I'd love to have cons give me their definition of conservative

[80zephyr]

What is conservatism? It's the idea that government should do as little as possible, and should confine its influence to areas where private people and groups cannot do what is needed.

Not just areas where the govt thinks it can do "better" than private people or groups. But areas where private people and groups can't do it at all.

Such as foreign relations, national defense, setting national standards, running courts, dispassionately prosecuting lawbreakers, etc.

In a word, protecting people's rights.

And conservatives know that not everything we want, even necessary things like food and health care, is a "right". Govt should keep its hands off most things. People should do nearly everything for themselves, helping each other where needed, failing and trying again (a good way to learn), etc.

Conservatives hold that govt's job is to keep other people from interfering as you try to live your own life, except where you invited them to participate. Either people outside the country (foreign attack or invasion), or people inside the country (criminals, fraud artists, and govt itself). Otherwise govt should keep its hands off and stay out of they way.

I bet you're gonna vote for the fascist dictator Trump who's going to start a war with Iran which will cost at least $10 trillion dollars and waste another $200 billion building a wall the Mexicans will just dig under....and spend another trillion dollars putting eleven million aliens in concentration camps.

Why would we put them in camps? Wouldn't it be cheaper just to shoot them?

Lol...liberals.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

Government's job isn't to give us things that benefit us.

It's to keep other people from interfering while we work to give ourselves things that benefit us.

Nonsense. Govt has every responsibility to step in and allow society to meet some need that private markets cannot. Universal care is the poster child. Back in the 50s and 60s and even 70s, health insurance was common job benefit. With globalization, employers find it difficult to keep offering it. I don't like the way obamacare did it, but the fact is the way it was originally set up, it did basically do so without more deficit spending.

Jefferson and Madison both helped establish tax supported higher education. Try finding education as an enumerated govt function in the 1776 Virginia constitution.

Until the government started "helping" medical care was more affordable. Isn't it amazing that one of the most affordable treatments today is lasic eye surgery? Know why? Because the government and insurance companies don't fund the procedure.

Mark

You guys aren't helping yourselves. You seem to only want Big Government intervenion if it helps those who don't need it. God forbid Government intervene and help those who actually need it. You're losing the People. You're coming off as a bunch of greedy, hateful, bigoted white folks.

It matters not, really. If the conservatives don't win, the country will eventually go insolvent. Adults make choices based on reality. If the majority want to take the country down, I say more power to them.

Changing a persons beliefs so the country can collapse isn't much of a choice.

Mark

The national debt has been paid off only once in our history and that by a Democrat.

Lol. Link?

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

Not American values, right wing values. The constitution says that Americans have the right to the pursuit of happiness, yet cons deny other Americans the right to love who they want. They deny others the right to smoke pot, yet get drunk themselves. And cigarettes have killed more than all the wars in American history, and cons keep that legal. The constitution says that we have the right to privacy, yet cons want to be in everybody's bedroom.

The Constitution says that we have the right to freedom of speech, ...cons say freedom of speech is only for those that have money.

Cons don't conserve the constitution....they destroyed it.

Liberals have called for hate speech laws against those who speak out against Islam. Denying same sex marriage is controlling mental illness. Liberals have always been in favor of that. They only allow this mental illness to suck up for VOTES, just as they do with immigrants, Muslims, Blacks, criminals, etc

And cons want to be in everybody's bedroom ? Whaaat ??

And cons have the values of PROTECTING the American people from harm, while liberals do the opposite (ex. immigration, Syrian refugees, ISIS, death penalty, gun-free zones, etc)

People like you, that have mental illness, point their finger at others and claim they are. You are sexual deviate....and a bigot.

If you have any morals that you would like to see as law, you're a bigot as well. Welcome to the club.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

What is it to be conservative? What is it that cons conserve?

There is social conservatism, and there is fiscal conservatism.

That's like saying the Titanic could float just fine after hitting the iceberg, because there were only holes on the right side of the hull, but the left side was still intact.

Conservatism is the belief (and practice) of government having nothing to do with most of people's lives, only protecting their rights but otherwise staying out of the way.

You can't be conservative in some things and big-govt in others. That simply means you are a big-govt liberal.

Raygun tripled the national debt....Shrub daddy doubled it again in only four years....Shrub Jr. doubled it again WITH A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS AND SENATE. That's more than half of the national debt. You got nothing but hypocrisy.

