Illinois Firearm Identification card ruled unConstitutional in state court....yes, this is correct.

[Blues Man]

SO what?

Mass shooting accounts for less than 1% of all murders.

You think I just want to stop mass shootings? I want to stop all gun murders... and suicides.... and crimes.
By banning guns.

That's delusional and it will never happen nor will it ever be possible.

I suppose you think banning alcohol during prohibition stopped people from drinking or that banning drugs stopped people from using too, right?

 

[hadit]

SO what?

Mass shooting accounts for less than 1% of all murders.

You think I just want to stop mass shootings? I want to stop all gun murders... and suicides.... and crimes.
By banning guns.

Then what do you do when people still kill each other, ban something else?

 

[Blues Man]

SO what?

Mass shooting accounts for less than 1% of all murders.

You think I just want to stop mass shootings? I want to stop all gun murders... and suicides.... and crimes.
By banning guns.

Then what do you do when people still kill each other, ban something else?

That's exactly what he wants but he only wants to ban those things that can be used to kill if he doesn't use them

 

[hadit]

SO what?

Mass shooting accounts for less than 1% of all murders.

You think I just want to stop mass shootings? I want to stop all gun murders... and suicides.... and crimes.
By banning guns.

Then what do you do when people still kill each other, ban something else?

That's exactly what he wants but he only wants to ban those things that can be used to kill if he doesn't use them

Freedom is messy, chaotic and dangerous. It requires maturity, wisdom and responsibility. It's scary. Maybe that's why some seem so eager to trade it for a facade of security.

 

[JoeB131]

That's delusional and it will never happen nor will it ever be possible.

I suppose you think banning alcohol during prohibition stopped people from drinking or that banning drugs stopped people from using too, right?

Prohibition got voted in because people really didn't know what they were voting for. You really need to read the history of how the 18th Amendment got passed. It was presented more of an anti-immigrant measure, because those nasty, nasty Germans were all hanging around in taverns not loving America.

Damn Germans!

Anyway...

Big difference between guns and alcohol or drugs. Most of us don't want to live next to a gun nut. While you might tolerate our neighbor who has a few on the weekends, no one wants to live next to Dick Tiny polishing his guns on the front porch and frightening the children.

 

[JoeB131]

Then what do you do when people still kill each other, ban something else?

Depends on what it is.

Freedom is messy, chaotic and dangerous. It requires maturity, wisdom and responsibility. It's scary. Maybe that's why some seem so eager to trade it for a facade of security.

.
Again, guy, when I have to walk through metal detectors, past security guards, use a key card to move around the building at work because the bosses wanted protection from the guy they plan to fire next week, and have to undergo active shooter drills on a regular basis, I'm not "Free".

It is scary, though, that you never know which nut is going to suddenly start shooting things up because the voices in his head told him to, or because he hated the new Batman movie.

Maturity, Wisdom and Responsibility is making sure that crazy people and nuts don't get guns...

"Hey, how about we have them fill out a form to identify who they are so we can make sure that they aren't criminals or nuts?"

"Oh, no, that's not what a bunch of slave rapists who shot muskets 200 years ago wanted."

Now, that's crazy.

 

[JoeB131]

That's exactly what he wants but he only wants to ban those things that can be used to kill if he doesn't use them

Uh, guy, I was in the Army for 11 years, and I've probably handled more guns than you ever will. and the one thing I've learned is that some weapons should not be in civilian hands.

 

[Blues Man]

That's delusional and it will never happen nor will it ever be possible.

I suppose you think banning alcohol during prohibition stopped people from drinking or that banning drugs stopped people from using too, right?

Prohibition got voted in because people really didn't know what they were voting for. You really need to read the history of how the 18th Amendment got passed. It was presented more of an anti-immigrant measure, because those nasty, nasty Germans were all hanging around in taverns not loving America.

Damn Germans!

Anyway...

