Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?

[Syriusly]

(2) normal men are repulsed by the very idea of homosexual intercourse, in all its forms, even while similar acts with a woman (i.e., oral and anal sex) are considered quite desirable..

So you are saying that hetero men are oriented towards women instead of men? Wow.

Just like homo men are oriented towards men instead of women.

Note how you consider anal sex with a woman to be desirable- but anal sex between men 'a grotesque parody of sexual intercourse'......

 

[dblack]

The problem starts when people try to enforce morality with government

 

[Syriusly]

(3) no rational moralist believes that there is a human right to copulate with whomever is the object of one's desire, even if that person consents. (E.g., sibling, parent, someone else's spouse, etc.)

Riddle me this:

Why is incest illegal- and considered immoral?

(and it isn't about producing idiots)

 

[Syriusly]

(4) traditional religious teachings - even assuming their is no "god" - merely codify the wisdom of a thousand generations. But that wisdom, in brief, is "hate the sin; love the sinner." But the sinner who sins proudly? The sinner who publicly asserts a right and intention to continue in sin indefinitely (aka "gay marriage"), maybe not.

Jesus says that to divorce and remarry is adultery- so persons like Donald Trump and Newt Gingrich- both on their third marriages are both sinners who have publicly asserted a right and intention to continue to sin indefinitely- both proud of their sinful marriages to their third wives.

Do you view their marriages the same way as you view the marriage between two men?

 

[Syriusly]

You can't prove your own claim? No surprise there.

Naming a few posters who have said hateful things doesn't equate to such even vague terms like "sizable portion" or equating posting "negatively" with "despise".

Example: It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about Christians - despise Christians.

Now, like you said, "Prove me wrong".

Bump. Sorry, I must have missed your reply since I was working all day.

Nope- frankly I have been busy and have forgotten.

It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays.

As I said- sizable portion hate gays.

Do you have any disagreement that when Tipsy said the one thing she found positive about ISIS was their killing gays- we can agree she 'despises' gays?

I want to make sure we can find any agreement here.

So I will go ahead and start compiling that list for you.

I know little about "Tipsy" and cannot vouch an informed opinion. I can vouch the opinion that killing anyone for anything is wrong. I'm against the death penalty. I'm also against laws condemning actions between consenting adults.

So you can't have an informed opinion about whether someone 'hates' gays when they say:

Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did.

Well, to be fair, the poster was probably not being serious. People say all kinds of things around here, as you know. And I actually did take the time to follow the quote in your signature line, and she did add "not because they are gay but because they are obnoxious." So it is a bit disingenuous for you to exclude that important part of the quote, no?

So lets say that Tipsy had said this instead

"Hanging blacks was the only good thing the KKK did"

with the follow up:

"Not because they were black, but because they are obnoxious'

Would you be okay with that statement?

Lets try another:

"Gassing Jews was the only good thing the Nazis did:

with the follow up:

"Not because they were Jews, but because they are obnoxious"

Would you be okay with that statement?

 

[Syriusly]

While I may not believe in any gods, that doesn't mean I don't RESPECT the teachings of Jesus. He was a smart man, way ahead of his time.

IN many ways I agree- many of the teachings of Jesus are complex and HARD- the one that I agree with- yet struggle with- is his teaching to love your enemy.

I don't have to believe in any gods in order to appreciate the wisdom of many religious teachings- and I am a product of a civilization that has incorporated many of those teachings into our philosophies and law.

 

[Syriusly]

So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question

Hardly a simple yes or no question.

Let me ask you a similar question from the 1960's.

Are people wrong for believing that race mixing is a sin?

 

[Syriusly]

Some do, but someone truly vested in the Christian belief system would only want to not have it condoned by the government would not like it because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that God will remove a hedge of protection on our Nation.
These same people, if they had their way, would prohibit divorce as well, except for situations specified by Jesus himself

Not always- there are plenty who have condemned 'gay marriage' but who have divorced and remarried themselves.

 

[Bonzi]

So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question

Hardly a simple yes or no question.

Let me ask you a similar question from the 1960's.

Are people wrong for believing that race mixing is a sin?

