If you don't want guns don't buy them?

[The Rabbi]

and yet the moron claims to be a lawyer.

I claim nothing. I state what I am.

i'm sorry you're not smart enough to understand our legal system marty. I tried to be as nice about it as I could.

but, really, you're ignorant on this issue as you are on the issue of marriage.

but there's no cure for stupid, so i'll stop treating you like you're a thinking human being.

Thats funny. You have proven many times you have no idea what the legal system is or what being a lawyer is about. Im more inclined to think RDean is a lawyer than you.

that's funny coming from a braindead angry misogynist wingnut who hates this country.

No refutation. Just misguided childish insults.
I rest my case, "counselor."

again, funny coming from you, wingnut.

see, that's the thing, everyone knows you're one of the most ignorant toxic people on the board.

the fact that you think your opinion is worth anything is simply amusikng.

but I suppose that's all you have in your little basement, playing on the internet.

I suppose bullying people makes you feel like you're somebody.

pssst... you aren't.... you're just an angry neocon misogynist loser who needs guns to make up for your.... shortcomings.

Doubling down on stupid. Funny you consider my unmasking you as "bullying."
The fact is your posts reveal deep ignorance of the law and many other issues. This leads me to conclude you arnet a lawyer but a liar.

 

[martybegan]

I claim nothing. I state what I am.

i'm sorry you're not smart enough to understand our legal system marty. I tried to be as nice about it as I could.

but, really, you're ignorant on this issue as you are on the issue of marriage.

but there's no cure for stupid, so i'll stop treating you like you're a thinking human being.

Thats funny. You have proven many times you have no idea what the legal system is or what being a lawyer is about. Im more inclined to think RDean is a lawyer than you.

that's funny coming from a braindead angry misogynist wingnut who hates this country.

No refutation. Just misguided childish insults.
I rest my case, "counselor."

again, funny coming from you, wingnut.

see, that's the thing, everyone knows you're one of the most ignorant toxic people on the board.

the fact that you think your opinion is worth anything is simply amusikng.

but I suppose that's all you have in your little basement, playing on the internet.

I suppose bullying people makes you feel like you're somebody.

pssst... you aren't.... you're just an angry neocon misogynist loser who needs guns to make up for your.... shortcomings.

Doubling down on stupid. Funny you consider my unmasking you as "bullying."
The fact is your posts reveal deep ignorance of the law and many other issues. This leads me to conclude you arnet a lawyer but a liar.

She could actually be a lawyer, but like some of her kind, she's fallen into the trap where people serve the law, not the other way around.

If you are an old AD&D/Pathfinder player, she is the worst type of Lawful Neutral, The Law is the Law, and it takes precedence over people.

 

[Dr Grump]

Good fucking luck.

Let's repeal the 4th while we are at it, would make law enforcement's job real real easy.

It's coming. Not within the next 10-20 years, but it is coming...

 

[OKTexas]

second, that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them... the nutters, the criminals, the spouse abusers, pedophiles...

I will agree with this. Now, I ask how you plan to go about doing that.

As I stated earlier in the thread, there are already laws in place to prevent all those folks from getting guns, how's that working for ya?

people on the right keep saying that. obviously if the loopholes we're talking about don't exist (which they do) and if background checks were universal (which they aren't) then we need to punch up the laws.

btw, two of the weapons used in yesterday's mass shooting (of which we have had more this year than there are days in the year) were purchased legally.

funny I don't even hear the islamophobes demanding background checks for people on the no fly list.

Seriously, are you saying we've had more than 365 mass shooting this year? And as I just said in another post, the shootings yesterday were terrorist, not your run of the mill shooters. Your average couple doesn't orphan their 6 month old child to settle a work dispute.

People with a history of mental illness, criminals (felons), which include pedophiles and spousal abusers are already legally disqualified from possessing firearms.

Also there are about 320 million legal firearms in the US, probably at least half again that many illegal ones smuggled in through our ports and southern border. Legal private sales are an extremely small percentage of the total gun transfers and most likely would have no statistical impact on crime, yet you regressives keep demanding background checks for them. Why would you do that knowing criminals won't obey the law, other than it's a way to inconvenience and add to the cost of the law abiding owning guns. Maybe you should be insisting that the current laws be properly enforced to block trafficking, illegal imports and sales of firearms and other materials like explosives. Once you get that accomplished, get back to me on the remainder of your wish list.

As for the no fly list, it's more inaccurate than the voter registration rolls.

 

[martybegan]

Good fucking luck.

Let's repeal the 4th while we are at it, would make law enforcement's job real real easy.

