Iraq is imploding. Should we lend air support or wash our hands?

[paulitician]

Obama was ill-advised on the Syrian conflict. He ended up funding & arming the animals who are now wreaking havoc in Iraq. Assad was the safer pick. Putin had it right. Much bloodier times are ahead over there. Even if Obama decides to bomb the Rebels, it won't solve the problem. The Sunni Rebels aren't going away. It is what it is.

I'm sitting here hoping to see a tweet from Assad to Obama.

I told you they were terrorists you asshole.

Putin tried to warn him in a reasonable & respectful manner. He told him these were not people he should fund & arm. But like Bush with Hussein, he was hell-bent on removing Assad. And now it's time for Blow Back. It's very sad.

 

[TooTall]

If Bush and CHeney had actually listened to those generals they were so fond of referring to, they would have been told just that.

If Obama had listened to those Generals this could have been prevented. A small special ops force to continue training the Iraqi Army and provide intel to them.

I can hear Joe Biden now when Obama sent him to Iraq to ask for a status of forces agreement allowing that to happen. "You guys don't want the US to keep any troops in Iraq, do you?" "Didn't think so."

The US has kept a military presence in So Korea, Japan, and Germany after major wars. Why not Iraq, if for no other reason than to keep the price of oil stable?

On the other hand, we can always just kick-down the door again, if we ever need to, so, why bother with the expense of maintaining such a force. Or so it seems, at first glance.

The expense of keeping a small force in country is miniscule compared to 'kicking down the door" again.

 

[Kondor3]

If Obama had listened to those Generals this could have been prevented. A small special ops force to continue training the Iraqi Army and provide intel to them.

I can hear Joe Biden now when Obama sent him to Iraq to ask for a status of forces agreement allowing that to happen. "You guys don't want the US to keep any troops in Iraq, do you?" "Didn't think so."

The US has kept a military presence in So Korea, Japan, and Germany after major wars. Why not Iraq, if for no other reason than to keep the price of oil stable?

On the other hand, we can always just kick-down the door again, if we ever need to, so, why bother with the expense of maintaining such a force. Or so it seems, at first glance.

The expense of keeping a small force in country is miniscule compared to 'kicking down the door" again.

Agreed.

But the political and economic costs associated with staying might prove very high as well.

And, of course, if we kick down the door again, without worrying about the nation-building afterwards, then the cost goes way down.

 

[edthecynic]

'Terrorists'?

They are actually the Sunni population that has been in Iraq for 13 centuries. It's the Iranian-backed Shiite minority government which was installed by Bush who should be sent packing.

They may be calling themselves al Qaeda, but these aren't the people from bin Laden's group.

They are terrorists. Make no mistake about it. I've been watching the spin develop on different lib boards trying to do damage control and find a way to blame Bush for Obama's mega fuck up allowing ISIS and Baghdadi to form a terrorist army.

You can't. Here ya go. Chew on it. From your liberal rag....

“The true heir to Osama bin Laden may be ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi,” wrote The Washington Post’s David Ignatius. He is “more violent, more virulent, more anti-American,” a senior U.S. intelligence official told the columnist, while the cautious and uncharismatic Zawahiri “is not coping well.” In fact, Baghdadi is now recruiting fighters from other Zawahiri affiliates, including al-Qaeda’s Yemen branch and the Somalia-based al-Shabab.



Obama let this terrorist go in 2009.

“Whereas Baghdadi has done an amazing amount — he has captured cities, he has mobilized huge amounts of people, he is killing ruthlessly throughout Iraq and Syria…. If you were a guy who wanted action, you would go with Baghdadi.”

How ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi became the world?s most powerful jihadist leader - The Washington Post

Guy was never in captivity therefore he couldn't have been let go. Are you hitting the sauce?

The Right knows they are two different "Baghdadis," which is a fake name to begin with, AQ in Iraq calls ALL their leaders Baghdadi. Kill one Baghdadi and up pops another Baghdadi. The Baghdadi that was released in 2009 was killed in 2010. The Right knows this but the Right has to lie to breathe.