If they're part of a religion that believes that sinful then no they're not wrong for believing that I don't know if you can ever say you're wrong in believing anything is when it comes to a religious concept

 

[Bonzi]

Some do, but someone truly vested in the Christian belief system would only want to not have it condoned by the government would not like it because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that God will remove a hedge of protection on our Nation.
These same people, if they had their way, would prohibit divorce as well, except for situations specified by Jesus himself

Not always- there are plenty who have condemned 'gay marriage' but who have divorced and remarried themselves.

I agree there's always going to be people out there that rationalize their own behavior while condemning the behavior of others not limited to the topics we're talking about but absolutely it's true

 

[Syriusly]

So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question

Hardly a simple yes or no question.

Let me ask you a similar question from the 1960's.

Are people wrong for believing that race mixing is a sin?

If they're part of a religion that believes that sinful then no they're not wrong for believing that I don't know if you can ever say you're wrong in believing anything is when it comes to a religious concept

Oh I have no problem with saying that people who believe- and act on certain religious concepts are wrong.

When backward Muslims stone a woman to death for 'sin'- adultery- yeah that is wrong.

When backward Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin and push to pass laws to imprison homosexuals- yeah that is wrong.

 

[Syriusly]

Some do, but someone truly vested in the Christian belief system would only want to not have it condoned by the government would not like it because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that God will remove a hedge of protection on our Nation.
These same people, if they had their way, would prohibit divorce as well, except for situations specified by Jesus himself

Not always- there are plenty who have condemned 'gay marriage' but who have divorced and remarried themselves.

I agree there's always going to be people out there that rationalize their own behavior while condemning the behavior of others not limited to the topics we're talking about but absolutely it's true

And worthy of having their hypocrisy pointed out.

Pretty much all followers of religions 'cherry pick' portions of the teachings to follow- or to ignore. That is one of the reason why there are so many sects.

 

[Bonzi]

So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question

Hardly a simple yes or no question.

Let me ask you a similar question from the 1960's.

Are people wrong for believing that race mixing is a sin?

If they're part of a religion that believes that sinful then no they're not wrong for believing that I don't know if you can ever say you're wrong in believing anything is when it comes to a religious concept

Oh I have no problem with saying that people who believe- and act on certain religious concepts are wrong.

When backward Muslims stone a woman to death for 'sin'- adultery- yeah that is wrong.

When backward Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin and push to pass laws to imprison homosexuals- yeah that is wrong.

That's the difference between beliefs and actions both can be right or wrong I don't know about believe so but even Jesus said render to Caesar what is

 

[rightwinger]

So anyway, the question was are people wrong for believing Homosexuality is a sin? Simple yes or no question

I think you can believe anything you want

The problem arises when you try to force your religious views about homosexuality onto the public. No, an elected county clerk should not be allowed to deny marriage licenses to gays because of her religious beliefs. No, a place of business should not be able to say......we don't serve gays here

 

[Divine Wind]

Do you believe in God? If not, you are making an argument even you don't believe.

A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules.

Okay- show me all the atheists who claim to have rules?

Matter of fact- use me as an example- when have I claimed to have rules- but will never prove what rules I live by.

Atheists live by the rule of law. Now you know.

Like Nazis? The rule of law was killing kikes. Are you good with that? During WWII, the rule of law was to imprison that Japanese? No problem for you there either?

I invoke Godwin's Law, so you lose. Please try again.

Atheists make up their own rules and, therefore, have no morals except what benefits them most.

The only logical position for a person of science is agnostic. Both Atheism and Theism are based upon belief...or, as atheists often claim, disbelief, but that's still a belief, not provable fact.

 

[Divine Wind]

In a sense, yet, if talking with people I know, at work etc., if someone is cheating on their mate, people are disgusted and talk badly about them, but if talking about a gay couple, it's looked at as a nice thing or at a minimum a too each their own thing

Cheating should be looked down upon, gay or straight. Breaking an oath is one of the most dishonorable things one can do; however, they are both sins at the end of the day if you're religious.

That is what SOME of the religious folks think apparently. They just love judging except when it's done to them. Lol.

Yeah, some certainly do. Those types sure love to throw your sins in your face, but suddenly change their tune to "we're all sinners" when it's thrown back at them.