It's coming. Not within the next 10-20 years, but it is coming...

What, repealing the 2nd or the 4th?

Lets just throw the whole thing in the trash then.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Let's modify the Second Amendment

To what end? What the hell do you think that will accomplish? Europe has gun control laws and bans in spades and they have more shootings than the US does. Look the fact is Obama and many gun control advocates are liars, lets look at some facts.

1. In just 2015, France suffered more shooting casualties (killings and injuries) from mass public shootings than the US has suffered during Obama’s entire presidency (508 to 424).

2. Of the four worst K-12 school shootings, three have occurred in Europe.

3. European countries actually have higher rates of death from public shootings that resulted in four or more murders vs the US.

Q. "To what end"

A. It will ake away the only argument you and others gun lover's have. There is no rational reason for citizens of the US to have 300 million guns. None. Do you think the guns you own are capable of inflicting harm on and defending yourself from America's Military?

Post three sources (credible ones) to prove your allegations in 1, 2 and 3.

 

[OKTexas]

second, that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them... the nutters, the criminals, the spouse abusers, pedophiles...

I will agree with this. Now, I ask how you plan to go about doing that.

As I stated earlier in the thread, there are already laws in place to prevent all those folks from getting guns, how's that working for ya?

people on the right keep saying that. obviously if the loopholes we're talking about don't exist (which they do) and if background checks were universal (which they aren't) then we need to punch up the laws.

btw, two of the weapons used in yesterday's mass shooting (of which we have had more this year than there are days in the year) were purchased legally.

funny I don't even hear the islamophobes demanding background checks for people on the no fly list.

Amazing you're back here for more abuse.
There are no loopholes.
CA already has universal background checks. As you point out, the shooters bought their guns legally, as is the case most times.
What laws would prevent law abiding citizens from buying guns?

Licensing, registration and an accounting of the number of rounds sold. A simple process, any gun in the possession of an unlicensed person become a felony, a felony for the person possessing the weapon, and a felony and loss of the license (which requires all of the sellers other guns to be destroyed).

Thus, without a FFL any sale of a gun becomes a felony, and any sale by a holder of a FFL who sells a gun or ammo to an unlicensed person becomes a felony with a mandatory prison sentence.

How about those apples. This is what the NRA and its supporters will face, for a nation which experiences gun violence on the scale we are having, will eventually awaken and take these or more draconian action.

Some day people of good will will occupy The Congress, and actually put Country First. Some day the Supreme Court will understand the Second Amendment is a problem and needs to be reigned in for the US to become a civilized place to live.

Better idea, how about you move your ass to N. Korea, they already have that bullshit. Send us a post card and tell us how fucking great it is.

 

[BluesLegend]

Let's modify the Second Amendment

To what end? What the hell do you think that will accomplish? Europe has gun control laws and bans in spades and they have more shootings than the US does. Look the fact is Obama and many gun control advocates are liars, lets look at some facts.

1. In just 2015, France suffered more shooting casualties (killings and injuries) from mass public shootings than the US has suffered during Obama’s entire presidency (508 to 424).

2. Of the four worst K-12 school shootings, three have occurred in Europe.

3. European countries actually have higher rates of death from public shootings that resulted in four or more murders vs the US.

not that it will happen, but to what end?

so imbeciles stop pretending that we live in the wild west.

^^^ Possibly the stupidest reason to amend the US Constitution ever proposed.

I didn't say it would be amended. the question was asked why should it be.

and there's nothing stupid about it.

of course, I understand that rightwingnuts aren't really smart enough to engage on serious subjects.

I'm still waiting for you to back up your bat shit crazy claim of people pretending we live in the wild west. Or that you know fuck all about the old west in the first place.

 

[Dr Grump]

What, repealing the 2nd or the 4th?

Lets just throw the whole thing in the trash then.

The second. Why trash it? There are several great parts of it. The second is archaic and outdated in a modern society. It was put in to let the British know if they came back there would be a shitload of people there to meet them with a musket...

 

[BluesLegend]

Let's modify the Second Amendment

To what end? What the hell do you think that will accomplish? Europe has gun control laws and bans in spades and they have more shootings than the US does. Look the fact is Obama and many gun control advocates are liars, lets look at some facts.

1. In just 2015, France suffered more shooting casualties (killings and injuries) from mass public shootings than the US has suffered during Obama’s entire presidency (508 to 424).

2. Of the four worst K-12 school shootings, three have occurred in Europe.

3. European countries actually have higher rates of death from public shootings that resulted in four or more murders vs the US.

