Immigration is Destroying America.

[Kondor3]

Those who have commented here most often on behalf of such irrationality have proven that they are.

Dunno about that

Yeah, that's why I told you. You're welcome.

Cute.

Ineffective, but cute.

The need (or lack of need) of continued large-scale immigration must be part of the conversation, in any prelude to next-round and so-called Immigration Reform.

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with exploring (or even adopting as likely) the possibility that we no longer need Immigration of any kind to the extent that we once did.

Rather timely, actually.

 

[freedombecki]

Here are what I see as the HARMS of Immigration (in America). Feel free to dispute, debate, confirm, or whatever on any one or combination of these. This should be a good, rousing debate (but please try to stay on topic)

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases

It doesn't have to be that way. Washington could grow some cajones and make Mexico pay for their forcing people to go elsewhere in the world to earn a decent living. I calculated that Mexico has approximately 178 people per square mile. And Mexico should cede property to those it excommunicates over our borders since 1960, which amounts to land for 25,000,000 new American citizens/178 = approximately 140,000 square miles lopped off their Northern border. That way, we can route their fair share of land to live with decent wages, access to water and hygienic sewage disposal without destroying our lands to accommodate former Mexican citizens excommunicated by the filthy rich barons of upper class Mexico who take wealth but do not take care of the people they take from.

Give 'em a taste of their own medicine. The border crap will stop if we have Washington grow some cajones.

Look out world, America is making a comeback! Oh, and we'll take Baja Peninsula first, for our trouble.

 

[protectionist]

No I don't get it. Why don't you go spit in their faces some more?

Why don't you wait until you have something that addresses the message in the OP, specifically the Harms of Immigration, instead of just trolling a bunch of back alley talk ? That's a rhetorical question. I'll answer it. Because you don't have anything of substance to say, and can't refute all my proven points.

I won't lower myself to use your crude metaphors, but if anyone is disrespecting anybody, it is the immigrants who are disrespecting Americans by coming here and grabbing jobs, when they know 20 million Americans are out of work, by sending America's dollars out of the country (imperialism plain & simple), and by imposing all the other harms of immigration mentioned in the 16 item list.

THEY ARE OUR GUESTS ASSHOLE Why don't you go find some of our guests and spit in their faces like a man instead of doing it on an internet forum, or are you to much of a coward to do it to them in person?

No attention being paid to the moderator's warning in Post # 988. I'd say "Go ahead. Make my day" But you already have.

"Guests" ? People taking jobs away from 20 million unemployed Americans are "guests" ? Well, I guess you're not one of those unemployed Americans are you ? > If you were, you wouldn't be calling them "guests", would you ?

 

[protectionist]

You really are Amazing Protect.,on one hand you bitterly oppose Migrants and yet you are the son of immigrants.......don't you realise how stupid that makes you sound.......good on your parents for wanting a better and productive life for themselves and their children.........What on earth must they think of you,

Who or what my ancestors are is irrelevant. I've already explained what I think about their immigrations. Only thing that matters now in 2014, is 20 million unemployed AMERICANS, and 20 million immigrants swiping the jobs they could/would/should have had, as well as all the items listed on the harms of immigration list.

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases.

It is relevant actually...but you think not!!!!!!Most of the reason you have 20 million unemployed is because you do not support local businesses but buy shoddy(shit) goods from China and elsewhere at CHEAP prices.....where wages are low....mind you I think your minimum wage is around $7 per hour????? we employ over 100 staff (even hard working migrants) the 17 year olds start at $24 per hour.

So it's a matter of what sort of Economy you want and standard of living..immigrants are not your problem but big business who support China or other low wage countries that produce inferior product..putting Americans out of work(Did you know that in the early 60's Americans purchased clothing 84% made in America,today you by 82% of your clothing manufactured from overseas..we buy over $10 million a year from the US for components because they are superior quality made by educated hard working Americans.....and our end product is sold world wide including China

Protect., you should spend your time lobbying BIG IMPORTERS instead of worrying about Immigrants who as a % are minute.steve

This is about the 3000th time someone has tried to take down my protectionist stance against immigration with an outsourcing rap.

