In 2016... What the hell does "Gay" even mean?

[longknife]

I am serious here... what does it actually mean this day and age? Is a person "gay" because they are attracted to the same gender? Or do they have to act upon their attraction and have a homosexual relationship to qualify? If someone acknowledges that someone of the same gender is sexually appealing, does that make them gay? What if you are physically attracted to both genders? Are you gay by default? Do you have to engage in actual sexual relationships and how far can you go without being actually gay? What if you get turned on by making yourself intentionally attractive to same gender but you're not interested in having sexual relations? Like a gay tease? Is that gay? Does that make you a gay person? What if you enjoy the mystique of the closet gay lifestyle, slipping around and frequenting gay bars to have promiscuous sex with same gender but you are happily married to the opposite gender? Does that mean you're gay or straight? What if you are completely heterosexual but you enjoy entertaining people dressed as a transgender? Are you gay then? What if you are straight but attracted to same gender transsexuals? What if you don't have sex at all and you love all people of both genders and see them as equally appealing sexually? Is that gay? What if you have been straight your entire life, always knew you were straight, never had any desire to be with the same gender physically and you get drunk one night and have homosexual relations... are you made gay by that one-off? What if you're in high school and you don't really know what you are and you experiment with homosexual relations but decide you didn't like it... can you become "ungay" or are you forever gay?

Just curious... it seems we've painted ourselves into a rather bigoted corner.

What the hell happened to "lighthearted and carefree"?

 

[Skylar]

The phrase "homosexual" is probably racist now. They use Cis or Xi or something now. "Homosexual" is so 1990s bro.

Some idiots like Miley Cyrus don't even acknowledge homo or hetero. They just say sex is sex and no label matters they just do what feels good.

There is no more male or female or hetero or homo man.

It's just 1 person and 1 other person doing shit. Whatevs.

Which is the essence of my argument. What IS "Gay" in 2016?

Gay is homosexual. Gay is not bi or pan or trans or anything but gay.

 

[Skylar]

I am serious here... what does it actually mean this day and age? Is a person "gay" because they are attracted to the same gender? Or do they have to act upon their attraction and have a homosexual relationship to qualify? If someone acknowledges that someone of the same gender is sexually appealing, does that make them gay? What if you are physically attracted to both genders? Are you gay by default? Do you have to engage in actual sexual relationships and how far can you go without being actually gay? What if you get turned on by making yourself intentionally attractive to same gender but you're not interested in having sexual relations? Like a gay tease? Is that gay? Does that make you a gay person? What if you enjoy the mystique of the closet gay lifestyle, slipping around and frequenting gay bars to have promiscuous sex with same gender but you are happily married to the opposite gender? Does that mean you're gay or straight? What if you are completely heterosexual but you enjoy entertaining people dressed as a transgender? Are you gay then? What if you are straight but attracted to same gender transsexuals? What if you don't have sex at all and you love all people of both genders and see them as equally appealing sexually? Is that gay? What if you have been straight your entire life, always knew you were straight, never had any desire to be with the same gender physically and you get drunk one night and have homosexual relations... are you made gay by that one-off? What if you're in high school and you don't really know what you are and you experiment with homosexual relations but decide you didn't like it... can you become "ungay" or are you forever gay?

Just curious... it seems we've painted ourselves into a rather bigoted corner.

What the hell happened to "lighthearted and carefree"?

Probably sitting next to the pile of sticks known as faggots.

 

[Montrovant]

What does being a virgin have to do with anything? You realize that one can be sexually attracted to a person without having sex with them, don't you?

I was pretty clear. If a woman is only attracted to other women, she is gay. If she has been attracted to men in the past, but no longer is, then she still fits the qualifications of being gay. I never said anything about 'if a person has ever'. That's you making things up.

For someone who feels the need to try and make fun of me providing simple definitions of basic sexual orientations, you sure don't seem able to grasp what they mean.

So, by your definition, you can be gay then not be gay and then be gay again? And this all resides on what is happening in the moment... if today, I happen to find a male who I am attracted to sexually, even if we never have sex, I am a gay man... but if I am sexually attracted to a woman tomorrow, I am not gay anymore?

Or is it, once you have a homosexual thought, you become gay from then on? You can fuck chicks exclusively the rest of your life and you'll still be gay because you had that one time you felt sexually attracted to the same gender? I'm just finding your definition very confusing.

Technically yes, but I don't think that people's sexual appetites change that drastically moment to moment. But yes, I do think a person can be gay at one point in their life and not be gay at another point.

