Is Home-Schooling a Fundamental Right?

[PoliticalChic]

Currently homeschooling is not banned. I'm talking about a what if. What if a State banned homeschooling.

What if some liberal sap decides that any soda over 16 ounces, or any gun magazine holing 8 bullets makes one a felon.....?

Oh..wait.....



Liberal: whatever you don't like.....ban.

Why are you dodging your own subject.

What if a state bans homeschooling by parents who do not have teaching certificates? What if the state's compulsory education laws require teacher certification in order for schools to fulfill that requirement?

Is that constitutional, in your own personal opinion?

1. "Liberals claim the center by placing socialism on the left and national socialism on the right, even though Lenin/Stalin and Hitler/other Nazis had much in common as they centralized power and preached hatred. A more accurate spectrum would place totalitarians of many stripes on the left and defenders of religious, political, and economic freedom on the right."
WORLD | Let's admit who we are | Marvin Olasky | July 17, 2010




2. "Yes, the banning of homeschooling in Germany started with the Nazis.

We all know how many wonderful ideas the Nazis had. They not only left the rest of Europe in flames, but did themselves and Germany in, in the bargain. If ever a group had no regard for human life or human rights, certainly that group would be the Nazis, would it not?

Let’s ask the obvious. Why would the Nazi’s ban homeschool. Clearly they intended to precisely control everything that a child learned. How else could the Hitler Youth have come into existence? Why else would a child turn his own parents into the SS unless that child had been thoroughly brainwashed – er, excuse me – “educated”.

We know better today, right? Germany is no longer under the control of the Nazi Party, right? That is right, isn’t it? Yet the banning of home school in Germany, initiated by the Nazi Party, continues today. It is violently enforced, using tactics frighteningly reminiscent of the Nazis."
Who Started the Ban on German Homeschools, and Why? | Homeschool Under Siege



So....we have the Nazis banning homeschooling.....and 'totalitarians of many stripes on the left'....

...and now, we find Obama's lackey, Holder, and you....suggesting the same thing.


Seems like 'birds of a feather,' huh?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Currently homeschooling is not banned. I'm talking about a what if. What if a State banned homeschooling.

What if some liberal sap decides that any soda over 16 ounces, or any gun magazine holing 8 bullets makes one a felon.....?

Oh..wait.....



Liberal: whatever you don't like.....ban.

Why are you dodging your own subject.

What if a state bans homeschooling by parents who do not have teaching certificates? What if the state's compulsory education laws require teacher certification in order for schools to fulfill that requirement?

Is that constitutional, in your own personal opinion?

"What if a state bans homeschooling by parents who do not have teaching certificates?"

1. There is no convincing evidence that certified teachers are more effective in the classroom or that ed-school-based training helps.
Education Schools Project


2. See http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dstaiger/Papers/nyc fellows march 2006.pdf
for evidence that certification has very little effect on student achievement.


3. “…private schools appear to do fine- perhaps better-without being compelled to hire state certified teachers.”
Chester Finn, “Troublemaker,” p. 283.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What if some liberal sap decides that any soda over 16 ounces, or any gun magazine holing 8 bullets makes one a felon.....?

Oh..wait.....



Liberal: whatever you don't like.....ban.

Why are you dodging your own subject.

What if a state bans homeschooling by parents who do not have teaching certificates? What if the state's compulsory education laws require teacher certification in order for schools to fulfill that requirement?

Is that constitutional, in your own personal opinion?

1. "Liberals claim the center by placing socialism on the left and national socialism on the right, even though Lenin/Stalin and Hitler/other Nazis had much in common as they centralized power and preached hatred. A more accurate spectrum would place totalitarians of many stripes on the left and defenders of religious, political, and economic freedom on the right."
WORLD | Let's admit who we are | Marvin Olasky | July 17, 2010




2. "Yes, the banning of homeschooling in Germany started with the Nazis.

