Iraq is imploding. Should we lend air support or wash our hands?

[georgephillip]

Absolutely the United States and other countries should help. Why let a terrorist organization like ISIS win and threaten the world. Don't make the mistake that the United States did in Vietnam and abandon a country to tyranny.

Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World, remember?
Why would you think more killing, maiming, and displacing will solve the problem created by the USofA?

The United States made the region more stable. The United States made Kuwait safer than it has been in a generation. The United States brought the killings and instability in Iraq down and got it under control. Then Obama failed to follow through and withdrew troops prematurely. Still Iraq was able to hold on for over 2 years despite essentially being abandoned by the Obama administration.

Sending in around 10,000 U.S. troops, special forces, advisors and forward observers to work with the Iraqi military in the south near Baghdad and the Kurdish military in the north near Mosul and Kirkuk combined with U.S. airpower and drone capabilities would gradually bring the situation back under control and allow many of the 500,000 people to return home. The Kurds should be given responsibility for security in Mosul and Kirkuk from here on out given how far behind the Iraqi military has fallen in its training and cohesion. The Iraqi's and work on Al Anbar, Diyala and Salihadin Provinces. The border between Syria and Iraq, while it can never be sealed, needs to be less permeable and concerted effort should be made to stop the flow of weapons terrorist across the border in both directions.

A lot of good, can come from the correct use of a small amount of military force in a relatively short amount of time. Make no mistake, the war will continue, but this highly risky episode of the past week can be made history, if the President is willing to take decisive action, which unfortunately he has been unable to for several years now. The President has the means to restore the conflict to where it was a few months ago which would benefit millions of people given the current situation. The question is, will he do it?

He's apparently willing to ally with Iran in order to stop ISIS:

"The United States and Iran are moving rapidly to defend Iraq from rampaging Sunni Islamist insurgents, with Washington urgently considering air strikes on the jihadi militants and Tehran dispatching its foremost powerbroker to help arrange the defence of Baghdad."

If Obama reintroduces US ground forces into Iraq, he will be impeached.

The world is slowly waking to the reality that much of the "creative destruction" in the Middle East results from the deliberate aggravation of pre-existing regional tensions by the US and Britain; divide and conquer is not a new geopolitical concept.

I hope you are not naive enough to believe the US government has the slightest interest in peace or stability anywhere in the world when there is so much money to be made from wars and debt.

Iraq crisis: Iran and US join fight against Sunni jihadis of Isis | World news | The Guardian

 

[zeke]

Ignore them....

Continuing to intervene...will require that we continue to intervene.

Our misrakdes was to e,liminate Sadaam who never allowed Al Queda in..

But we need to cut our losses...Its, at its base, not about us

I have mixed feelings on this.

On one hand the middle east is a cesspool of savages and I just wish they would all kill each other off.

On the other hand do we stand by and let these savages gain control of a nation from which they would gain military assets to use against us?

Ignoring them won't make them leave us alone so whats the solution?

To allow Baghdadi and his terrorist army to seize and plunder Baghdad would be pure idiocy on our part.

We're just begging for all hell to be unleashed on us if we let that happen. As it is by taking Mosul's banks they are now the best funded terrorist organization on the planet.

They scored over $400 million in one fell swoop. Think if they seized Baghdad. Aye carumba!

Looks like Iran though has stepped in to save the day. I for one will be relieved if they can wipe this terrorist offshoot of AQ off the face of the earth.

Yep I bet you will (be relieved). I heard from reliable sources that the terrorist organization in Iraq has YOUR name on the top of their list of Americans they most want to kill.
True story.

So YOU had better get YOUR sorry ass to Iraq ASAP to STOP the spread of Muslim terrorism.

If you don't go (to Iraq) and fight for your life, you are a pussy. And all mouth and fingers. And you know it.

 

[JoeB131]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

So you think we should throw good money after bad?

It was a bad idea to topple Saddam to start with. We shouldn't continue to invest in a mistake because it was a mistake.

 

[paulitician]

Iran to the rescue? Yikes! What a mess. Looks like we've handed Iraq over to Iran. All that blood & treasure spent. And for what? So Iran could take Iraq and gain even more oil riches? A horrifying blunder for sure. But let's not make it worse. Let's sit this one out.

 

[kaz]

Iraq needs to be broken up into separate countries, just like we did with Yugoslavia.

One for the Shia, one for the Sunni, and one for the Kurds.

Try to draw that map...

Kurds to the North...

Shiites in the Middle...

Sunnis in the South?

You haven't looked at a map or how long they've been there

 

[kaz]

Iraq needs to be broken up into separate countries, just like we did with Yugoslavia.

One for the Shia, one for the Sunni, and one for the Kurds.