 

[Chris]

Divide Iraq into Sunni, Shia, and Kurdish countries.

Just like we did with Yugoslavia.

 

[edthecynic]

He was taken as a prisoner of the Americans in Camp Bucca between 2005 and 2009 - it was here that one of the only two photos know to be in existence was taken of him.

'We either arrested or killed a man of that name about half a dozen times, he is like a wraith who keeps reappearing, and I am not sure where fact and fiction meet,' said Lieutenant-General Sir Graeme Lamb, a former British special forces commander who helped US efforts against al-Qaeda in Iraq told The Telegraph.

'There are those who want to promote the idea that this man is invincible, when it may actually be several people using the same nom de guerre.'

His capture in 2005 is pure bullshit. At the end of October 2005 they claimed they killed him, so at the very least he was still free with only 2 months left in 2005. You know this, of course, because your own link admits there are many Baghdadis!!!

WebCite query result

US launches airstrike near Syrian border

10/26/2005 18:48

A US warplane struck a suspected insurgent safe house near the Syrian border Wednesday and may have killed a senior al-Qaida in Iraq figure who assisted in smuggling Syrian and Saudi fighters into Iraq, the US military said. A military statement did not give details of the airstrike. But it said intelligence sources indicated that the al-Qaida member, identified only as Abu Dua, was inside the house at the time of the attack. His body has not been recovered, the military said. Abu Dua was part of a network that included al-Qaida figures in a network of towns along the Syrian border northwest of Baghdad, the statement added.

 

[Synthaholic]

Saddam, miss him yet?

I missed him the day we invaded. I wanted us to reconcile with him and put up a united front against Iran.



Ok, so far, so good.

And as if the situation couldn't get any worse, President Noble Peace Prize had the bright idea to give Al Qaeda weapons in Syria(because Assad was the new Hitler), and when these guys lost in Syria they have just decided to overthrow the puppet state we spent a decade establishing.

...and now you've gone full retard.

Obama didn't arm the Syrian rebels, like John McCain wanted him to.

Wow, I thought this was common knowledge that US was arming rebels(which are primarily Islamic Radicals like Al Nusrah and ISIS. I guess the average American is in fact more retarded than I thought. The fact that someone so incredibly misinformed can have the right to vote is a fucking tragedy. Seriously go sit in the corner with your cyber dunce cap.



CIA begins weapons delivery to Syrian rebels - The Washington Post

Syrian rebels seen firing U.S.-made weapons raises questions - TIME

US reportedly starts supplying Syrian rebels with anti-tank weapons ? RT USA

U.S., Britain suspend aid to north Syria after Islamists seize weapons store | Reuters


The Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria: Two Arab countries fall apart | The Economist

U.S. providing some lethal aid to Syrian rebels: opposition spokesman | Reuters

» Susan Rice Admits U.S. Giving Arms to Al-Qaeda in Syria Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Honestly, stick to talking about how evil the Tea Party is or how guns are bad. You are out of your depth on foreign policy issues

So covert? If Susan Rice has to admit it, then it wasn't an announced policy, as I said.

From your first link:


‘It’s better than nothing’


While the State Department is coordinating nonlethal aid, the CIA is overseeing the delivery of weaponry and other lethal equipment to the rebels. An opposition official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss covert arms transfers, said U.S. intelligence personnel have begun delivering long-promised light weapons and ammunition to rebel groups in the past couple of weeks.



The weaponry “doesn’t solve all the needs the guys have, but it’s better than nothing,” the opposition official said. He added that Washington remains reluctant to give the rebels what they most desire: antitank and antiaircraft weapons.

 

[bripat9643]

Divide Iraq into Sunni, Shia, and Kurdish countries.

Just like we did with Yugoslavia.

we didn't do shit with Yugoslavia. The current borders were determined by a blood civil war that killed tens of thousands of people.