We all know how many wonderful ideas the Nazis had. They not only left the rest of Europe in flames, but did themselves and Germany in, in the bargain. If ever a group had no regard for human life or human rights, certainly that group would be the Nazis, would it not?

Let’s ask the obvious. Why would the Nazi’s ban homeschool. Clearly they intended to precisely control everything that a child learned. How else could the Hitler Youth have come into existence? Why else would a child turn his own parents into the SS unless that child had been thoroughly brainwashed – er, excuse me – “educated”.

We know better today, right? Germany is no longer under the control of the Nazi Party, right? That is right, isn’t it? Yet the banning of home school in Germany, initiated by the Nazi Party, continues today. It is violently enforced, using tactics frighteningly reminiscent of the Nazis."
Who Started the Ban on German Homeschools, and Why? | Homeschool Under Siege



So....we have the Nazis banning homeschooling.....and 'totalitarians of many stripes on the left'....

...and now, we find Obama's lackey, Holder, and you....suggesting the same thing.


Seems like 'birds of a feather,' huh?

The Nazis also banned abortion.

The question to you was, is homeschooling a Constitutional right or not?

 

[NYcarbineer]

What if some liberal sap decides that any soda over 16 ounces, or any gun magazine holing 8 bullets makes one a felon.....?

Oh..wait.....



Liberal: whatever you don't like.....ban.

Why are you dodging your own subject.

What if a state bans homeschooling by parents who do not have teaching certificates? What if the state's compulsory education laws require teacher certification in order for schools to fulfill that requirement?

Is that constitutional, in your own personal opinion?

This was not directed to me, but the state CAN most likely mandate compulsory public school education for children or mandate that children must have state certified teachers in order for the state to recognize their education. This would, however, be in opposition to what the Founders intended for a free people. And the federal government would be in violation of the Constitution should it order such.

The state CANNOT, as the Constitution is currently written, forbid me from homeschooling my child in addition to whatever is mandated whether or not I have a teaching certificate or any formal education at all.

There is an unalienable right for us to educate ourselves however we choose to do that.

You're doing more speculating about what the founders wanted than the facts warrant.

Was the SCOTUS wrong then in Brown vs Board of Education, when they forced the states to end mandated school segregation?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's the conservative petard that I'm hoisting these people with.

It's widely argued by conservatives that the federal government has no business in education. That education falls within the scope of states' rights;

suddenly, however, when conservatives decide outcome trumps principle, they are clamoring to claim homeschooling as a fundamental Constitutional right.

The irony is, homeschooling might be a Constitutional right, but that would require the kind of liberal interpretation of what is or isn't in the Constitution that conservatives generally, otherwise detest.

No it is not, because we all understand the difference between a right and a civil right.

Are you finally stating for the record that you do not believe homeschooling is a constitutional right?

Let's be clear here too. We are talking about homeschooling as an alternative method to satisfy state mandated compulsory education laws.

I never said it was a constitutional right, did I? You really need to learn that the Constitution is not the source of rights, your insistence on getting people to defend tights based on your beliefs is going to keep you running around in circles, and you will always end up frustrated when people refuse to cooperate.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why are you dodging your own subject.

What if a state bans homeschooling by parents who do not have teaching certificates? What if the state's compulsory education laws require teacher certification in order for schools to fulfill that requirement?

Is that constitutional, in your own personal opinion?

1. "Liberals claim the center by placing socialism on the left and national socialism on the right, even though Lenin/Stalin and Hitler/other Nazis had much in common as they centralized power and preached hatred. A more accurate spectrum would place totalitarians of many stripes on the left and defenders of religious, political, and economic freedom on the right."
WORLD | Let's admit who we are | Marvin Olasky | July 17, 2010




2. "Yes, the banning of homeschooling in Germany started with the Nazis.

We all know how many wonderful ideas the Nazis had. They not only left the rest of Europe in flames, but did themselves and Germany in, in the bargain. If ever a group had no regard for human life or human rights, certainly that group would be the Nazis, would it not?

