Iraq is imploding. Should we lend air support or wash our hands?

[paulitician]

Looks like the Kurds and Iran are making their moves. Things are gonna get much uglier over there. What an awful mess.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I'm a bit confused. It's being reported that 3 battalions from IRAN are going in to fight FOR the government of Iraq.

 

[georgephillip]

What? You're trying to be funny?
North, Central, or South?
Very clever.

How the flip do you expect me to know?
It says Americans. I don't know how many are from Montana, I don't know how many of them have brown hair, I don't know their education, military experience, age, marital status, what kind of car they drive, I don't know if they're naturalized or native born.......All I know is the article says 200 "Americans"

The point I'm trying to make is simply this: if they are US citizens as opposed to "hired guns" from South or Central America, Obama will pay a much higher political price for letting them die.

Oh?
Are there a lot of mercs from mexico, central america and/or south america working for the u.s.in Iraq?

I think Academi, for example (and others) is WELL known for having "operators" in the ME/Iraq.

I'll have to research this to be sure; however, it's widely believed on the left that when the US pulled its troops from Iraq the security burden fell to private contractors who recruited heavily outside the US. Academi, for example, has been criticized by these sources for hiring from the Colombian Armed Forces.

I can't imagine Obama could get away with allowing 200 US citizens of any ethnicity to be killed or captured by ISIL.


"US companies were Thursday evacuating hundreds of Americans working with the Iraqi government from a major air base, US officials said, as Islamic militants swept towards Baghdad.

"A US defense official confirmed that 'a few hundred' American contractors from Balad air base, 80 kilometers (50 miles) north of the capital, were being moved to Baghdad for security reasons.

Americans Evacuated From Balad Near Baghdad - Business Insider

 

[Rotagilla]

The point I'm trying to make is simply this: if they are US citizens as opposed to "hired guns" from South or Central America, Obama will pay a much higher political price for letting them die.

Oh?
Are there a lot of mercs from mexico, central america and/or south america working for the u.s.in Iraq?

I think Academi, for example (and others) is WELL known for having "operators" in the ME/Iraq.

I'll have to research this to be sure; however, it's widely believed on the left that when the US pulled its troops from Iraq the security burden fell to private contractors who recruited heavily outside the US. Academi, for example, has been criticized by these sources for hiring from the Colombian Armed Forces.

I can't imagine Obama could get away with allowing 200 US citizens of any ethnicity to be killed or captured by ISIL.


"US companies were Thursday evacuating hundreds of Americans working with the Iraqi government from a major air base, US officials said, as Islamic militants swept towards Baghdad.

"A US defense official confirmed that 'a few hundred' American contractors from Balad air base, 80 kilometers (50 miles) north of the capital, were being moved to Baghdad for security reasons.

Americans Evacuated From Balad Near Baghdad - Business Insider

I agree with all of that.
There are a lot of brit mercs as well. Who knows?
All I was going by was it said "American contractors"

 

[emilynghiem]

I have mixed feelings on this.

On one hand the middle east is a cesspool of savages and I just wish they would all kill each other off.

On the other hand do we stand by and let these savages gain control of a nation from which they would gain military assets to use against us?

Ignoring them won't make them leave us alone so whats the solution?

To sort out who's who, we need and should have always listened to the people at the bottom not the political leaders at the top.

The local clergy, nonprofits, community and academic leaders closest to the people
are who should be organized and consulted to reinforce them. The ones who have been serving the people during crisis and warfare, not benefitting off the war and contracts.

The people holding the nation and populations together are the ones
who KNOW what they need and don't need to protect their democratic citizenry.

The peace and justice networks worldwide tend to know who is who,
and who is a fake and who is "funding terrorists to take over so they can benefit politically from the collapse."

The military who have been building or rebuilding infrastructure who have good working relations with the local leadership
should also be able to use those contacts to reinforce the REAL representation of the Iraqi people, not the oppressors in the way.

Remember those people are victims also of the same terrorist militants taking over and hijacking control of the govt and country.

We have to stop this trend of "collectively punishing" the innocent victims and civilian populations along with the terrorists and political hacks who are the real problem.

There are more good people than bad. We don't need to wipe out a whole country just to get to the political hijackers.
We need to listen to the people at the bottom who know who is really in charge of protecting their lives and democratic interests, and reinforce THOSE relations and institutions.