EARTH TO LIQ: The outsourcing you speak of is only one HALF of the outsourcing problem (which I agree is bad too). It is the INTERNATIONAL outsourcing half. Sure, we know about that.
Now, just to bring you up to speed. The immigration (DOMESTIC outsourcing) I speak of is the other half. Fundamentally they are the same. They are OUTSOURCING in which unscrupulous, traitorous greed freak businesses use cheap, foreign labor to reduce their costs, and therby boost their profits.

Only difference between the 2 is that in the case of the DOMESTIC OUTSOURCING (IMMIGRATION), this is that particular part of the economy where the jobs CAN ONLY BE DONE INSIDE THE US (landscaping, janitorial, construction, hotels, etc) Got it ?

PS - I support raising the minimum wage to $20/hour, and when I owned my own business, I paid my sales people commissions that would equal $350/hour (in 2014 dollars), and they were only getting 15% of the sale.

 

[protectionist]

No I don't get it. Why don't you go spit in their faces some more?

Why don't you wait until you have something that addresses the message in the OP, specifically the Harms of Immigration, instead of just trolling a bunch of back alley talk ? That's a rhetorical question. I'll answer it. Because you don't have anything of substance to say, and can't refute all my proven points.

I won't lower myself to use your crude metaphors, but if anyone is disrespecting anybody, it is the immigrants who are disrespecting Americans by coming here and grabbing jobs, when they know 20 million Americans are out of work, by sending America's dollars out of the country (imperialism plain & simple), and by imposing all the other harms of immigration mentioned in the 16 item list.

No one just shows up in this country or any other country and "grabs jobs". They complete applications like any other job seeker, they interview like any other job seeker, then if they are the right person for the job, they are hired.

For those who immigrate here legally, they are not "disrespecting" anyone if they went through the lawful progress to come here, which makes your long winded diatribe an irrelevant waste of time and board space.

1. Lawful or unlawful, they are disrespecting the US, which they know has 20 million American unemployed.

2. They are grabbing jobs.

3. They are never the right person for the job, because they are NOT AMERICANS (while 20 million Americans are unemployed), and there are plenty of Americans skilled enough to do the jobs being offered. Only reason foreigners get the offers is because of the low wages they undercut Americans with.

 

[protectionist]

"Immigration is Destroying America"

Which Indian chief said that? It may have been said in Central America after the first wave of Spanish Christians cam through. They didn't need guns, swords, spears etc. the diseases they brought with them did the job.

Nice history lesson, but this thread is more Geography than history.

Geography - the descriptive science dealing with the surface of the earth, its political and other divisions, and the climate, plants, animals, geology, natural resources, inhabitants, and industries of the various divisions. It is usually divided into 3 main branches > Physical, Cultural, & Economic.

Geography (derivation) - Geo (Greek - earth) ; Graph (Latin - description of) Literally, description of the earth.

 

[protectionist]

"he earth’s natural resources are finite, which means that if we use them continuously, we will eventually exhaust them. This basic observation is undeniable. But another way of looking at the issue is far more relevant to assessing people’s well-being. Our exhaustible and unreproducible natural resources, if measured in terms of their prospective contribution to human welfare, can actually increase year after year, perhaps never coming anywhere near exhaustion. How can this be? The answer lies in the fact that the effective stocks of natural resources are continually expanded by the same technological developments that have fueled the extraordinary growth in living standards since the Industrial Revolution."

Natural Resources: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

This is in the conclusive part of YOUR LINK >>

"The evidence of trends in the prices of natural resources suggests that technological innovation has indeed provided continuing increases in the effective stocks of finite resources. But is there a limit to this process? Can we expect the wonders of technology to continue to wring ever more from the earth’s resources? No one knows. One observer summed up the situation as follows:"

"So far, the pessimists have been wrong in their predictions. But one thing is also clear: to conclude that there is no reason whatsoever to worry is tantamount to committing the same mistake the pessimists are often guilty of—that is the mistake of extrapolating past trends. The future is something inherently uncertain.... That the alarmists have regularly and mistakenly cried “wolf!” does not a priori imply that the woods are safe." (Neumayer 2000, p. 309)

 

[protectionist]

Top 10 Countries with Most natural Resources in the World | Most Richest Country in Natural Resources | Countries of the World

This is a relatively meaningless point in relation to the thread. Just to illustrate, the US (rated # 2) is shown to have more total natural resources than Canada (rated # 4).