 

[tinydancer]

They are terrorists. Make no mistake about it. I've been watching the spin develop on different lib boards trying to do damage control and find a way to blame Bush for Obama's mega fuck up allowing ISIS and Baghdadi to form a terrorist army.

You can't. Here ya go. Chew on it. From your liberal rag....

“The true heir to Osama bin Laden may be ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi,” wrote The Washington Post’s David Ignatius. He is “more violent, more virulent, more anti-American,” a senior U.S. intelligence official told the columnist, while the cautious and uncharismatic Zawahiri “is not coping well.” In fact, Baghdadi is now recruiting fighters from other Zawahiri affiliates, including al-Qaeda’s Yemen branch and the Somalia-based al-Shabab.



Obama let this terrorist go in 2009.

“Whereas Baghdadi has done an amazing amount — he has captured cities, he has mobilized huge amounts of people, he is killing ruthlessly throughout Iraq and Syria…. If you were a guy who wanted action, you would go with Baghdadi.”

How ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi became the world?s most powerful jihadist leader - The Washington Post

Guy was never in captivity therefore he couldn't have been let go. Are you hitting the sauce?

The Right knows they are two different "Baghdadis," which is a fake name to begin with, AQ in Iraq calls ALL their leaders Baghdadi. Kill one Baghdadi and up pops another Baghdadi. The Baghdadi that was released in 2009 was killed in 2010. The Right knows this but the Right has to lie to breathe.

You're calling David Ignatius a right wing liar now? You are getting desperate.

 

[Synthaholic]

Saddam, miss him yet?

I missed him the day we invaded. I wanted us to reconcile with him and put up a united front against Iran.



Ok, so far, so good.

And as if the situation couldn't get any worse, President Noble Peace Prize had the bright idea to give Al Qaeda weapons in Syria(because Assad was the new Hitler), and when these guys lost in Syria they have just decided to overthrow the puppet state we spent a decade establishing.

...and now you've gone full retard.

Obama didn't arm the Syrian rebels, like John McCain wanted him to.

What about the Iraq Liberation Act?

Iraq Liberation Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Weren't you concerned about Saddam when Clinton signed this into law?

No. Saddam was no more deserving of being toppled than Mubarak, Assad (Sr.), Gaddafi, or any other Middle East strongman. NeoCons who wanted access to those oil fields made him out to be Satan incarnate.

 

[tinydancer]

Iran is vowing to end terrorism in Iraq. What do you think their rules of engagement are going to be?

I digress. back to Baghdadi. If he's dead like old Eddie is claiming why would America still have a 10 million dollar bounty on his head. And it is only speculation that there are several commanders using the same name. No proof whatsoever. And that is completely countered by other claims of one man leading this army of terrorists.

Sorry Eddie to burst your left wing bubble....

The organisation is led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who has a U.S. bounty of $10million on his head, second only to al-Zawahiri.

The ISIS leader, who was born in 1971 in Baghdad, is touted as a battlefield commander and tactician.

Baghdadi, who has a degree in Islamic studies, apparently joined the insurgency that erupted in Iraq soon after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.

He was taken as a prisoner of the Americans in Camp Bucca between 2005 and 2007 - it was here that one of the only two photos know to be in existence was taken of him.

He is known as 'The Ghost' to members of the pro-Assad Lebanese Shi-ite militia Hizballah.

The secretive Baghdadi talks with a scarf covering his face even when dealing with close allies, according to militants who worked with him in Iraq.

He addresses his ISIS followers through audio recordings posted to the internet, rather than in public places.

Military sources have reported his death on numerous occasions in the past years, but the fighter always seems to reappear. This has led to speculation that al-Baghdadi is in fact a name used jointly by several commanders.

Some estimates claim Isis group has in excess of 10,000 fighting men in its ranks. Many of its fighters are thought to be radicalised Western Muslims who have poured in from Europe and North American to join the fighting in Syria and elsewhere.

The group, which controls large areas of land in Syria, is thought to be pouring resources and money from those areas into its burgeoning Iraqi campaign, which has seen it tear through the northern regions on the country.