Big difference between guns and alcohol or drugs. Most of us don't want to live next to a gun nut. While you might tolerate our neighbor who has a few on the weekends, no one wants to live next to Dick Tiny polishing his guns on the front porch and frightening the children.

And in all my life I have never seen anyone polishing a gun on his front porch and I'll wager you never have either.

All you have to offer is juvenile penis references and flat out lies

 

[Blues Man]

That's exactly what he wants but he only wants to ban those things that can be used to kill if he doesn't use them

Uh, guy, I was in the Army for 11 years, and I've probably handled more guns than you ever will. and the one thing I've learned is that some weapons should not be in civilian hands.

Yeah SUUUUURRRREEEE you were

 

[hadit]

Then what do you do when people still kill each other, ban something else?

Depends on what it is.

Freedom is messy, chaotic and dangerous. It requires maturity, wisdom and responsibility. It's scary. Maybe that's why some seem so eager to trade it for a facade of security.

.
Again, guy, when I have to walk through metal detectors, past security guards, use a key card to move around the building at work because the bosses wanted protection from the guy they plan to fire next week, and have to undergo active shooter drills on a regular basis, I'm not "Free".

It is scary, though, that you never know which nut is going to suddenly start shooting things up because the voices in his head told him to, or because he hated the new Batman movie.

Maturity, Wisdom and Responsibility is making sure that crazy people and nuts don't get guns...

"Hey, how about we have them fill out a form to identify who they are so we can make sure that they aren't criminals or nuts?"

"Oh, no, that's not what a bunch of slave rapists who shot muskets 200 years ago wanted."

Now, that's crazy.

First, your pipe dream that an ID form will somehow magically prevent gun deaths is just that, a dream. Second, "you never know when a nut will flip out and start shooting" is also a fantasy, because most shooters exhibit symptoms of instability before that. Exhibit A, screaming at the sky because your polished, experienced, oh so inevitable presidential candidate was defeated not only by a community organizer, but by a reality TV star. Third, if such a nut were to snap in public and start shooting at people practicing for a softball game, it would be nice if there were other, more balanced people around who had more effective means of stopping the carnage than a cell phone.

Your paranoia is not sufficient grounds to deny normal citizens the means to defend themselves. Face reality, there are too many guns in the wild for you to eliminate them from private hands. In fact, you probably are in close proximity to guns every day, and not one of them so much as tries to hustle you, much less kill you.

I do find it ironic, though, that both sides of this argument find common ground in the reality that other people are dangerous. One side wants to deal with that by making it more difficult for people to defend themselves, whole the other wants to make it easier.

Apparently, freedom isn't for everyone.

 

[JoeB131]

First, your pipe dream that an ID form will somehow magically prevent gun deaths is just that, a dream. Second, "you never know when a nut will flip out and start shooting" is also a fantasy, because most shooters exhibit symptoms of instability before that.

But oddly THEY ARE STILL ABLE TO BUY GUNS!

Yes, I've made THIS VERY POINT, a bunch of times. Whenever there is a mass shooter, the news media talks to their friends and neighbors and we ALL FIND OUT HE WAS NUTS.

Yes they were still able to walk into a store, buy a bunch of guns that were military grade, and do a lot of havok.

Here's a crazy idea. Before you can buy a gun, we do a Background check, just like any employer would do. If the people in your life say, "Holy Shit, Bob's nuts! We can't let him have a gun", problem fucking solved.

 

[JoeB131]

Your paranoia is not sufficient grounds to deny normal citizens the means to defend themselves. Face reality, there are too many guns in the wild for you to eliminate them from private hands. In fact, you probably are in close proximity to guns every day, and not one of them so much as tries to hustle you, much less kill you.

1) we outlaw guns.
2) We beef up the ATF and pull Waco operations on the nuts who hold out.

Problem fucking solved.

