Iraq is imploding. Should we lend air support or wash our hands?

[kaz]

Iraq needs to be broken up into separate countries, just like we did with Yugoslavia.

One for the Shia, one for the Sunni, and one for the Kurds.

Try to draw that map...

 

[Pheonixops]

With all due respect Phoenix Ops we are not dealing with a Sunni insurgency as so many on the left tried to portray this invasion of Iraq earlier today.

Oh no no no. We are talking a terrorist army of reportedly 12,000 who had the ability to over run Tikrit and Mosul scoring $400 million plus along the way to now become the richest terror group on the planet.

They are ISIS and Levant whose leader makes Bin Laden look as tough as Liberace. We are talking pure kick ass psycho rock star of terrorists. His name is Baghdadi.

On the bright side while Obama has been dithering, Iran has come to the rescue of the Iraqi people and most importantly are helping to defend Baghdad.

You have to realize that if this terrorist army truly seizes Iraq and is able to plunder Baghdad for her wealth, destroy the oil fields, have access to all the military hardware we gave Iraq, well hell will rain down on the planet.

Tiny, I don't care if it's a Shiite or Sunni "insurgency", the fact is that they are killing each other and if those folks do win and take over Iraq, we will take care of business if they try to harm us.

I know you don't care, you are a typical ignorant American, you can't bother to discern the mass difference in cultures between sunni and shia and the mass difference in outcome between the Al Maliki government defeating ISIS and ISIS, who are radical islamists, taking over a country with the second largest oil reserves in the region. Not only would they have a base for terrorist operations globally, they would have monetary base with oil resources to finance islamists in Syria, Chechnya, Somalia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. And this is all do the short sighted and interventionist policy of the Obama Administration backing islamists in Syria.

I'm an American and I am not ignorant; I care more for Our country than I care for the country of Iraq. It's all not due to the current Administration's "interventionist policy", this is a conglomeration of this Administration's and the previous Administration's "interventionist policy". If your nightmare scenario happens and they try to come at us, I am all in favor of stomping a mud hole in their asses without ay type of "nation building". If you are so 'concerned about that situation, why would you basically say the same thing that I am saying below?

The only thing we should do is stay out of it and pull funding for the islamist rebels now pouring into Iraq from Syria. If we can stem the flow of weapons to these radicals they might be able to be neutralized once and for all by the Iraqi and Syrian Governments.

My only addition was to let them kill each other and if anyone is left who wants to harm us, we'll take care of them. There are Shiite, Sunni, Wahabbists, etc. that have no good feelings for Our country.

 

[Kondor3]

Iraq needs to be broken up into separate countries, just like we did with Yugoslavia.

One for the Shia, one for the Sunni, and one for the Kurds.

Try to draw that map...

Kurds to the North...

Shiites in the Middle...

Sunnis in the South?

 

[Rotagilla]

email the state department. There's still time to avert this crisis.

 

[Care4all]

Let Iraq and Iran duke it out? That would keep Iran busy for a while, no?

 

[georgephillip]

Iraq needs to be broken up into separate countries, just like we did with Yugoslavia.

One for the Shia, one for the Sunni, and one for the Kurds.

Try to draw that map...

Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters already has

"The map of the 'New Middle East' was a key element in the retired Lieutenant-Colonel’s book, Never Quit the Fight, which was released to the public on July 10, 2006.

"This map of a redrawn Middle East was also published, under the title of Blood Borders: How a better Middle East would look, in the U.S. military’s Armed Forces Journal with commentary from Ralph Peters.5

"It should be noted that Lieutenant-Colonel Peters was last posted to the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, within the U.S. Defence Department, and has been one of the Pentagon’s foremost authors with numerous essays on strategy for military journals and U.S. foreign policy.

"It has been written that Ralph Peters’ 'four previous books on strategy have been highly influential in government and military circles,' but one can be pardoned for asking if in fact quite the opposite could be taking place.