ISIS militants march on Baghdad with a bullet in the head for anyone who gets in the way | Mail Online

 

[Interpol]

I would not be in favor of lending any air or other support.

It has been to our great detriment that we continue to stick our noses in the middle of a rampant sectarian civil war currently fighting itself out in the Middle East.

It is absolutely pointless to send arms to one faction, only to see them be stolen by another faction or made unusable by our allies so that no one can use them.

John McCain's idea of flying in 5000 troops is so preposterous as to be laughable.

Any person who is for going in there a third friggin' time in 23 years is a person that has taken leave of logic and can't be taken seriously.

 

[Siete]

Iran is vowing to end terrorism in Iraq. What do you think their rules of engagement are going to be?

I digress. back to Baghdadi. If he's dead like old Eddie is claiming why would America still have a 10 million dollar bounty on his head.

Sorry Eddie to burst your left wing bubble....

The organisation is led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who has a U.S. bounty of $10million on his head, second only to al-Zawahiri.

The ISIS leader, who was born in 1971 in Baghdad, is touted as a battlefield commander and tactician.

Baghdadi, who has a degree in Islamic studies, apparently joined the insurgency that erupted in Iraq soon after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.

He was taken as a prisoner of the Americans in Camp Bucca between 2005 and 2007 - it was here that one of the only two photos know to be in existence was taken of him.

He is known as 'The Ghost' to members of the pro-Assad Lebanese Shi-ite militia Hizballah.

The secretive Baghdadi talks with a scarf covering his face even when dealing with close allies, according to militants who worked with him in Iraq.

He addresses his ISIS followers through audio recordings posted to the internet, rather than in public places.

Military sources have reported his death on numerous occasions in the past years, but the fighter always seems to reappear. This has led to speculation that al-Baghdadi is in fact a name used jointly by several commanders.

Some estimates claim Isis group has in excess of 10,000 fighting men in its ranks. Many of its fighters are thought to be radicalised Western Muslims who have poured in from Europe and North American to join the fighting in Syria and elsewhere.

The group, which controls large areas of land in Syria, is thought to be pouring resources and money from those areas into its burgeoning Iraqi campaign, which has seen it tear through the northern regions on the country.

ISIS militants march on Baghdad with a bullet in the head for anyone who gets in the way | Mail Online

none of our business, NONE.

 

[Synthaholic]

Iranian Forces now in Iraq fighting radical islamist ISIS. You know its a messed up world when the Iranians are the good guys.

Iran Deploys Forces to Fight Militants in Iraq - WSJ

Report: Iranian Troops Already Battling Terrorists Inside Iraq | The Daily Caller

Wow. Obama has ignored all the pleas for help for over a year and now Iran is coming to Iraq's aid?

Unreal. Just unfreaking real.

Once again for the slow readers:

Iraq refused a SOFA. Look it up.

Maliki invited the Iranian Revolutionary Guard to Iraq. Why? Because he and his government are Shiites and so are the Iranians.

 

[Synthaholic]

The not quite as bad as this guy guys, at least for now.

Assad was like Saddam, secular, certainly repressive, but far better than the rebels, as we can now see. We really opened up a can of worms now to say the least getting involved in Syria with shady elements like ISIS and Al Nusra.

For their faults, the Middle East was a far more peaceful, secular, a prosperous place with strongmen like Assad and Saddam in power.

Maybe but Obama says Assad must go -----( well he was for awhile --He might like him now )

He was talking about the senior Assad.

Bashir Assad is just the punk son with an eye doctor's license.

Like Rand Paul.

 

[tinydancer]

I missed him the day we invaded. I wanted us to reconcile with him and put up a united front against Iran.



Ok, so far, so good.

...and now you've gone full retard.

Obama didn't arm the Syrian rebels, like John McCain wanted him to.

What about the Iraq Liberation Act?

Iraq Liberation Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Weren't you concerned about Saddam when Clinton signed this into law?

