If the US healthcare system is the best and socialism is the worst

[Meister]

Yeah, whatever....I'm not the one here with blind faith in bureaucratic monopoly, you are.

You want your medical care handled by the same fatasses who run the DMV, that's your funeral...Just don't wave a gun in my face and expect me to like paying for it.

No you trust some insurer who is looking for his next Yacht to handle your care.

There it is again....Pure, unvarnished, naked envy.

Thanks for lending me the insight into your petty covetous soul.

I caught that when she was responding to one of Syphon's posts. Sure did tip her hand on it

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Running up deficits in the process...please be thorough in you posts about this.

So you must think insurance companies run at a loss. Every American would contribute as they do now to insurance companies. The government would be the insurer. With a larger pool instead of just those in the highest risk groups there would be more funds. But since you believe obviously that insurance companies run at a loss you may be correct.

Would you kindly address the deficit part of my post? You're a socialist...I get that from your earlier post. But there comes a time when the credit card has to be paid....and we don't have the money for it. I tried to show you that these countries that have a huge socialist lean....they're not making it economically, neither would we. Get a grip on reality.

Sorry I missed that. There are deficits yes and much of this is due to the high risk groups the government is insuring. There is no soft group where they pay premiums without much pay out from the carrier. This has the government paying out more per person then insurance companies. A standard carrier has individuals who pay in for decades with few claims. The government covers many elderly on fixed incomes and disabled. Their premiums are low as they pay out of Social Security. Most of these people would have nothing in the way of insurance if they had to pay standard carriers when most have preexisting conditions. That is why there is an insurance deficit. If they had the balance as the companies do this would not occur. You know insurance companies make money. If your government is collecting the premiums that standard carriers are collecting they like the companies would not have the deficit situation.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Really?

So it's more about government ideology than it is about healthcare for the people...isn't it?
That's the same view as the politicians. No credibility on your behalf...too bad

He asked who had the money. Do you think the top two percent don't have the money in their bank account?
Please don't insult all of us about credibility. I asked for a link and you provide a quip from NPR that tells us nothing about what actually happened to the German system and you talk about credibility. LOL not this is funny. That would be like me posting a link to Bill Maher talking about the cause of inflation.

I knew we'd get there eventually.

It's all about envy....Nothing more.

Again a snide comment on a serious of posts you didn't read or failed to understand. I answered a question. There are courses you could take that would help. I would suggest reading for understanding.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

All they need to do is double down on more government "revenue"...that will resolve the problem.

See how this works with healthcare?

Like Oddball a lot of talk and zero substance.

Piss off.

We're the ones arguing against monopoly.....Sucks to be you.

It doesn't suck to be me at all. You don't seem to arguing for anything. If you call snide quips argument maybe you're winning but that's about it.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Maybe you would do well to move the hell to Europe, if you think that their cradle-to-grave moocher state is such great shakes.

You socialist mewlers remind me of people who moved into Steamboat because it was different from Vail and Aspen, then spend the rest of their time there trying to make it more like Vail and Aspen.

You do realize that our ancestors left Europe, with little more than they could carry onto the ship, for some very compelling reasons, don't you?

Did I say that I didn't have a home in Europe? See when you tell someone to move you have nothing to debate about as you seem to know very little.

If you have a home in Europe, go live there and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.

You finally found someone with answers that you can't debate. I'm surprised it took you so long to do that. I would have figured that would have happened with your first post.

 

[Oddball]

Like Oddball a lot of talk and zero substance.

Piss off.

We're the ones arguing against monopoly.....Sucks to be you.

It doesn't suck to be me at all. You don't seem to arguing for anything. If you call snide quips argument maybe you're winning but that's about it.

Yes, it does suck to be you.

I can't even imagine what it must be like to be so envious of people who make more and purchase more than do I....Well, I can imagine it, but it makes me physically ill.

No wonder you're such a bitter sourpuss.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Really?

So it's more about government ideology than it is about healthcare for the people...isn't it?
That's the same view as the politicians. No credibility on your behalf...too bad

He asked who had the money. Do you think the top two percent don't have the money in their bank account?
Please don't insult all of us about credibility. I asked for a link and you provide a quip from NPR that tells us nothing about what actually happened to the German system and you talk about credibility. LOL not this is funny. That would be like me posting a link to Bill Maher talking about the cause of inflation.

I just knew NPR is too radically right for you, but thanks for proving my point about your position. Perhaps you're more of a communist than a socialist. If you are, please accept my apology by calling you a socialist.

The guy with the bank account doesn't have Syphon's 4500. I hate to be the bearer of bad news to you...you needed to know.

I read it and responded as best I could. The article did not explain what occured in Germany. It just told us what is happening. There has to be a reason. The medical care contract must have been to low. Who knows. The article did not expound on that part of the issue. Socialist works for me provided you know what that is and not what McCain said.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

All they need to do is double down on more government "revenue"...that will resolve the problem.