I guess the reason our political leaders can't do this very well, is that we politically punish "whole parties and populations" of our own citizens to retaliate against the corrupt party leaders.
I guess it will take community leaders in both countries, not the political leaders, who work from the bottom up not the top down, to stop this collective punishment by whole groups.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I'm a bit confused. It's being reported that 3 battalions from IRAN are going in to fight FOR the government of Iraq.

Why is that confusing?

 

[Desperado]

Mercs in trouble.
I wonder if they're Academi?

200 U.S. contractors surrounded by jihadists in Iraq

NEW YORK – About 200 Americans under contract with the Department of Defense at Balad Air Force Base in Iraq are trapped by the al-Qaida-inspired jihadists who have seized control of two cities and are now threatening Baghdad, according to WND sources.

Maybe they can make it to our US Embassy in Iraq? You know the one: At 440,000 square meters, it is the largest and most expensive embassy in the world and is nearly as large as Vatican City. It employs 15,000 people and cost $750 million to build.
Looks like even that is on shaky ground.

 

[Samson]

I'm a bit confused. It's being reported that 3 battalions from IRAN are going in to fight FOR the government of Iraq.

Why is that confusing?

Grampa is living in 1985.

 

[Samson]

Mercs in trouble.
I wonder if they're Academi?

200 U.S. contractors surrounded by jihadists in Iraq

NEW YORK – About 200 Americans under contract with the Department of Defense at Balad Air Force Base in Iraq are trapped by the al-Qaida-inspired jihadists who have seized control of two cities and are now threatening Baghdad, according to WND sources.

Maybe they can make it to our US Embassy in Iraq? You know the one: At 440,000 square meters, it is the largest and most expensive embassy in the world and is nearly as large as Vatican City. It employs 15,000 people and cost $750 million to build.
Looks like even that is on shaky ground.

Hope the embassador makes it this time......Obama doesn't need another failure to protect american diplomats.

 

[BlindBoo]

Of course you don't bother with the other links. You just did the same thing synthaholic did. Small arms to islamists don't count as REAL weapons in your deluded mind. Interesting your not bothered by the giving weapons to Islamists part, you are just saying, well it's not as bad as it could be, we could be giving terrorist REAL weapons. And you won't read the other links that challenge your worldview, that things other than small arms(which would count as weapons in your mind) are being given to Islamists.

You are intellectually lazy and dishonest.

I didn't say I didn't read them Zippy, I just didn't bother quoting each one. Not one connected US to intentionally arming the ISIS, period. You're counting on lazy folks who see your multiple posts of the exact same thing as true without checking.

Didn't bother with them is different didn't bother quoting. But the point is, if you read those, and keep holding your line we aren't arming islamists, than you are a bold faced liar covering for the administration.
CIA Weapons Going To Jihadists in Syria - Business Insider
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/w...rms-sent-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=all
The US Is Arming Jihadists In Syria - Business Insider

some more articles.

You can't spin this away, weapons are going from America to Islamists in Syria(including ISIS), and they are using these weapons to overthrow the Iraqi Government. More US intervention leading to blowback. Typical consequence of neo-con-neo-lib intervention.

The spin is all yours. These are old stories. Weapons are going to Islamist in Syria via Qatar and Saudi Arabia. Despite the CIA's precaution several groups we don't want to are still getting weapons. Nothing to suggest that the arming of ISIS was the goal of the US Government. Some of the weapons are from Croatia according to one of those I think. But I'm not surprised that our "Friends" in Saudi Arabia would try and stab us in the back again but you've got to expect shit like that when you're the worlds leading exporter of weapons..........We've sold lot of Weapons to the House of Saud haven't we?

 

[paulitician]

I'm a bit confused. It's being reported that 3 battalions from IRAN are going in to fight FOR the government of Iraq.

Yeah, they've been invited in. They're gonna try to hold Baghdad. Iran is really enjoying this. They've been given a gift. It's a sad Catch 22 for us over there. Who do you support in this mess?...Iran and the Iranian-backed Iraqi Government, or the Sunni Al Qaeda-led Rebels? Pretty bad choice. It's a No-Win scenario for Americans.

And now the Kurds are making their move too. They've taken the oil-rich city of Kirkuk. Once they declare Independence, it'll be all-out War with Turkey. So the Blow Back is gonna get even worse over there. It's very sad.

