Is It Wrong to Think Homosexuality is a Sin?

[Syriusly]

A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules.

Okay- show me all the atheists who claim to have rules?

Matter of fact- use me as an example- when have I claimed to have rules- but will never prove what rules I live by.

Atheists live by the rule of law. Now you know.

Like Nazis? The rule of law was killing kikes. Are you good with that? During WWII, the rule of law was to imprison that Japanese? No problem for you there either?

I invoke Godwin's Law, so you lose. Please try again.

Atheists make up their own rules and, therefore, have no morals except what benefits them most..

Believers make up what 'rules' they believe that their religion tells them, and follow what benefits them the most.

 

[Syriusly]

Nope- frankly I have been busy and have forgotten.

It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays.

As I said- sizable portion hate gays.

Do you have any disagreement that when Tipsy said the one thing she found positive about ISIS was their killing gays- we can agree she 'despises' gays?

I want to make sure we can find any agreement here.

So I will go ahead and start compiling that list for you.

I know little about "Tipsy" and cannot vouch an informed opinion. I can vouch the opinion that killing anyone for anything is wrong. I'm against the death penalty. I'm also against laws condemning actions between consenting adults.

So you can't have an informed opinion about whether someone 'hates' gays when they say:

Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did.

Sure you can. Does an intelligent person question some asshole who gives a quote, but doesn't link the source? Your opinion, please.

You can use the search function at USMB like i can.

But please continue to rationalize about how this remark:
Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did

Is not indicative of hatred towards gays. Hell- you haven't even disagreed with it.

One nasty, horrible remark, especially taken out of context, does not justify saying "It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays."

a) I have never claimed that that single remark justifies saying that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays- there have been lots of posts that justify my claim- that happened to be one that I found particularly 'informative' about the person who posted it.

b) You once again fail to take a position about whether that remark itself is indicative of hatred towards gays.

 

[Divine Wind]

Okay- show me all the atheists who claim to have rules?

Matter of fact- use me as an example- when have I claimed to have rules- but will never prove what rules I live by.

Atheists live by the rule of law. Now you know.

Like Nazis? The rule of law was killing kikes. Are you good with that? During WWII, the rule of law was to imprison that Japanese? No problem for you there either?

I invoke Godwin's Law, so you lose. Please try again.

Atheists make up their own rules and, therefore, have no morals except what benefits them most..

Believers make up what 'rules' they believe that their religion tells them, and follow what benefits them the most.

Translation: You're correct, DW. Atheists make up their own rules. We'd never, ever take them from a book of wisdom thousands of years in the making. We just make them up as suits us.

Got it. Thanks. No worries, dude. Do as you please. Why should I care about your belief that we're all meat computers with no more value than a pile of shit?

 

[Syriusly]

Stalin and Mao were subject to no rules- they gave rules to others.

Here was your claim:

A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules

I asked you to show how that applies to me- an atheist.

Remember you were the one who got your panties in a wad when I claimed that a large portion of USMB posters who posted against gays hate or detest gays.

You have claimed that 'atheists'- which includes all atheists- not a 'large portion' 'claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules'

Naming Mao and Stalin- infamous mass murderers- not only doesn't prove that they meet your claim- but has nothing to do with the millions and millions of atheists who are not murderers.

So prove that we atheists claim to have rules but will never prove what rules that they live by.

Start with me.

Exactly. Per my point, atheists have no rules. Taz backed this up.

Yes, both were mass murderers. Are you denying they were atheists? Are you trying to say they did it in the name of Christianity?

Wow- that is some fancy dancing away from the actual comments in my post- here let me dial you back to my actual post:

1) This was your quote: A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules

I asked you to show how that applies to me- an atheist.

2) You have challenged me to prove that a large portion of USMB posters who post hateful things about gays actually hate gays- I have challenged you to prove that atheists- all atheists- claim to live with rules, but will never prove what rules that they live by, or why they should live by any rules.

Why won't you step up to prove your claim?

3) You named Stalin and Mao- and identified them as atheists. Are you saying that all atheists are mass murderers like Stalin and Mao? (that is of course what you do.....)

You claim that atheists don't live by rules, and claim to live by rules- prove it with me.

I am an atheist- prove it.

 

[Syriusly]

Atheists live by the rule of law. Now you know.