I don't think that a gay man is going to, out of the blue, stop desiring other men and start desiring women. I don't know why you would take it to that extreme as though people usually change sexual orientation day to day. However, just as a person might find different things attractive in a partner when they are a teen and when they are middle aged, so I think some people might find only the opposite sex attractive as a teen but end up finding both sexes attractive at middle age. Does that mean they were always bisexual, or did their orientation change? I can't say for certain. I think a change in orientation is possible, but perhaps it's almost always someone who is truly bisexual but couldn't admit it to themselves who changes orientation.

 

[Montrovant]

Clearly we disagree about what it means to say you find someone sexually attractive. I am pretty confident that Asclepias uses the same meaning I do, and that is why he continues to question your sexuality (seriously or in jest).

No, I think he continues to question my sexuality because he is a bigot. I don't think you are a bigot... you might be a bit homophobic though. I think we're closer to being on the same page than Assclap and myself.

Again, I can find someone sexually attractive but not desire them sexually.... male or female. We all have our personal sexual desires... that thing that turns us on sexually... and it varies from person to person. Some men like women who are dressed classy with hair done up, etc.... some like the co-ed cheerleader with white socks and pigtails... some like smoldering and sultry... some like perky and smiley... different strokes for different folks... some perfectly heterosexual males might actually be sexually stimulated at the sight of another man in drag! Does that make them "gay" or is it just their fetish? Who am I to judge?

My OP point is... it's 2016... why are we still trying to define sexuality in such a closed-minded and boxed-in way? Why can't we all just be who we are sexually without this labeling and categorizing? Are we not yet civilized enough? Are there still too many bigots like Assclap? And what can we do about that as a society?

Well, OK, at this point there's probably not much confusion. I should have said I think the conflict started because Asclepias uses the phrase as I do.

We should skip that phrase because I don't think we will come to any agreement on how it should be defined. However, I agree, what someone finds attractive will vary, sometimes greatly, from person to person. I don't think that judgement is necessarily the reason for using terms like gay or straight. As with many other labels, they are a way to simplify things, or create a sense of clarity (even if it is false). If someone is straight, you have a basis for deciding whether or not they might find you attractive. If you go to a gay bar, you can make a guess at the reaction you'd get if you hit on someone of the opposite gender.

We're not going to get rid of labels. They may change, certainly sexual orientation has gained many new labels in recent years, but people like to use them. I don't know that we can, or even should, do anything about the fact of labelling, and I think that the stigma attached to a label like gay is already being chipped away. I think the important thing isn't to worry about labels so much as the way such labels are used.

I'm not sure why some people want to see sexuality in a boxed-in way. For some it may be a desire for simplicity, for others a need to define people as the same or different from themselves. For most people, though, it's probably just an easy way to describe sexual desires. I am straight rather than I only am attracted to members of the opposite gender, I am gay rather than I am only attracted to members of the same gender.

 

[Asclepias]

There is nothing wrong or 'homosexual' about being able to appreciate the beauty of another person's physical atributes of the same gender & doesn't qualify as being gay or homosexual or even having such tendencies.
I think a true homosexual person is one that is only sexually attracted to the same gender. BUT there are many out there that 'claim' they are gay, but are really only following the crowd because it's kind of the 'big' thing to do. A type of rebellion.


But, am I the only one that remembers the word 'gay' meant happy? And homosexuals were called queer?

Who said anything was wrong with it? I just find it odd that he would find another man sexually attractive and not be gay or bi. Yes I remember when gay meant happy. I never heard the word queer until I was on this site.

Really? What about fag or faggot? All terms used to indicate a homosexual up to around late 70's, early 80's maybe?

Really. Yes I have heard fag. We would call people that all the time to make fun of them.

yes, I (we) have done the same..........but did you also know the term 'fag' is or was used in UK for cigarette? just askin

To the OP, I can understand your dilemma over this, because the term is being used in a broad sense like an 'umbrella'. There is differences between sexual identity (man trapped in a womans body & visa versa) and sexual preferences(being sexually attracted to same gender) and whatever other myriad differences people keep coming up with that center around 'themselves' in a sexual context. There are huge differences to each, but are grouped under the 'gay' label.
Some people are just too closed minded in that respect & think everything is either black or white & not willing to acknowledge any gray areas.

