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You said Odin. I don't think I can believe in Odin because I know it's Greek Mythology and there was no Mt. Olympus.
To answer your question, how can someone believe in something they do not believe in now? They would have to find out they were wrong. I mean they can't just believe by themselves. Something external has to change their mind. Belief isn't just faith-based.
You apparently don't know much about mythology. ZEUS is the one who led the gods on Mt. Olympus.
Odin is from Norse mythology. Here...............educate yourself..................
Odin - Wikipedia
As far as belief being innate or a choice? I'm gonna go with choice. Because of the way all the foster families lied to me about religion, I turned my back on it because it made no sense to me. That was a conscious choice to change my beliefs every time I changed foster families because I wanted to fit in and be like them. After I became an adult? I chose to turn my back on all forms of organized religions. Again, another choice to change my beliefs.
Then, in my 30's, I came across Taoist beliefs and their system, and to tell you the truth, it kinda made sense, so I again changed my belief systems by choice, and became a Taoist.
I understand what you are saying, but if it is a matter of choice then you should be able to change belief at will. What you seem to be saying is that you turned your back on those other beliefs because they made no sense, not because you believed and then decided not to. You never actually believed to begin with. So I will give the same test.... believe in Odin for a week. See if you can do it. I honestly don't think we can.
Actually, when I was a kid, I did kinda believe in Odin. Why? My Grandfather was a Norwegian immigrant who liked to tell stories on occasion. Matter of fact, he is kinda the reason I read so much mythology as a kid. And that was for several years of my childhood.
I said that in order to fit in, I changed my beliefs to fit in with whatever family I was in at the time. And, because I changed families 3 different times, and had to change the way I believed, or risk being called a heathen by the family. And, it was those experiences that caused me to turn my back on religion and choose no beliefs for a while. I also had a bit of a grudge against God for being orphaned at 8.
Then, like I said, in my 30's, I came across Taoist philosophy, but that was after researching into a lot of other belief systems as well. Buddhist and Hindu were in there for a while, but Tao is what seemed to make the most sense, so that is how I believe now. Yes, it has always been a conscious choice for me.
You said Odin. I don't think I can believe in Odin because I know it's Greek Mythology and there was no Mt. Olympus.
To answer your question, how can someone believe in something they do not believe in now? They would have to find out they were wrong. I mean they can't just believe by themselves. Something external has to change their mind. Belief isn't just faith-based.
You apparently don't know much about mythology. ZEUS is the one who led the gods on Mt. Olympus.
Odin is from Norse mythology. Here...............educate yourself..................
Odin - Wikipedia
As far as belief being innate or a choice? I'm gonna go with choice. Because of the way all the foster families lied to me about religion, I turned my back on it because it made no sense to me. That was a conscious choice to change my beliefs every time I changed foster families because I wanted to fit in and be like them. After I became an adult? I chose to turn my back on all forms of organized religions. Again, another choice to change my beliefs.
Then, in my 30's, I came across Taoist beliefs and their system, and to tell you the truth, it kinda made sense, so I again changed my belief systems by choice, and became a Taoist.
I understand what you are saying, but if it is a matter of choice then you should be able to change belief at will. What you seem to be saying is that you turned your back on those other beliefs because they made no sense, not because you believed and then decided not to. You never actually believed to begin with. So I will give the same test.... believe in Odin for a week. See if you can do it. I honestly don't think we can.
.I understand what you are saying, but if it is a matter of choice then you should be able to change belief at will. What you seem to be saying is that you turned your back on those other beliefs because they made no sense, not because you believed and then decided not to. You never actually believed to begin with. So I will give the same test.... believe in Odin for a week. See if you can do it. I honestly don't think we can.
Give me an example. Change one of my belief system. We just had someone do that for Odin, but I was wrong hee hee.
I can't believe in Odin if I tried.
I'll give you one. Let's say you can fly because of your will. Thus, you can step off the Empire State Building and overcome gravity.
I think you misunderstand me. I don't think belief is a matter of choice.
I don't think belief is a matter of choice.
We live in a deterministic world.
I think you misunderstand me. I don't think belief is a matter of choice.
Do you know that is what the Bible says? 1) We are already predestined. 2) We live in a deterministic world.
I think you misunderstand me. I don't think belief is a matter of choice.
Do you know that is what the Bible says? 1) We are already predestined. 2) We live in a deterministic world.
I don't accept either of those. I think it is simply a matter of where you are in development of, for want of a better word, the soul. Don't put too much into that word, I don't mean it in the sense of the continuity of self. Think of it more as a foundation upon which the self is built. You can't build a five bedroom house on a foundation for a two room bungalow.
I think you misunderstand me. I don't think belief is a matter of choice.
Do you know that is what the Bible says? 1) We are already predestined. 2) We live in a deterministic world.
I don't accept either of those. I think it is simply a matter of where you are in development of, for want of a better word, the soul. Don't put too much into that word, I don't mean it in the sense of the continuity of self. Think of it more as a foundation upon which the self is built. You can't build a five bedroom house on a foundation for a two room bungalow.
That's what you just said you believe. You may not believe the rest, but you got this part right.
Predestination
"he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will," Ephesians 1:5
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:29-30
Determinism
"Determinism: The view that every event has a cause and that everything in the universe is absolutely dependent on and governed by causal laws. Determinism is related to fatalism, since determinists believe that all events, including human actions, are caused by something else. Determinism is typically thought to be incompatible with free will.
Fatalism: The belief that “what will be will be,” since all past, present, and future events have already been predetermined by God or another all-powerful force, such as “Fate.” In religion, fatalism may sometimes be confused with predestination, the doctrine that God chooses those who go to heaven before they are even born. It’s important to note that the Bible teaches predestination but not to the exclusion of free will; thus, the Bible does not teach fatalism." <=== I think this is what Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris taught (without the God part)
What is fatalism? What is determinism?
I think you misunderstand me. I don't think belief is a matter of choice.
Do you know that is what the Bible says? 1) We are already predestined. 2) We live in a deterministic world.
You said Odin. I don't think I can believe in Odin because I know it's Greek Mythology and there was no Mt. Olympus.
To answer your question, how can someone believe in something they do not believe in now? They would have to find out they were wrong. I mean they can't just believe by themselves. Something external has to change their mind. Belief isn't just faith-based.
You apparently don't know much about mythology. ZEUS is the one who led the gods on Mt. Olympus.
Odin is from Norse mythology. Here...............educate yourself..................
Odin - Wikipedia
As far as belief being innate or a choice? I'm gonna go with choice. Because of the way all the foster families lied to me about religion, I turned my back on it because it made no sense to me. That was a conscious choice to change my beliefs every time I changed foster families because I wanted to fit in and be like them. After I became an adult? I chose to turn my back on all forms of organized religions. Again, another choice to change my beliefs.
Then, in my 30's, I came across Taoist beliefs and their system, and to tell you the truth, it kinda made sense, so I again changed my belief systems by choice, and became a Taoist.
I understand what you are saying, but if it is a matter of choice then you should be able to change belief at will. What you seem to be saying is that you turned your back on those other beliefs because they made no sense, not because you believed and then decided not to. You never actually believed to begin with. So I will give the same test.... believe in Odin for a week. See if you can do it. I honestly don't think we can.
Actually, when I was a kid, I did kinda believe in Odin. Why? My Grandfather was a Norwegian immigrant who liked to tell stories on occasion. Matter of fact, he is kinda the reason I read so much mythology as a kid. And that was for several years of my childhood.
I said that in order to fit in, I changed my beliefs to fit in with whatever family I was in at the time. And, because I changed families 3 different times, and had to change the way I believed, or risk being called a heathen by the family. And, it was those experiences that caused me to turn my back on religion and choose no beliefs for a while. I also had a bit of a grudge against God for being orphaned at 8.
Then, like I said, in my 30's, I came across Taoist philosophy, but that was after researching into a lot of other belief systems as well. Buddhist and Hindu were in there for a while, but Tao is what seemed to make the most sense, so that is how I believe now. Yes, it has always been a conscious choice for me.
Did you change your beliefs to fit in, or did you just go along with the program? I have been to churches where I stood when everyone stood, bowed my head when everyone bowed their heads and sang the songs everyone sang. I didn't believe for a second, I was just respecting the ceremony.
Well, to the extent that we are all part of whatever is happening in the universe, then I suppose there is such a thing. I am going to die and that is an absolute. Beyond that, I think we are pretty much on our own. We progress or not based upon our choices and none of those are outside of our control.
I think you misunderstand me. I don't think belief is a matter of choice.
Do you know that is what the Bible says? 1) We are already predestined. 2) We live in a deterministic world.
If that is true, then why do we have free will if everything has already been determined? It also says that God gave man free will when He created us.
They don't believe in faith which is their fatal mistake.
What the Christians are saying you have a choice whether to believe or not. One has to believe in Jesus to even have a chance.
When you say you read a book on Buddhism, was it the Buddhist "bible" or was it someone's interpretation of Buddhism that clicked with how you think? What were the main differences between what you read about Buddhism and readings of the Bible? Just curious. I was raised in a very devout Methodist family but began to have questions before I was a teenager. Things have to make sense to me and there were too many things I heard and read that simply did not.I was raised in a family which was Christian and I simply assumed, as a young child, that that is what I was. But when I finally reached an age where I was able to understand what that meant it was clear to me that I was not a Christian. Despite being talked to by many, many people and reading the Bible cover to cover, I have never believed.
However, the first time I read a book on Buddhism, I understand immediately that that was what I believed. Not necessarily all of the details, but the gist of it. I don't mean to say I read and said to myself, "This is cool, I think I'll believe this." I just realized this was the name of what I already believed without ever coming across it before. I never decided to believe, I just did.
So the question to me is whether or not we actually have any control over belief. Has anyone actually sat down and decided that they were going to suddenly start believing that which they did not believe before?
When you say you read a book on Buddhism, was it the Buddhist "bible" or was it someone's interpretation of Buddhism that clicked with how you think? What were the main differences between what you read about Buddhism and readings of the Bible? Just curious. I was raised in a very devout Methodist family but began to have questions before I was a teenager. Things have to make sense to me and there were too many things I heard and read that simply did not.I was raised in a family which was Christian and I simply assumed, as a young child, that that is what I was. But when I finally reached an age where I was able to understand what that meant it was clear to me that I was not a Christian. Despite being talked to by many, many people and reading the Bible cover to cover, I have never believed.
However, the first time I read a book on Buddhism, I understand immediately that that was what I believed. Not necessarily all of the details, but the gist of it. I don't mean to say I read and said to myself, "This is cool, I think I'll believe this." I just realized this was the name of what I already believed without ever coming across it before. I never decided to believe, I just did.
So the question to me is whether or not we actually have any control over belief. Has anyone actually sat down and decided that they were going to suddenly start believing that which they did not believe before?
You said Odin. I don't think I can believe in Odin because I know it's Greek Mythology and there was no Mt. Olympus.
To answer your question, how can someone believe in something they do not believe in now? They would have to find out they were wrong. I mean they can't just believe by themselves. Something external has to change their mind. Belief isn't just faith-based.
You apparently don't know much about mythology. ZEUS is the one who led the gods on Mt. Olympus.
Odin is from Norse mythology. Here...............educate yourself..................
Odin - Wikipedia
As far as belief being innate or a choice? I'm gonna go with choice. Because of the way all the foster families lied to me about religion, I turned my back on it because it made no sense to me. That was a conscious choice to change my beliefs every time I changed foster families because I wanted to fit in and be like them. After I became an adult? I chose to turn my back on all forms of organized religions. Again, another choice to change my beliefs.
Then, in my 30's, I came across Taoist beliefs and their system, and to tell you the truth, it kinda made sense, so I again changed my belief systems by choice, and became a Taoist.
I understand what you are saying, but if it is a matter of choice then you should be able to change belief at will. What you seem to be saying is that you turned your back on those other beliefs because they made no sense, not because you believed and then decided not to. You never actually believed to begin with. So I will give the same test.... believe in Odin for a week. See if you can do it. I honestly don't think we can.
Actually, when I was a kid, I did kinda believe in Odin. Why? My Grandfather was a Norwegian immigrant who liked to tell stories on occasion. Matter of fact, he is kinda the reason I read so much mythology as a kid. And that was for several years of my childhood.
I said that in order to fit in, I changed my beliefs to fit in with whatever family I was in at the time. And, because I changed families 3 different times, and had to change the way I believed, or risk being called a heathen by the family. And, it was those experiences that caused me to turn my back on religion and choose no beliefs for a while. I also had a bit of a grudge against God for being orphaned at 8.
Then, like I said, in my 30's, I came across Taoist philosophy, but that was after researching into a lot of other belief systems as well. Buddhist and Hindu were in there for a while, but Tao is what seemed to make the most sense, so that is how I believe now. Yes, it has always been a conscious choice for me.
Did you change your beliefs to fit in, or did you just go along with the program? I have been to churches where I stood when everyone stood, bowed my head when everyone bowed their heads and sang the songs everyone sang. I didn't believe for a second, I was just respecting the ceremony.
You've obviously never known orphans or foster kids. Most of them are so desperate to be liked and accepted that they will change to fit in. The reason I changed my beliefs is because each family I went to told me that the previous family I came from was a bunch of heretics and I needed to believe as they did if I wanted to make it into Heaven. Like I said, when I finally got on my own, I turned my back on all religion and had a grudge against God. It was only after a lot of searching and research that I finally found something that made sense to me and that is my belief system now.
.Not sure what the point of this thread is.
Free will is about choices of actions not beliefs.
Not sure what the point of this thread is.
Free will is about choices of actions not beliefs.
I am a sinner and therefore the author of his suffering. So there’s that..Not sure what the point of this thread is.
Free will is about choices of actions not beliefs.
Not sure what the point of this thread is.
Free will is about choices of actions not beliefs.
true, kicking your messiah down the road when convenient is nothing new for you ...
