I want an utopia!

[PaintMyHouse]

A bad start. Tell us, if I drop a family of four on an island in the middle of the ocean all alone, what "rights" do they have? Oh right, none.

Helicopters and reality TV did not exist before the twentieth century. You are going to have to go back further in time if we are going to debate which came first.... the individual and family, or the government.

It doesn't matter what came first because we know where rights came from, the minds of men.

And answer the question: If I drop a family of four on an island in the middle of the ocean all alone, what "rights" do they have?

Name his "rights"?

This must be your way of acknowledging a losing position in a debate.

The image is perfect....chuckle

The losing is not mine. If rights don't come from men, then he should still have rights all alone on his island. So, name them?

You have to get past the dogma, and actually think.

Evolution is not dogma. Well, not yet any way. The man had to get onto the island in the first place. How?

It doesn't matter how he got there. Maybe he was cast adrift like Moses? What matters is, once there, if his rights do not come from men then what rights does he have?

 

[CynthiaZ]

A utopia would be the worst freaking nightmare that could plague mankind. If we didn't have opposition and discord where would our motivation and reason to exist come from? I for one do not wish to live in a "Brave New World"

Those who have tried to build utopia have been nothing but a bane on humankind. For example Hitler was trying to build a utopia and so was Lenin on the other side of the political spectrum.

 

[Foxfyre]

But who gets to design Utopia? Would we all design something essentially the same?

From the 1984 film "Starman"

 

[Neotrotsky]

i like when he went through the traffic light in the movie

 

[Neotrotsky]

i did in the post
you are just blind
to see

do you need another?
he has right to keep the fruit of his labor

He does? Some creature isn't going to come along in the night and eat his garden? Are they going to stop and say I can't eat this because it belongs to him? Are they going to stay out of the food in his shack because he picked it? If he cuts himself and it gets infected and he dies, should that not have happened because he has a Right to Life?

Think, don't repeat dogma. What rights does a man all alone on an island have?

I just named two

another?
he has a right to life

 

[PaintMyHouse]

just name two

another
he has a right to life

He does? How is this Right to Life enforced? If he gets sick and dies, does his family sue Nature? God? You're not thinking, you're just repeating dogma. What rights does a man on an island all alone have? Can he go to court because the animals eat his food, shit in his shack, gave him a poisonous bite that kills him?

 

[Neotrotsky]

one man on island would not need a court or the need to sue

now you are just being silly

you are trying, rather poorly, to mix natural law and positive law

perhaps a lack of understanding on your part or political
bias blinds you to see that their is more than positive laws

 

[PaintMyHouse]

one man on island would not need a court or the need to sue

now you are just being silly

you are trying, rather poorly, to mix natural law and positive law

perhaps a lack of understanding on your part or political
bias blinds you to see that their is more than positive laws

Natural law doesn't exist, that's the point. The man alone on an island has no rights, not a one. He's alive, that's all. Rights are what you can get enforced and he can't get anything enforced because there are no other people to establish his rights or enforce them. Nature doesn't give a fuck whether he lives or dies. If he has natural rights then they would be in play even if you were all alone on an island but they aren't in play because they don't exist.

 

[percysunshine]

Helicopters and reality TV did not exist before the twentieth century. You are going to have to go back further in time if we are going to debate which came first.... the individual and family, or the government.

It doesn't matter what came first because we know where rights came from, the minds of men.

And answer the question: If I drop a family of four on an island in the middle of the ocean all alone, what "rights" do they have?

Name his "rights"?

This must be your way of acknowledging a losing position in a debate.

The image is perfect....chuckle

The losing is not mine. If rights don't come from men, then he should still have rights all alone on his island. So, name them?

You have to get past the dogma, and actually think.

Evolution is not dogma. Well, not yet any way. The man had to get onto the island in the first place. How?

It doesn't matter how he got there. Maybe he was cast adrift like Moses? What matters is, once there, if his rights do not come from men then what rights does he have?