See how this works with healthcare?

Like Oddball a lot of talk and zero substance.

Seems the only thing you've brought to the table is your opinion...no substance...none, zero, nadda. Typical with moochers like yourself.

I brought a set of stats that you have yet to do anything with except to say you don't agree. Seems like you have brought nothing to the table but applause for someone who has no knowledge and only makes silly comments.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Do you understand anything about being taxed for this type of social program.
First you have an income tax...then you have some steep gas taxes, then you have a VAT, etc, etc.
Keep your feet on the ground, would you?

Yes I do. You would no longer be paying insurance premiums and that would be less than the actual taxes. Do you understand about being taxed for this and what they would cost? Your business that pays the insurance premiums now would pay for the universal health care premium. So tell me what tax you are speaking about.

Trust me on this, person, who brings nothing to the table, but a hand looking for a handout. At the end of the day, I have more in my pocket with my fully funded healthcare than I would with a government single payer program that is FULLY FUNDED

Wow three cheers for you. Yours is fully funded how nice for you so fuck everyone else. Nice job. You have done well for yourself. You have no idea how well you would do. As far as the stats show your fully funded is 37th best in the world.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Yeah, whatever....I'm not the one here with blind faith in bureaucratic monopoly, you are.

You want your medical care handled by the same fatasses who run the DMV, that's your funeral...Just don't wave a gun in my face and expect me to like paying for it.

No you trust some insurer who is looking for his next Yacht to handle your care.

I trust an insurer looking for his next yacht more than I do a policitian. No question about that.

So you don't trust the US government? Wow that is hard to believe. You sound like you would.

 

[Meister]

Like Oddball a lot of talk and zero substance.

Seems the only thing you've brought to the table is your opinion...no substance...none, zero, nadda. Typical with moochers like yourself.

I brought a set of stats that you have yet to do anything with except to say you don't agree. Seems like you have brought nothing to the table but applause for someone who has no knowledge and only makes silly comments.

It comes down to you're a socialist and we're not. This country has a degree of socialism, but not the amount you want. What you would like we don't like. Couldn't get any simpler than that. I don't believe that a government run healthcare is good for 300 million and counting.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Bullshit.

The in-state defacto insurance monopolies and complete insulation of those receiving the service and those paying for it, are why the costs have escalated...Lest we leave out Medicare/Medicaid, which are financial train wrecks.

You really don't know diddly-poo about basic economics, do you?

The US does not work on profit? That would be a surprise to everyone.
Medicare is the highest risk group in the US costs are high as are Medicaid patients as well as VA.
I am wondering if you know anything at all except how to spell and string words together in a semblance of order.
I know more than your friend Meister that has no idea what the taxes would be and where they would come from for the coverage. he even thinks the insurance operate at a loss. So if you want to talk about someone who doesn't know anything about economics you should mention him or her.

Sorry to burst your bubble on many levels about myself with your projecting. I would love to see a company run a profit as to a government running a deficit.
Something you and your peabrain mind just can't seem to grasp is the fact that if I don't like the company...I can look for another one. I can't go looking for another government.
Please don't post like and ignorant communist.

Tell me if you really think the insurance companies make a profit with the premiums they receive why the government would not do the same? They money is the same in premium total. You have me baffled with your circular bull on that one.

 

[Vidi]

Bullshit.

The in-state defacto insurance monopolies and complete insulation of those receiving the service and those paying for it, are why the costs have escalated...Lest we leave out Medicare/Medicaid, which are financial train wrecks.

You really don't know diddly-poo about basic economics, do you?

The in state mini monopolies are definitely causing some of the rise in prices but theres more to it than that.

We have an aging baby boomer population which creates more demand for medical services thus drives the cost up. Our system is more corrective as opposed to preventive medicine. Preventive medicine is cheaper in the long run which is why insurance companies were beginning to cover more preventive procedures even before the ACA was passed, and finally while some reports ( from the CBO ) say that mecial malpractice insurance only accoutns for a 2% rise in costs, other reports ( specifically from the AMA ) say that it accounts for much mnore than that saying that the CBO report focused only on corrective medicine and ignored prevenetive.

So I agree with you that those mini monopolies are bad and ARE driving up costs but they are not the only factor.

the question though is this:

Those companies have those monopolies because they have deals with the individual states. If the federal government tries to force interstate competition, they are then encroaching on states rights. Is this a case where that would be acceptable, or should the change be forced within the state governments themselves?

And if so, how is that accomplished, with groups like ALEC out there working nation wide against such a thing?

We also have people like you treating insurance (that which should be used for unforeseeable maladies and trauma) as defacto pre-paid medical, for any and every single contact with anyone that has lays any hands on anyone for anything.