Let’s ask the obvious. Why would the Nazi’s ban homeschool. Clearly they intended to precisely control everything that a child learned. How else could the Hitler Youth have come into existence? Why else would a child turn his own parents into the SS unless that child had been thoroughly brainwashed – er, excuse me – “educated”.

We know better today, right? Germany is no longer under the control of the Nazi Party, right? That is right, isn’t it? Yet the banning of home school in Germany, initiated by the Nazi Party, continues today. It is violently enforced, using tactics frighteningly reminiscent of the Nazis."
Who Started the Ban on German Homeschools, and Why? | Homeschool Under Siege



So....we have the Nazis banning homeschooling.....and 'totalitarians of many stripes on the left'....

...and now, we find Obama's lackey, Holder, and you....suggesting the same thing.


Seems like 'birds of a feather,' huh?

The Nazis also banned abortion.

The question to you was, is homeschooling a Constitutional right or not?

Your question has as much import as "is swatting soap bubbles a Constitutional right or not?"


When are you totalists going to ban swatting soap bubbles?


Or trumpet the dangers of 'second hand soap bubbles.'

 

[NYcarbineer]

No it is not, because we all understand the difference between a right and a civil right.

Are you finally stating for the record that you do not believe homeschooling is a constitutional right?

Let's be clear here too. We are talking about homeschooling as an alternative method to satisfy state mandated compulsory education laws.

I never said it was a constitutional right, did I? You really need to learn that the Constitution is not the source of rights, your insistence on getting people to defend tights based on your beliefs is going to keep you running around in circles, and you will always end up frustrated when people refuse to cooperate.

The law is the source of legal protections for rights.

You can get nourishment from a potato, but you can't get nourishment from the idea of a potato. There is a difference between having a right that you can legally exercise, and having a right that you think you ought to be able to exercise.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. "Liberals claim the center by placing socialism on the left and national socialism on the right, even though Lenin/Stalin and Hitler/other Nazis had much in common as they centralized power and preached hatred. A more accurate spectrum would place totalitarians of many stripes on the left and defenders of religious, political, and economic freedom on the right."
WORLD | Let's admit who we are | Marvin Olasky | July 17, 2010




2. "Yes, the banning of homeschooling in Germany started with the Nazis.

We all know how many wonderful ideas the Nazis had. They not only left the rest of Europe in flames, but did themselves and Germany in, in the bargain. If ever a group had no regard for human life or human rights, certainly that group would be the Nazis, would it not?

Let’s ask the obvious. Why would the Nazi’s ban homeschool. Clearly they intended to precisely control everything that a child learned. How else could the Hitler Youth have come into existence? Why else would a child turn his own parents into the SS unless that child had been thoroughly brainwashed – er, excuse me – “educated”.

We know better today, right? Germany is no longer under the control of the Nazi Party, right? That is right, isn’t it? Yet the banning of home school in Germany, initiated by the Nazi Party, continues today. It is violently enforced, using tactics frighteningly reminiscent of the Nazis."
Who Started the Ban on German Homeschools, and Why? | Homeschool Under Siege



So....we have the Nazis banning homeschooling.....and 'totalitarians of many stripes on the left'....

...and now, we find Obama's lackey, Holder, and you....suggesting the same thing.


Seems like 'birds of a feather,' huh?

The Nazis also banned abortion.

The question to you was, is homeschooling a Constitutional right or not?

Your question has as much import as "is swatting soap bubbles a Constitutional right or not?"


When are you totalists going to ban swatting soap bubbles?


Or trumpet the dangers of 'second hand soap bubbles.'

You're right where you always end up when you lose an argument.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Nazis also banned abortion.

The question to you was, is homeschooling a Constitutional right or not?

Your question has as much import as "is swatting soap bubbles a Constitutional right or not?"


When are you totalists going to ban swatting soap bubbles?


Or trumpet the dangers of 'second hand soap bubbles.'

You're right where you always end up when you lose an argument.

