Indiana School Arming Staff

[Canon Shooter]

Terrible idea. The same folks you don't trust to teach your kids anything are the folks you want to have a gun in close proximity to your kids.

Right wing logic is non-existent.

From the linked article:

"...panic buttons for teachers and what leaders are calling an “armed staff response team.”

That tells me that not every teacher is going to be armed, which is fine...


"Hitchcock said it’s not a concealed carry program."

This should satisfy those who think teachers carrying a concealed weapon in the classroom is a bad idea...


"Staff who volunteer will go through initial training and must be approved by the district. There will also be additional training each quarter and, the district stresses, it’s a last resort."

Regular training? District approval? Do any of the naysayers here honestly believe that won't include a psych eval?


“The guns or the weapons will be stored in safes in different locations that we won’t be sharing publicly for obvious reasons,” Hitchcock said. “We hope to never use it but we want to have it in place in case it does.”

Sounds as though they're taking steps to ensure that guns aren't in "close proximity" to anyone.

Why do liberals always deride proposed solutions, yet they repeatedly prove to be complete failures at coming up with solutions of their own?

This school district has the right idea...

 

[TNHarley]

That can't be answered unless we know what getting out all entails.

fair enough

 

[fncceo]

John Hinckley was held for a very long time.

Yeah ... John Hinckley shot a sitting US President. That's kind of next-level stuff.

Plus, he did it in 1981, before they eliminated long-term involuntary committal.

 

[fncceo]

Sounds as though they're taking steps to ensure that guns aren't in "close proximity" to anyone.

Unlike nuclear weapons, firearms are really much of a deterrent if they aren't in close proximity to anyone.

 

[pknopp]

Yeah ... John Hinckley shot a sitting US President. That's kind of next-level stuff.

Plus, he did it in 1981, before they eliminated long-term involuntary committal.

We have long term involuntary committal of tens of thousands in this country. You are arguing we can't hold someone determined to have a serious mental health issue that has already threatened someone and I am arguing that we need to have that discussion.

 

[pknopp]

Unlike nuclear weapons, firearms are really much of a deterrent if they aren't in close proximity to anyone.

The argument boils down to 8 dead as opposed to 12 dead instead of no one dead.

Now I believe each individual has a right to try and make sure they are not one of the 8 dead but it really does not solve the big picture problem.

 

[fncceo]

You are arguing we can't hold someone determined to have a serious mental health issue that has already threatened someone and I am arguing that we need to have that discussion.

We had that discussion 40 years ago. We aren't going back to the old days of Cuckoo's Nest. Not matter how much it makes sense, any politician that suggested it would immediately be labelled as a Nazi.

 

[pknopp]

We had that discussi on 40 years ago. We aren't going back to the old days of Cuckoo's Nest. Not matter how much it makes sense, any politician that suggested it would immediately be labelled as a Nazi.

If kids continue to get killed at some point we will have the discussion. It's too bad for those who will be killed until then.

 

[Canon Shooter]

I was told that if you make a threat over the phone, little can be done.

That's not even a little bit true.

Criminal Threats: Laws and Penalties

A criminal threat involves one person threatening someone else with physical harm or death. To be convicted, the prosecution must prove:

• the defendant communicated a threat of harm to another
• the defendant intended that the communication be taken as a threat, and
• the threat was credible and specific so as to place a person in fear of harm.

There's no mention of how the threat is communicated. It's simply not important. And, while the imminent nature of the threat can be important, it does not appear to be a requirement for a conviction.

In some states (like Idaho, for example), using a telephone to convey a threat is illegal:

18-6710. Use of telephone to annoy, terrify, threaten, intimidate, harass or offend by lewd or profane language, requests, suggestions or proposals--Threats of physical harm--Disturbing the peace by repeated calls--Penalties

 

[fncceo]

The argument boils down to 8 dead as opposed to 12 dead instead of no one dead.

Now I believe each individual has a right to try and make sure they are not one of the 8 dead but it really does not solve the big picture problem.

There is no solution to the big picture problem because:

We will not allow teachers to carry firearms...

We won't hire armed security for schools...

We won't institutionalize someone in a mental facility long term without being convicted of a crime...

We have made it very difficult to convict someone of a crime if they are mentally ill ...

... This is the problem we've created for ourselves. Instead of addressing it it dispassionately, one side will say, "Take away guns from legal owners". The other side will say, "Over my dead body".

I'm afraid that anything short of a complete breakdown of society will prevent this problem from every being addressed.

 

[DukeU]

Right wing logic is non-existent.

Compared to left wing logic, it's genius level.

