Iraq is imploding. Should we lend air support or wash our hands?

[tinydancer]

Walk away...

Fuck 'em...

To hell with the oil...

To hell with our pledge to assist...

To hell with our dashed and moronic hopes for nation-building...

They don't have it in 'em, to govern without brutal overcoming of one faction by another...

Let 'em sink back into the cesspool...

To hell with Iraq...

We have forgotten how to win a war, then walk away, and leave the place to shift for itself...

Time to re-learn that lesson...

Things will sort themselves out one way or another, without our help...

If the UN wants to go in there and fix it, that's fine...

We can contribute our share of logistical and financial support, but that's it...

Not one more bomb or cannon-shell or bullet...

Not one more American dollar...

Not one more drop of American blood...

We can always turn the place into a pile of rubble, if they ever make a move on us or our interests...

Vietnam taught us to identify and act-upon the Point-of-Diminishing-Returns, after which we were pouring good money (and blood) after bad, to no good purpose nor likely prospect for success...

Let us remember that lesson, now, and act upon that memory...

Iraq is a hopeless tangle, due in part to our own interference, and due in very large part to their own twisted culture and religious zeal...

Trying to plant democracy in such shit-holes is akin to the pearls-before-swine metaphor...

Ultimately, they just haven't got it in 'em; certainly, not to an extent where they're willing to effectively defend it themselves...

So...

Fuck 'em...

Just walk away...

Normally we are on the same page but I have to disagree with you on this one. And with all due respect here is why.

If ISIS and Levant take over Baghdad and consequently conquer the rest of Iraq we've got hell on earth coming our way.

These terrorists truly make Al Qaeda look like choir boys. Think about it. This is an army of vicious terrorists reportedly 12,000 strong.

They already took over Mosul and Tikrit. Releasing more terrorists along the way who are no doubt joining up with them.

On top of that they have raided the banks and already have over $400 million dollars at their disposal now.

So if they are successful in taking Baghdad .......

 

[BlindBoo]

Ah the same out of context (lies) quotes that healthmyth continuously posts.

No lies and how is "we have lost the war" OUT OF CONTEXT. in other words you really have no argument.

Whenever a lib cannot control the narrative and their play book does not offer them a canned response, they resort to "out of context" or "you are a liar"...
So childish.

At least get the out of context quote correct! He was screaming at the top of his lungs

"The War is Lost" running up and down the Senate Chambers "The War is Lost"

Not "we have lost the war", "we have lost the war".

That's just silly. Well not as silly as thinking he only said either one but I know you don't really care that the words immediately preceding those 4 words were something like "If we don't change course in Iraq Mr. President, the war is lost" But I can't help you there.

 

[Zander]

It's time for the Iraqi's to take care of themselves.

We should help the nation of "Kurdistan" become a reality.... and then arm them to the teeth.

 

[tinydancer]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

And if we get involved again, then it'll just be a matter of time before we have to make the same choice again, and again and again...

I don't think we have an option at this point kaz. If Baghdadi and ISIS capture Baghdad.

You know what it just makes my head explode thinking of the consequences if we allow this to happen.

 

[Steinlight]

Walk away...

Fuck 'em...

To hell with the oil...

To hell with our pledge to assist...

To hell with our dashed and moronic hopes for nation-building...

They don't have it in 'em, to govern without brutal overcoming of one faction by another...

Let 'em sink back into the cesspool...

To hell with Iraq...

We have forgotten how to win a war, then walk away, and leave the place to shift for itself...

Time to re-learn that lesson...

Things will sort themselves out one way or another, without our help...

If the UN wants to go in there and fix it, that's fine...

We can contribute our share of logistical and financial support, but that's it...

Not one more bomb or cannon-shell or bullet...

Not one more American dollar...

Not one more drop of American blood...

We can always turn the place into a pile of rubble, if they ever make a move on us or our interests...

Vietnam taught us to identify and act-upon the Point-of-Diminishing-Returns, after which we were pouring good money (and blood) after bad, to no good purpose nor likely prospect for success...

Let us remember that lesson, now, and act upon that memory...

Iraq is a hopeless tangle, due in part to our own interference, and due in very large part to their own twisted culture and religious zeal...

Trying to plant democracy in such shit-holes is akin to the pearls-before-swine metaphor...

Ultimately, they just haven't got it in 'em; certainly, not to an extent where they're willing to effectively defend it themselves...

So...

Fuck 'em...

Just walk away...

Normally we are on the same page but I have to disagree with you on this one. And with all due respect here is why.

If ISIS and Levant take over Baghdad and consequently conquer the rest of Iraq we've got hell on earth coming our way.