You want an annual check-up?...Pay for it!
You want a chiro adjustment?...Pay for it!
You want in vitro?...Pay for it!
You want to go to drug/alcohol treatment?...Pay for it!
You want BC pills?...Pay for them!
You get a 'roid from sitting on your ass for too long?..Pay for it!

But noooooooooooooooo!...You see anyone in a white lab coat, and the socialistic moocher class needs someone else has to pay the bill!

people like me? moocher?

LOL dude, you dont have the first clue who I am, what I do for a living, the amount of hours I put in, nothing.

Wow you must think youre an amazing perfect person to think you can see my entire life through the electrons on the screen. Arrrogant much?

Dont be so quick to assume. You just look foolish.

Or you could just be a loser forum troll. If so I just fed you. Youre welcome.


PS it hilarious that you chose Donald Sutherland as your avatar. Have you read his blog on HuffPo? He's a screaming socialist and you chose him to represent you....hmmmmm....freudian?

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Yeah, whatever....I'm not the one here with blind faith in bureaucratic monopoly, you are.

You want your medical care handled by the same fatasses who run the DMV, that's your funeral...Just don't wave a gun in my face and expect me to like paying for it.

No you trust some insurer who is looking for his next Yacht to handle your care.

There it is again....Pure, unvarnished, naked envy.

Thanks for lending me the insight into your petty covetous soul.

Again you type and nothing worth reading comes out. Thanks for playing with the few cards you seem to have.

 

[Meister]

The US does not work on profit? That would be a surprise to everyone.
Medicare is the highest risk group in the US costs are high as are Medicaid patients as well as VA.
I am wondering if you know anything at all except how to spell and string words together in a semblance of order.
I know more than your friend Meister that has no idea what the taxes would be and where they would come from for the coverage. he even thinks the insurance operate at a loss. So if you want to talk about someone who doesn't know anything about economics you should mention him or her.

Sorry to burst your bubble on many levels about myself with your projecting. I would love to see a company run a profit as to a government running a deficit.
Something you and your peabrain mind just can't seem to grasp is the fact that if I don't like the company...I can look for another one. I can't go looking for another government.
Please don't post like and ignorant communist.

Tell me if you really think the insurance companies make a profit with the premiums they receive why the government would not do the same? They money is the same in premium total. You have me baffled with your circular bull on that one.

Because the government hasn't done well at running a business. The government was never set up to run a business.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Piss off.

We're the ones arguing against monopoly.....Sucks to be you.

It doesn't suck to be me at all. You don't seem to arguing for anything. If you call snide quips argument maybe you're winning but that's about it.

Yes, it does suck to be you.

I can't even imagine what it must be like to be so envious of people who make more and purchase more than do I....Well, I can imagine it, but it makes me physically ill.

No wonder you're such a bitter sourpuss.

I'm not a bitter sourpuss at all. I don't worry about money I have plenty but don't need to think about it. You would do well to use all your focus on the topic, well maybe you wouldn't be able to get a grasp on it even if you focused.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The US does not work on profit? That would be a surprise to everyone.
Medicare is the highest risk group in the US costs are high as are Medicaid patients as well as VA.
I am wondering if you know anything at all except how to spell and string words together in a semblance of order.
I know more than your friend Meister that has no idea what the taxes would be and where they would come from for the coverage. he even thinks the insurance operate at a loss. So if you want to talk about someone who doesn't know anything about economics you should mention him or her.

Sorry to burst your bubble on many levels about myself with your projecting. I would love to see a company run a profit as to a government running a deficit.
Something you and your peabrain mind just can't seem to grasp is the fact that if I don't like the company...I can look for another one. I can't go looking for another government.
Please don't post like and ignorant communist.

Tell me if you really think the insurance companies make a profit with the premiums they receive why the government would not do the same? They money is the same in premium total. You have me baffled with your circular bull on that one.

Tell me if you really think the insurance companies make a profit with the premiums they receive why the government would not do the same?

OMG! That's funny! What can the government do better than the private sector?

The only thing I can think of is government wastes money better than the private sector.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Seems the only thing you've brought to the table is your opinion...no substance...none, zero, nadda. Typical with moochers like yourself.

I brought a set of stats that you have yet to do anything with except to say you don't agree. Seems like you have brought nothing to the table but applause for someone who has no knowledge and only makes silly comments.

It comes down to you're a socialist and we're not. This country has a degree of socialism, but not the amount you want. What you would like we don't like. Couldn't get any simpler than that. I don't believe that a government run healthcare is good for 300 million and counting.