No president doubled or tripled anything. Policies in place long before they became president added to the debt. If what you say is true(that the GOP is bad) then Obama per ordinary logic is also bad.

Know what? Without fundamental change in America, Christ himself could be president, and the debt will continue to skyrocket.

Mark

 

[Dovahkiin]

The conservative movement has been hijacked by religious fundamenalists and people who have an obsession with this man's absurd ideas: Grover Norquist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[80zephyr]

I dunno about the gnp/fed debt argument. It seems to me it increased under Reagan and slightly declined under Slick

Debt to GDP Ratio Historical Chart | MacroTrends

Of course, Slick got incredibly lucky in benefiting from econ forces he did little to create. But then again, much of Reagan's stagflation was already behind us when he was inaugurated.

Yep. Presidents are like quarterbacks. Too much credit or blame when they actually are mostly along for the ride.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

The conservative movement has been hijacked by religious fundamenalists and people who have an obsession with this man's absurd ideas: Grover Norquist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The religious would naturally be conservative. Your claim is like me saying that liberalism has been hijacked by the blacks and unions.

Its absurd.

Mark

 

[80zephyr]

What is it to be conservative? What is it that cons conserve?

There is social conservatism, and there is fiscal conservatism.

That's like saying the Titanic could float just fine after hitting the iceberg, because there were only holes on the right side of the hull, but the left side was still intact.

Conservatism is the belief (and practice) of government having nothing to do with most of people's lives, only protecting their rights but otherwise staying out of the way.

You can't be conservative in some things and big-govt in others. That simply means you are a big-govt liberal.

So you can't be conservative if you believe we can't spend enough on the big government of the military?

I believe in a strong national defense. I just don't believe we should also be paying for the defense of other countries while they rip into us for not having the social programs they do.

Libertarians, with a capital L, believe our military should not be much bigger than the size of a cub scout troop. I depart from them on this.

Invading other countries is NOT national defense. Meddling in other countries is not national defense. Just like the Iraq invasion has only made it worse and created ISIS, so too Korea, Vietnam, the Iran/Iraq war, the drug war in Columbia and Mexico. Since the drug war started, we've spent trillion$ on it, and have a hundred thousand times more drugs.

You do realize that invading other countries is done by both parties?

Mark

 

[paulitician]

I think 'Conservatism' is about people forcing 'morals' on others based on their own personal religious beliefs and convictions.

Why do you describe that as "thinking"? When all you are doing is quoting liberal talking points?

Most of you calling yourselves 'Conservatives', routinely use Government to force your idea of morals on others. And that isn't 'Small/Less Government.' And you guys do seem to only care about yourselves. That's why i can't call myself a Conservative anymore.

Lol. You do realize that whoever "wins" is forcing their morals on others? If gay marriage is made legal, it is forced upon the rest of us.

Mark

Why can't they get married? It's none of Government's business.

You made a statement, and I answered it. Now, answer mine. With the passage of gay marriage has the left imposed their morals on the rest of society?

A simple yes or no will do.

Mark

No.

 

[paulitician]

You guys aren't helping yourselves. You seem to only want Big Government intervenion if it helps those who don't need it. God forbid Government intervene and help those who actually need it. You're losing the People. You're coming off as a bunch of greedy, hateful, bigoted white folks.

When Donald Trump deports millions of illegal aliens he will be helping the poorest of America's working class who have been dispossessed of jobs for decades. Janitors, construction laborers, hotel maids, landscapers, and other American unskilled workers (MANY of them Black & Hispanic) are the ones hurt the most by illegal immigration. That will be government helping those WHO NEED IT.

Same thing with Trump's plans to restrict Muslim immigration. That keeps ALL of us safe from being blown to bits by ISIS.

I fully support ending Illegal Immigration.

 

[paulitician]

I think 'Conservatism' is about people forcing 'morals' on others based on their own personal religious beliefs and convictions.

Why do you describe that as "thinking"? When all you are doing is quoting liberal talking points?

Most of you calling yourselves 'Conservatives', routinely use Government to force your idea of morals on others. And that isn't 'Small/Less Government.' And you guys do seem to only care about yourselves. That's why i can't call myself a Conservative anymore.

You do realize that things like murder an theft are illegal because they are deemed immoral, right?