 

[hadit]

Your paranoia is not sufficient grounds to deny normal citizens the means to defend themselves. Face reality, there are too many guns in the wild for you to eliminate them from private hands. In fact, you probably are in close proximity to guns every day, and not one of them so much as tries to hustle you, much less kill you.

1) we outlaw guns.
2) We beef up the ATF and pull Waco operations on the nuts who hold out.

Problem fucking solved.

What about the roving gangs of feral guns you fear so much?

 

[hadit]

First, your pipe dream that an ID form will somehow magically prevent gun deaths is just that, a dream. Second, "you never know when a nut will flip out and start shooting" is also a fantasy, because most shooters exhibit symptoms of instability before that.

But oddly THEY ARE STILL ABLE TO BUY GUNS!

Yes, I've made THIS VERY POINT, a bunch of times. Whenever there is a mass shooter, the news media talks to their friends and neighbors and we ALL FIND OUT HE WAS NUTS.

Yes they were still able to walk into a store, buy a bunch of guns that were military grade, and do a lot of havok.

Here's a crazy idea. Before you can buy a gun, we do a Background check, just like any employer would do. If the people in your life say, "Holy Shit, Bob's nuts! We can't let him have a gun", problem fucking solved.

Try to buy a gun at a gun shop. See if they do a background check.

 

[Blues Man]

First, your pipe dream that an ID form will somehow magically prevent gun deaths is just that, a dream. Second, "you never know when a nut will flip out and start shooting" is also a fantasy, because most shooters exhibit symptoms of instability before that.

But oddly THEY ARE STILL ABLE TO BUY GUNS!

Yes, I've made THIS VERY POINT, a bunch of times. Whenever there is a mass shooter, the news media talks to their friends and neighbors and we ALL FIND OUT HE WAS NUTS.

Yes they were still able to walk into a store, buy a bunch of guns that were military grade, and do a lot of havok.

Here's a crazy idea. Before you can buy a gun, we do a Background check, just like any employer would do. If the people in your life say, "Holy Shit, Bob's nuts! We can't let him have a gun", problem fucking solved.

Funny every gun I ever bought has been subject to a background check.
And no employer I ever had ever called anyone I didn't give as a reference.

Last time I checked references are not required to exercise any protected right

 

[Blues Man]

Your paranoia is not sufficient grounds to deny normal citizens the means to defend themselves. Face reality, there are too many guns in the wild for you to eliminate them from private hands. In fact, you probably are in close proximity to guns every day, and not one of them so much as tries to hustle you, much less kill you.

1) we outlaw guns.
2) We beef up the ATF and pull Waco operations on the nuts who hold out.

Problem fucking solved.

You're one of those crazies you are waning us about.

Ironic

 

[Daryl Hunt]

First, your pipe dream that an ID form will somehow magically prevent gun deaths is just that, a dream. Second, "you never know when a nut will flip out and start shooting" is also a fantasy, because most shooters exhibit symptoms of instability before that.

But oddly THEY ARE STILL ABLE TO BUY GUNS!

Yes, I've made THIS VERY POINT, a bunch of times. Whenever there is a mass shooter, the news media talks to their friends and neighbors and we ALL FIND OUT HE WAS NUTS.

Yes they were still able to walk into a store, buy a bunch of guns that were military grade, and do a lot of havok.

Here's a crazy idea. Before you can buy a gun, we do a Background check, just like any employer would do. If the people in your life say, "Holy Shit, Bob's nuts! We can't let him have a gun", problem fucking solved.

Try to buy a gun at a gun shop. See if they do a background check.

So you get turned down at the Gun Shop because you are a fruitcake. And you need to pass a background check to buy one privately and the law abiding citizens won't sell you one without the gun background check. So you skip across the state line into another state to one that has a free for all gun dispensary at the nearest Denny's out the back of a Chevy Panel Truck and load up. Then you go back across the state line with your booty and do your damage. Do you see a pattern here?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Your paranoia is not sufficient grounds to deny normal citizens the means to defend themselves. Face reality, there are too many guns in the wild for you to eliminate them from private hands. In fact, you probably are in close proximity to guns every day, and not one of them so much as tries to hustle you, much less kill you.