Like Nazis? The rule of law was killing kikes. Are you good with that? During WWII, the rule of law was to imprison that Japanese? No problem for you there either?

I invoke Godwin's Law, so you lose. Please try again.

Atheists make up their own rules and, therefore, have no morals except what benefits them most..

Believers make up what 'rules' they believe that their religion tells them, and follow what benefits them the most.

Translation: You're correct, DW. Atheists make up their own rules.

Translation: Divine Wind lies in his posts.

 

[Syriusly]

A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules.

Okay- show me all the atheists who claim to have rules?

Matter of fact- use me as an example- when have I claimed to have rules- but will never prove what rules I live by.

Atheists live by the rule of law. Now you know.

Like Nazis? The rule of law was killing kikes. Are you good with that? During WWII, the rule of law was to imprison that Japanese? No problem for you there either?

I invoke Godwin's Law, so you lose. Please try again.

Atheists make up their own rules and, therefore, have no morals except what benefits them most.

The only logical position for a person of science is agnostic. Both Atheism and Theism are based upon belief...or, as atheists often claim, disbelief, but that's still a belief, not provable fact.

My not believing in any gods is no more a belief than than my not collecting stamps is a hobby.

 

[Divine Wind]

I know little about "Tipsy" and cannot vouch an informed opinion. I can vouch the opinion that killing anyone for anything is wrong. I'm against the death penalty. I'm also against laws condemning actions between consenting adults.

So you can't have an informed opinion about whether someone 'hates' gays when they say:

Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did.

Sure you can. Does an intelligent person question some asshole who gives a quote, but doesn't link the source? Your opinion, please.

You can use the search function at USMB like i can.

But please continue to rationalize about how this remark:
Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did

Is not indicative of hatred towards gays. Hell- you haven't even disagreed with it.

One nasty, horrible remark, especially taken out of context, does not justify saying "It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays."

a) I have never claimed that that single remark justifies saying that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays- there have been lots of posts that justify my claim- that happened to be one that I found particularly 'informative' about the person who posted it.

b) You once again fail to take a position about whether that remark itself is indicative of hatred towards gays.

a) it seems you did since you keep harping about it.

b) scroll up and have someone who reads and understands English explain to you what "One nasty, horrible remark, especially taken out of context....." means.

 

[Divine Wind]

Okay- show me all the atheists who claim to have rules?

Matter of fact- use me as an example- when have I claimed to have rules- but will never prove what rules I live by.

Atheists live by the rule of law. Now you know.

Like Nazis? The rule of law was killing kikes. Are you good with that? During WWII, the rule of law was to imprison that Japanese? No problem for you there either?

I invoke Godwin's Law, so you lose. Please try again.

Atheists make up their own rules and, therefore, have no morals except what benefits them most.

The only logical position for a person of science is agnostic. Both Atheism and Theism are based upon belief...or, as atheists often claim, disbelief, but that's still a belief, not provable fact.

My not believing in any gods is no more a belief than than my not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Believe as you wish.

 

[Divine Wind]

....I am an atheist- prove it.

Are you claiming you are not? I thought you did. Am I mistaken? What are you religious beliefs, if you care to share.

 

[Syriusly]

So you can't have an informed opinion about whether someone 'hates' gays when they say:

Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did.

Sure you can. Does an intelligent person question some asshole who gives a quote, but doesn't link the source? Your opinion, please.

You can use the search function at USMB like i can.

But please continue to rationalize about how this remark:
Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did

Is not indicative of hatred towards gays. Hell- you haven't even disagreed with it.

One nasty, horrible remark, especially taken out of context, does not justify saying "It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays."

a) I have never claimed that that single remark justifies saying that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays- there have been lots of posts that justify my claim- that happened to be one that I found particularly 'informative' about the person who posted it.

b) You once again fail to take a position about whether that remark itself is indicative of hatred towards gays.

a) it seems you did since you keep harping about it.
.

Nope- an you can't quote me saying it- but hey keep lying- it appears this is what you like to do

I have never claimed that that single remark justifies saying that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays- there have been lots of posts that justify my claim- that happened to be one that I found particularly 'informative' about the person who posted it

 

[Syriusly]

....I am an atheist- prove it.

Are you claiming you are not? I thought you did. Am I mistaken? What are you religious beliefs, if you care to share.