There are some who just like to play or pretend to either dress up or act on some urges, yet at the end of the day are still hetero. Somehow living out those fantasies even in small ways, makes them feel better for whatever psychological reason, but when it comes right down to it, the opposite gender is what makes them orgasmic. Just because a man likes the feel of satin or silk on his skin or a woman likes denim, doesn't really qualify them as being 'gay', they just have a higher sensitivity for touch.
I've also seen a few men who are 'effeminate' in many ways, enough to make you wonder, yet they still are aroused by women. And the same in reverse. Are they gay? NO.....but many think so & classify them as such.

I'm a woman, I can look at another woman's body and my mind may even think of sex because of it, but one thing is for sure she just isn't built with the right equipment. Does that make me lesbian? Or bi? I don't think so because if I were to see a gorgeous hunk of a guy and a 'sexy' woman side by side....I'm going for the guy thank you and not have second thoughts about her.
These all may be 'fine lines', but are very important factors when determining what is really gay or not

Yes I knew it was also a cigarette in Australia as well.

I think like the OP you may be bi on whatever sliding scale there is that determines that.

 

[Asclepias]

When someone starts asking what it means to be gay, or at what point a person is gay or straight, providing answers to that seems appropriate. You, apparently, think that doing so calls for being a sarcastic asshole.

Maybe if you didn't start a thread asking what gay means you wouldn't see people providing definitions of sexual orientations.

If you know what it means to be gay, why the thread? If you don't, why be a dick when an answer is provided?

Sorry, maybe the thread OP just went completely over your head?

Watch it there, you talked about a dick... Asclepias says that makes you GAY!

I didn't need a definition of what makes someone homosexual. That was not the intent or purpose of the OP. I hoped to have a mature adult conversation about sexual attitudes in the 21st century. A few people seemed to have gotten that point and have contributed wonderfully. A few others have taken the opportunity to flood the thread with juvenile insults and their closet-homophobia.

I think "gay" is quickly becoming an obsolete term... it's the new "colored people". It seems to be more of a source of divisiveness and vehicle for prejudice than any good it does to have around as a definition of individual sexuality. After all, our sexuality may change over time.... maybe not Assclap's... but many younger generation people... they are more "pansexual" or "metrosexual" than "gay." ....Don't fence me in! ...You know what I am saying? I think there is a sexual liberation happening with the younger generation and we're going to see less and less of the "he's gay" and "she's bi" stuff... it's not going to matter. People are people... they are who they are.

When you talk about dick combined with saying you find men sexually attractive like you did thats the only time I think you are gay or bi.

 

[Asclepias]

Clearly we disagree about what it means to say you find someone sexually attractive. I am pretty confident that Asclepias uses the same meaning I do, and that is why he continues to question your sexuality (seriously or in jest).

No, I think he continues to question my sexuality because he is a bigot. I don't think you are a bigot... you might be a bit homophobic though. I think we're closer to being on the same page than Assclap and myself.

Again, I can find someone sexually attractive but not desire them sexually.... male or female. We all have our personal sexual desires... that thing that turns us on sexually... and it varies from person to person. Some men like women who are dressed classy with hair done up, etc.... some like the co-ed cheerleader with white socks and pigtails... some like smoldering and sultry... some like perky and smiley... different strokes for different folks... some perfectly heterosexual males might actually be sexually stimulated at the sight of another man in drag! Does that make them "gay" or is it just their fetish? Who am I to judge?

My OP point is... it's 2016... why are we still trying to define sexuality in such a closed-minded and boxed-in way? Why can't we all just be who we are sexually without this labeling and categorizing? Are we not yet civilized enough? Are there still too many bigots like Assclap? And what can we do about that as a society?

What appears to turn you on is men that you find sexually attractive. Like I said before sexual orientation is on a sliding scale. You have obviously moved along the scale to where you register as gay or bi. There is no shame in that.

 

[Boss]

...but perhaps it's almost always someone who is truly bisexual but couldn't admit it to themselves who changes orientation.

What is this "admit it to themselves" thing that keeps getting mentioned. You've done it and Assclap did it... and I don't understand. Why would you have sexual desires and not admit them to yourself? How does that work? I can see how you wouldn't admit your secret desires to others but to yourself? Seems like it's self-evident that IF you have said desires, you are admitting it to yourself, else, what do you call the desire?

Technically yes, but I don't think that people's sexual appetites change that drastically moment to moment. But yes, I do think a person can be gay at one point in their life and not be gay at another point.

How do you know about people's sexual appetites and what difference does the appetite make with regard to attraction? You started by saying that it's not about anything more than attraction to the same gender, now it seems to be about an appetite for sex. Seems like you are jumping around quite a bit on what constitutes gayness.

I think that you're discovering it's not as easy to define as you thought but you want to make it easy so you don't have to admit my point. That's cool, I just hope others here are seeing the same thing I am.

Again, the point of the OP is, why do we need to define these orientations at all in 2016? Can't we just accept people as they are without categorizing what they are? Why do certain men have this hang up with acknowledging the sexual attractiveness in other men? Is that homophobia? Women don't seem to have that problem. As time goes by, it seems clearer and clearer that these labels we apply are simply a way to put people in stereotypical boxes and discriminate against them.

 

[Boss]

When you talk about dick combined with saying you find men sexually attractive like you did thats the only time I think you are gay or bi.

I didn't "talk about dick" ...I said you were being a total dick. And you ARE! And no it wasn't the only time you said that about me... you first said it because I told you that I find some men sexually attractive.

 

[Syriusly]

I am serious here... what does it actually mean this day and age? Is a person "gay" because they are attracted to the same gender? Or do they have to act upon their attraction and have a homosexual relationship to qualify? If someone acknowledges that someone of the same gender is sexually appealing, does that make them gay? What if you are physically attracted to both genders? Are you gay by default? Do you have to engage in actual sexual relationships and how far can you go without being actually gay? What if you get turned on by making yourself intentionally attractive to same gender but you're not interested in having sexual relations? Like a gay tease? Is that gay? Does that make you a gay person? What if you enjoy the mystique of the closet gay lifestyle, slipping around and frequenting gay bars to have promiscuous sex with same gender but you are happily married to the opposite gender? Does that mean you're gay or straight? What if you are completely heterosexual but you enjoy entertaining people dressed as a transgender? Are you gay then? What if you are straight but attracted to same gender transsexuals? What if you don't have sex at all and you love all people of both genders and see them as equally appealing sexually? Is that gay? What if you have been straight your entire life, always knew you were straight, never had any desire to be with the same gender physically and you get drunk one night and have homosexual relations... are you made gay by that one-off? What if you're in high school and you don't really know what you are and you experiment with homosexual relations but decide you didn't like it... can you become "ungay" or are you forever gay?

Just curious... it seems we've painted ourselves into a rather bigoted corner.

Homosexual=gay= someone attracted to the same gender
Heterosexual= straight= someone attracted to the opposite gender.

Never complicated for me- I am straight- and I didn't have to wait until I had sex to be straight.

 

[Boss]

What appears to turn you on is men that you find sexually attractive. Like I said before sexual orientation is on a sliding scale. You have obviously moved along the scale to where you register as gay or bi. There is no shame in that.

There is shame in the fact that you continue to display your homophobic bigotry.

 

[Asclepias]

When you talk about dick combined with saying you find men sexually attractive like you did thats the only time I think you are gay or bi.

I didn't "talk about dick" ...I said you were being a total dick. And you ARE!

Weird choice of word to use considering the topic. Obviously you feel that its natural to find other men attractive but yet you cant give me a reason for doing it other than you are gay or bi. Just because thats your orientation doesnt make it natural for me.

 

[Asclepias]

What appears to turn you on is men that you find sexually attractive. Like I said before sexual orientation is on a sliding scale. You have obviously moved along the scale to where you register as gay or bi. There is no shame in that.

There is shame in the fact that you continue to display your homophobic bigotry.

I think you are a latent homosexual or you are bi. Have you ever talked to a gay guy? They have told me they can tell when someone is in the closet.

 

[Bonzi]

It means your happy.
Haven't you noticed the happiest people are homosexuals?

 

[Asclepias]

I am serious here... what does it actually mean this day and age? Is a person "gay" because they are attracted to the same gender? Or do they have to act upon their attraction and have a homosexual relationship to qualify? If someone acknowledges that someone of the same gender is sexually appealing, does that make them gay? What if you are physically attracted to both genders? Are you gay by default? Do you have to engage in actual sexual relationships and how far can you go without being actually gay? What if you get turned on by making yourself intentionally attractive to same gender but you're not interested in having sexual relations? Like a gay tease? Is that gay? Does that make you a gay person? What if you enjoy the mystique of the closet gay lifestyle, slipping around and frequenting gay bars to have promiscuous sex with same gender but you are happily married to the opposite gender? Does that mean you're gay or straight? What if you are completely heterosexual but you enjoy entertaining people dressed as a transgender? Are you gay then? What if you are straight but attracted to same gender transsexuals? What if you don't have sex at all and you love all people of both genders and see them as equally appealing sexually? Is that gay? What if you have been straight your entire life, always knew you were straight, never had any desire to be with the same gender physically and you get drunk one night and have homosexual relations... are you made gay by that one-off? What if you're in high school and you don't really know what you are and you experiment with homosexual relations but decide you didn't like it... can you become "ungay" or are you forever gay?