Yet, the US IMports 70% of its oil, reducing its treasury, while Canada, having a surplus of oil, EXports oil, enriching their treasury. In fact, Canada is America's #1 supplier of oil.

The US also has serious fresh water shortages in multiple locations around the country, while Canada, having kept its population low (slightly more than 30 million). does not have this problem.

These 11 Cities May Completely Run Out Of Water Sooner Than You Think

 

[protectionist]

Russia Suffers From Devastating Underpopulation as Sochi Winter Olympics Begin | LifeNews.com

This thread is about the USA. Not Russia.

 

[protectionist]

None of the excuses that the frightened, hateful, anti-American fools railing against LEGAL immigration try to hide behind hold up in the face of the many pertinent FACTS that have been presented here. But then those ruled by their irrational fears are rarely swayed by FACT. It's a shame we can't expunge such weaklings from our society to make room for the more worthy (who are waiting in line in enormous numbers).

None of the excuses that the immigrant and vested interest anti-American fools railing for LEGAL immigration try to hide behind, hold up in the face of the many pertinent FACTS that have been presented here. But then those ruled by their vested interests, are rarely swayed by FACT. It's a shame we can't expunge such traitors from our society to protect our people from the Harms if Immigration.

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases.

 

[Unkotare]

"Protectionism does not protect. It does not strengthen economies or save jobs."

The Fallacy Of Protectionism

 

[Unkotare]

Jobs for skilled workers are going unfilled - Los Angeles Times


"Even with almost 13 million Americans looking for work and 8 million more settling for part-time jobs, almost half the 1,361 U.S. employers surveyed in January by ManpowerGroup say they can’t find workers to fill positions. "

Companies Say 3 Million Unfilled Positions in Skill Crisis: Jobs - Bloomberg

 

[Unkotare]

Countries with Largest Renewable Water Supply (Fresh) - World Top Ten

 

[protectionist]

Here are what I see as the HARMS of Immigration (in America). Feel free to dispute, debate, confirm, or whatever on any one or combination of these. This should be a good, rousing debate (but please try to stay on topic)

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases

It doesn't have to be that way. Washington could grow some cajones and make Mexico pay for their forcing people to go elsewhere in the world to earn a decent living. I calculated that Mexico has approximately 178 people per square mile. And Mexico should cede property to those it excommunicates over our borders since 1960, which amounts to land for 25,000,000 new American citizens/178 = approximately 140,000 square miles lopped off their Northern border. That way, we can route their fair share of land to live with decent wages, access to water and hygienic sewage disposal without destroying our lands to accommodate former Mexican citizens excommunicated by the filthy rich barons of upper class Mexico who take wealth but do not take care of the people they take from.

Give 'em a taste of their own medicine. The border crap will stop if we have Washington grow some cajones.

Look out world, America is making a comeback! Oh, and we'll take Baja Peninsula first, for our trouble.

Great post. Rarely does anyone in immigration debates even mention this perhaps most important point of all. That much, if not most, of the illegal immigration problem is the result of deliberate imperialism of America's wealth by Mexico's monopolist plutocrats, who need to be held accountable.

Raking in so many Billions$$ per year from remittances$$ + welfare payments, these US dollars have become Mexico's # 1 source of income, and it's only because the US has not held their feet to the fire over it. And as long as the US allows it, Mexico will continue to sack the US for this loot ($25 Billion/year in remittances alone).

So what has this MESS south of our border become (besides a cancer to us in the USA) ? I'd say Mexico, in all of its chaos and disorganization has become like a whale lost in a bay, but with plenty of fish to eat, and nobody quite sure what to do about it. Well, whales can be driven back out to sea by large ships. Only the effort is necessary.

Instead of a real effort to stop Mexico's relentless plunder of the USA, we have a spineless government that refuses to deal with the problem. In fact, the only US president I can recall actually doing anything about it was Eisenhower who presided over Operation Wetback in 1954, when US agents went around house to house in Southwestern states, hunting illegal aliens down and driving them out, and arresting them.

Huge numbers were deported, and more huge numbers fled back to Mexico on their own. In contrast, now we have the do-nothing (on this issue) Congress and President Obama, whose answer to the Mexican invasion was to invite the leader of the invasion, Mexican President Calderon to Washington DC, so he could scold the US Congress for not being complicit enough in helping Mexico invade the US, and pillage its economy and tax treasuries. Sheeeeeshh !!