Folks like you aim at losing a country.

 

[PaulS1950]

The constitution and the government it empowers is supposed to protect our rights that are bestowed by the fact that we are human. The government doesn't bestow rights nor does the constitution. The rights existed before the constitution and before government. The rights are only protected by the bill of rights.
See the ninth amendment for proof of rights not specifically listed in the constitution.
See the tenth amendment for proof that states don't have the power to restrict our rights.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. "Liberals claim the center by placing socialism on the left and national socialism on the right, even though Lenin/Stalin and Hitler/other Nazis had much in common as they centralized power and preached hatred. A more accurate spectrum would place totalitarians of many stripes on the left and defenders of religious, political, and economic freedom on the right."
WORLD | Let's admit who we are | Marvin Olasky | July 17, 2010




2. "Yes, the banning of homeschooling in Germany started with the Nazis.

We all know how many wonderful ideas the Nazis had. They not only left the rest of Europe in flames, but did themselves and Germany in, in the bargain. If ever a group had no regard for human life or human rights, certainly that group would be the Nazis, would it not?

Let’s ask the obvious. Why would the Nazi’s ban homeschool. Clearly they intended to precisely control everything that a child learned. How else could the Hitler Youth have come into existence? Why else would a child turn his own parents into the SS unless that child had been thoroughly brainwashed – er, excuse me – “educated”.

We know better today, right? Germany is no longer under the control of the Nazi Party, right? That is right, isn’t it? Yet the banning of home school in Germany, initiated by the Nazi Party, continues today. It is violently enforced, using tactics frighteningly reminiscent of the Nazis."
Who Started the Ban on German Homeschools, and Why? | Homeschool Under Siege



So....we have the Nazis banning homeschooling.....and 'totalitarians of many stripes on the left'....

...and now, we find Obama's lackey, Holder, and you....suggesting the same thing.


Seems like 'birds of a feather,' huh?

The Nazis also banned abortion.

The question to you was, is homeschooling a Constitutional right or not?

Your question has as much import as "is swatting soap bubbles a Constitutional right or not?"


When are you totalists going to ban swatting soap bubbles?


Or trumpet the dangers of 'second hand soap bubbles.'

It's interesting you would say that now, since that question was part of your TOPIC:

From your original post:

4. The Obama DOJ is arguing in this case that there is no fundamental Constitutional right to homeschool children anywhere

So you start a thread about it, then won't state your view on it, or defend whatever your view is,

which presumably is you disagree with the Obama DOJ, if in fact that is their position,

and now suddenly you mock the very act of trying to discuss the issue YOU MADE A THREAD ABOUT.

Wake up and smell the lithium. You're demented.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The constitution and the government it empowers is supposed to protect our rights that are bestowed by the fact that we are human. The government doesn't bestow rights nor does the constitution. The rights existed before the constitution and before government. The rights are only protected by the bill of rights.
See the ninth amendment for proof of rights not specifically listed in the constitution.
See the tenth amendment for proof that states don't have the power to restrict our rights.

I've told people around here for ages that the 10th amendment can't be used to take away federally protected rights, or even to contradict federal law.

But the question here is, is homeschooling a constitutionally protected right that states cannot violate, 10th amendment or not?

 

[PaulS1950]

There are no "constitutional rights" our individual rights existed before the constitution or the government and they were given the duty to protect our rights.
Since they have failed at protecting those rights and are working to restrict and errode our rights it is time to remind government that we, the people have the power to remove them from power.

 

[PaulS1950]

The constitution and the government it empowers is supposed to protect our rights that are bestowed by the fact that we are human. The government doesn't bestow rights nor does the constitution. The rights existed before the constitution and before government. The rights are only protected by the bill of rights.
See the ninth amendment for proof of rights not specifically listed in the constitution.
See the tenth amendment for proof that states don't have the power to restrict our rights.

I've told people around here for ages that the 10th amendment can't be used to take away federally protected rights, or even to contradict federal law.