 

[GHook93]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

No!!! We should hope that Iran steps in and takes on Al Qaeda. Then Al Qaeda declares jihad on Iran and then hopefully they kill many of each other!

 

[depotoo]

Mercs in trouble.
I wonder if they're Academi?

200 U.S. contractors surrounded by jihadists in Iraq

NEW YORK – About 200 Americans under contract with the Department of Defense at Balad Air Force Base in Iraq are trapped by the al-Qaida-inspired jihadists who have seized control of two cities and are now threatening Baghdad, according to WND sources.

The sources, private contractors who have recently returned to the U.S. from Iraq, said Friday their former colleagues effectively have been abandoned by the U.S. military and are fighting for their lives against an army of jihadists surrounding the base who belong to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS.

The U.S. contractors are at Balad to help the Pentagon prepare the facilities for the delivery of the F-16 aircraft the Obama administration has agreed to provide the Iraqi government.

The surrounded Americans said they currently are under ISIS fire from small arms, AK47s, and rocket propelled grenades, or RPGs.

The contractors so far have been able to hold the base, but those on the scene reported it was only a matter of time before the ISIS terrorists succeed in breaking through the perimeter. They expressed concern that they would be ab

WND has learned from sources that the jihadists have closed down escape routes, and the U.S. Air Force is in a stand-down position. U.S. forces are not assisting even with air cover so a private extradition flight could land for a rescue, the sources said.

So much for no american troops in Iraq.

If they are private mercs they don't count, right guys?

Why does this remind me of Benghazi?

 

[Political Junky]

No

 

[Chris]

Iraq needs to be broken up into separate countries, just like we did with Yugoslavia.

One for the Shia, one for the Sunni, and one for the Kurds.

 

[depotoo]

News is they hit a bank on the way to Baghdad and got themselves $400,000,000 cash. 400 million.

 

[Dot Com]

Iraq needs to be broken up into separate countries, just like we did with Yugoslavia.

One for the Shia, one for the Sunni, and one for the Kurds.

yep, I called for that years ago as did one or two pols. Thing is ALL of them want Kirkuk so thats why all, but the kurds, are in no hurry to separate

 

[Rotagilla]

Iraq needs to be broken up into separate countries, just like we did with Yugoslavia.

One for the Shia, one for the Sunni, and one for the Kurds.

Who is "we"?

 

[Pheonixops]

It's quite foolish to assume that these guys aren't focused on doing us harm. Just look at how they responded to the Bergdahl trade. They vowed to start abducting Americans for ransom in exchange for their own fighters.

Obama's foreign policy on Iraq is like putting a pot of water on a rolling boil, then putting it on simmer in hopes it will stop boiling altogether.

No, it's not foolish at all. If they are fighting and killing each other in their country, they aren't concerned about us now. You are mixing up the Iraqis and the Afghans. That has been their goal all along.

How did Obama make Iraq get into a boil? He didn't initiate the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

If it weren't for Obama funding and supplying islamists(al nusra and isis) in Syria, this civil war in Iraq would not be occurring. Without US support these radical islamists who have now spilled into Iraq from the Syria would not exist as they would have been liquidated by Assad long ago.

Bush bares the blame for the establishment of the weak puppet government in Iraq, Obama bares the responsibility for its overthrow. Both administrations have royally screwed Iraq.

The only thing we should do is stay out of it and pull funding for the islamist rebels now pouring into Iraq from Syria. If we can stem the flow of weapons to these radicals they might be able to be neutralized once and for all by the Iraqi and Syrian Governments.

I don't think that we should have sent anything to those rebels, I feel that more times than not, Our intervention backfires on us. How do you get an ISIS connection from this:
" The US is “the single largest contributor of humanitarian assistance, providing over $1.7 billion” in assistance, Rice told CNN.

“That’s why the United States has ramped up its support for the moderate vetted opposition, providing lethal and nonlethal support where we can to support both the civilian opposition and the military opposition,” she said. "

The rest of the article is pretty damning if it's true.

I agree that we should stay out of it. I agree that we should not be funding ANYBODY over there.

 

[Kondor3]

Iraq is already FUBAR, people.

Step away.

Wash your hands.

Wait to see who's the Last Man Standing, after this particular tidal-wave of Islamic violence finds its level.