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There is no equality of opportunity.
Guy A: Grows up in a mansion, silver spoon, two loving parents, healthy diet and no exposure to criminal elements.
Guy B: Grows up in a crackhouse, rusty spoon, crack whore mother and father abandonment, dryer lint diet and complete immersion in criminal elements.
You're telling me Guy A and Guy B have equal opportunity? LMAO! You guys are too funny sometimes ...
Thomas Sowell wrote about this several times. The problem is that leftists have been taught to understand certain phrases in a completely different way than they're actually meant, and to believe that the purpose of laws and government is not to set boundaries for human society, but to correct perceived flaws in the universe, as though humans have the ability to do so.
In this case, you are misunderstanding the phrase "equality of opportunity" to mean being exactly the same in the sense of the universe making everyone exactly alike, and assuming that it is somehow society's job to make up for the fact that humans are not extruded from a cookie cutter somewhere. But "equality of opportunity" was never meant that way. We cannot control the cosmos, and never will. Equality of opportunity refers to those things we can control, such as applying human laws equally to everyone and producing a society that allows everyone to achieve what they can with whatever the universe has given them. And yes, we ARE imperfect at doing this, but in far too many cases, this is because we are trying to perfect the universe, rather than perfect society.
I'm aware of that. It bothers me when people act like everyone is 100% in control of their own destiny, that it's all entirely up to you and that you should feel bad if you're not as rich as some other guy, particularly when that other guy had massive advantages over you simply by virtue of his birth. It's like having to run the 100 m with a 45 lb. weight tied around your right ankle, while the other guy gets a bicycle. Unless he somehow crashes and cracks his skull, he is going to win that race.
Working hard is obviously better than slacking off for becoming successful, but it will only get you so far.
See, you've got several fallacies in there, so it's no wonder you're confused and bitter.
First of all, who's acting like people are 100% in control of their own destiny? Conservatives are well aware that some things are beyond people's control. The difference is that we're aware that those things are beyond EVERYONE'S control, including those in government, and attempting to control them via legislation is only going to create worse problems.
Second of all, it's not conservatives suggesting that people should feel bad because someone else is richer. It's actually leftists who encourage people to feel jealous and vengeful toward those who have more material goods, so that they will be given more power to try to change things beyond human control. It is true that conservatives believe that people should focus their attentions on their own efforts and own lives; and yes, we DO think people should feel bad when they aren't trying their best to achieve what they want.
Third, this isn't a race, or a competition at all, which is one of the biggest fallacies of the left. We're not animals living on the savannah, engaging in survival of the fittest, where the gazelle caught by one lion means that other lions starve. We're a society of thinking, reasoning beings, capable of producing more than enough success to go around to everyone, particularly when you consider that not everyone defines "success" in the same way.
Finally, this zero-sum fallacy of the left is particularly pernicious, in that it motivates THE LEFT to tie weights around one guy's ankle while riffling through his pockets for money to buy the other guy a bicycle.
You've made an alarming number of assumptions regarding my perspective in life, which I resent.
I'm aware of that. It bothers me when people act like everyone is 100% in control of their own destiny, that it's all entirely up to you and that you should feel bad if you're not as rich as some other guy, particularly when that other guy had massive advantages over you simply by virtue of his birth.
Everybody is in charge of their own destiny, but that doesn't guarantee financial success.
Lower income people are generally less responsible. They don't pay attention in school, they don't have the inclination to work hard, they don't understand the first thing about finances, so of course many of them fail in life. Is that because they were born on first base instead of third, or is it because they decided to have their second child at the age of 18 and go on some social programs?
Instead of concentrating on being rich, it's better to concentrate on just being better and making decisions to better yourself.
Years ago I used to have a part-time job teaching music. From time to time, some student would walk into the studio all bummed out. They were completely upset because they went to some bar or someplace and seen a great guitarist. I told them that it's just a fact of life. No matter how hard you try, there is always going to be somebody with more money, a bigger D, and can play better guitar than you. I would tell them the only guitarist they have to be better than is the guitarist that was here last week at this very time.
It never failed. They eventually get a new attitude about being a musician and continued to just be better than they were the week before. That's what needs to be done with people who didn't start out in life with a lot of money.
Well that's fine. That's reasonable. What I'm saying is, sometimes the guy who's worse off than you isn't just a lazy slob or an idiot. Sometimes they started out with a lot less than you did, or just had shitty luck. The people act like those of modest means are just losers are the ones I am talking about.
And some people who are poor and need government assistance have just hit a rough patch and don't want to make a career out of it. In fact, I'd say the overwhelming majority are that way.
I'm aware of that. It bothers me when people act like everyone is 100% in control of their own destiny, that it's all entirely up to you and that you should feel bad if you're not as rich as some other guy, particularly when that other guy had massive advantages over you simply by virtue of his birth.
