of federal income taxes."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAEahUKEwj5sZ-stpbJAhUCQD4KHUATAnc&url=http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/13/top-1-pay-nearly-half-of-federal-income-taxes.html&usg=AFQjCNFRfY5H7lgBzlfWCQ78qUviILkkvg

First & foremost .... for the official record .... I really don't give a flying fuck what any conservative thinks of me.

That out of the way ....

Again, he said ...

"The problem is half of our country is not paying."​

I took that to mean what he said ... that "the problem is half of our country is not paying."

As far as the link you kindly provided ... nothing in there says 48% of income earners pay no federal income tax.

Wanna try for best out of 3?

They updated that figure to more like the 45% range. Still, that's nearly half of the wage earners in this country and even more when you add in the millions of people not working.

Again .... prove it. That's not what I'm seeing. I'm seeing it more like 47% of households pay no federal income tax.

What would you like me to prove; be specific.

The claim that [roughly] half of wage earners pay no federal income tax.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I guess I can agree with some if not most of those points, but the question is why? Why now since the start of the Obama administration?

First, prove the trend of any of those began under Obama's leadership..... since that is your claim.

Okay, here you go:


View attachment 54952

So? What do you think that means in terms of the health of the job market?

I think it's rather obvious. You have an entitlement President with more people that feel entitled.

There are all kinds of jobs out there that employers can't fill. People on their SNAP's cards and Obama phones just don't want to work. Others won't give up smoking pot to secure a job.

In my industry alone, we will be short 45,000 workers by the end of this year because employers can't find people to work. My father is a retired bricklayer. They got so desperate for new bricklayers that the union sent him a letter asking their retirees to find drug-free people interested in joining the trade. They found interested people, but none that could pass a drug test. Yes, it's hard work, but my father made a pretty good living off of it.

Again, since you didn't answer .... what does the labor force participation rate have to do with the health of the job market? Your anecdotal explanations don't cover it.

I'll even help you out this time ... keep in mind, the labor force participation rate was lower in the 1950's, meanwhile, the job market was quite healthy. Same for the 1960's.

The labor force participation rate is influenced heavily by demographics, not the health of the job market.

And again, I challenged you to cite any one of those reasons as being one which began under Obama. By your inability to find even one, I can only conclude you agree that they all started under Bush, though the trends certainly did continue under Obama.

Not at that pace it didn't. Look at the chart again. Under Bush, the participation rate dropped during the recession. It began to increase a few years before the housing burst which led to the next recession. During the housing bubble, the trend of working Americans increased.

There is no increase or flat line under Obama. No matter what the circumstance, it's a descending line all the way down to record lows.

 

[Faun]

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Sure I do. When the government takes money from other people than yourself, you have absolutely no problem with that at all. Take money from you, and you would be kicking and screaming all over this forum.

Well now you've not only shown me you have no fucking clue what you're talking about but you also demonstrate you are completely wrong as well.

Oh, I see, then you have no problem with giving more of your money to the federal government? You know, the IRS accepts personal checks and credit cards. You can contribute as much as you like.

I have no problem paying more if the my tax bracket goes up and everyone in it pays more.

That may be, but the Democrats are not talking about your tax bracket, they are talking about the people that pay nearly all of the federal income tax. As I stated, I wouldn't mind paying more either. I think we need a federal consumption tax....... at least until we get our debt under control.

It a) bothers me not if folks in higher brackets than my own pay more just as it wouldn't bother me if my own bracket was increased; and b) I would imagine for many folks in those brackets, it also would bother them for the same reason I wouldn't be bothered about increases to my own taxes.

But the more salient point is ..... how the fuck does that indicate to you what I earn??