Ignore the dire warnings about our lives because it’s just hysteria

[mamooth]

Then stop saying it, and start doing it. You people talk a ton, and do very little. Where is this free energy? Huh? Where's it at?

I don't know. You and the OP are the ones raving about free energy. Don't ask us to prove your fantasies.

Remember, you're talking to liberals here, members of the reality-based community. Practicality is the driving force behind liberalism, compared to ideology driving conservatism. There is no free energy. Solar power and other renewable energy doesn't happen unless you work for it. We get it, you don't to want to work for energy, and you think it just appears magically. That's not practical, so we liberals reject your attitude.

Your type has been predicting an economic catastrophe with green energy for the last decade, and that catastrophe stubbornly refuses to happen. Every time mileage standards on cars were upped, you predicted an economic catastrophe, and the catastrophe never happened. Every time pollution standards were tightened, you predicted an economic catastrophe, and the catastrophe never happened. Given your perfect record of failure, why should we pay any attention to your latest pronouncements of doom?

 

[Freewill]

If those you support hadn't stood in the fucking way for the past several decades, we'd be much further along than we are now.

Blah blah blah. You folks have been crowing about how Republicans can, couldn't, win elections but you don't want to take responsibility. Much like little children.

Good old conservatives got us into frackin that will get us energy independence, not liberals. Hell you folks hate progress so much you won't even allow a pipe line, of proven technology, to be built. Because of the left coal is going out of business. Talk about obstructing progress.

Wrong. The govt. got us into fracking not the good old conservatives. They got us into mountain top removal.
The Breakthrough Institute - US Government Role in Shale Gas Fracking History An Overview

Governement helped conservatives find and exatract gas from shale. They helped through money, technology and keeping out of the way. But without those willing to take a chance it would not have happened.

From your link:

Ultimately, Mitchell and other gas developers’ decision to spend millions of dollars and nearly two decades pioneering techniques that few thought would result in commercially viable extraction is less quixotic than it might have appeared. The federal government generously subsidized drilling for non-conventional gas throughout the 1980s and 1990s, when oil and gas were cheap. While the rise in natural gas prices in the late 1990s sparked the shale gas revolution, it was the federal non-conventional gas tax credit that made Mitchell’s experimenting possible in the early years, when there was no market for more expensive shale gas.


Giving the federal government credit where it is due takes nothing away from Mitchell, who was determined and tenacious. But the lesson of the shale gas revolution is that we should not be so quick to judge government investments in energy technology. Between 1978 and 2007, the Energy Department spent $24 billion on fossil energy research. Billions more were spent through the Gas Research Institute and non-conventional gas tax credits. Those investments were widely panned as a failure during the ’80s and early ’90s, when gas was plentiful and cheap.

 

[Freewill]

The future of energy will have nothing to do with modern conservatives. You'll be dragged kicking and screaming into the future, just like your kind always have been.

Then stop saying it, and start doing it. You people talk a ton, and do very little. Where is this free energy? Huh? Where's it at?

You keep saying "We can do it", and yet you never do. You keep saying "it will be cheaper" and yet it's always more expensive.

Name one country with more "free" or "Green energy" that does NOT pay a higher price?

The average price of electricity in the US, is between 9¢ to 12¢ per kWh.

What country has a significant investment in so-called green energy, that has a lower price?

Germany? 35¢
Spain? 30¢
Brazil? 17¢
Italy? 28¢
The UK? 20¢
Denmark? 41¢

The only exception to the rule is Iceland, and only because Iceland has an abundance of Geothermal power, which few places on the planet have.

It's not Solar. It's not Wind. It's Geothermal power. And it's not like Geothermal that's miles below the surface, which costs hundreds of millions to reach. It's Geothermal that's already close to the surface, where it can be harnessed, and used relatively cheaply.

Huge difference.

The bottom line is, you people talk a ton. Talk talk talk talk. But everyone who attempts to reach your green energy utopia, ends up not with 'free energy' or even 'cheap energy' but rather horridly expensive energy.

Top 3 countries which installed Solar energy production... Germany, Italy, Spain. Huge prices. The cheapest of those three, is nearly three times the price here in the US.

Where is this magic Utopia of green-energy bliss? You complain a ton, but never seem to put your money where your mouth is.

I'm convinced most of you people know your position is bunk... you just like using it as a political football to attack politicians you don't like.

They are developing it. If you think we'll still be using machines powered by oil forever then you're an idiot.

I have no idea. The difference is, you are arrogant enough to claim you do. You don't. None of us, knows what the future holds.

By all means... if you can create the 'back to the future' car, that runs on soda pop cans and banana peals..... shut up.... and do it.