In fact the US government could not run it as it stands. It would have to really add more function to the base it already has. They have never done this one the massive scale. It would take time. Even now they manipulate the prices downward through negotiations. This would be a far bigger bite of the apple than they are doing now.
I really do think the insurance carriers need to remain in force for a time as the government builds to full coverage. If the full health care package as in the European nations which have done it for years would have come to be the US would have been swamped.
I don't think the US should be ranked 37th. They should be first as there is the ingenuity and drive to make that happen. Costs need to go down. The cost is to high and the lower income people and those out of work have no way to afford health care.
The US can tackle this and straighten out the problem if left and right can work together as one body instead of competition.
It's a serious problem and will only get worse over time.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Tell me if you really think the insurance companies make a profit with the premiums they receive why the government would not do the same?

OMG! That's funny! What can the government do better than the private sector?

The only thing I can think of is government wastes money better than the private sector.

That means you were not thinking of these things:

Workers Comp Scandals in other States
^Privatization of workers comp in California results in workers comp costs increasing to above 166% of the national median.

BBC News - Ken Clarke privatises Birmingham Prison amid union fury
^In UK privatized prisons cost 5% more even though private prisons don't provide workers with adequate benefits or pay.

Privatization During an Economic Downturn: Still Inefficient and Problematic | Progressive States Network
^Privatization of parking and parking meters resulted in an increase in costs by 240%

You’re in good hands with Social Security: But Privatization Proposals Would Unravel Its Ability to Insure Against Loss of Income, Disability, and Death | Economic Policy Institute
^SS keeps 39% of the elderly out of poverty
^SS returns are 26% higher than private alternatives

Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator | Home
Disagreeing With Dignan: The Politics Of Poverty And Welfare | Alas, a Blog
http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-donate-money-to-charity.html
^---Government welfare is around 3 times more efficient than private charity.
^Average charity has administration costs of 30% compared to 5% for government
^Americans spend around 300 billion a year on charity. If government were to become the only "charity" than Americas would save around 75 billion dollars a year.

Rights At Risk With Binding Mandatory Arbitration 9/28/07 | abc7news.com
Testimony
------------^In 1980s conservative supreme court rewrote federal law allowing special interest to do forced arbitrations.
Making it so consumers and the industry could only go to trial in privatized systems run by special interests.
^Examples of privatized court systems and forced arbitration:
---Special interests industries win over 95% of cases
---In one case a women was forced to pay 8,000 because someone else had the same name as her and owed the company money.
---One judge who ruled in favor of consumers once was immediacy removed from his judge position.
Public Citizen | Press Room - Arbitration More Expensive Than Court
^arbitration has 700% more administrative spending
^arbitrations also don't provide justice but instead corporate lawlessness
^arbitrations also charge fees that justice offers for free that equals 700%+ of admin costs
Public Citizen | Congress Watch | Congress Watch - PC rebuttal to industry's misleading statment on BMA report
^Arbitrations favor corporations by more than 25%
^In total the government justice department saves 50 billion a year.
^
Conservative Arbitration which granted corporations to become their own courts has allowed corporations to become above the law. Companies are immune from accountability if their actions result in the death or injury of a person. Any judge that handed down a verdict in favor of consumers was removed. People required to pay companies money that other people owed.
Court Deals Important Blow To Corporate Immunity | ThinkProgress
How Minnesota's AG Saved Consumers From the Credit Card Industry | ThinkProgress

http://www.genevaassociation.org/pdf/News/2011GlobalInsuranceIndustryFactsheet.pdf
http://www.bls.gov/opub/focus/volume2_number12/cex_2_12.pdf
The Real Costs of Car Ownership Calculator
^Socializing life insurance alone would save America 250billion yearly
^Socializing car insurance/home/and all others minus health care would save 200 billion
^Socializing all insurance minus health care would save almost 500billion dollars yearly

 

[Vidi]

Agreed, I think we could have open borders between the states for competition and have a safety net for the less fortunate.
I have always said that the government is part of the solution, but the government isn't the solution.

And thats what we are getting with the Affordable Care Act. The government isnt running the health care industry with it, its simply setting standards by which more people get covered, the mandate with the 80-85% payout should drive premium costs down ( but the jury is still out on that one. There have been right wing anf left wing economists who have gone both ways on it. meaning some left wingers say it wont and some right wingers say it will. At least we know theyre being honest instead of partisan even if they cant give us a definitive answer ).

Eventually though, if we set a goal to cover everyone, as Eisenhower wanted and Nixon proposed, the we will most likely have to expand medicare.

More pure crap.

What Obolshevikcare care is doing is running all private insurers out of the market, leaving everyone with only one "option".

First, You keep throwing out these words like socialism and bolshevik, you obviously either don't know what they mean or don't understand the contents of the ACA. The ACA does not have a public option. Therefore, it drives NO ONE out of the market.

Second, my post was not defending the ACA. If you read it again, I was simply explaining how it's meant to work.

However, I can see that my refusal to use stupid asinine rhetorical buzzwords , like Obamacare, could be construed as support for the ACA.