These terrorists truly make Al Qaeda look like choir boys. Think about it. This is an army of vicious terrorists reportedly 12,000 strong.

They already took over Mosul and Tikrit. Releasing more terrorists along the way who are no doubt joining up with them.

On top of that they have raided the banks and already have over $400 million dollars at their disposal now.

So if they are successful in taking Baghdad .......

They have also taken Baiji, a major oil refining town with power plants that provide electricity to Baghdad and Kirkuk. Iraq is at the height of summer temperatures at the moment. No electricity in the dead of Iraqi summer, nothing good comes from this. Expect ISIS to take advantage of this and use this control of power plants as a weapon to create instability in cities not yet captured by them.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/06/11/world/middleeast/isis-control-map.html

 

[PaintMyHouse]

...it just makes my head explode thinking of the consequences if we allow this to happen.

Funny, I'm the exact opposite.

 

[Paperman299]

Where did I paint all atheists with the same broad brush? I did no such thing. Stay on topic, this isn't about your belief or lack there of in a deity. This is about the US intervention turning an entire region upside down.

Fucking faggot ass dumbshit atheist, you disgust me

lol, you brought up atheists. No one else. And don't act innocent when you've put "atheist" as the insult that caps off a string of insults.

You want to talk about the Middle East, talk about the Middle East.

Sorry I hurt your feelings, you atheist faggot. Believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around your feels. Not all atheists are faggots, but most on the internet certainly are

Stop derailing the thread you liberal piece of shit.

Funny how "derailing the thread" is synonymous with "calling out my hypocrisy." But since you couldn't keep up your facade of holding no bigotry against non-religious types for even one post, by all means. Get back to spewing just as much vitriol at people in this thread for completely on-topic reasons.

 

[Kondor3]

...To hell with Iraq...

Just walk away...

Normally we are on the same page but I have to disagree with you on this one. And with all due respect here is why.

If ISIS and Levant take over Baghdad and consequently conquer the rest of Iraq we've got hell on earth coming our way.

These terrorists truly make Al Qaeda look like choir boys. Think about it. This is an army of vicious terrorists reportedly 12,000 strong.

They already took over Mosul and Tikrit. Releasing more terrorists along the way who are no doubt joining up with them.

On top of that they have raided the banks and already have over $400 million dollars at their disposal now.

So if they are successful in taking Baghdad .......

Yeah, I hear you, TD.

I'm not comfortable with the idea myself.

But I believe that the situation is probably too far gone now to be salvaged.

Case-in-point - the en masse desertions from their national security forces.

If the people will not defend themselves, then we cannot help them, in the long run.

The shades (ghosts) of every one of our fallen boys and girls who died in Vietnam are looking down and pleading with us to remember that hard and bitterly-learned lesson.

If we only allow ourselves to listen.

Personally, and like so many others, I never believed in the Iraq Adventure, even though I shut my mouth and supported our people there, once we had gone in.

I think we've hit that Point of Diminishing Returns with Iraq, and I don't want to burn-through more American lives and more billions of American dollars on a bad bet...

Every so often, you've got to say: To hell with the consequences.

I think we've reached that point with Iraq.

Certainly, with the present Administration's hand on the wheel.

It's rather like asking Jimmy Carter to orchestrate a large-scale intervention.

Someone far better suited to sitting around the campfire and holding hands and singing Kumbaya-My-Lord, than leading a nation during a shooting war.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[tinydancer]

It's time for the Iraqi's to take care of themselves.

We should help the nation of "Kurdistan" become a reality.... and then arm them to the teeth.

If we let Iraq fall to this psycho offshoot of Al Qaeda there's no helping the Kurds. They're toast.

 

[Steinlight]

lol, you brought up atheists. No one else. And don't act innocent when you've put "atheist" as the insult that caps off a string of insults.

You want to talk about the Middle East, talk about the Middle East.

Sorry I hurt your feelings, you atheist faggot. Believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around your feels. Not all atheists are faggots, but most on the internet certainly are

Stop derailing the thread you liberal piece of shit.

Funny how "derailing the thread" is synonymous with "calling out my hypocrisy." But since you couldn't keep up your facade of holding no bigotry against non-religious types for even one post, by all means. Get back to spewing just as much vitriol at people in this thread for completely on-topic reasons.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...support-or-wash-our-hands-10.html#post9254107

Done with you, stop derailing the thread, you are a classic troll. Trying to distract people from disseminating information on the conflict in Iraq.

This is my last response to you.