"Could it be Lieutenant-Colonel Peters is revealing and putting forward what Washington D.C. and its strategic planners have anticipated for the Middle East?

"The concept of a redrawn Middle East has been presented as a 'humanitarian' and 'righteous' arrangement that would benefit the people(s) of the Middle East and its peripheral regions. According to Ralph Peter’s:

"'International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.'"

Plans for Redrawing the Middle East: The Project for a ?New Middle East? | Global Research

 

[Rotagilla]

Iraq needs to be broken up into separate countries, just like we did with Yugoslavia.

One for the Shia, one for the Sunni, and one for the Kurds.

Try to draw that map...

Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters already has

"The map of the 'New Middle East' was a key element in the retired Lieutenant-Colonel’s book, Never Quit the Fight, which was released to the public on July 10, 2006.

"This map of a redrawn Middle East was also published, under the title of Blood Borders: How a better Middle East would look, in the U.S. military’s Armed Forces Journal with commentary from Ralph Peters.5

"It should be noted that Lieutenant-Colonel Peters was last posted to the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, within the U.S. Defence Department, and has been one of the Pentagon’s foremost authors with numerous essays on strategy for military journals and U.S. foreign policy.

"It has been written that Ralph Peters’ 'four previous books on strategy have been highly influential in government and military circles,' but one can be pardoned for asking if in fact quite the opposite could be taking place.

"Could it be Lieutenant-Colonel Peters is revealing and putting forward what Washington D.C. and its strategic planners have anticipated for the Middle East?

"The concept of a redrawn Middle East has been presented as a 'humanitarian' and 'righteous' arrangement that would benefit the people(s) of the Middle East and its peripheral regions. According to Ralph Peter’s:

"'International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.'"

Plans for Redrawing the Middle East: The Project for a ?New Middle East? | Global Research

Randomly drawing borders after WWI is part of the problem. The whole area used to be "Persia".

No ME nation is going to allow america...or anyone else.... to redraw their borders.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Should we lend air support

No, Iran is going to intervene with Iraqi acquiescence to prevent Baghdad falling.

Let them bleed the pan-jihadist beat.

The bushies fucked up, and we have no need to jump back in.

 

[Steinlight]

I didn't say I didn't read them Zippy, I just didn't bother quoting each one. Not one connected US to intentionally arming the ISIS, period. You're counting on lazy folks who see your multiple posts of the exact same thing as true without checking.

Didn't bother with them is different didn't bother quoting. But the point is, if you read those, and keep holding your line we aren't arming islamists, than you are a bold faced liar covering for the administration.
CIA Weapons Going To Jihadists in Syria - Business Insider
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/w...rms-sent-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=all
The US Is Arming Jihadists In Syria - Business Insider

some more articles.

You can't spin this away, weapons are going from America to Islamists in Syria(including ISIS), and they are using these weapons to overthrow the Iraqi Government. More US intervention leading to blowback. Typical consequence of neo-con-neo-lib intervention.

The spin is all yours. These are old stories. Weapons are going to Islamist in Syria via Qatar and Saudi Arabia. Despite the CIA's precaution several groups we don't want to are still getting weapons. Nothing to suggest that the arming of ISIS was the goal of the US Government. Some of the weapons are from Croatia according to one of those I think. But I'm not surprised that our "Friends" in Saudi Arabia would try and stab us in the back again but you've got to expect shit like that when you're the worlds leading exporter of weapons..........We've sold lot of Weapons to the House of Saud haven't we?

Wrong, we have now proof in those links of US/Saudi intelligence encouraging Syrian Free Army to hand over weapons to more effective rebel Islamists(ISIS and Al Nusra), we have evidence of the US under Obama giving weapons to Saudi Arabia and Qatar knowing they give them to Islamists(ISIS and Al Nusra), the the CIA is helping move and fund Saudi/Qatari Weapons into Syria, and the Islamists(Al Nusra and ISIS) are seizing US weapons stores initially given to moderates.