California gives 76,000 inmates, mostly violent …​

California gives 76,000 inmates, mostly violent criminals, chance for earlier release amid prison population cuts – media​

NYC to release 'worst kind of criminals' from Rikers Island early​

 

[Canon Shooter]

Unlike nuclear weapons, firearms are really much of a deterrent if they aren't in close proximity to anyone.

Well, if they're not much of a deterrent than they won't be much of a threat, either. Ergo, the left should have no issue with what this school district is doing...

 

[pknopp]

That's not even a little bit true.

Criminal Threats: Laws and Penalties

A criminal threat involves one person threatening someone else with physical harm or death. To be convicted, the prosecution must prove:

• the defendant communicated a threat of harm to another
• the defendant intended that the communication be taken as a threat, and
• the threat was credible and specific so as to place a person in fear of harm.

There's no mention of how the threat is communicated. It's simply not important. And, while the imminent nature of the threat can be important, it does not appear to be a requirement for a conviction.

In some states (like Idaho, for example), using a telephone to convey a threat is illegal:

18-6710. Use of telephone to annoy, terrify, threaten, intimidate, harass or offend by lewd or profane language, requests, suggestions or proposals--Threats of physical harm--Disturbing the peace by repeated calls--Penalties

I can not harm someone over the phone. I was told that if the threats were continual that action could be taken.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

I disagree. Lets take the case of James Holmes. His therapist told authorities he threatened her. She told authorities he was going to harm someone. Now threats in a situation like that are actionable. Authorities did nothing.

The authorities did nothing then which is how things went for that Texas school. Thank you for letting us know how far back that particular problem goes.

God bless you and every surviving victim of both shootings always!!!

Holly

P.S. May the armed Indiana teachers know when the right time to shoot is.

 

[fncceo]

Well, if they're not much of a deterrent than they won't be much of a threat, either. Ergo, the left should have no issue with what this school district is doing...

Then what is the point of having a firearm for protection if no one has access to it?

 

[Canon Shooter]

I can not harm someone over the phone. I was told that if the threats were continual that action could be taken.

Well, be confident that you can tell whoever told you that they're incorrect.

This is an old case, but it addresses this specific scenario:

U.S. Rep. Jim McDermott

The caller, 33 year old Charles Habermann, called the Washington State Congressman from his home in Palm Springs, California. He threatened the Congressman's life and the lives of others.

He spent eight months in prison. The case was investigated by the FBI and prosecuted by the US Attorney's Office...

 

[Canon Shooter]

Then what is the point of having a firearm for protection if no one has access to it?

The guns will be in safes. Presumably, there will be people on campus who have access to that safe, and certain people (the "team") would go to the safe to get a firearm.

This is similar: When in port, US Navy ships have what's known as a "Security Alert Force". If someone breaches the security of the ship, specifically designated personnel report to the ship's armory to retrieve weapons, and then take station in various areas of the ship to potentially confront the threat.

What the Indiana school is doing is almost a carbon copy of that...

 

[ClaireH]

In support that it’s difficult to charge someone who threatens another person over the phone. Two coworkers (not of mine, but a friend of mine works with these two males) working together for many months, and one overhears the other guy make a phone call to his gf and the coworker hears, “ I will come over there and kill you, but before I do I will rape your daughter in front of you”. Employee took it to HR and the response: hearsay, nothing can be done. The two guys no longer work as a team as the “reporter” asked to be moved to another department.

This kind of thing….we don’t want false accusations running amuck but letting this emotional loser walk around daily and many others just like him, they deserve their just rewards imo. Yes, I’m taking the word of the witness because I know this guy.

I guess had the threats been taped HR could have involved the police having evidence, but then the laws about being taped unknowingly could have prevented much of a consequence. Hate speech sure seemed to pair well with his threats and I hope to not need to come back with an update if this angry character acts out on his words.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Hitchcock said it’s not a concealed carry program. Staff who volunteer will go through initial training and must be approved by the district. There will also be additional training each quarter and, the district stresses, it’s a last resort.

“The guns or the weapons will be stored in safes in different locations that we won’t be sharing publicly for obvious reasons,” Hitchcock said. “We hope to never use it but we want to have it in place in case it does.”

Better than any plan the Democrats may offer, but does not allow for an immediate response.
Concealed carry is a better idea.

 

[pknopp]

Well, be confident that you can tell whoever told you that they're incorrect.

Chief of police.

This is an old case, but it addresses this specific scenario:

U.S. Rep. Jim McDermott

The caller, 33 year old Charles Habermann, called the Washington State Congressman from his home in Palm Springs, California. He threatened the Congressman's life and the lives of others.

He spent eight months in prison. The case was investigated by the FBI and prosecuted by the US Attorney's Office...

He made more than one call.