1) we outlaw guns.
2) We beef up the ATF and pull Waco operations on the nuts who hold out.

Problem fucking solved.

What about the roving gangs of feral guns you fear so much?

Most of those guns are purchased in states that it's legal to make a private purchase without a background check and they are transported into the Feral Gang Areas. You want crime stopped, institute universal background checks and over 60% of those guns will disappear when you aggressively enforce the background checks. Joe-Bob will think twice about selling his squirrel gun to Anna-May without a background check if he knows that he might lose his firearms rights doing it since the background check is so simple. Then again, if Joe-Bob provides Anna-May with the Gun and she does something nutzoid with it, hold him with the same responsibility you are going to with Anna-May. If a person decides to open his midnight gun sales in the Denny's and sells to anyone, it won't be long before Johnny Law will make a purchase and Joe-Bob is sent up for a very, very long time. Enforce the Background Checks is pretty simple and it won't stop honest Jim-Bob from buying his guns and ammo. But it will get Joe-Bob and Anna-May off the street.

 

[Rustic]

Your paranoia is not sufficient grounds to deny normal citizens the means to defend themselves. Face reality, there are too many guns in the wild for you to eliminate them from private hands. In fact, you probably are in close proximity to guns every day, and not one of them so much as tries to hustle you, much less kill you.

1) we outlaw guns.
2) We beef up the ATF and pull Waco operations on the nuts who hold out.

Problem fucking solved.

What about the roving gangs of feral guns you fear so much?

Most of those guns are purchased in states that it's legal to make a private purchase without a background check and they are transported into the Feral Gang Areas. You want crime stopped, institute universal background checks and over 60% of those guns will disappear when you aggressively enforce the background checks. Joe-Bob will think twice about selling his squirrel gun to Anna-May without a background check if he knows that he might lose his firearms rights doing it since the background check is so simple. Then again, if Joe-Bob provides Anna-May with the Gun and she does something nutzoid with it, hold him with the same responsibility you are going to with Anna-May. If a person decides to open his midnight gun sales in the Denny's and sells to anyone, it won't be long before Johnny Law will make a purchase and Joe-Bob is sent up for a very, very long time. Enforce the Background Checks is pretty simple and it won't stop honest Jim-Bob from buying his guns and ammo. But it will get Joe-Bob and Anna-May off the street.

Lol
Na, not really

You don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground....

 

[hadit]

First, your pipe dream that an ID form will somehow magically prevent gun deaths is just that, a dream. Second, "you never know when a nut will flip out and start shooting" is also a fantasy, because most shooters exhibit symptoms of instability before that.

But oddly THEY ARE STILL ABLE TO BUY GUNS!

Yes, I've made THIS VERY POINT, a bunch of times. Whenever there is a mass shooter, the news media talks to their friends and neighbors and we ALL FIND OUT HE WAS NUTS.

Yes they were still able to walk into a store, buy a bunch of guns that were military grade, and do a lot of havok.

Here's a crazy idea. Before you can buy a gun, we do a Background check, just like any employer would do. If the people in your life say, "Holy Shit, Bob's nuts! We can't let him have a gun", problem fucking solved.

Try to buy a gun at a gun shop. See if they do a background check.

So you get turned down at the Gun Shop because you are a fruitcake. And you need to pass a background check to buy one privately and the law abiding citizens won't sell you one without the gun background check. So you skip across the state line into another state to one that has a free for all gun dispensary at the nearest Denny's out the back of a Chevy Panel Truck and load up. Then you go back across the state line with your booty and do your damage. Do you see a pattern here?

Sure do. I see a pattern of nonsense. There are no free for all gun dispensaries anywhere. And have you noticed that gun violence always seems higher in places with strict anti-gun laws? Places with lots of legal guns seem to do better.