I would propose that it does matter how he got there. Otherwise, we are arguing about artificially contrived circumstances. Not that that should matter in a thread about utopia. Making stuff up for the comfort and convenience of a warm and fuzzy world view is understandable.

So, on with it..

In this island world we have a man alone, maybe a few coconuts, a fish or two he can eat, maybe .. what else? He is alone on an island. Where is this story going? Does FEMA rescue him or something?

 

[Neotrotsky]

A utopia would be the worst freaking nightmare that could plague mankind. If we didn't have opposition and discord where would our motivation and reason to exist come from? I for one do not wish to live in a "Brave New World"

Those who have tried to build utopia have been nothing but a bane on humankind. For example Hitler was trying to build a utopia and so was Lenin on the other side of the political spectrum.

so are Democrats

funny how that works

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It doesn't matter what came first because we know where rights came from, the minds of men.

And answer the question: If I drop a family of four on an island in the middle of the ocean all alone, what "rights" do they have?

Name his "rights"?

This must be your way of acknowledging a losing position in a debate.

The image is perfect....chuckle

The losing is not mine. If rights don't come from men, then he should still have rights all alone on his island. So, name them?

You have to get past the dogma, and actually think.

Evolution is not dogma. Well, not yet any way. The man had to get onto the island in the first place. How?

It doesn't matter how he got there. Maybe he was cast adrift like Moses? What matters is, once there, if his rights do not come from men then what rights does he have?

I would propose that it does matter how he got there. Otherwise, we are arguing about artificially contrived circumstances. Not that that should matter in a thread about utopia. Making stuff up for the comfort and convenience of a warm and fuzzy world view is understandable.

So, on with it..

In this island world we have a man alone, maybe a few coconuts, a fish or two he can eat, maybe .. what else? He is alone on an island. Where is this story going? Does FEMA rescue him or something?

Okay, he got there the way Tom Hanks did in the movie. He's alive, but all alone. So, what are his rights?

 

[Neotrotsky]

one man on island would not need a court or the need to sue

now you are just being silly

you are trying, rather poorly, to mix natural law and positive law

perhaps a lack of understanding on your part or political
bias blinds you to see that their is more than positive laws

Natural law doesn't exist, that's the point. The man alone on an island has no rights, not a one. He's alive, that's all. Rights are what you can get enforced and he can't get anything enforced because there are no other people to establish his rights or enforce them. Nature doesn't give a fuck whether he lives or dies. If he has natural rights then they would be in play even if you were all alone on an island but they aren't in play because they don't exist.

Natural law doesn't exist - that is so non-liberal

your posting contradicts itself on natural law

Funny or sad, that you don't see it

natural law is incorporated into our US Constitution
no wonder the Democrats/progressives abuse it, so much
they don't really understand it

 

[PaintMyHouse]

one man on island would not need a court or the need to sue

now you are just being silly

you are trying, rather poorly, to mix natural law and positive law

perhaps a lack of understanding on your part or political
bias blinds you to see that their is more than positive laws

Natural law doesn't exist, that's the point. The man alone on an island has no rights, not a one. He's alive, that's all. Rights are what you can get enforced and he can't get anything enforced because there are no other people to establish his rights or enforce them. Nature doesn't give a fuck whether he lives or dies. If he has natural rights then they would be in play even if you were all alone on an island but they aren't in play because they don't exist.

your posting contradicts itself on natural law

Funny or sad, that you don't see it

natural law is incorporated into our US Constitution
no wonder the Democrats/progressives abuse it, so much
they don't really understand it

You just keep repeating dogma. If natural law truly existed then it would be in play for one man all alone on an island. He would have rights, but he has no rights, not even to life. He simply is. The same thing with a man floating through space all alone. He has himself, whatever he can manage to do to survive, but he has no rights, not a one.

You've been taught that natural Rights exist, but they don't. That is just another product of the minds of men. We are the creators of rights, and they only truly exist if you can get them enforced. Otherwise they are simply words. For the man on the island, we doesn't even have that much. He has nothing but what exists and what he can create.