Try to draw that map...

Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters already has

"The map of the 'New Middle East' was a key element in the retired Lieutenant-Colonel’s book, Never Quit the Fight, which was released to the public on July 10, 2006.

"This map of a redrawn Middle East was also published, under the title of Blood Borders: How a better Middle East would look, in the U.S. military’s Armed Forces Journal with commentary from Ralph Peters.5

"It should be noted that Lieutenant-Colonel Peters was last posted to the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, within the U.S. Defence Department, and has been one of the Pentagon’s foremost authors with numerous essays on strategy for military journals and U.S. foreign policy.

"It has been written that Ralph Peters’ 'four previous books on strategy have been highly influential in government and military circles,' but one can be pardoned for asking if in fact quite the opposite could be taking place.

"Could it be Lieutenant-Colonel Peters is revealing and putting forward what Washington D.C. and its strategic planners have anticipated for the Middle East?

"The concept of a redrawn Middle East has been presented as a 'humanitarian' and 'righteous' arrangement that would benefit the people(s) of the Middle East and its peripheral regions. According to Ralph Peter’s:

"'International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.'"

Plans for Redrawing the Middle East: The Project for a ?New Middle East? | Global Research

When I say try to draw that map, I obviously mean one that would hold up. that map would have an immediate war with Turkey invading the Kurds and the Shiites attacking the Sunnis over all the Shiite areas it puts under Sunni control. Draw a map that would hold up.

 

[paulitician]

Could be one bright spot in this mess. Looks like the Kurds might finally get their own Homeland. The Kurds are a good trustworthy people. They've been a loyal friend. They seem somewhat sane in an insane part of the World. And they've been brutally oppressed by their neighbors on all sides. I have to root for em. I'd like to see them get their Homeland. God Bless em.

 

[kaz]

Try to draw that map...

Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters already has

"The map of the 'New Middle East' was a key element in the retired Lieutenant-Colonel’s book, Never Quit the Fight, which was released to the public on July 10, 2006.

"This map of a redrawn Middle East was also published, under the title of Blood Borders: How a better Middle East would look, in the U.S. military’s Armed Forces Journal with commentary from Ralph Peters.5

"It should be noted that Lieutenant-Colonel Peters was last posted to the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, within the U.S. Defence Department, and has been one of the Pentagon’s foremost authors with numerous essays on strategy for military journals and U.S. foreign policy.

"It has been written that Ralph Peters’ 'four previous books on strategy have been highly influential in government and military circles,' but one can be pardoned for asking if in fact quite the opposite could be taking place.

"Could it be Lieutenant-Colonel Peters is revealing and putting forward what Washington D.C. and its strategic planners have anticipated for the Middle East?

"The concept of a redrawn Middle East has been presented as a 'humanitarian' and 'righteous' arrangement that would benefit the people(s) of the Middle East and its peripheral regions. According to Ralph Peter’s:

"'International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.'"

Plans for Redrawing the Middle East: The Project for a ?New Middle East? | Global Research

Randomly drawing borders after WWI is part of the problem. The whole area used to be "Persia".

No ME nation is going to allow america...or anyone else.... to redraw their borders.

Yes, the Kurds got screwed in Paris and the Sunnis and Shiites were put there by the British over oil. However, it can't just be undone like that now.

This is a big reason why the US shouldn't be there. Let them all waste each other until they find lines themselves they can live with.

 

[Katzndogz]

Could be one bright spot in this mess. Looks like the Kurds might finally get their own Homeland. The Kurds are a good trustworthy people. They've been a loyal friend. They seem somewhat sane in an insane part of the World. And they've been brutally oppressed by their neighbors on all sides. I have to root for em. I'd like to see them get their Homeland. God Bless em.

Turkey does not share your opinion. Free Kurdistan would be at war with Turkey within hours of becoming an independent state.

 

[paulitician]

Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters already has

"The map of the 'New Middle East' was a key element in the retired Lieutenant-Colonel’s book, Never Quit the Fight, which was released to the public on July 10, 2006.

"This map of a redrawn Middle East was also published, under the title of Blood Borders: How a better Middle East would look, in the U.S. military’s Armed Forces Journal with commentary from Ralph Peters.5

"It should be noted that Lieutenant-Colonel Peters was last posted to the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, within the U.S. Defence Department, and has been one of the Pentagon’s foremost authors with numerous essays on strategy for military journals and U.S. foreign policy.

"It has been written that Ralph Peters’ 'four previous books on strategy have been highly influential in government and military circles,' but one can be pardoned for asking if in fact quite the opposite could be taking place.

"Could it be Lieutenant-Colonel Peters is revealing and putting forward what Washington D.C. and its strategic planners have anticipated for the Middle East?