Everybody is in charge of their own destiny, but that doesn't guarantee financial success.
Lower income people are generally less responsible. They don't pay attention in school, they don't have the inclination to work hard, they don't understand the first thing about finances, so of course many of them fail in life. Is that because they were born on first base instead of third, or is it because they decided to have their second child at the age of 18 and go on some social programs?
Instead of concentrating on being rich, it's better to concentrate on just being better and making decisions to better yourself.
Years ago I used to have a part-time job teaching music. From time to time, some student would walk into the studio all bummed out. They were completely upset because they went to some bar or someplace and seen a great guitarist. I told them that it's just a fact of life. No matter how hard you try, there is always going to be somebody with more money, a bigger D, and can play better guitar than you. I would tell them the only guitarist they have to be better than is the guitarist that was here last week at this very time.
It never failed. They eventually get a new attitude about being a musician and continued to just be better than they were the week before. That's what needs to be done with people who didn't start out in life with a lot of money.
Well that's fine. That's reasonable. What I'm saying is, sometimes the guy who's worse off than you isn't just a lazy slob or an idiot. Sometimes they started out with a lot less than you did, or just had shitty luck. The people act like those of modest means are just losers are the ones I am talking about.
And some people who are poor and need government assistance have just hit a rough patch and don't want to make a career out of it. In fact, I'd say the overwhelming majority are that way.
I would totally disagree with that.
Being financially sound is something anybody can achieve. Graduate from school, get a job, stay out of trouble with the law, don't have children you can't afford to support, and don't buy things you can't afford.
These simple things can be achieved by anybody; poor, middle-class, upper middle-class and the wealthy.
The problem with our poor is they've been convinced by Democrats that their poverty is not their fault. Of course it's their fault.
I'm from a middle-class suburban family. When I got out of school, I worked several minimum wage jobs. Unhappy with my income, I kept trying to increase my earnings. I finally ended up choosing a career where labor is in high demand under any economy. Now can you tell me why a poor person can't do what I did?
Instead of burdening myself with expenses like overpriced cars, homes, children, I decided not to marry or have children. It was several years after cable television came to our area before I ordered it. Why can't a poor person do what I did?
Poverty is not necessarily proportional to failure. Talk to some foreign business owners sometime. They will tell you what poverty is really like. Yet they came to this country with a hundred dollars in their pocket, did what I wrote above, used their money for investments instead, and are living the American dream that our native born so-called poverty people never had.
Because some people legitimately grow up in ghettos with drugs all around them, gang violence, little to no food for days, filthy living conditions, and extremely poor schools.
The difference between a childhood like that and even lower middle class is like night and day.
You were one of the lucky ones. Whether you believe it or not.
It's difficult to escape that kind of poverty, and most people don't have what it takes. Put your average middle class kid in that shit environment and he'd most likely crumble as well.
Middle class is still easy mode in the grand scheme of things.
Then, of course, once you get to making 50k, you get looked down on by the people making 70k. Once you get to making 70k, you get looked down on by the people making 100k. Then 130k, then 200k, then 500k, and so on and so forth (most people don't even get as high as 100k, but let's just assume you keep climbing your whole life). No matter what you do, you're still a loser to someone.
So to the guys in here making fun of the people making 20, 30, 40k, I imagine there are people who would look at your salary and your achievements and laugh their asses off. "This guy thinks he's somebody? Psshhhh ..."
I'm aware of that. It bothers me when people act like everyone is 100% in control of their own destiny, that it's all entirely up to you and that you should feel bad if you're not as rich as some other guy, particularly when that other guy had massive advantages over you simply by virtue of his birth.
Everybody is in charge of their own destiny, but that doesn't guarantee financial success.
Lower income people are generally less responsible. They don't pay attention in school, they don't have the inclination to work hard, they don't understand the first thing about finances, so of course many of them fail in life. Is that because they were born on first base instead of third, or is it because they decided to have their second child at the age of 18 and go on some social programs?
Instead of concentrating on being rich, it's better to concentrate on just being better and making decisions to better yourself.
Years ago I used to have a part-time job teaching music. From time to time, some student would walk into the studio all bummed out. They were completely upset because they went to some bar or someplace and seen a great guitarist. I told them that it's just a fact of life. No matter how hard you try, there is always going to be somebody with more money, a bigger D, and can play better guitar than you. I would tell them the only guitarist they have to be better than is the guitarist that was here last week at this very time.
It never failed. They eventually get a new attitude about being a musician and continued to just be better than they were the week before. That's what needs to be done with people who didn't start out in life with a lot of money.
Well that's fine. That's reasonable. What I'm saying is, sometimes the guy who's worse off than you isn't just a lazy slob or an idiot. Sometimes they started out with a lot less than you did, or just had shitty luck. The people act like those of modest means are just losers are the ones I am talking about.