Well, after hundreds of thousands of US military members sacrificed their lives to prevent invasions of the US from Japan and Nazi Germany, one would think that we would at least try to stop this massive attack on our nation, no ?
So what actually should be done about this then ? I would propose the following:

We should give Carlos Slim and all the rest of his plutocrat rat pack 3 months to break up the monopolies, and initiate reforms that would open Mexico's economy to Mexican small business entrepreneurs, who then could hire millions of Mexicans to good jobs. This would also create some badly needed respect for Mexican authority, and help to spur public cooperation in stamping out the drug gangs.

This would have to be backed up by a stern warning that non-cooperation would result in US military action against Mexico which would likely result in the complete conquest of Mexico, and establishment of it as a US territory or state, under full US control. A buildup of US military along the Mexican border including fleets of US warships along both Mexican coasts would be in order as well, to give teeth to the demand.

On the US side, the 14th amendment should be revised to abolish birth citizenship. The Mexican border double fence (mandated by the 2006 Secure Fence Act) should be fully built, as it was supposed to have been done by now.
And President Obama's joking remark about adding a moat filled with alligators, wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Congress, with tax increases on the US employee super rich (which 3/4 of the American people support), should hire thousands of new ICE agents, CBP officers, immigration court officials, and build more immigration jails, and engage in a mass deportation program, which can easily be done as long as the will and resources are allocated to it.
This should also include a crackdown of illegal employers of illegal aliens, with arrests based on the 1986 IRCA law, as well as arrests of US mayors (starting with Michael Bloomberg of New York) and city council members passing illegal sanctuary laws, and illegally giving sanctuary to illegal aliens. In addition, vested interest pro-immigration groups like the US Democratic Party, many churches, unions, and ethnocentrist organizations like La Raza, LULAC, MALDEF, et al should be investigated for their roles, and held accountable for any/all illegal activities on their parts.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-...nvasion-of-the-united-states-1950-2012-a.html

 

[Unkotare]

Most Powerful Countries in the World - Top Ten

 

[Kondor3]

Jobs for skilled workers are going unfilled - Los Angeles Times


"Even with almost 13 million Americans looking for work and 8 million more settling for part-time jobs, almost half the 1,361 U.S. employers surveyed in January by ManpowerGroup say they can’t find workers to fill positions. "

Companies Say 3 Million Unfilled Positions in Skill Crisis: Jobs - Bloomberg

Fine. Start (re-)training Americans to do those jobs, rather than going to the outside?

 

[Unkotare]

We are powerful, spacious, blessed with natural resources, and possessed of a culture that has and does draw and assimilate the best and the brightest legal immigrants from around the world. America's success is the success of immigration, and we have an enormous capacity for more.

 

[Unkotare]

Jobs for skilled workers are going unfilled - Los Angeles Times


"Even with almost 13 million Americans looking for work and 8 million more settling for part-time jobs, almost half the 1,361 U.S. employers surveyed in January by ManpowerGroup say they can’t find workers to fill positions. "

Companies Say 3 Million Unfilled Positions in Skill Crisis: Jobs - Bloomberg

Fine. Start (re-)training Americans to do those jobs, rather than going to the outside?

And in the meantime?

 

[Unkotare]

""We know by experience that erecting obstacles to trade will make things worse," says Pascal Lamy, director-general of the World Trade Organisation (WTO).
"At times of global economic crisis, enemy number one is isolationism.
"Protectionism can only exacerbate the situation, as it did after the Great Wall Street Crash of 1929," he adds."

BBC NEWS | Business | The dangers of trade protectionism

 

[Unkotare]

Remember this?

The Dangerous Nonsense of Protectionism


"As we unravel the tangled web of protectionist argument, we should keep our eye on two essential points: (1) protectionism means force in restraint of trade; and (2) the key is what happens to the consumer. Invariably, we will find that the protectionists are out to cripple, exploit, and impose severe losses not only on foreign consumers but especially on Americans. And since each and every one of us is a consumer, this means that protectionism is out to mulct all of us for the benefit of a specially privileged, subsidized few—and an inefficient few at that: people who cannot make it in a free and unhampered market."