"The concept of a redrawn Middle East has been presented as a 'humanitarian' and 'righteous' arrangement that would benefit the people(s) of the Middle East and its peripheral regions. According to Ralph Peter’s:

"'International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.'"

Plans for Redrawing the Middle East: The Project for a ?New Middle East? | Global Research

Randomly drawing borders after WWI is part of the problem. The whole area used to be "Persia".

No ME nation is going to allow america...or anyone else.... to redraw their borders.

Yes, the Kurds got screwed in Paris and the Sunnis and Shiites were put there by the British over oil. However, it can't just be undone like that now.

This is a big reason why the US shouldn't be there. Let them all waste each other until they find lines themselves they can live with.

Yeah, the Kurds have been brutalized by their neighbors on all sides for centuries. It's time for them to have a Homeland. Probably the only positive to come out of the Iraq War. However, it won't come without a hefty cost. Turkey will likely invade if the Kurds declare Independence. So unfortunately, the Kurds have a ways to go. They'll likely suffer a bit more before gaining complete Independence. But i think it's gonna happen. It's time.

 

[paulitician]

Could be one bright spot in this mess. Looks like the Kurds might finally get their own Homeland. The Kurds are a good trustworthy people. They've been a loyal friend. They seem somewhat sane in an insane part of the World. And they've been brutally oppressed by their neighbors on all sides. I have to root for em. I'd like to see them get their Homeland. God Bless em.

Turkey does not share your opinion. Free Kurdistan would be at war with Turkey within hours of becoming an independent state.

That is true. Turkey would invade immediately. But i think it's time for the Kurds to have their Homeland. They've suffered enough. The Arabs, Turks, and Persians have tormented them for Centuries. I'd like to see em finally prosper.

 

[Katzndogz]

Could be one bright spot in this mess. Looks like the Kurds might finally get their own Homeland. The Kurds are a good trustworthy people. They've been a loyal friend. They seem somewhat sane in an insane part of the World. And they've been brutally oppressed by their neighbors on all sides. I have to root for em. I'd like to see them get their Homeland. God Bless em.

Turkey does not share your opinion. Free Kurdistan would be at war with Turkey within hours of becoming an independent state.

That is true. Turkey would invade immediately. But i think it's time for the Kurds to have their Homeland. They've suffered enough. The Arabs, Turks, and Persians have tormented them for Centuries. I'd like to see em finally prosper.

I have Turkish friends who would gleefully see every Kurd wiped out. To them, the Kurds are just murderous thugs who kill women and children with as much joy as they kill male fighters.

 

[Kondor3]

Could be one bright spot in this mess. Looks like the Kurds might finally get their own Homeland. The Kurds are a good trustworthy people. They've been a loyal friend. They seem somewhat sane in an insane part of the World. And they've been brutally oppressed by their neighbors on all sides. I have to root for em. I'd like to see them get their Homeland. God Bless em.

Turkey does not share your opinion. Free Kurdistan would be at war with Turkey within hours of becoming an independent state.

That is true. Turkey would invade immediately. But i think it's time for the Kurds to have their Homeland. They've suffered enough. The Arabs, Turks, and Persians have tormented them for Centuries. I'd like to see em finally prosper.

I agree with your perspective on the Kurds.

It's just that such nation-erecting commentary takes me by surprise, coming from a Paulite.

I've always operated under the (mistaken?) impression that ya'll are fairly insistent isolationist types, except on the highest macro level(s).

But, an independent Kurdish State may be an idea whose time has come.

It would mean some existing country(ies) or another (Turkey, mostly, I seem to recall) giving-up some land, and it would probably involve some population-transfers from and to various regions, and could probably only be done peaceably via the UN, but it would be an interesting exercise in political creativity.

But nations (Turkey, or anyone else) don't give-up large tracts of land without a whole lot of convincing, and getting them (and others?) to agree might prove... well, let's say... problematic.

 

[Kondor3]

Turkey does not share your opinion. Free Kurdistan would be at war with Turkey within hours of becoming an independent state.

That is true. Turkey would invade immediately. But i think it's time for the Kurds to have their Homeland. They've suffered enough. The Arabs, Turks, and Persians have tormented them for Centuries. I'd like to see em finally prosper.

I have Turkish friends who would gleefully see every Kurd wiped out. To them, the Kurds are just murderous thugs who kill women and children with as much joy as they kill male fighters.

I'm about as ignorant of the Turkish-Kurdish history and present situation as one can be without falling off the intellectual map.

I've always thought of the Kurds as another Turkey-Armenians kind of situation, wherein the Turks have been heavily (sometimes, violently) repressing the Kurds for generations, stretching back far into Ottoman times, with the Kurds having a sufficient binding identity and persistence to continue to remain a thorn in the Turkish side for a very long time.