Q. "To what end"

A. It will ake away the only argument you and others gun lover's have. There is no rational reason for citizens of the US to have 300 million guns. None. Do you think the guns you own are capable of inflicting harm on and defending yourself from America's Military?

Post three sources (credible ones) to prove your allegations in 1, 2 and 3.

Newsflash its none of your fucking business if I choose to purchase firearms. God but that's so typical of busy body control freak liberals, go salvage your own life if you can and butt out of mine you weirdo.

 

[The Rabbi]

Good fucking luck.

Let's repeal the 4th while we are at it, would make law enforcement's job real real easy.

It's coming. Not within the next 10-20 years, but it is coming...

Jimmy Carter will come long before a change to the 2A.

 

[OKTexas]

As I stated earlier in the thread, there are already laws in place to prevent all those folks from getting guns, how's that working for ya?

people on the right keep saying that. obviously if the loopholes we're talking about don't exist (which they do) and if background checks were universal (which they aren't) then we need to punch up the laws.

btw, two of the weapons used in yesterday's mass shooting (of which we have had more this year than there are days in the year) were purchased legally.

funny I don't even hear the islamophobes demanding background checks for people on the no fly list.

Amazing you're back here for more abuse.
There are no loopholes.
CA already has universal background checks. As you point out, the shooters bought their guns legally, as is the case most times.
What laws would prevent law abiding citizens from buying guns?

Licensing, registration and an accounting of the number of rounds sold. A simple process, any gun in the possession of an unlicensed person become a felony, a felony for the person possessing the weapon, and a felony and loss of the license (which requires all of the sellers other guns to be destroyed).

Thus, without a FFL any sale of a gun becomes a felony, and any sale by a holder of a FFL who sells a gun or ammo to an unlicensed person becomes a felony with a mandatory prison sentence.

How about those apples. This is what the NRA and its supporters will face, for a nation which experiences gun violence on the scale we are having, will eventually awaken and take these or more draconian action.

Some day people of good will will occupy The Congress, and actually put Country First. Some day the Supreme Court will understand the Second Amendment is a problem and needs to be reigned in for the US to become a civilized place to live.

That will do exactly nothing to stop any gun violence.
CA has licensing and registration. We have tried registering ammunition. Didnt work. Thats why we dont do itanymore. A person with a felony is already committing a felony by having a gun. CA already has universal background checks.
The shooters here bought their guns legally because they were law abiding people. At least until they werent.
So your suggestions have been tried and found to be worthless. Their sole aim seems to be sticking it to legal gun owners, not cutting down on crime.

You read and can't comprehend. I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to believe your dense comments are not contrived. Of course you are dishonest, but maybe you even fool yourself.

People obey laws because they support them, or because they fear the consequences if they get caught.

Thus, a gun lover like you, would likely obey gun laws rather than risk the loss of them, the fines associated with not obeying the law and the possible jail or prison sentence.

Thus, licensing, registration and an accounting of the number of rounds of ammo purchased logged onto a national data base, with algorithms seeking anomalies associated with mass murderers and those on no fly lists, tied to FBI, State and Local Arrest records, including civil detentions for being a danger to themselves or others, has a good chance in saving lives and respecting a law abiding citizen's right to own, possess or have in his custody and control firearm.

Congress outlawed such national databases decades ago, knowing they would be used improperly. I don't see them changing that.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Let's modify the Second Amendment

To what end? What the hell do you think that will accomplish? Europe has gun control laws and bans in spades and they have more shootings than the US does. Look the fact is Obama and many gun control advocates are liars, lets look at some facts.

1. In just 2015, France suffered more shooting casualties (killings and injuries) from mass public shootings than the US has suffered during Obama’s entire presidency (508 to 424).

2. Of the four worst K-12 school shootings, three have occurred in Europe.

3. European countries actually have higher rates of death from public shootings that resulted in four or more murders vs the US.

Q. "To what end"

A. It will ake away the only argument you and others gun lover's have. There is no rational reason for citizens of the US to have 300 million guns. None. Do you think the guns you own are capable of inflicting harm on and defending yourself from America's Military?

Post three sources (credible ones) to prove your allegations in 1, 2 and 3.

You're assuming the military will overlook the Constitution and fight against their on people. I doubt that will ever happen. All military personnel swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, including a tyrannical government.

In other words, the military will be on the side of the people not on the side of an unconstitutional government.

 

[The Rabbi]

Let's modify the Second Amendment

To what end? What the hell do you think that will accomplish? Europe has gun control laws and bans in spades and they have more shootings than the US does. Look the fact is Obama and many gun control advocates are liars, lets look at some facts.

1. In just 2015, France suffered more shooting casualties (killings and injuries) from mass public shootings than the US has suffered during Obama’s entire presidency (508 to 424).

2. Of the four worst K-12 school shootings, three have occurred in Europe.

3. European countries actually have higher rates of death from public shootings that resulted in four or more murders vs the US.

Q. "To what end"

A. It will ake away the only argument you and others gun lover's have. There is no rational reason for citizens of the US to have 300 million guns. None. Do you think the guns you own are capable of inflicting harm on and defending yourself from America's Military?

Post three sources (credible ones) to prove your allegations in 1, 2 and 3.

We dont need a rational reason. We dont need any reason. What is hard to understand about that?

 

[OKTexas]

Skull Pilot said "If you don't want a gun don't buy one" yet that is so beside the point

first, who says there aren't guns in my home?

second, that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them... the nutters, the criminals, the spouse abusers, pedophiles...


most normal people understand the need to restrict gun ownership in those cases.

Where have I ever said convicted felons should have guns?

And you tell me how to stop wackos from getting guns

In fact I'm the only one here who has actually proposed a workable plan

Automatic life in prison without parole for any crime committed while possessing a firearm

That's how you stop gun crimes

i think keeping criminals and wackos from getting guns is a function of compiling readily accessible information. you might not like that, but fact is, it's pretty much the only way.... then making that information mandatory for sellers of guns to check in a national database. a waiting period after buying guns, if necessary, to get a full picture might also be appropriate.

the point is, that instead of people fighting against controls, perhaps it would be better if we dumped the NRA BS and work together to protect our society from the kinds of mass shooting we've been experiencing.

for the record, i think the participation of people who respect and understand guns is very important in achieving effective gun laws. I know how stupid some of the provisions of the AWB were and what the criteria were for defining automatic weapons making that law not only ineffective but absurd.

we can do better. we are the only civilized society that faces these problems with such regularity.

The problem is your side takes a small waiting period and turns it into 3-6 months of bullshit, as in NYC. Sorry, if you are given an inch, you take a mile. Until I can get a pistol permit, or a CCW without having to explain "why" to some government fucktard, no new laws, not an inch back.

Our side has compromised enough, your fucking turn.

first of all "my side" is finding a rational response to mass shootings. that should be all of our side.

what you *think* the waiting period will be is irrelevant. what is relevant is what the law says the waiting perior is.

No, you're pushing a bunch of feel good do nothing crap. Most folks aren't buying.

 

[boedicca]

Skull Pilot said "If you don't want a gun don't buy one" yet that is so beside the point

first, who says there aren't guns in my home?

second, that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them... the nutters, the criminals, the spouse abusers, pedophiles...


most normal people understand the need to restrict gun ownership in those cases.

How do you propose we restrict such access?

The Feds can't even set up a working website to vet ObamaCare enrollees - how are they going to design a Minority Report System to predict who might turn violent?

We already have a background check system. The problem is not more laws and regulations - the problem is proper enforcement of what we have now. Instead of worrying about Climate Change and the plethora of other nonsense upon which the government WASTES MONEY, we'd be better SERVED by having the government DO LESS and DO IT BETTER. Instead, we have government that is Too Big To Succeed and that addresses every failure by promoting yet another effort to increase the complexity of an already unmanageable system.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

and yet the moron claims to be a lawyer.

I claim nothing. I state what I am.

i'm sorry you're not smart enough to understand our legal system marty. I tried to be as nice about it as I could.

but, really, you're ignorant on this issue as you are on the issue of marriage.

but there's no cure for stupid, so i'll stop treating you like you're a thinking human being.

I'm sorry I don't live inside your narrow, biased head, but reality is not the law, and the law is supposed to serve the people, not the other way around. When you run to the law as the end all be all, you run to tyranny, you run to oppression, and you run to oligarchy.

You are nothing more than a miserable busy body, a proto-fascist who loves using government to mess with others, and a worshiper of authority, who would want nothing better then to return us to feudal times, where only people in power and with the government's backing can have the "privilege" to defend themselves.

Fuck you, and fuck all of your ilk.

piss up a rope, dear. you're too stupid for air. and like I said, i'm done trying to be nice to imbeciles like you.

You can be as mean as you want Princess Piss-and-Moan, and I will put my IQ up against yours any day of the week.

I've seen what type of idiots can get law degrees these days (if you actually have one), and I'll put my Masters of Chemical Engineering up against your JD any time.

the only thing you have a masters in, dear, is stupid.

So you get all bent out of shape when someone calls you on your claim to a degree then do the same to others ya pot meet kettle.

 

[BluesLegend]

Let's modify the Second Amendment

To what end? What the hell do you think that will accomplish? Europe has gun control laws and bans in spades and they have more shootings than the US does. Look the fact is Obama and many gun control advocates are liars, lets look at some facts.

1. In just 2015, France suffered more shooting casualties (killings and injuries) from mass public shootings than the US has suffered during Obama’s entire presidency (508 to 424).

2. Of the four worst K-12 school shootings, three have occurred in Europe.

3. European countries actually have higher rates of death from public shootings that resulted in four or more murders vs the US.

Q. "To what end"

A. It will ake away the only argument you and others gun lover's have. There is no rational reason for citizens of the US to have 300 million guns. None. Do you think the guns you own are capable of inflicting harm on and defending yourself from America's Military?

Post three sources (credible ones) to prove your allegations in 1, 2 and 3.

We dont need a rational reason. We dont need any reason. What is hard to understand about that?

If given enough rope libs will attempt to control how many squares of toilet paper you use daily.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Let's modify the Second Amendment

To what end? What the hell do you think that will accomplish? Europe has gun control laws and bans in spades and they have more shootings than the US does. Look the fact is Obama and many gun control advocates are liars, lets look at some facts.

1. In just 2015, France suffered more shooting casualties (killings and injuries) from mass public shootings than the US has suffered during Obama’s entire presidency (508 to 424).

2. Of the four worst K-12 school shootings, three have occurred in Europe.

3. European countries actually have higher rates of death from public shootings that resulted in four or more murders vs the US.

Q. "To what end"

A. It will ake away the only argument you and others gun lover's have. There is no rational reason for citizens of the US to have 300 million guns. None. Do you think the guns you own are capable of inflicting harm on and defending yourself from America's Military?

Post three sources (credible ones) to prove your allegations in 1, 2 and 3.

Lets see the Afghans the Iraqis and the Syrians all prove that armed civilians do IN FACT have the power to confront and stop a Government.

 

[OKTexas]

You read and can't comprehend. I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to believe your dense comments are not contrived. Of course you are dishonest, but maybe you even fool yourself.

People obey laws because they support them, or because they fear the consequences if they get caught.

Thus, a gun lover like you, would likely obey gun laws rather than risk the loss of them, the fines associated with not obeying the law and the possible jail or prison sentence.

Thus, licensing, registration and an accounting of the number of rounds of ammo purchased logged onto a national data base, with algorithms seeking anomalies associated with mass murderers and those on no fly lists, tied to FBI, State and Local Arrest records, including civil detentions for being a danger to themselves or others, has a good chance in saving lives and respecting a law abiding citizen's right to own, possess or have in his custody and control firearm.

And all we have to do to accomplish this is turn the US into a police state.

No thank you.

Where we stand on the dichotomy of Security and Freedom is determined by independent variables, the elephant in the room being radical Islam, but historically there are others as violent and radical: The SLA, McVeigh & unregulated militias, Street Gangs, the Unabomber and the Olympic bomber, to name but a few.

Note, murder is investigated by Motive, Opportunity and Means. Efforts to control Means and Opportunity can be effective, Motive is not easy to confirm before or after an event.

We can put our heads in the sand, and pretend the Second Amendment is the most important part of the COTUS, one that protects our nation from tyranny, but that opinion was codified for the first time by Scalia, and the blood of the innocents murdered yesterday, and everyday this year by a gun, are on his hands..

Drama queen.

We did not suspend the Constitution or any part of it in response to McVeigh or any other incident. We shouldnt start now.

Why shouldn't we discuss the viability of some parts of the COTUS, written in the 18th Century, as sufficient and necessary for a diverse nation in the 21st Century?

Should a State population be reduced by the number of ancestors of former slaves and native Americans (Art. I, Sec. I, Clause 3) and thus reduce the number of seats the state has in the H. of Reps.?

Why shouldn't POTUS have the line-item veto, we can then see the person or the persons who voted to keep or not pork in the national budget?

Let's modify the Second Amendment, to create a clear statement:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of each state to regulate, train and arm its corp shall not be infringed; nor shall any state infringe the right of its citizens to vote in any general election."​

We can add the COnstitution to things you know nothing about.
The census directed counting of some Indians and slaves by 3/5ths. It says nothing about people's ancestors.
The POTUS has the line item veto, if I recall correctly. It isnt a constitutional issue but a statutory one.
You are welcome to try amending the 2nd. Good luck.

Try reading the 14th amendment, they are not supposed to count criminals and aliens who are not eligible to vote for representation purposes, but they do, and they make no apologies for it.