But the question here is, is homeschooling a constitutionally protected right that states cannot violate, 10th amendment or not?

It is the right and responsibility of every parent to educate their children. That right is protected by the nineth amendment.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There are no "constitutional rights" our individual rights existed before the constitution or the government and they were given the duty to protect our rights.
Since they have failed at protecting those rights and are working to restrict and errode our rights it is time to remind government that we, the people have the power to remove them from power.

See now you've just gone mental.

So the right to an abortion existed before Roe v. Wade, it just wasn't a constitutionally protected right...

eh?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The constitution and the government it empowers is supposed to protect our rights that are bestowed by the fact that we are human. The government doesn't bestow rights nor does the constitution. The rights existed before the constitution and before government. The rights are only protected by the bill of rights.
See the ninth amendment for proof of rights not specifically listed in the constitution.
See the tenth amendment for proof that states don't have the power to restrict our rights.

I've told people around here for ages that the 10th amendment can't be used to take away federally protected rights, or even to contradict federal law.

But the question here is, is homeschooling a constitutionally protected right that states cannot violate, 10th amendment or not?

It is the right and responsibility of every parent to educate their children. That right is protected by the nineth amendment.

That is not exactly the issue here.

The issue is, is the right to homeschool such that parents can satisfy a state's compulsory education laws via homeschooling.

 

[SuMar]

There are no "constitutional rights" our individual rights existed before the constitution or the government and they were given the duty to protect our rights.
Since they have failed at protecting those rights and are working to restrict and errode our rights it is time to remind government that we, the people have the power to remove them from power.

See now you've just gone mental.

So the right to an abortion existed before Roe v. Wade, it just wasn't a constitutionally protected right...

eh?

Abortion isn't the topic in this thread, it's homeschooling.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Are you finally stating for the record that you do not believe homeschooling is a constitutional right?

Let's be clear here too. We are talking about homeschooling as an alternative method to satisfy state mandated compulsory education laws.

I never said it was a constitutional right, did I? You really need to learn that the Constitution is not the source of rights, your insistence on getting people to defend tights based on your beliefs is going to keep you running around in circles, and you will always end up frustrated when people refuse to cooperate.

The law is the source of legal protections for rights.

You can get nourishment from a potato, but you can't get nourishment from the idea of a potato. There is a difference between having a right that you can legally exercise, and having a right that you think you ought to be able to exercise.

How profound.

I can exercise all my rights, even if the law says otherwise, that is part of what makes them rights. On the other hand, there are things that the law says are rights that I cannot do if the law is not there to create them, which is why voting never occurs in nature.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There are no "constitutional rights" our individual rights existed before the constitution or the government and they were given the duty to protect our rights.
Since they have failed at protecting those rights and are working to restrict and errode our rights it is time to remind government that we, the people have the power to remove them from power.

See now you've just gone mental.

So the right to an abortion existed before Roe v. Wade, it just wasn't a constitutionally protected right...

eh?

The right to privacy existed before the Constitution, abortion requires more than one person, and is not be a right.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Nazis also banned abortion.

The question to you was, is homeschooling a Constitutional right or not?

Your question has as much import as "is swatting soap bubbles a Constitutional right or not?"


When are you totalists going to ban swatting soap bubbles?


Or trumpet the dangers of 'second hand soap bubbles.'

It's interesting you would say that now, since that question was part of your TOPIC:

From your original post:

4. The Obama DOJ is arguing in this case that there is no fundamental Constitutional right to homeschool children anywhere

So you start a thread about it, then won't state your view on it, or defend whatever your view is,

which presumably is you disagree with the Obama DOJ, if in fact that is their position,

and now suddenly you mock the very act of trying to discuss the issue YOU MADE A THREAD ABOUT.

Wake up and smell the lithium. You're demented.

You fail to understand.

If swatting soap bubbles is 'constitutionally protected,' then so is home schooling.


Some things are so obvious that even the 'reliable Democrat voter' should be able to puzzle through them.