So Obama's reckless intervention on the side of known Islamists in Syria is what brought us to this point. Certainly Bush shares blame for toppling Saddam and replacing it with a weak central government. But Obama bears the responsibility for putting the weak Iraqi state into a situation where it cant adequately defend itself against ISIS.

Sorry, can't just blame Bush here, or deflect to the Saudis, the current American government shares as much blame, and you won't get away with obfuscating the situation by pretending Obama is some anti-war peacenick. He is as much of a rabid interventionist as the others and is experiencing what we call blowback.

The only major politician that opposed the Syrian intervention before leaving the house was Ron Paul and to a lesser extent Rand Paul. They warned arming islamists could destabilize the region and they were right. They were the only ones who were right on both counts. The Pauls not only opposed intervention in Iraq but also in Syria.

 

[georgephillip]

Should we lend air support

No, Iran is going to intervene with Iraqi acquiescence to prevent Baghdad falling.

Let them bleed the pan-jihadist beat.

The bushies fucked up, and we have no need to jump back in.

Should we make all congressional incumbents who voted for the invasion of Iraq pay at the polls next November?

 

[Steinlight]

Good on Iran. They have been a great example of a power trying to bring stability to the region by fighting these radical sunni islamists in Syria and now Iraq.

 

[georgephillip]

Try to draw that map...

Lt. Colonel Ralph Peters already has

"The map of the 'New Middle East' was a key element in the retired Lieutenant-Colonel’s book, Never Quit the Fight, which was released to the public on July 10, 2006.

"This map of a redrawn Middle East was also published, under the title of Blood Borders: How a better Middle East would look, in the U.S. military’s Armed Forces Journal with commentary from Ralph Peters.5

"It should be noted that Lieutenant-Colonel Peters was last posted to the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, within the U.S. Defence Department, and has been one of the Pentagon’s foremost authors with numerous essays on strategy for military journals and U.S. foreign policy.

"It has been written that Ralph Peters’ 'four previous books on strategy have been highly influential in government and military circles,' but one can be pardoned for asking if in fact quite the opposite could be taking place.

"Could it be Lieutenant-Colonel Peters is revealing and putting forward what Washington D.C. and its strategic planners have anticipated for the Middle East?

"The concept of a redrawn Middle East has been presented as a 'humanitarian' and 'righteous' arrangement that would benefit the people(s) of the Middle East and its peripheral regions. According to Ralph Peter’s:

"'International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.'"

Plans for Redrawing the Middle East: The Project for a ?New Middle East? | Global Research

Randomly drawing borders after WWI is part of the problem. The whole area used to be "Persia".

No ME nation is going to allow america...or anyone else.... to redraw their borders.

If you find Wesley Clark credible, he laid out a Pentagon plan that was already decided upon in November of 2001; it called for regime change in seven Muslim states in five years, starting with Iraq then Lebanon, Libya, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, and finishing off with Iran.

The US launched the invasion of Iraq in 2003, and three years later Israel invaded Lebanon, probably with the intention of occupying the neighboring country as far north as the Litani river. This was something the IDF had accomplished in the past; however, in 2006 Hezbollah was able to repel the invasion.

The Arab Spring kicked off in Tunisia and Egypt, and then NATO took care of Libya.
Last August, Obama couldn't deliver regime change in Syria.
The poll on this board was something like 95% against military action.

I'm pretty sure what we're seeing today in Iraq, Syria, and Iran is a plan to redraw those borders regardless of the cost in human suffering.

"The 'New Middle East' project was introduced publicly by Washington and Tel Aviv with the expectation that Lebanon would be the pressure point for realigning the whole Middle East and thereby unleashing the forces of 'constructive chaos.'

"This 'constructive chaos' –which generates conditions of violence and warfare throughout the region– would in turn be used so that the United States, Britain, and Israel could redraw the map of the Middle East in accordance with their geo-strategic needs and objectives."