Just curious... it seems we've painted ourselves into a rather bigoted corner.

Homosexual=gay= someone attracted to the same gender
Heterosexual= straight= someone attracted to the opposite gender.

Never complicated for me- I am straight- and I didn't have to wait until I had sex to be straight.

Question. Can you look at a random guy and know he is sexy to women? I cant but Boss seems to think its something natural.

 

[Syriusly]

I think gay is slang for homosexual. How did you get so confused about what gay means?

Well okay.. so what makes one a "homosexual" then? Do you have to engage in homosexual relations? Or is it just the simple attraction that makes you gay? And what if you are some combination of both? Or any of the myriad of examples I presented? Where do we actually define this "gayness" thing?

You should invest in a dictionary or poll people that may be gay. I think you have worked yourself into a lather over this. May I ask why you are so bent out of shape over it? Did you meet a guy that turned you on or something?

Perhaps it is something about reading text as opposed to hearing the spoken word but for some reason you've interpreted my comments to be "bent out of shape" and I can only assure you that is not the case. I am not the least bit "bent out of shape" or "worked into a lather" over this. I am merely positing a topic for discussion among adult people on the forum and you're welcome to interject your opinion.

Since you asked.. I often meet men who I consider sexually attractive. They don't arouse me sexually but I can see how they would arouse a female or someone who is attracted to sexy males. I'm personally attracted to sexy females but I can acknowledge the sexual appeal of another individual. Does that make me gay?

That is odd to me- but okay lets go with that. I certainly see men who appear 'handsome' to me- say George Clooney- but I have never considered any man to be "sexually attractive."

Do you harbor any desire to have sex with the men you find sexually attractive? If you do- and you also find women to be equally sexually attractive to you- then if you absolutely need to indentify yourself, then I would say you are bi-sexual.

If you don't- you are just a hetero man who can recognize male beauty.

 

[Boss]

We're not going to get rid of labels. They may change, certainly sexual orientation has gained many new labels in recent years, but people like to use them. I don't know that we can, or even should, do anything about the fact of labelling, and I think that the stigma attached to a label like gay is already being chipped away. I think the important thing isn't to worry about labels so much as the way such labels are used.

I don't know, we seemed to have gotten rid of the N-word and "colored people" without any trouble.

As we can see by Assclap's responses, the labels DO matter... they are a way to attack and denigrate someone because you think it's insulting or offensive.

 

[ChrisL]

I am serious here... what does it actually mean this day and age? Is a person "gay" because they are attracted to the same gender? Or do they have to act upon their attraction and have a homosexual relationship to qualify? If someone acknowledges that someone of the same gender is sexually appealing, does that make them gay? What if you are physically attracted to both genders? Are you gay by default? Do you have to engage in actual sexual relationships and how far can you go without being actually gay? What if you get turned on by making yourself intentionally attractive to same gender but you're not interested in having sexual relations? Like a gay tease? Is that gay? Does that make you a gay person? What if you enjoy the mystique of the closet gay lifestyle, slipping around and frequenting gay bars to have promiscuous sex with same gender but you are happily married to the opposite gender? Does that mean you're gay or straight? What if you are completely heterosexual but you enjoy entertaining people dressed as a transgender? Are you gay then? What if you are straight but attracted to same gender transsexuals? What if you don't have sex at all and you love all people of both genders and see them as equally appealing sexually? Is that gay? What if you have been straight your entire life, always knew you were straight, never had any desire to be with the same gender physically and you get drunk one night and have homosexual relations... are you made gay by that one-off? What if you're in high school and you don't really know what you are and you experiment with homosexual relations but decide you didn't like it... can you become "ungay" or are you forever gay?

Just curious... it seems we've painted ourselves into a rather bigoted corner.

Why do you care so much to start a thread about it?

 

[Asclepias]

We're not going to get rid of labels. They may change, certainly sexual orientation has gained many new labels in recent years, but people like to use them. I don't know that we can, or even should, do anything about the fact of labelling, and I think that the stigma attached to a label like gay is already being chipped away. I think the important thing isn't to worry about labels so much as the way such labels are used.

I don't know, we seemed to have gotten rid of the N-word and "colored people" without any trouble.

As we can see by Assclap's responses, the labels DO matter... they are a way to attack and denigrate someone because you think it's insulting or offensive.

Typically when someone identifies themselves as gay who am I to get rid of the label they chose?