1) This was your quote: A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules

I asked you to show how that applies to me- an atheist.

You claim that atheists don't live by rules, and claim to live by rules- prove it with me.

I am an atheist- prove it.

Or just keep lying.

 

[Divine Wind]

Sure you can. Does an intelligent person question some asshole who gives a quote, but doesn't link the source? Your opinion, please.

You can use the search function at USMB like i can.

But please continue to rationalize about how this remark:
Throwing gays off rooftops was the only decent thing Isis ever did

Is not indicative of hatred towards gays. Hell- you haven't even disagreed with it.

One nasty, horrible remark, especially taken out of context, does not justify saying "It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays."

a) I have never claimed that that single remark justifies saying that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays- there have been lots of posts that justify my claim- that happened to be one that I found particularly 'informative' about the person who posted it.

b) You once again fail to take a position about whether that remark itself is indicative of hatred towards gays.

a) it seems you did since you keep harping about it.
.

Nope- an you can't quote me saying it- but hey keep lying- it appears this is what you like to do

I have never claimed that that single remark justifies saying that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays- there have been lots of posts that justify my claim- that happened to be one that I found particularly 'informative' about the person who posted it

Awesome. So why do you keep repeating the same post out of context to prove your point that Christians are fucking assholes?

 

[Divine Wind]

As mentioned previously, I used to be an atheist but had a life changing experience at 16 which caused me to think there is more out there than what was only in front of my nose.

My first experience with college was a community college; living at home, paying my own bills, yada, yada. One particular professor impressed me greatly; Ron Smith. He mostly taught philosophy, but also co-taught classes related to psychology...and religion. He was an avowed atheist, drank Wild Turkey and smoked unfiltered Camels. I loved the guy and took every class he taught. He didn't seem to be very happy, but he was certainly enthusiastic about his work and made a big impression upon me.

 

[Divine Wind]

....I am an atheist- prove it.

Are you claiming you are not? I thought you did. Am I mistaken? What are you religious beliefs, if you care to share.

1) This was your quote: A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules

I asked you to show how that applies to me- an atheist.

You claim that atheists don't live by rules, and claim to live by rules- prove it with me.

I am an atheist- prove it.

Or just keep lying.

How am I supposed to prove what rules you choose to live by? You're an atheist. You have not rules except those you make up.

 

[Bonzi]

Don't let them make you feel bad about your marriage. There is nothing wrong with it, and you have found a person that you love and enjoy, and that is the only thing that matters. And you are a great person too.

Nothing said could make me feel bad about my relationship. I have the approval of my friends/family and that is all that matters. The rest can deal with it or get bent. lol

Good. I hate to think of you reading some of this crap and feeling bad. Some people are ignoramuses.

The only people that can really make me feel bad are already on my side. The rest is just noise.

It's not like heterosexuals (and people of all categories) don't deal with the same thing. If you are married and fall in love with someone else, it's considered a sin by Christians (well, if you act on it anyway). In fact, it's WORSE actually, because not only do Christians frown on it, pretty much everyone one else does too (believer or not). The difference is, homosexuality is in the process of moving from "taboo" to mainstream, so there is more outward resistance.

To be fair, and apples to apples, Adultery is one of the Ten Commandments, homosexuality is not. Probably for good reason as we've already discussed; there's a shitload more adulterers than homosexuals.

On the subject of the Ten Commandments, we see many of those broken all the time by self-avowed Christians. Specifically bearing false witness, coveting, the Sabbath, honoring parents, stealing (by fraud which is still stealing).

(I) I am the Lord thy God;thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(II) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
(III) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(IV) Honor thy father and thy mother.
(V) Thou shalt not kill.
(VI) Thou shalt not commit adultery.
(VII) Thou shalt not steal.
(VIII)Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
(IX) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.
(X) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife,nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's

The Christian take on this is that the 10 commandments are laws to show us how we just can't meet God's standards and how we need Jesus to be acceptable in His sight

 

[Divine Wind]

Nothing said could make me feel bad about my relationship. I have the approval of my friends/family and that is all that matters. The rest can deal with it or get bent. lol

Good. I hate to think of you reading some of this crap and feeling bad. Some people are ignoramuses.

The only people that can really make me feel bad are already on my side. The rest is just noise.