Plans for Redrawing the Middle East: The Project for a ?New Middle East? | Global Research

 

[JakeStarkey]

Should we lend air support

No, Iran is going to intervene with Iraqi acquiescence to prevent Baghdad falling.

Let them bleed the pan-jihadist beat.

The bushies fucked up, and we have no need to jump back in.

Should we make all congressional incumbents who voted for the invasion of Iraq pay at the polls next November?

Everyone who voted for invading Iraq should go, dem and repub, that are still in Congress, yes.

We have no business or interest to fly air cover for a joint Iraq Iran defense of Baghdad.

This insanity is where Bush's stupid information and the Congress's gutless decision led us.

 

[georgephillip]

Should we lend air support

No, Iran is going to intervene with Iraqi acquiescence to prevent Baghdad falling.

Let them bleed the pan-jihadist beat.

The bushies fucked up, and we have no need to jump back in.

Should we make all congressional incumbents who voted for the invasion of Iraq pay at the polls next November?

Everyone who voted for invading Iraq should go, dem and repub, that are still in Congress, yes.

We have no business or interest to fly air cover for a joint Iraq Iran defense of Baghdad.

This insanity is where Bush's stupid information and the Congress's gutless decision led us.

And we probably haven't seen the worst of it yet.
We are creating literally hundreds of thousands of enemies across the Muslim world, and the blowback from that could bring much of the misery we see today in Iraq and Syria home with a vengence.
If we see another 911 attack on the homeland, we can probably say "goodbye" to what's left of our civil rights and our republic.
Three hundred million guns are loaded...Satan cries "take aim."

 

[U2Edge]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

Absolutely the United States and other countries should help. Why let a terrorist organization like ISIS win and threaten the world. Don't make the mistake that the United States did in Vietnam and abandon a country to tyranny.

 

[Katzndogz]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

Absolutely the United States and other countries should help. Why let a terrorist organization like ISIS win and threaten the world. Don't make the mistake that the United States did in Vietnam and abandon a country to tyranny.

We don't have the leadership to do anything. obama cannot put together a coalition of forces. No one trusts him. obama decapitated our own military leaders by firing over 300 generals and commanders in a competency purge.

 

[georgephillip]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

Absolutely the United States and other countries should help. Why let a terrorist organization like ISIS win and threaten the world. Don't make the mistake that the United States did in Vietnam and abandon a country to tyranny.

Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World, remember?
Why would you think more killing, maiming, and displacing will solve the problem created by the USofA?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

Absolutely the United States and other countries should help. Why let a terrorist organization like ISIS win and threaten the world. Don't make the mistake that the United States did in Vietnam and abandon a country to tyranny.

We don't have the leadership to do anything. obama cannot put together a coalition of forces. No one trusts him. obama decapitated our own military leaders by firing over 300 generals and commanders in a competency purge.

Katzndogz is not telling you that our allies fear, hate, and distrust America's far right, the very folks like Katzndogz.

Our allies want to make sure our far right has nothing to do with foreign policy making.

Damn right.

 

[Katzndogz]

Absolutely the United States and other countries should help. Why let a terrorist organization like ISIS win and threaten the world. Don't make the mistake that the United States did in Vietnam and abandon a country to tyranny.

We don't have the leadership to do anything. obama cannot put together a coalition of forces. No one trusts him. obama decapitated our own military leaders by firing over 300 generals and commanders in a competency purge.

Katzndogz is not telling you that our allies fear, hate, and distrust America's far right, the very folks like Katzndogz.

Our allies want to make sure our far right has nothing to do with foreign policy making.

Damn right.

No one is talking to obama. Even David Cameron told him no.

We don't have any allies.

 

[Steinlight]

Iran is a agent of stability in the region, the US, Saudi, and the Gulf States are agents of chaos(who have created Frankenstein monster in ISIS they lost control of). Who would have thought considering the mainstream media narrative about Iran.