No. Saddam was no more deserving of being toppled than Mubarak, Assad (Sr.), Gaddafi, or any other Middle East strongman. NeoCons who wanted access to those oil fields made him out to be Satan incarnate.

Obama wanted all those other leaders gone. And he pushed to get rid of Mubarak and replace him with Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Thank heavens Egyptians came to their senses and tossed him. Libya is run by militias now that Obama forced Gaddafi out. It's a dog's breakfast.

He's still bitching like crazy over Assad and has tried every which way but loose to bump him from power.

And most recently he backed the coup in Ukraine to force a duly elected leader and government from power.

So why not Saddam?

Just curious.

 

[Interpol]

What about the Iraq Liberation Act?

Iraq Liberation Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Weren't you concerned about Saddam when Clinton signed this into law?

No. Saddam was no more deserving of being toppled than Mubarak, Assad (Sr.), Gaddafi, or any other Middle East strongman. NeoCons who wanted access to those oil fields made him out to be Satan incarnate.

Obama wanted all those other leaders gone. And he pushed to get rid of Mubarak and replace him with Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Thank heavens Egyptians came to their senses and tossed him. Libya is run by militias now that Obama forced Gaddafi out. It's a dog's breakfast.

He's still bitching like crazy over Assad and has tried every which way but loose to bump him from power.

And most recently he backed the coup in Ukraine to force a duly elected leader and government from power.

So why not Saddam?

Just curious.

Saddam worked out as a buffer between Iran and Syria. Saddam was not as terribly strong as everyone thought he was, but his public image campaign worked to convince us otherwise. He was dastardly and played a great poker hand as leader of Iraq. The whole region has been more destabilized since he got toppled. Who'd a thunk it?

I think Obama was right about Iraq all along. We created a worse devil, but in the end, just like Vietnam, we can't just stay there forever. Those people have to fight for their own destinies. We should try to help in better ways than just sending arms to one faction.

 

[edthecynic]

According to articles I've read 90,000 Iraqi Troops deserted. If they refuse to fight for their own country even after we've armed them, then they are hopeless..............

Hopefully some of them will have enough back bone to fight back, but so far it doesn't appear so.

Exactly! Bush tried to train the Iraqi army and police for almost 6 years, nearly everything American blood and treasure had won was lost the first time Bush tried to turn over the fighting to the Iraqi army. Bush then spilled more American blood and wasted more treasure with the surge that took back all the territory the Iraqi army had lost, American soldiers are more than capable of defeating the terrorists. But after another 5 years of training the Iraqi army still can't hold the territory American blood and treasure have won.

After 11 years it should be obvious that the only way to hold Iraq is with American blood and treasure invested there forever! Do we want to spend American blood and treasure in Iraq for the next 100 years as McCain wanted to do, because that is what is required in Iraq?!!!!!

 

[Siete]

Iranian Forces now in Iraq fighting radical islamist ISIS. You know its a messed up world when the Iranians are the good guys.

Iran Deploys Forces to Fight Militants in Iraq - WSJ

Report: Iranian Troops Already Battling Terrorists Inside Iraq | The Daily Caller

Wow. Obama has ignored all the pleas for help for over a year and now Iran is coming to Iraq's aid?

Unreal. Just unfreaking real.

Once again for the slow readers:

Iraq refused a SOFA. Look it up.

Maliki invited the Iranian Revolutionary Guard to Iraq. Why? Because he and his government are Shiites and so are the Iranians.

allow me to help ..

In one of his final acts in office, President Bush in December of 2008 had signed a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with the Iraqi government that set the clock ticking on ending the war he’d launched in March of 2003. The SOFA provided a legal basis for the presence of U.S. forces in Iraq after the United Nations Security Council mandate for the occupation mission expired at the end of 2008. But it required that all U.S. forces be gone from Iraq by January 1, 2012, unless the Iraqi government was willing to negotiate a new agreement that would extend their mandate.

 

[I.P.Freely]

allow me to help.
Iraq crisis: Sunni caliphate has been bankrolled by Saudi Arabia - Voices - The Independent