And some people who are poor and need government assistance have just hit a rough patch and don't want to make a career out of it. In fact, I'd say the overwhelming majority are that way.
I would totally disagree with that.
Being financially sound is something anybody can achieve. Graduate from school, get a job, stay out of trouble with the law, don't have children you can't afford to support, and don't buy things you can't afford.
These simple things can be achieved by anybody; poor, middle-class, upper middle-class and the wealthy.
The problem with our poor is they've been convinced by Democrats that their poverty is not their fault. Of course it's their fault.
I'm from a middle-class suburban family. When I got out of school, I worked several minimum wage jobs. Unhappy with my income, I kept trying to increase my earnings. I finally ended up choosing a career where labor is in high demand under any economy. Now can you tell me why a poor person can't do what I did?
Instead of burdening myself with expenses like overpriced cars, homes, children, I decided not to marry or have children. It was several years after cable television came to our area before I ordered it. Why can't a poor person do what I did?
Poverty is not necessarily proportional to failure. Talk to some foreign business owners sometime. They will tell you what poverty is really like. Yet they came to this country with a hundred dollars in their pocket, did what I wrote above, used their money for investments instead, and are living the American dream that our native born so-called poverty people never had.
Because some people legitimately grow up in ghettos with drugs all around them, gang violence, little to no food for days, filthy living conditions, and extremely poor schools.
The difference between a childhood like that and even lower middle class is like night and day.
You were one of the lucky ones. Whether you believe it or not.
It's difficult to escape that kind of poverty, and most people don't have what it takes. Put your average middle class kid in that shit environment and he'd most likely crumble as well.
Middle class is still easy mode in the grand scheme of things.
You avoided my questions entirely. What did I do when I was younger that some poor kid couldn't do, and why could he or she not do those things?
The reason people have no desire to escape poverty is because our government makes them comfortable in poverty.
My father could tell you stories when he grew up that would make you cry. He and his five siblings lived in a house the size of a three car garage. With no indoor plumbing, going to the bathroom meant heading to the outhouse in the backyard which is no picnic, especially on days like we have today where it's 10 degrees outside with the wind and snow blowing.
He had to quit school to help support his younger siblings. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant pulling your red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road, and they would fill it with fruits and vegetables.
My father joined the Marines because (as he stated) he could at least get three square meals a day for the first time. It cost him a year of his life fighting in Korea, but he had no regrets about his decision.
My father nor his brothers and sisters ever spent a day in jail yet alone prison. Most of them became successful middle-class people, had families, and raised us middle-class children. My father and three other brothers had their own company at one time or another.
Poverty is an excuse for failure, not the cause of it.
A bailout to help the rich instead of blacks? Why do the rich, need another bailout, again.Let’s see if the republican way works this time. Never has before. When I graduated college George hw was fucking things up then Clinton rocked and gw blew. Obama great now let’s see if trump can do good for 3 more years. Don’t ruin what obama gave you like gw did the Clinton surplusYou don’t even know me. I will be a millionaire before I retire in 18 years unless this tax plan raises the retirement age which it willOh is that all we have to do? Just decide to be rich enough to qualify for his tax breaks? Fuck off you donkey.
Actually you DO have to work harder then the other 30 people to become a millionaire and the FACTS support that!
FACT: How many millionaires are self made?
Most Americans with $1 million or more in assets made their money on their own, according to a study by BMO Private Bank released today.
Sixty-seven percent of high-net-worth Americans are self-made millionaires, according to the survey.
Only 8 percent inherited their wealth. One third of the millionaires surveyed were women and half of them made their own fortunes.
Most Millionaires Self-Made, Study Says
Almost 70% did it through hard work and not sitting around bitching and moaning about the "rich" people.
And since you obviously are lazy, shiftless, irresponsible idiot just sitting in your parents' basement jealous of the other people that worked for their millionaires..
YOU will NEVER go anywhere!
No you are NOT smart enough to become a millionaire on your own merits! Because if you were you wouldn't be so f...ing dumb about how businesses work!
I'm going to repeat something again I've tried to get across to dummies like you!
ARE YOU aware that your employer or if you employ others HAVE to pay the same amount as the employee into SS/Medicare... 6.2%?
ARE YOU aware then when businesses hire more people OR even raise their pay to keep more people that MEANS more money to the Federal government?
ARE YOU aware that over $4 trillion in money sits offshore because USA corporate tax rates were 3rd highest?
ARE YOU aware that there IS NOW an advantage for businesses to do BUSINESS and hire people in the USA better atmosphere since the 1980s?
Of course you aren't. AND since you aren't YOU won't be a millionaire before you retire! Because even if you are socking away in stocks, etc. YOU are hating it because
the "rich" you think are getting tax breaks! Well donate your money so you won't be a millionaire!
YOU are truly a dumb f...!