Many Westerners sympathize with the Armenians while still thinking of the Turks as friends and allies.

It's my perception that many Westerners sympathize with the Kurds, too, while still thinking of the Turks as friends and allies.

Albeit with the caveat that the Kurds have taken to terror tactics as a component of their continuing struggle against the Turks, and that Westerners, as a rule, do not approve of terror tactics.

Did I get it right?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Steinlight and others above blame Saddam, the Jews, Khomeini, Mickey Mouse, the American neo-cons, whomever, for the problems in the ME.

Does not matter. Let the Islamic beast bleed itself.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, idiots trade five dangerous mass murderers for one common deserter.

Stupid comment is out of context without comparing it to the 151 fighters released by Bush who went back to the battle.

Deserter? Maybe. And we can wait for the results of an Article 32 investigation for that.

Anyone who takes paralegal courses in legal briefing and shepardizing know not to cherry pick cases because the argument will be deflated.

 

[kaz]

Randomly drawing borders after WWI is part of the problem. The whole area used to be "Persia".

No ME nation is going to allow america...or anyone else.... to redraw their borders.

Yes, the Kurds got screwed in Paris and the Sunnis and Shiites were put there by the British over oil. However, it can't just be undone like that now.

This is a big reason why the US shouldn't be there. Let them all waste each other until they find lines themselves they can live with.

Yeah, the Kurds have been brutalized by their neighbors on all sides for centuries. It's time for them to have a Homeland. Probably the only positive to come out of the Iraq War. However, it won't come without a hefty cost. Turkey will likely invade if the Kurds declare Independence. So unfortunately, the Kurds have a ways to go. They'll likely suffer a bit more before gaining complete Independence. But i think it's gonna happen. It's time.

I agree with you that the Kurds should have a homeland. However, you're not suggesting it's the job of the United States to create it, are you?

 

[kaz]

No, idiots trade five dangerous mass murderers for one common deserter.

Stupid comment is out of context without comparing it to the 151 fighters released by Bush who went back to the battle.

Deserter? Maybe. And we can wait for the results of an Article 32 investigation for that.

Anyone who takes paralegal courses in legal briefing and shepardizing know not to cherry pick cases because the argument will be deflated.

W is not President anymore, Homey. It's time for Democrats to stand up and take responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming everyone else. Obama's been President 5 1/2 years now. You wanted him, you got him, you own him and his actions now.

 

[kaz]

[I'm about as ignorant of the Turkish-Kurdish history and present situation as one can be without falling off the intellectual map.

I've always thought of the Kurds as another Turkey-Armenians kind of situation, wherein the Turks have been heavily (sometimes, violently) repressing the Kurds for generations, stretching back far into Ottoman times, with the Kurds having a sufficient binding identity and persistence to continue to remain a thorn in the Turkish side for a very long time.

Many Westerners sympathize with the Armenians while still thinking of the Turks as friends and allies.

It's my perception that many Westerners sympathize with the Kurds, too, while still thinking of the Turks as friends and allies.

Albeit with the caveat that the Kurds have taken to terror tactics as a component of their continuing struggle against the Turks, and that Westerners, as a rule, do not approve of terror tactics.

Did I get it right?

In Paris in 1919, the nations of the world got together and redrew the map of the world. The middle east was basically split between the French and the English. The English particularly wanted oil. The lines made little sense in the Middle East.

The Kurds got split up into Turkey, Iraq, Syria and I believe a little piece in Iran. On the other hand, the British took the oil areas and stuck them together under Iraq with no historical significance.

Over time, the French and British both withdrew and we replaced them everywhere, which is how we ended up owning the whole ball of shit. We need to stop and get out.

 

[Katzndogz]

No, idiots trade five dangerous mass murderers for one common deserter.

Stupid comment is out of context without comparing it to the 151 fighters released by Bush who went back to the battle.

Deserter? Maybe. And we can wait for the results of an Article 32 investigation for that.

Anyone who takes paralegal courses in legal briefing and shepardizing know not to cherry pick cases because the argument will be deflated.

Following your logic that Bush acted in error in releasing 151 fighters who went back to the battle does it make sense to release the top commanders so they can go back to the battle too? Is Bush just an excuse to do something even worse. So Bush released 151 men who would shoot at our military and get shot themselves. obama released the man who is now head of ISIS. Instead of running around with a rifle taking pot shots, this man is killing thousands. To compound that, we just released five of the top commanders necessary to conduct even more terrorist actions. The excuse is still Bush released 151 fighters. Nope. Not gonna buy it.