You guys claim to be for Small/Less Government, yet you're the first ones to support more Government intervention in Citizens' personal lives. So i'm seeing Conservatives as only being about hating gays, minorities, poor folks, and trying to force their religious zealotry on others. That's why i don't consider myself a Conservative anymore. I don't want any part of that.

 

[paulitician]

Government's job isn't to give us things that benefit us.

It's to keep other people from interfering while we work to give ourselves things that benefit us.

Nonsense. Govt has every responsibility to step in and allow society to meet some need that private markets cannot. Universal care is the poster child. Back in the 50s and 60s and even 70s, health insurance was common job benefit. With globalization, employers find it difficult to keep offering it. I don't like the way obamacare did it, but the fact is the way it was originally set up, it did basically do so without more deficit spending.

Jefferson and Madison both helped establish tax supported higher education. Try finding education as an enumerated govt function in the 1776 Virginia constitution.

Until the government started "helping" medical care was more affordable. Isn't it amazing that one of the most affordable treatments today is lasic eye surgery? Know why? Because the government and insurance companies don't fund the procedure.

Mark

You guys aren't helping yourselves. You seem to only want Big Government intervenion if it helps those who don't need it. God forbid Government intervene and help those who actually need it. You're losing the People. You're coming off as a bunch of greedy, hateful, bigoted white folks.

It matters not, really. If the conservatives don't win, the country will eventually go insolvent. Adults make choices based on reality. If the majority want to take the country down, I say more power to them.

Changing a persons beliefs so the country can collapse isn't much of a choice.

Mark

The national debt has been paid off only once in our history and that by a Democrat.

Being a Conservative isn't about supporting Small/Less Government. That myth has been dispelled thoroughly. Conservatives love Big Government. But only when it benefits them. Conservatives are about hating gays, minorities, poor folks, and forcing their religious zealotry on others. And of course being deranged warmongers too.

Things really went south for the Republican Party when it allowed the religious fanatic Conservatives to gain so much power. It's not a Party i feel comfortable supporting at this point. It reminds me too much of the Nazi Party. The similarties are pretty eery.

 

[ScienceRocks]

A lot of the so called conservatives on this board seem to be a mixture of libertarian on economic issues and extreme social conservative socially. Better known as the loserterian!!!

They pretty much hate government doing any of the basic functions of society when it comes to economics, but are all for forcing their far right christian crap down everyone's throat.

The worse of both worlds.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The conservative movement has been hijacked by religious fundamenalists and people who have an obsession with this man's absurd ideas: Grover Norquist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yep,,,The republicans far right has transformed into what I call Loserterian. They're a hybrid creature of social conservative and extreme economic libertarian. They don't even believe in paving our roads and most of the things the old republican platform use to call for.

They must be destroyed. They're a disease.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Economic conservationism in historic terms was for massive government of the king. The idea was first promoted during the 16th and 17th century in defense of the old school of divine rights of kings. Liberalism during this time believed in the government of the people and less power for the king.

 

[bripat9643]

Self interest needs no justification. It's the modus operandi of virtually every creature in the universe.

The idea that you are entitled to anything I have earned is the claim that needs a moral justification. So far, no one has ever managed to provide one.

 

[bripat9643]

Economic conservationism in historic terms was for massive government of the king. The idea was first promoted during the 16th and 17th century in defense of the old school of divine rights of kings. Liberalism during this time believed in the government of the people and less power for the king.

Calling that "conservatism" is like calling Alchemy a science. If anyone supports the economic theories prevalent during the monarchy, it's liberals.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

 

[Conservative65]

What is it to be conservative? What is it that cons conserve?

The hatred of liberals, all change and progress, and anyone else not like them, mostly.

And there aren't any conservatives these days, which is a shame.

I don't have a problem with change and progress. I don't see what Liberals propose as progress and there isn't much difference between what they propose now and the big government mindset they have proposed for years.

You don't have to be like me. I don't care. If you want to be wrong, you have that right.

 

[Conservative65]

It's always a hoot when liberals try to define conservatism. The lies and utter fantasies are impressive in their sheer scope.

Let's pick one: Promote cooperation.

The sad thing is Liberals define cooperation as we won so sit down, shut up, and do what we want. In other words, they consideration cooperation as doing it their way or be subject to having it mandated to do it their way,.