Is Home-Schooling a Fundamental Right?

[NYcarbineer]

There are no "constitutional rights" our individual rights existed before the constitution or the government and they were given the duty to protect our rights.
Since they have failed at protecting those rights and are working to restrict and errode our rights it is time to remind government that we, the people have the power to remove them from power.

See now you've just gone mental.

So the right to an abortion existed before Roe v. Wade, it just wasn't a constitutionally protected right...

eh?

Abortion isn't the topic in this thread, it's homeschooling.

The poster I responded to is talking about 'rights' plural. Why don't you crybaby to him if you have a problem you massive twat.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Your question has as much import as "is swatting soap bubbles a Constitutional right or not?"


When are you totalists going to ban swatting soap bubbles?


Or trumpet the dangers of 'second hand soap bubbles.'

It's interesting you would say that now, since that question was part of your TOPIC:

From your original post:

4. The Obama DOJ is arguing in this case that there is no fundamental Constitutional right to homeschool children anywhere

So you start a thread about it, then won't state your view on it, or defend whatever your view is,

which presumably is you disagree with the Obama DOJ, if in fact that is their position,

and now suddenly you mock the very act of trying to discuss the issue YOU MADE A THREAD ABOUT.

Wake up and smell the lithium. You're demented.

You fail to understand.

If swatting soap bubbles is 'constitutionally protected,' then so is home schooling.


Some things are so obvious that even the 'reliable Democrat voter' should be able to puzzle through them.

Homeschooling, in and of itself, IS a constitutional right.

That is not the real issue here. The real issue is do parents have a constitutional right to satisfy a state's compulsory education law with homeschooling.

The answer is yes (or should be yes), IF the homeschooling fulfills the minimum requirements and standards set by the state's compulsory education law.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I never said it was a constitutional right, did I? You really need to learn that the Constitution is not the source of rights, your insistence on getting people to defend tights based on your beliefs is going to keep you running around in circles, and you will always end up frustrated when people refuse to cooperate.

The law is the source of legal protections for rights.

You can get nourishment from a potato, but you can't get nourishment from the idea of a potato. There is a difference between having a right that you can legally exercise, and having a right that you think you ought to be able to exercise.

How profound.

I can exercise all my rights, even if the law says otherwise, that is part of what makes them rights. On the other hand, there are things that the law says are rights that I cannot do if the law is not there to create them, which is why voting never occurs in nature.

No that's part of what makes them someone's idea of what rights might be.

 

[clevergirl]

It's interesting you would say that now, since that question was part of your TOPIC:

From your original post:

4. The Obama DOJ is arguing in this case that there is no fundamental Constitutional right to homeschool children anywhere

So you start a thread about it, then won't state your view on it, or defend whatever your view is,

which presumably is you disagree with the Obama DOJ, if in fact that is their position,

and now suddenly you mock the very act of trying to discuss the issue YOU MADE A THREAD ABOUT.

Wake up and smell the lithium. You're demented.

You fail to understand.

If swatting soap bubbles is 'constitutionally protected,' then so is home schooling.


Some things are so obvious that even the 'reliable Democrat voter' should be able to puzzle through them.

Homeschooling, in and of itself, IS a constitutional right.

That is not the real issue here. The real issue is do parents have a constitutional right to satisfy a state's compulsory education law with homeschooling.

The answer is yes (or should be yes), IF the homeschooling fulfills the minimum requirements and standards set by the state's compulsory education law

.

All of which are typically quite subjective...as they must be to avoid Constitutional challenges.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I should add to the earlier post that if the compulsory education requirements of a particular state are such that some parents are not capable of fulfilling them, and assuming the requirements themselves are constitutional,

then those parents do not have the constitutional right to homeschool their children in lieu of sending them to a school that meets the requirements.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You fail to understand.

If swatting soap bubbles is 'constitutionally protected,' then so is home schooling.


Some things are so obvious that even the 'reliable Democrat voter' should be able to puzzle through them.

Homeschooling, in and of itself, IS a constitutional right.

That is not the real issue here. The real issue is do parents have a constitutional right to satisfy a state's compulsory education law with homeschooling.

The answer is yes (or should be yes), IF the homeschooling fulfills the minimum requirements and standards set by the state's compulsory education law

.

All of which are typically quite subjective...as they must be to avoid Constitutional challenges.

Homeschooling is just a form of private schooling. Private schools are held to state standards, so should homeschools.