 

[Steinlight]

Iraqi Parliament has all but dissolved(only a 1/3 showed up for business today) and the Iraqi Army has experienced mass desertions. ISIS is 30 miles outside Baghdad.

LA Times

500,000 people have fled Mosul according to reports as well.

Militants Reportedly Overrun Tikrit, As 500,000 Flee Mosul : The Two-Way : NPR

 

[tinydancer]

...To hell with Iraq...

Just walk away...

Normally we are on the same page but I have to disagree with you on this one. And with all due respect here is why.

If ISIS and Levant take over Baghdad and consequently conquer the rest of Iraq we've got hell on earth coming our way.

These terrorists truly make Al Qaeda look like choir boys. Think about it. This is an army of vicious terrorists reportedly 12,000 strong.

They already took over Mosul and Tikrit. Releasing more terrorists along the way who are no doubt joining up with them.

On top of that they have raided the banks and already have over $400 million dollars at their disposal now.

So if they are successful in taking Baghdad .......

Yeah, I hear you, TD.

I'm not comfortable with the idea myself.

But I believe that the situation is probably too far gone now to be salvaged.

Case-in-point - the en masse desertions from their national security forces.

If the people will not defend themselves, then we cannot help them, in the long run.

The shades (ghosts) of every one of our fallen boys and girls who died in Vietnam are looking down and pleading with us to remember that hard and bitterly-learned lesson.

If we only allow ourselves to listen.

Personally, and like so many others, I never believed in the Iraq Adventure, even though I shut my mouth and supported our people there, once we had gone in.

I think we've hit that Point of No Diminishing Returns with Iraq, and I don't want to burn-through more American lives and more billions of American dollars on a bad bet...

Every so often, you've got to say: To hell with the consequences.

I think we've reached that point with Iraq.

Certainly, with the present Administration's hand on the wheel.

It's rather like asking Jimmy Carter to orchestrate a large-scale intervention.

Someone far better suited to sitting around the campfire and holding hands and singing Kumbaya-My-Lord, than leading a nation during a shooting war.

Your mileage may vary.

It's Baghdadi. They've got over $400 million from Mosul. Terrorists with mega bucks. Answering to no one. Not even Zawahiri.

Obama set him free and has been watching him grow in stature and power in Syria and not doing a damn thing about it.

Iraq was begging for drone strikes since last November. To prevent this invasion.

I don't want to get involved but if we don't stop ISIS now they will not be contained.

 

[Kondor3]

You may very well be right, TD, but this is where I think we will be, in a couple of weeks, perhaps sooner...

I doubt that Teddy Roosevelt could pull this one out of the fire now...

 

[TooTall]

The terrorists are now marching on Bagdad. The Iraq government is asking for help, should we oblige?
Seems strange to me that we would spend all the money & lives just to let it fall in a matter of weeks/months.

So long as Obama gets the blame, I couldn't care less if Iraq implodes. A Democrat will not get elected for the next 40 years if that happens.

Not to worry, stupid. Enough of the country knows the Shrubster caused this shit. Have fun in 2016.

And all this time I thought Bush was merely taking the advice of these two and a dozen more highly regarded Democrats that were in Congress.

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 | Source

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 | Source
snopes.com: Weapons of Mass Destruction Quotes

 

[tinydancer]

Iraqi Parliament has all but dissolved(only a 1/3 showed up for business today) and the Iraqi Army has experienced mass desertions. ISIS is 30 miles outside Baghdad.

LA Times

500,000 people have fled Mosul according to reports as well.

Militants Reportedly Overrun Tikrit, As 500,000 Flee Mosul : The Two-Way : NPR

This is so FUBAR'D my heads spinning faster than Linda Blair's in the Exorcist.

I don't have a warm and fuzzy at the thought of ISIS taking over Iraq.

 

[Steinlight]

Iraqi Parliament has all but dissolved(only a 1/3 showed up for business today) and the Iraqi Army has experienced mass desertions. ISIS is 30 miles outside Baghdad.

LA Times

500,000 people have fled Mosul according to reports as well.

Militants Reportedly Overrun Tikrit, As 500,000 Flee Mosul : The Two-Way : NPR

This is so FUBAR'D my heads spinning faster than Linda Blair's in the Exorcist.

I don't have a warm and fuzzy at the thought of ISIS taking over Iraq.

Don't expect this to end any time soon. According to reports, they control oil fields in the East of Syria, and are using the revenues to finance their operations in Iraq.
ISIS: The al-Qaeda-linked Islamists powerful enough to capture a key Iraqi city - The Washington Post

With US weapons and the ability to self finance, they are poised to take over the country with the second largest oil reserves in the region. For all these years, we talked about a so called Islamic threat in Saddam, the Iranian Regime, Taliban etc. Isn't it ironic we have now created the radical islamic monster in ISIS that we claimed to be fighting all these years. And they by far the biggest threat so far.