That may be the dumbest and most defensive post I've ever seen from you....

Disagreed. Two words: Bill Clinton.

 

[Divine Wind]

Do you believe in God? If not, you are making an argument even you don't believe.

A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules.

Okay- show me all the atheists who claim to have rules?

Matter of fact- use me as an example- when have I claimed to have rules- but will never prove what rules I live by.

Maybe I missed your response to this.....

Stalin and Mao were atheists and had rules.

GW Bush is a Christian who had rules but it didn't stop him from destroying 2 countries for no good reason.

Afghanistan was fully justified. Agreed on Iraq. That was about greed, but I do not think it was GW's idea. Both Cheney and Rumsfeld were both well known to be supporting a strong US presence in Iraq. It cost us.

 

[Divine Wind]

I don't care if anyone finds my marriage sinful. Just leave me the fuck alone and I promise to do the same.

Don't let them make you feel bad about your marriage. There is nothing wrong with it, and you have found a person that you love and enjoy, and that is the only thing that matters. And you are a great person too.

Nothing said could make me feel bad about my relationship. I have the approval of my friends/family and that is all that matters. The rest can deal with it or get bent. lol

Good. I hate to think of you reading some of this crap and feeling bad. Some people are ignoramuses.

The only people that can really make me feel bad are already on my side. The rest is just noise.

It's not like heterosexuals (and people of all categories) don't deal with the same thing. If you are married and fall in love with someone else, it's considered a sin by Christians (well, if you act on it anyway). In fact, it's WORSE actually, because not only do Christians frown on it, pretty much everyone one else does too (believer or not). The difference is, homosexuality is in the process of moving from "taboo" to mainstream, so there is more outward resistance.

To be fair, and apples to apples, Adultery is one of the Ten Commandments, homosexuality is not. Probably for good reason as we've already discussed; there's a shitload more adulterers than homosexuals.

On the subject of the Ten Commandments, we see many of those broken all the time by self-avowed Christians. Specifically bearing false witness, coveting, the Sabbath, honoring parents, stealing (by fraud which is still stealing).

(I) I am the Lord thy God;thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(II) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
(III) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(IV) Honor thy father and thy mother.
(V) Thou shalt not kill.
(VI) Thou shalt not commit adultery.
(VII) Thou shalt not steal.
(VIII)Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
(IX) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.
(X) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife,nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's

 

[Divine Wind]

Bump. Sorry, I must have missed your reply since I was working all day.

Nope- frankly I have been busy and have forgotten.

It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays.

As I said- sizable portion hate gays.

Do you have any disagreement that when Tipsy said the one thing she found positive about ISIS was their killing gays- we can agree she 'despises' gays?

I want to make sure we can find any agreement here.

So I will go ahead and start compiling that list for you.

I know little about "Tipsy" and cannot vouch an informed opinion. I can vouch the opinion that killing anyone for anything is wrong. I'm against the death penalty. I'm also against laws condemning actions between consenting adults.

So you can't have an informed opinion about whether someone 'hates' gays when they say:

Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did.

Sure you can. Does an intelligent person question some asshole who gives a quote, but doesn't link the source? Your opinion, please.

You can use the search function at USMB like i can.

But please continue to rationalize about how this remark:
Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did

Is not indicative of hatred towards gays. Hell- you haven't even disagreed with it.

One nasty, horrible remark, especially taken out of context, does not justify saying "It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays."

 

[Divine Wind]

Stalin and Mao were subject to no rules- they gave rules to others.

Here was your claim:

A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules

I asked you to show how that applies to me- an atheist.

Remember you were the one who got your panties in a wad when I claimed that a large portion of USMB posters who posted against gays hate or detest gays.

You have claimed that 'atheists'- which includes all atheists- not a 'large portion' 'claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules'

Naming Mao and Stalin- infamous mass murderers- not only doesn't prove that they meet your claim- but has nothing to do with the millions and millions of atheists who are not murderers.

So prove that we atheists claim to have rules but will never prove what rules that they live by.

Start with me.

Exactly. Per my point, atheists have no rules. Taz backed this up.

Yes, both were mass murderers. Are you denying they were atheists? Are you trying to say they did it in the name of Christianity?