It's common for public school districts to have people employed, at taxpayer expense, just for the purpose of working with homeschoolers to help and assure that they are getting the job done.

 

[JimH52]

Of course it is!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFkIJBVZ4_w]The Whitest Kids U Know - Home School - YouTube[/ame]

 

[clevergirl]

States typically have a set of subjective laws regarding compulsory education as applied to home based education. They do so because Constitutional challenges are created when parental rights are impinged upon.


Link to case law specific to home based education.
HSLDA | Case Archive

State by State interactive map to education laws that effect home based education.
HSLDA | Home School Laws

 

[clevergirl]

The most common challenge to home education is centered around a states truancy laws. States are bound to compulsory education laws that include minimum attendance requirements. The problem with applying these standards to home education is that the typical homeschooler can get through required course work in half the time. This allows them to be done in a 3 hr day or a 6 month school year. It's why most of them are in advanced studies for their age group as compared to their public schooled counterparts.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The most common challenge to home education is centered around a states truancy laws. States are bound to compulsory education laws that include minimum attendance requirements. The problem with applying these standards to home education is that the typical homeschooler can get through required course work in half the time. This allows them to be done in a 3 hr day or a 6 month school year. It's why most of them are in advanced studies for their age group as compared to their public schooled counterparts.

I don't find that to be the case.

In my state I'm responsible for sending in 4 progress reports a year....and the attendance dates are not required
While the requirement is taking standardized exams two or three times during elementary school year, my children take them every year at the local public school, with the public school kids.

 

[clevergirl]

The most common challenge to home education is centered around a states truancy laws. States are bound to compulsory education laws that include minimum attendance requirements. The problem with applying these standards to home education is that the typical homeschooler can get through required course work in half the time. This allows them to be done in a 3 hr day or a 6 month school year. It's why most of them are in advanced studies for their age group as compared to their public schooled counterparts.

I don't find that to be the case.

In my state I'm responsible for sending in 4 progress reports a year....and the attendance dates are not required
While the requirement is taking standardized exams two or three times during elementary school year, my children take them every year at the local public school, with the public school kids.

That's because it is a state by state set of law/policy regarding home education. I was merely speaking to the most "common challenges" that are legally directed at home based educators.

 

[Contumacious]

Homeschooling, in and of itself, IS a constitutional right.

That is not the real issue here. The real issue is do parents have a constitutional right to satisfy a state's compulsory education law with homeschooling.

.

All of which are typically quite subjective...as they must be to avoid Constitutional challenges.

Homeschooling is just a form of private schooling. Private schools are held to state standards, so should homeschools.

It's common for public school districts to have people employed, at taxpayer expense, just for the purpose of working with homeschoolers to help and assure that they are getting the job done.

Again, I sincerely believe that you will be happier in Cuba, Venezuela and other tyrannical regimes.


Esther La Vista, dude.

.

 

[clevergirl]

Homeschooling, in and of itself, IS a constitutional right.

That is not the real issue here. The real issue is do parents have a constitutional right to satisfy a state's compulsory education law with homeschooling.

.

All of which are typically quite subjective...as they must be to avoid Constitutional challenges.

Homeschooling is just a form of private schooling. Private schools are held to state standards, so should homeschools.

It's common for public school districts to have people employed, at taxpayer expense, just for the purpose of working with homeschoolers to help and assure that they are getting the job done.

They are similar to "private schools"- but not their exact replica. Home based educators are subject to some standards (testing) state by state and more rigorous scrutiny in others (compulsory attendance laws). But teachers (parents) typically are not required to be certificated as most private school teachers are.

 

[PoliticalChic]

All of which are typically quite subjective...as they must be to avoid Constitutional challenges.

Homeschooling is just a form of private schooling. Private schools are held to state standards, so should homeschools.

It's common for public school districts to have people employed, at taxpayer expense, just for the purpose of working with homeschoolers to help and assure that they are getting the job done.

Again, I sincerely believe that you will be happier in Cuba, Venezuela and other tyrannical regimes.


Esther La Vista, dude.

.

Wait....you're not sending away our piñata....are you???

 

[Foxfyre]

All of which are typically quite subjective...as they must be to avoid Constitutional challenges.

Homeschooling is just a form of private schooling. Private schools are held to state standards, so should homeschools.

It's common for public school districts to have people employed, at taxpayer expense, just for the purpose of working with homeschoolers to help and assure that they are getting the job done.

They are similar to "private schools"- but not their exact replica. Home based educators are subject to some standards (testing) state by state and more rigorous scrutiny in others (compulsory attendance laws). But teachers (parents) typically are not required to be certificated as most private school teachers are.

Any reasonable person could see a rationale for periodic testing regardless of where or how a child is educated. And if the child is meeting the benchmarks showing that he or she is learning as much or more than his/her peers, that should be the only standards required.

Again my niece, herself having only a highschool education, successfully homeschooled her youngest from kindergarten through highschool and last year he graduated with honors from a Division I accredited University and he did it easily in four years.

Why in the world would anybody want to screw that up? Or do we need to look to Boedicca's thread looking at a nation founded by geniuses but run by idiots?

 

[Contumacious]

Homeschooling is just a form of private schooling. Private schools are held to state standards, so should homeschools.

It's common for public school districts to have people employed, at taxpayer expense, just for the purpose of working with homeschoolers to help and assure that they are getting the job done.

Again, I sincerely believe that you will be happier in Cuba, Venezuela and other tyrannical regimes.


Esther La Vista, dude.

.

Wait....you're not sending away our piñata....are you???

LOL, yes, I is.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of "piñatas".

.

 

[clevergirl]

One of my heroes

 

[Contumacious]

Homeschooling is just a form of private schooling. Private schools are held to state standards, so should homeschools.

It's common for public school districts to have people employed, at taxpayer expense, just for the purpose of working with homeschoolers to help and assure that they are getting the job done.

They are similar to "private schools"- but not their exact replica. Home based educators are subject to some standards (testing) state by state and more rigorous scrutiny in others (compulsory attendance laws). But teachers (parents) typically are not required to be certificated as most private school teachers are.

Any reasonable person could see a rationale for periodic testing regardless of where or how a child is educated.
?

And that is the PARENTS' RESPONSIBILITY.

We are spending a gazillions dollars in education.

And what the fuck do we have?

A bankrupt welfare/warfare state.

.

 

[Foxfyre]

They are similar to "private schools"- but not their exact replica. Home based educators are subject to some standards (testing) state by state and more rigorous scrutiny in others (compulsory attendance laws). But teachers (parents) typically are not required to be certificated as most private school teachers are.

Any reasonable person could see a rationale for periodic testing regardless of where or how a child is educated.
?

And that is the PARENTS' RESPONSIBILITY.

We are spending a gazillions dollars in education.

And what the fuck do we have?

A bankrupt welfare/warfare state.

.

The fact is, the public schools are not educating a lot of kids. The last statistics I saw are that one out of four kids does not graduate at all, and a too high percentage of those who do graduate are deficient in reading, writing, and math skills. (No, I don't have time to look all that up again this morning so will leave it as my opinion that those are the facts.)

Parochial and private schools have a much better record and homeschooled kids have an almost 100% graduation rate and are far more likely to be ready for college without any remedial work necessary.

If we as a nation were smart and truly did care about the kids, we would be encouraging a lot more homeschooling, would be demanding vouchers or elimination of school taxes for those attending private schools, and then we could focus all public resources on the kids who did go to public schools.

Wouldn't that make more sense than continuing to hang on to the herd mentality that the one-size-fits-all government solution ever really works for much of anything?

 

[Contumacious]

Any reasonable person could see a rationale for periodic testing regardless of where or how a child is educated.
?

And that is the PARENTS' RESPONSIBILITY.

We are spending a gazillions dollars in education.

And what the fuck do we have?

A bankrupt welfare/warfare state.

.

The fact is, the public schools are not educating a lot of kids. The last statistics I saw are that one out of four kids does not graduate at all, and a too high percentage of those who do graduate are deficient in reading, writing, and math skills. (No, I don't have time to look all that up again this morning so will leave it as my opinion that those are the facts.)

Parochial and private schools have a much better record and homeschooled kids have an almost 100% graduation rate and are far more likely to be ready for college without any remedial work necessary.

If we as a nation were smart and truly did care about the kids, we would be encouraging a lot more homeschooling, would be demanding vouchers or elimination of school taxes for those attending private schools, and then we could focus all public resources on the kids who did go to public schools.

Wouldn't that make more sense than continuing to hang on to the herd mentality that the one-size-fits-all government solution ever really works for much of anything?

You are Preaching to the choir.

.