FACTS about the Clinton Surplus and GWB blowing it!
YOU have NO idea what happened evidently from 2001 to 2008. HERE are the facts supported by LINKS!
View attachment 167166
View attachment 167168
But of course dummies like you have NEVER spent any time doing research as to the FACTS... You are a 30 second sound bite headline reader and never did any link research!
Do it and then make your case but until then you are full of sh...T!
Hey, why are you guys extrapolating so much out of the very simple idea that we live in an unequal society of unequal opportunity, and some people play the game of life on a much higher difficulty than others? I didn't say the government should hold your hand. You guys are just making that shit up.
If you can make it up from a horrible starting point, that's great, but the odds aren't in your favor. That's all I'm saying.
Income taxes are not the only federal taxes paid by the poor.Of course they do....where do you guys get this nonsense....?Those people don’t pay taxes anyway
they pay no INCOME taxes. This is about income taxes. You cant cut taxes for someone who is already paying zero (or a negative tax via EIC)
Powers; the People delegated Powers, to government.Lobbying Congress is a Constitutional right. It's not one I'm willing to get rid of.Maybe but eliminating lobbying of Congress, might also help.The only way to do that is eliminate the government's authority to regulate.Agreed. We don't need to eliminate the rich. We do need to eliminate their undue influence.
At any rate the government does such a shitty job of regulating, that there has to be a better way. Government regulating is really government corruption.
But the constitutional right of the government to regulate businesses is expendable. Right?
The government has no rights. It only has duties. contrary to what leftwingers believe, the Constitution doesn't Authorize the federal government to regulate business.
Hey, why are you guys extrapolating so much out of the very simple idea that we live in an unequal society of unequal opportunity, and some people play the game of life on a much higher difficulty than others? I didn't say the government should hold your hand. You guys are just making that shit up.
If you can make it up from a horrible starting point, that's great, but the odds aren't in your favor. That's all I'm saying.
Depends what you consider the goal is? Are you talking about wealthy, such as millionaire or multimillionaire? Are you talking billionaire? Are you talking about owning your own business? What?
The odds aren't in your favor of moving up at all. In the examples you give of poor people moving into the middle class, I'm sure they had at least some positive influence in their corner. Someone to look up to, to inspire to become, whether that be an parent or some other caretaker/authority figure. If your parents are deadbeats and everyone around you is scum, how the hell are you going to make it out? How would you know the way? You need to luck out at some point and receive some positive guidance. There are a lot of factors that effect where we end up in life that are outside our control, unfortunately, whether we like it or not.
As for government interference, I am pretty anti-welfare state, so you don't need to lecture me about that.
Here's an idea, try income equality in Hollywood. There is no more closed society than Tinseltown so try paying the actors as much (as little) as the sound technicians or the camera people or vice versa. If it works out we can try it on other segments of society.
Dear "danielpalos,"
The Rich do not need any tax breaks. But that is not the point.
Kindly remember that our Constitution prohibits taxes on incomes.
Here's an idea, try income equality in Hollywood. There is no more closed society than Tinseltown so try paying the actors as much (as little) as the sound technicians or the camera people or vice versa. If it works out we can try it on other segments of society.
I know a guy who does lighting in movies. He is working poor. NOt poverty, but not good.
Funny how no one ever talks about that industry.
True, but this government not only taxes the successful Disproportionally, It strangles the individual with the collective.Dear "danielpalos,"
The Rich do not need any tax breaks. But that is not the point.
Kindly remember that our Constitution prohibits taxes on incomes. The Founding Fathers recognized that government ought to be financed by the people utilizing its services: fees, excise taxes, and so on. To tax a man's income was to confiscate the product of his independent work, for no reason other than that the Government can throw you in jail if you don't pay. This is incredibly unfair.
But the Constitution was modified to allow taxation of incomes. Obviously, the "fair" way of taxing incomes would be to establish a percentage and have everyone pay that percentage of their income. In that way, the person making twice as much would pay twice as much in taxes - which is unfair - but it is tolerable.
But our tax code was born out of ENVY, nothing more. The Masses looked at those who were more successful than they were, and cried to their political representatives, "This is not FAIR. They have a lot more than we have!"
So the "progressive" tax principle was adopted, despite its fundamental unfairness. And now, a person making a million dollars a year pays INFINITELY more than the household making $30,000, because the less prosperous household pays either NOTHING in federal income taxes, or a NEGATIVE tax, in the form of the Earned Income Tax Credit.
This is fair? Why? That high income did not come out of luck or serendipity. That income usually comes from a lifetime of hard work, intelligent choices, and calculated risks.
So cutting the top marginal tax rate by a couple of percent is NOT a tax "break." It is partly rectifying a huge inequity ("unfairness") in the tax code. It is not a "break" when you are allowed to keep a little bit more of what you earn.