 

[Neotrotsky]

dogma like
natural rights don't exist
got it

taught indeed

it is even taught in US law schools
as existing

but what do they know

oh and another error in your thinking
no belief in a god is necessary for natural rights

 

[PaintMyHouse]

dogma like
natural rights don't exist
got it

That's not dogma. I've already proven that they don't exist, just an invention in the minds of men trying to justify where the rights they wrote down on paper come from.

 

[Neotrotsky]

proven in your mind, perhaps
no doubt it provides some type of comfort for you

 

[percysunshine]

This must be your way of acknowledging a losing position in a debate.

The image is perfect....chuckle

The losing is not mine. If rights don't come from men, then he should still have rights all alone on his island. So, name them?

You have to get past the dogma, and actually think.

Evolution is not dogma. Well, not yet any way. The man had to get onto the island in the first place. How?

It doesn't matter how he got there. Maybe he was cast adrift like Moses? What matters is, once there, if his rights do not come from men then what rights does he have?

I would propose that it does matter how he got there. Otherwise, we are arguing about artificially contrived circumstances. Not that that should matter in a thread about utopia. Making stuff up for the comfort and convenience of a warm and fuzzy world view is understandable.

So, on with it..

In this island world we have a man alone, maybe a few coconuts, a fish or two he can eat, maybe .. what else? He is alone on an island. Where is this story going? Does FEMA rescue him or something?

Okay, he got there the way Tom Hanks did in the movie. He's alive, but all alone. So, what are his rights?

Yeah, 'Joe versus the Volcano'. As I recall, he outfitted himself with about a half million dollars worth of stuff bought at a Neiman Marcus before his odyssey...but I digress.

So he is alone. Then what happens? He has no rights unless FEMA shows up? He has the right to jump off his luggage crates and get eaten by sharks, if that is his choice.

.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

proven in your mind, perhaps
no doubt it provides some type of comfort for you

It has nothing to do with my mind, and everything to do with the fact that a man alone has no rights. For that you need at least two men, who write these rights down, agree to them, and then find a way to enforce them. They can say they have a Right to Life, but nature doesn't. If they both get sick and die, she doesn't give a damn and they have can't sue her. They are simply dead. Animals eat all their food, there's nothing they can do about because they had a right to their labor. That right doesn't exist.

You have rights because my people created them and you can go to the courts and the police to get them enforced. Take those three things away and you have nothing like rights, not a one.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The losing is not mine. If rights don't come from men, then he should still have rights all alone on his island. So, name them?

You have to get past the dogma, and actually think.

Evolution is not dogma. Well, not yet any way. The man had to get onto the island in the first place. How?

It doesn't matter how he got there. Maybe he was cast adrift like Moses? What matters is, once there, if his rights do not come from men then what rights does he have?

I would propose that it does matter how he got there. Otherwise, we are arguing about artificially contrived circumstances. Not that that should matter in a thread about utopia. Making stuff up for the comfort and convenience of a warm and fuzzy world view is understandable.

So, on with it..

In this island world we have a man alone, maybe a few coconuts, a fish or two he can eat, maybe .. what else? He is alone on an island. Where is this story going? Does FEMA rescue him or something?

Okay, he got there the way Tom Hanks did in the movie. He's alive, but all alone. So, what are his rights?

Yeah, 'Joe versus the Volcano'. As I recall, he outfitted himself with about a half million dollars worth of stuff bought at a Neiman Marcus before his odyssey...but I digress.

So he is alone. Then what happens? He has no rights unless FEMA shows up? He has the right to jump off his luggage crates and get eaten by sharks, if that is his choice.

.

The sharks won't be acknowledging his Right to Life eh? To them, he's food. Which means, he doesn't have a right to life, no such thing exist, except on paper, created and written down by men.

 

[Neotrotsky]

enforcement does not equate to the creation of right

man alone still has rights
being alone just means they could not be
interfered with by other people.