Less talk... more rock. Do it. Shut your flaply lips blowing garlic breath all over the forum, and actually do what you claim you can do.

And by the way... I'm waiting. I'd love to have a car that can run on garbage. By all means, make it.

But you people never do. Not one time have you actually backed up your flatulence, with fact.

Instead we end up with trash like the EV1, or the Hydrogen Car. And the latest trash, is the Volt. Ford F-Series truck sold 62,000 units. Toyota Camry, 34,000 units. Chevy Volt, under 7,000 units. Oh... I made a mistake.... huge mistake, the first two are per MONTH. For the Volt, that's all the sales for 2015, year-to-date. MY BAD.... sorry.

The Chevy Volt is a joke. And no wonder. Thirty miles at best on electric, and then it operates like a normal gas guzzling car. Only with worse gas mileage than other cars at a fraction of the price, while being larger. And with a recharge time of 10 hours... filling up the ol Grand Marquis takes about 3 minutes. See you in 9 hours and 57 minutes.

"They are developing it." Are they? We heard that back in the 1980s. At what point do you show some results after 35 years of endless government spending?

At this rate, you'll have spent so much borrowed tax payer money, that by the time you come up with something, taxes will be so high on the public, no one will ever be able to afford whatever it is you blew all this money to create.

how about we use whatever it was that drove the Moon rover?

Yeah that spectacular oil-fueled vehicle that cost $38,000,000 and traveled 17 miles.

Battery fueled but what the hell let's get hostile about even this benign subject.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Then stop saying it, and start doing it. You people talk a ton, and do very little. Where is this free energy? Huh? Where's it at?

You keep saying "We can do it", and yet you never do. You keep saying "it will be cheaper" and yet it's always more expensive.

Name one country with more "free" or "Green energy" that does NOT pay a higher price?

The average price of electricity in the US, is between 9¢ to 12¢ per kWh.

What country has a significant investment in so-called green energy, that has a lower price?

Germany? 35¢
Spain? 30¢
Brazil? 17¢
Italy? 28¢
The UK? 20¢
Denmark? 41¢

The only exception to the rule is Iceland, and only because Iceland has an abundance of Geothermal power, which few places on the planet have.

It's not Solar. It's not Wind. It's Geothermal power. And it's not like Geothermal that's miles below the surface, which costs hundreds of millions to reach. It's Geothermal that's already close to the surface, where it can be harnessed, and used relatively cheaply.

Huge difference.

The bottom line is, you people talk a ton. Talk talk talk talk. But everyone who attempts to reach your green energy utopia, ends up not with 'free energy' or even 'cheap energy' but rather horridly expensive energy.

Top 3 countries which installed Solar energy production... Germany, Italy, Spain. Huge prices. The cheapest of those three, is nearly three times the price here in the US.

Where is this magic Utopia of green-energy bliss? You complain a ton, but never seem to put your money where your mouth is.

I'm convinced most of you people know your position is bunk... you just like using it as a political football to attack politicians you don't like.

They are developing it. If you think we'll still be using machines powered by oil forever then you're an idiot.

I have no idea. The difference is, you are arrogant enough to claim you do. You don't. None of us, knows what the future holds.

By all means... if you can create the 'back to the future' car, that runs on soda pop cans and banana peals..... shut up.... and do it.

Less talk... more rock. Do it. Shut your flaply lips blowing garlic breath all over the forum, and actually do what you claim you can do.

And by the way... I'm waiting. I'd love to have a car that can run on garbage. By all means, make it.

But you people never do. Not one time have you actually backed up your flatulence, with fact.

Instead we end up with trash like the EV1, or the Hydrogen Car. And the latest trash, is the Volt. Ford F-Series truck sold 62,000 units. Toyota Camry, 34,000 units. Chevy Volt, under 7,000 units. Oh... I made a mistake.... huge mistake, the first two are per MONTH. For the Volt, that's all the sales for 2015, year-to-date. MY BAD.... sorry.

The Chevy Volt is a joke. And no wonder. Thirty miles at best on electric, and then it operates like a normal gas guzzling car. Only with worse gas mileage than other cars at a fraction of the price, while being larger. And with a recharge time of 10 hours... filling up the ol Grand Marquis takes about 3 minutes. See you in 9 hours and 57 minutes.

"They are developing it." Are they? We heard that back in the 1980s. At what point do you show some results after 35 years of endless government spending?

At this rate, you'll have spent so much borrowed tax payer money, that by the time you come up with something, taxes will be so high on the public, no one will ever be able to afford whatever it is you blew all this money to create.

how about we use whatever it was that drove the Moon rover?