Now they have taken control of Iraqis largest oil refinery in Baiji.
Islamist Insurgents Close In On Iraq's Biggest Oil Refinery Day After Assault On Mosul

Now they control 17% of the country's oil fields. ISIS now controls more oil than most of nations of the world. A scary thought to say the least.
ISIL Extends Gains in Iraq, Takes Turk Diplomats Hostage - Bloomberg

Expect instability not only in Iraq. But if ISIS can make a radical islamic state out of Iraq and parts of Syria, expect a massive uptick in radical islamist activity worldwide. Chechnya, Somalia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and a revitalized "arab spring" etc.

 

[Steinlight]

Iranian Forces now in Iraq fighting radical islamist ISIS. You know its a messed up world when the Iranians are the good guys.

Iran Deploys Forces to Fight Militants in Iraq - WSJ

http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/12/report-iranian-troops-already-battling-terrorists-inside-iraq/

 

[tinydancer]

You may very well be right, TD, but this is where I think we will be, in a couple of weeks, perhaps sooner...

I doubt that Teddy Roosevelt could pull this one out of the fire now...

What pisses me off Kondor is that if Obama and his administration hadn't been so hell bent for leather on trying to keep that idiotic narrative that AQ was on the run. AQ was decimated going we wouldn't be here right now.

We wouldn't be witnessing what we are seeing unfold today. Baghdadi has been operating in Syria all this time with Assad trying to fight him and other terrorist groups and paid mercenaries while Obama has turned a blind eye to this massive build up of an AQ ARMY all because for political reasons he wanted Assad gone.

Now we have a virulent terrorist freaking army who are beyond evil now marching on Baghdad.

This was preventable. Check this out. No boots on the ground were needed if instead of dicking around drawing lines in the sand for Putin, Obama actually took care of business somewhere in the freaking world instead of strutting like a banty rooster all the time.

The key to this disaster lies in this Administrations goal to have Assad removed from power. It was more important to them to keep this war in Syria going and being the idiots they are they didn't foresee the spillover into Iraq.

Aye carumba!

Al-Maliki and other Iraqi leaders have pleaded with the Obama administration for more than a year for additional help to combat the growing insurgency, which has been fueled by the unrelenting civil war in neighboring Syria.

Northern Iraq has become a way station for insurgents who routinely travel between the two countries and are seeding the Syrian war's violence in Baghdad and beyond.


'I don't rule out anything': Obama vows to help Iraqis after he's accused of 'taking a nap' while al-Qaeda army marches on Baghdad -- but what can he do? | Mail Online

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You know its a messed up world when the Iranians are the good guys.

You missed the memo I see, there are no good guys.

 

[Siete]

You may very well be right, TD, but this is where I think we will be, in a couple of weeks, perhaps sooner...

I doubt that Teddy Roosevelt could pull this one out of the fire now...

What pisses me off Kondor is that if Obama and his administration hadn't been so hell bent for leather on trying to keep that idiotic narrative that AQ was on the run. AQ was decimated going we wouldn't be here right now.

We wouldn't be witnessing what we are seeing unfold today. Baghdadi has been operating in Syria all this time with Assad trying to fight him and other terrorist groups and paid mercenaries while Obama has turned a blind eye to this massive build up of an AQ ARMY all because for political reasons he wanted Assad gone.

Now we have a virulent terrorist freaking army who are beyond evil now marching on Baghdad.

This was preventable. Check this out. No boots on the ground were needed if instead of dicking around drawing lines in the sand for Putin, Obama actually took care of business somewhere in the freaking world instead of strutting like a banty rooster all the time.

The key to this disaster lies in this Administrations goal to have Assad removed from power. It was more important to them to keep this war in Syria going and being the idiots they are they didn't foresee the spillover into Iraq.

Aye carumba!

Al-Maliki and other Iraqi leaders have pleaded with the Obama administration for more than a year for additional help to combat the growing insurgency, which has been fueled by the unrelenting civil war in neighboring Syria.

Northern Iraq has become a way station for insurgents who routinely travel between the two countries and are seeding the Syrian war's violence in Baghdad and beyond.


'I don't rule out anything': Obama vows to help Iraqis after he's accused of 'taking a nap' while al-Qaeda army marches on Baghdad -- but what can he do? | Mail Online

Obama thanks troops in Afghanistan, says ?Al Qaeda is on its heels ? because of you? ? CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs