Is Government the problem...or the scapegoat?

[Seawytch]

The rants are "government is the problem" then Republicans take over government, break it and then say "see".

If you're going to steal from PJ O'Rourke, at least get the goddammed quote right.

Didn't realize I was stealing from anyone. Probably why I got it "wrong". I was just calling it as I see it.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The rants are "government is the problem" then Republicans take over government, break it and then say "see".

actually that's the rant our Founders used to create our Constitution.

If you don't like our basic principles why not move to Cuba while its still liberal communist and so very very poor?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Government", as Fox and the right wing love to make into a noun to hate, is NOT the problem. It is the scapegoat. We have many millions of miserable people in this country. They are angry, depressed, bitter, lonely, whatever. And a drug dealer....er, doctor, is more than happy to push a private sector profit tablet (pill) on them to fix it.

But as much as many say "If it werent for the dad gum gubmint, I'd have_______" (Fill in better life goal), would it REALLY be that much better/easier for them? REALLY? Doubtful. See, people dont realize that for what they pay in taxes, they get far more in return. Thats another thread altogether, but, its true. The people with the most wealth WOULD be the biggest targets of crime...and they'd need an entire group of bodyguards if not for law enforcement. Like old days, when kings and royalty had to take groups of armed men with them to protect them, or build castles.

Anyway, most people arent multi-milionaires. Most people pay a fair amount in taxes. Some people pay very little taxes, and those people live shitty lives. I wouldnt trade less taxes for their lives. Funny.

Seems the more people pay in taxes....the better standard of living they have. Hmmmmmm.

No, govt is not the problem. It is the scapegoat for misearble, bitter people who are emotionally bankrupt and have come to realize that more money doesnt mean more happiness.

Your perception of what people think about government would possibly gain some credibility if you could actually understand that it is not all one government. We don't pay taxes to the federal government to provide police protection. We pay taxes to state and local governments for those services.

Those of us who actually understand the structure, and different roles, of the various levels of government desire to keep it that way. I, for one, would like the federal government to return to the role given it by the Constitution. Perhaps, if our senators, congresspersons, and president focused on just those issues, they could actually do that job successfully

This makes no sense.

The Federal government is currently functioning exactly as intended by the Constitution.

There is nothing for the Federal government to ‘return’ to.

 

[bripat9643]

We need less government? As batshit crazy as our society is, I'd say we have just barely enough.

That's because you're an idiot. The federal government used to consume about 3% of our GDP. Now it consumes 25%. and you think that isn't enough? Imagine what we could all do with the money the federal government sucks away and flushes down the welfare sewer.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The Federal government is currently functioning exactly as intended by the Constitution.

thats too stupid for words of course. Madison intended federal government to very very limited. Today it is exactly the opposite and growing more and more all the time.


Moreover, they intended ours to be an intellligent democracy where intelligent productive people voted for the common good, not an idiotic democracy where takers vote for money in their pockets.

 

[Clementine]

No. What poor people need is to become wealthier.

Without poor people, who would clean toilets, take trash, flip burgers, etc, etc, etc? We have a lot of shitty jobs out there that need to be done, and they are jobs that by nature cannot pay much.

A society where everyone is rich does not and cannot exist.

You say "become wealthier" like its an option, or just something to do like making breakfast.

Used to be mostly teens flipping burgers. Those low paying jobs are starting positions and if a person makes smart moves, they will slowly elevate from those jobs and pass them on to others entering the job market.

Some people just aren't that smart and have no ambition and may well be stuck in those jobs forever. And to make matters worse, they sometimes keep having a bunch of children that they can't take care of and then they turn to government, who is all too happy to rob others and give it to them.

Government is the main problem. They create all the laws that companies must follow. It was Wilson who turned control of our money to the federal reserve and those banks continue to be the reason why the top percent have all the money. Obama should have addressed that since the contract with them was up and he could have opted to make government resume their duty. Nary a word on that from the administration or anyone.

Until government takes back control of the money, Goldman Sachs and all the other banks in the reserve will continue to serve their own interests.

The federal reserve is largely responsible for many of our problems.

I don't believe that any of the current people in Washington are really interested in solving problems. I haven't seen any honest attempts to do so.

 

[blackhawk]

No, govt is not the problem. It is the scapegoat for misearble, bitter people who are emotionally bankrupt and have come to realize that more money doesnt mean more happiness.
So according to the Op logic these people are the reason the government has run up a 16 trillion dollar debt? Just so were clear here the government had to run up 16 trillion and counting in debt because of miserable, bitter, emotionally bankrupt people? So how much will the government reduce the 16 trillion dollar debt if we can get these people happy, content, and emotionally satisfied?

 

[bucs90]

No, govt is not the problem. It is the scapegoat for misearble, bitter people who are emotionally bankrupt and have come to realize that more money doesnt mean more happiness.
So according to the Op logic these people are the reason the government has run up a 16 trillion dollar debt? Just so were clear here the government had to run up 16 trillion and counting in debt because of miserable, bitter, emotionally bankrupt people? So how much will the government reduce the 16 trillion dollar debt if we can get these people happy, content, and emotionally satisfied?

"The government" is not a constant noun. You far right zealots are full of hate for the government, but, the government is nothing more than a collection of people, sent there by other people. PEOPLE are the problem, not government. Government is a VERB, not a NOUN, in my view. Government ran up a huge debt because PEOPLE wanted huge wars, PEOPLE wanted low taxes, PEOPLE wanted free shit, and OTHER PEOPLE went there and allowed it to happen.

We are ALL part of the problem, each and every one of us. And we blame the faceless, nameless government for all our ills. But WE did that to government, it wasnt government who did it to us.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Reliance on government is the problem.

 

[bucs90]

Reliance on government is the problem.

I agree with that partly. It is a problem that SOME people rely solely on the government. But for some, it is mandatory to- like the severely disabled.

A problem with 1,000 parts....and the fact that some people rely solely on the government is among that 1,000 problems.

But the right wing paints a picture like 999 of the 1,000 problems are the "gubermint".

 

[OODA_Loop]

Reliance on government is the problem.

I agree with that partly. It is a problem that SOME people rely solely on the government. But for some, it is mandatory to- like the severely disabled.

Reliance by the severly disabled is not the problem. But don;t let it stop you from using it as some tacit justification.

 

[Avatar4321]

Reliance on government is the problem.

I agree with that partly. It is a problem that SOME people rely solely on the government. But for some, it is mandatory to- like the severely disabled.

A problem with 1,000 parts....and the fact that some people rely solely on the government is among that 1,000 problems.

But the right wing paints a picture like 999 of the 1,000 problems are the "gubermint".

it's not mndatory for the severely disabled to rely on the government. There are hundreds of millions of individuals in this nation to take care of our severly disabled.

The problem with government is their solution for the disabled eventually leads to eugenics.

 

[bripat9643]

"The government" is not a constant noun. You far right zealots are full of hate for the government, but, the government is nothing more than a collection of people, sent there by other people. PEOPLE are the problem, not government. Government is a VERB, not a NOUN, in my view. Government ran up a huge debt because PEOPLE wanted huge wars, PEOPLE wanted low taxes, PEOPLE wanted free shit, and OTHER PEOPLE went there and allowed it to happen.

We are ALL part of the problem, each and every one of us. And we blame the faceless, nameless government for all our ills. But WE did that to government, it wasnt government who did it to us.

You're part of the problem. I'm not.

 

[blackhawk]

No, govt is not the problem. It is the scapegoat for misearble, bitter people who are emotionally bankrupt and have come to realize that more money doesnt mean more happiness.
So according to the Op logic these people are the reason the government has run up a 16 trillion dollar debt? Just so were clear here the government had to run up 16 trillion and counting in debt because of miserable, bitter, emotionally bankrupt people? So how much will the government reduce the 16 trillion dollar debt if we can get these people happy, content, and emotionally satisfied?

"The government" is not a constant noun. You far right zealots are full of hate for the government, but, the government is nothing more than a collection of people, sent there by other people. PEOPLE are the problem, not government. Government is a VERB, not a NOUN, in my view. Government ran up a huge debt because PEOPLE wanted huge wars, PEOPLE wanted low taxes, PEOPLE wanted free shit, and OTHER PEOPLE went there and allowed it to happen.

We are ALL part of the problem, each and every one of us. And we blame the faceless, nameless government for all our ills. But WE did that to government, it wasnt government who did it to us.

Oh so Government is people. You mean the same way corporations are people as Mitt Romney said but you hate filled left wing zealots could not accept it?

 

[Londoner]

Government is the scapegoat.

The wealthy have captured government and media.

The wealthy have captured and now wield the centralized power.

But they don't want accountability for that power. They don't want to be blamed for sucking all the money and resources from this country's great productive engine.

So they deflect blame on to something called "government".

But . . . there is no government. Government is owned.

They have convinced the poor dumb voter that this fake entity called government is destroying business and freedom.

Silly rabbit. Everyone knows business owns government. Research election funding and lobbying. In post-Reagan America, you must pay to play. Period. There is a revolving door between congress and lobbying. Members of both parties have lucrative jobs waiting for them on places like K Street. The lobbying industry runs government.

Also, make no mistake about it: massive government layoffs at the state and federal level have removed an unprecedented number of spenders from the economy. If we kept federal and state workers at historical levels, the unemployment would be much lower. And if the economy had all those additional consumers, there would be a multiplier effect.

This is why Reagan was such a closet Keynesian when it came to expanding the government workforce to spur the economy. Reagan added more government jobs to end his recession than Obama has added.


Three years into his presidency, Obama has exceeded Reagan in one area: reductions in government jobs.



By FLOYD NORRIS
Obama cut more government jobs than Reagan.
Over all — including a decline of 12,000 public sector jobs in the Labor Department report for December — government employment is down 2.6 percent over the last three years, compared to a decline of 2.2 percent in the early Reagan years. That is a record.

That record, which will seem a dubious distinction to public-sector employees, is largely a result not of federal policy but of shrinking state governments. State employment fell 1.2 percent in 2011 — the largest percentage for any year since counting began in 1955. The number is down 2.2 percent over the last three years. It was up 1.2 percent during Reagan’s first three years, declining in only one of the years.

Local government jobs used to be deemed super safe. Since the federal government started tracking the statistic in 1955, there have been only six years when local government employment declined. They have come in threes: 1981, 1982 and 1983, the first three years of the Reagan administration, and 2009, 2010, 2011, the first three years of the Obama administration.

 

[Obamanation]

The actions of the gov't are a problem. The gov't is also a scapegoat. Just like the rich are a scapegoat and their actions sometimes are a problem. Just like the poor, the lazy, the religious, the white, the black and any other box you want to build to put types of people into.

The bottom line is that we are on an unsustainable path and unless we get leadership in gov't that is willing to change the course we are going to see America fall apart. People who continue to look around themselves and say, things are OK, or things are looking up (or down) --- We need to be looking 10, 20 or 50 years down the road. There has got to be some short term suffering to fix the future.

Just like a family who has been living beyond their means has to reign in their spending and pay for their mistakes, our Country has got to do the same. We keep ignoring the big issues and living beyond our means. The longer we go, the harder it will be when we decide it's time to be fiscally responsible.

 

[waltky]

Granny says...

... somebody reach over...

... an' smack dat snot-nosed lil' brat.

 

[editec]

Our government is a tool of the masters.

It's like a gun.

Is the gun reponsible for what it does, or is the hand that wields that gun responsible?

Follow the money, honey. Follow the money.

 

[Mac1958]

.

It's a vicious circle. More and more people are conditioned to expect the government to fix things, to make their lives better. They vote for more government. They become further conditioned and condition the next generation. Slowly but surely it builds, and here we are.

The right wing seems to think they can somehow stop this process (and even roll it back) instantly, in one fell swoop. And that's where they're blowing it. This conditioning process took decades, generations now, and it can't be reversed overnight. And it will continue unless and until the GOP wakes up and treats government dependence as a longer-term cultural issue.

.

 

[Seawytch]

The rants are "government is the problem" then Republicans take over government, break it and then say "see".

actually that's the rant our Founders used to create our Constitution.

No it wasn't. The Founding Fathers were not "anti-government" or they wouldn't have worked so hard to set one up.

If you don't like our basic principles why not move to Cuba while its still liberal communist and so very very poor?

You know dickweed, I served this country and swore an OATH on its Constitution. I think I'll fucking stay and continue to work towards making MY country a better place.