Yeah that spectacular oil-fueled vehicle that cost $38,000,000 and traveled 17 miles.

Battery fueled but what the hell let's get hostile about even this benign subject.

Lol then you used a battery powered vehicle in your oil argument?

 

[Freewill]

Then stop saying it, and start doing it. You people talk a ton, and do very little. Where is this free energy? Huh? Where's it at?

I don't know. You and the OP are the ones raving about free energy. Don't ask us to prove your fantasies.

Remember, you're talking to liberals here, members of the reality-based community. Practicality is the driving force behind liberalism, compared to ideology driving conservatism. There is no free energy. Solar power and other renewable energy doesn't happen unless you work for it. We get it, you don't to want to work for energy, and you think it just appears magically. That's not practical, so we liberals reject your attitude.

Your type has been predicting an economic catastrophe with green energy for the last decade, and that catastrophe stubbornly refuses to happen. Every time mileage standards on cars were upped, you predicted an economic catastrophe, and the catastrophe never happened. Every time pollution standards were tightened, you predicted an economic catastrophe, and the catastrophe never happened. Given your perfect record of failure, why should we pay any attention to your latest pronouncements of doom?

Being the OP I am telling you I was not "raving" about free energyt. The Article mentioned free energy, that is what I was referring too. The government will never allow free energy, nothing to tax. Captialism will never allow free energy, no profit.

Just like when nuclear was first proposed, too cheap to meter.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Then stop saying it, and start doing it. You people talk a ton, and do very little. Where is this free energy? Huh? Where's it at?

I don't know. You and the OP are the ones raving about free energy. Don't ask us to prove your fantasies.

Remember, you're talking to liberals here, members of the reality-based community. Practicality is the driving force behind liberalism, compared to ideology driving conservatism. There is no free energy. Solar power and other renewable energy doesn't happen unless you work for it. We get it, you don't to want to work for energy, and you think it just appears magically. That's not practical, so we liberals reject your attitude.

Your type has been predicting an economic catastrophe with green energy for the last decade, and that catastrophe stubbornly refuses to happen. Every time mileage standards on cars were upped, you predicted an economic catastrophe, and the catastrophe never happened. Every time pollution standards were tightened, you predicted an economic catastrophe, and the catastrophe never happened. Given your perfect record of failure, why should we pay any attention to your latest pronouncements of doom?

Being the OP I am telling you I was not "raving" about free energyt. The Article mentioned free energy, that is what I was referring too. The government will never allow free energy, nothing to tax. Captialism will never allow free energy, no profiff.

Just like when nuclear was first proposed, too cheap to meter.

Who is John Galt?

 

[Freewill]

They are developing it. If you think we'll still be using machines powered by oil forever then you're an idiot.

I have no idea. The difference is, you are arrogant enough to claim you do. You don't. None of us, knows what the future holds.

By all means... if you can create the 'back to the future' car, that runs on soda pop cans and banana peals..... shut up.... and do it.

Less talk... more rock. Do it. Shut your flaply lips blowing garlic breath all over the forum, and actually do what you claim you can do.

And by the way... I'm waiting. I'd love to have a car that can run on garbage. By all means, make it.

But you people never do. Not one time have you actually backed up your flatulence, with fact.

Instead we end up with trash like the EV1, or the Hydrogen Car. And the latest trash, is the Volt. Ford F-Series truck sold 62,000 units. Toyota Camry, 34,000 units. Chevy Volt, under 7,000 units. Oh... I made a mistake.... huge mistake, the first two are per MONTH. For the Volt, that's all the sales for 2015, year-to-date. MY BAD.... sorry.

The Chevy Volt is a joke. And no wonder. Thirty miles at best on electric, and then it operates like a normal gas guzzling car. Only with worse gas mileage than other cars at a fraction of the price, while being larger. And with a recharge time of 10 hours... filling up the ol Grand Marquis takes about 3 minutes. See you in 9 hours and 57 minutes.

"They are developing it." Are they? We heard that back in the 1980s. At what point do you show some results after 35 years of endless government spending?

At this rate, you'll have spent so much borrowed tax payer money, that by the time you come up with something, taxes will be so high on the public, no one will ever be able to afford whatever it is you blew all this money to create.

how about we use whatever it was that drove the Moon rover?

Yeah that spectacular oil-fueled vehicle that cost $38,000,000 and traveled 17 miles.

Battery fueled but what the hell let's get hostile about even this benign subject.

Lol then you used a battery powered vehicle in your oil argument?

Where did I argue for oil? During the terrible years of Jimmy carter I was published in the newspaper editorial section promoting that the government then should promote alternatives to oil. Here we are 40 years later with the same argument, meanwhile swimming in oil.

 

[Freewill]

Then stop saying it, and start doing it. You people talk a ton, and do very little. Where is this free energy? Huh? Where's it at?

I don't know. You and the OP are the ones raving about free energy. Don't ask us to prove your fantasies.

Remember, you're talking to liberals here, members of the reality-based community. Practicality is the driving force behind liberalism, compared to ideology driving conservatism. There is no free energy. Solar power and other renewable energy doesn't happen unless you work for it. We get it, you don't to want to work for energy, and you think it just appears magically. That's not practical, so we liberals reject your attitude.

Your type has been predicting an economic catastrophe with green energy for the last decade, and that catastrophe stubbornly refuses to happen. Every time mileage standards on cars were upped, you predicted an economic catastrophe, and the catastrophe never happened. Every time pollution standards were tightened, you predicted an economic catastrophe, and the catastrophe never happened. Given your perfect record of failure, why should we pay any attention to your latest pronouncements of doom?

Being the OP I am telling you I was not "raving" about free energyt. The Article mentioned free energy, that is what I was referring too. The government will never allow free energy, nothing to tax. Captialism will never allow free energy, no profiff.

Just like when nuclear was first proposed, too cheap to meter.

Who is John Galt?

We are.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Then stop saying it, and start doing it. You people talk a ton, and do very little. Where is this free energy? Huh? Where's it at?

I don't know. You and the OP are the ones raving about free energy. Don't ask us to prove your fantasies.

Remember, you're talking to liberals here, members of the reality-based community. Practicality is the driving force behind liberalism, compared to ideology driving conservatism. There is no free energy. Solar power and other renewable energy doesn't happen unless you work for it. We get it, you don't to want to work for energy, and you think it just appears magically. That's not practical, so we liberals reject your attitude.

Your type has been predicting an economic catastrophe with green energy for the last decade, and that catastrophe stubbornly refuses to happen. Every time mileage standards on cars were upped, you predicted an economic catastrophe, and the catastrophe never happened. Every time pollution standards were tightened, you predicted an economic catastrophe, and the catastrophe never happened. Given your perfect record of failure, why should we pay any attention to your latest pronouncements of doom?

Being the OP I am telling you I was not "raving" about free energyt. The Article mentioned free energy, that is what I was referring too. The government will never allow free energy, nothing to tax. Captialism will never allow free energy, no profiff.

Just like when nuclear was first proposed, too cheap to meter.

Who is John Galt?

We are.

 

[jon_berzerk]

our biggest hurtle will be getting past the other uses of oil

most people do not understand how much oil is used

to make our every day lives easier

There will always be some use for oil. But as far as transportation goes, its outdated.

it certainly is not outdated yet

most of the world highly depends on it

Most of the world still poops in holes in the ground too. That doesn't mean doing so isn't outdated.

the money to fight imaginary man made global warming

could be better spent ridding the number of poop holes

and make the world a more sanitary place

Global warming has nothing to do with the fact that oil is outdated as a mode of transportation. It's peak was the internal combustion engine. And we've had that 150+ years now.

we are still in the age of oil

 

[SAYIT]

The energy corporations and their 'Conservative' lapdogs continue to fight the very idea of solar power no matter how inexpensive. Same for wind. Just look at the posts concerning the Tesla car. A leading edge car, technologically and in comfort, built right here in America by American workers, yet all they can do is tell lies about it.

The problem is that the energy corporations have billions of dollars invested in fossil fuel infrastructure that could well be expensive scrap if the solar, wind, and geothermal all start producing electricity at far less cost than natural gas and coal. Add in the reactions of the large utilities to the fact that the cheap solar will allow many homeowners to be independent of the grid, and now you have a very large group of corporations battling for their existance. Reduce oil to an industrial feedstock, and the very high priced oil like the tar sands become a liability, because the people of Canada are not going to let the large corporations off the hook, and foot the cleanup bill for the awful mess that kind of mining leaves.

Provided we are not already close to a tipping point, switching as fast as possible to renewables, will be a plus for all the average citizens. Cleaner air, cleaner water, and termination of the rise of the manmade GHGs in the atmosphere will be a plus for us all.

Another whiney ass post. Nothing is stopping solar. Nothing is stopping Tesla. If they can be cost effective good for them I don't know of one conservative who is against making money, anyone working and making money.

But folks on the left sure seem to hate it. Won't let a simple pipe line be built and we have hundreds of miles of pipe line already. If it were up to you folks we would still be living in caves.

Or trees and given their way they'd soon have us back there.

 

[TheOldSchool]

There will always be some use for oil. But as far as transportation goes, its outdated.

it certainly is not outdated yet

most of the world highly depends on it

Most of the world still poops in holes in the ground too. That doesn't mean doing so isn't outdated.

the money to fight imaginary man made global warming

could be better spent ridding the number of poop holes

and make the world a more sanitary place

Global warming has nothing to do with the fact that oil is outdated as a mode of transportation. It's peak was the internal combustion engine. And we've had that 150+ years now.

we are still in the age of oil

Yes. And the next age will come sooner rather than later. Thank goodness people are working on it.

 

[jon_berzerk]

it certainly is not outdated yet

most of the world highly depends on it

Most of the world still poops in holes in the ground too. That doesn't mean doing so isn't outdated.

the money to fight imaginary man made global warming

could be better spent ridding the number of poop holes

and make the world a more sanitary place

Global warming has nothing to do with the fact that oil is outdated as a mode of transportation. It's peak was the internal combustion engine. And we've had that 150+ years now.

we are still in the age of oil

Yes. And the next age will come sooner rather than later. Thank goodness people are working on it.

it will happen when it does more then likely it will happen long before anyone notices

 

[TheOldSchool]

Most of the world still poops in holes in the ground too. That doesn't mean doing so isn't outdated.

the money to fight imaginary man made global warming

could be better spent ridding the number of poop holes

and make the world a more sanitary place

Global warming has nothing to do with the fact that oil is outdated as a mode of transportation. It's peak was the internal combustion engine. And we've had that 150+ years now.

we are still in the age of oil

Yes. And the next age will come sooner rather than later. Thank goodness people are working on it.

it will happen when it does more then likely it will happen long before anyone notices

Yeah just like no one noticed when gasoline happened 100+ years ago

 

[jon_berzerk]

the money to fight imaginary man made global warming

could be better spent ridding the number of poop holes

and make the world a more sanitary place

Global warming has nothing to do with the fact that oil is outdated as a mode of transportation. It's peak was the internal combustion engine. And we've had that 150+ years now.

we are still in the age of oil

Yes. And the next age will come sooner rather than later. Thank goodness people are working on it.

it will happen when it does more then likely it will happen long before anyone notices

Yeah just like no one noticed when gasoline happened 100+ years ago

we had been well into the age of oil by then

 

[TheOldSchool]

Global warming has nothing to do with the fact that oil is outdated as a mode of transportation. It's peak was the internal combustion engine. And we've had that 150+ years now.

we are still in the age of oil

Yes. And the next age will come sooner rather than later. Thank goodness people are working on it.

it will happen when it does more then likely it will happen long before anyone notices

Yeah just like no one noticed when gasoline happened 100+ years ago

we had been well into the age of oil by then

No we hadn't. Whale oil was the most important oil in the world until John D. Rockefeller realized the waste from refining crude had value. It replaced whale oil practically overnight. Rockefeller saved more whales than anyone in all of history.

 

[jon_berzerk]

we are still in the age of oil

Yes. And the next age will come sooner rather than later. Thank goodness people are working on it.

it will happen when it does more then likely it will happen long before anyone notices

Yeah just like no one noticed when gasoline happened 100+ years ago

we had been well into the age of oil by then

No we hadn't. Whale oil was the most important oil in the world until John D. Rockefeller realized the waste from refining crude had value. It replaced whale oil practically overnight. Rockefeller saved more whales than anyone in all of history.

that is part of the age of oil

 

[TheOldSchool]

Yes. And the next age will come sooner rather than later. Thank goodness people are working on it.

it will happen when it does more then likely it will happen long before anyone notices

Yeah just like no one noticed when gasoline happened 100+ years ago

we had been well into the age of oil by then

No we hadn't. Whale oil was the most important oil in the world until John D. Rockefeller realized the waste from refining crude had value. It replaced whale oil practically overnight. Rockefeller saved more whales than anyone in all of history.

that is part of the age of oil

Okay...

 

[jon_berzerk]

it will happen when it does more then likely it will happen long before anyone notices

Yeah just like no one noticed when gasoline happened 100+ years ago

we had been well into the age of oil by then

No we hadn't. Whale oil was the most important oil in the world until John D. Rockefeller realized the waste from refining crude had value. It replaced whale oil practically overnight. Rockefeller saved more whales than anyone in all of history.

that is part of the age of oil

Okay...

crude petroleum oil has been used for a variety of purposes for thousands of years

 

[jon_berzerk]

1854 kerosene