It's not like heterosexuals (and people of all categories) don't deal with the same thing. If you are married and fall in love with someone else, it's considered a sin by Christians (well, if you act on it anyway). In fact, it's WORSE actually, because not only do Christians frown on it, pretty much everyone one else does too (believer or not). The difference is, homosexuality is in the process of moving from "taboo" to mainstream, so there is more outward resistance.

To be fair, and apples to apples, Adultery is one of the Ten Commandments, homosexuality is not. Probably for good reason as we've already discussed; there's a shitload more adulterers than homosexuals.

On the subject of the Ten Commandments, we see many of those broken all the time by self-avowed Christians. Specifically bearing false witness, coveting, the Sabbath, honoring parents, stealing (by fraud which is still stealing).

(I) I am the Lord thy God;thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(II) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
(III) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(IV) Honor thy father and thy mother.
(V) Thou shalt not kill.
(VI) Thou shalt not commit adultery.
(VII) Thou shalt not steal.
(VIII)Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
(IX) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.
(X) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife,nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's

The Christian take on this is that the 10 commandments are laws to show us how we just can't meet God's standards and how we need Jesus to be acceptable in His sight

Some Christians, not all. Obviously the whole point of this thread is to point out that there are Christians who cherry-pick from the OT to condemn gays.

Bonzi, do you believe sexual preference is a choice or that people are born that way?

 

[LittleNipper]

Please- if you want to challenge me- at least try to be honest enough to use my actual words- rather than make up things I have said.

Here is what I said:
It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays.

I challenged all of you to prove me wrong.

Off the top of my head- without evening straining- that includes Stevie the Racist, Tipsy- but I will be glad to share some of the posts of the members of USMB who have cheered the deaths of gays on, or who have suggested that the proper course for gays is to hope that they all die, or are killed- see my signature for that lovely sentiment from Tipsy.

You can't prove your own claim? No surprise there.

Naming a few posters who have said hateful things doesn't equate to such even vague terms like "sizable portion" or equating posting "negatively" with "despise".

Example: It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about Christians - despise Christians.

Now, like you said, "Prove me wrong".

Bump. Sorry, I must have missed your reply since I was working all day.

Nope- frankly I have been busy and have forgotten.

It is quite clear that a sizable portion of the posters here at USMB who post negatively about gays- despise gays.

As I said- sizable portion hate gays.

Do you have any disagreement that when Tipsy said the one thing she found positive about ISIS was their killing gays- we can agree she 'despises' gays?

I want to make sure we can find any agreement here.

So I will go ahead and start compiling that list for you.

People hate. IMO, mostly out of fear. Still, you seem to relish attacking the religious without looking at the bigger picture. Why?.

Frankly I don't have a problem with 'the religious'- I have a problem with 'the religious' who want to tell Americans we should treat gays differently because of some fairy tale they believe in.

I would say about half of my friends are religious- mostly Christian, a few Buddhists and Muslims- I don't have a problem with any of them- nor do I attack their faith. And they are not telling everyone we know that gays should be thrown off of rooftops.

The issue seems to be that gays want to throw Christians in jail because Christians do not accept gay marriage as viable or worthy of respectability. The same can be said of drunks. Such behavior is not worthy of respectable regard.

 

[Bonzi]

Good. I hate to think of you reading some of this crap and feeling bad. Some people are ignoramuses.

The only people that can really make me feel bad are already on my side. The rest is just noise.

It's not like heterosexuals (and people of all categories) don't deal with the same thing. If you are married and fall in love with someone else, it's considered a sin by Christians (well, if you act on it anyway). In fact, it's WORSE actually, because not only do Christians frown on it, pretty much everyone one else does too (believer or not). The difference is, homosexuality is in the process of moving from "taboo" to mainstream, so there is more outward resistance.

To be fair, and apples to apples, Adultery is one of the Ten Commandments, homosexuality is not. Probably for good reason as we've already discussed; there's a shitload more adulterers than homosexuals.

On the subject of the Ten Commandments, we see many of those broken all the time by self-avowed Christians. Specifically bearing false witness, coveting, the Sabbath, honoring parents, stealing (by fraud which is still stealing).

(I) I am the Lord thy God;thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(II) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
(III) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(IV) Honor thy father and thy mother.
(V) Thou shalt not kill.
(VI) Thou shalt not commit adultery.
(VII) Thou shalt not steal.
(VIII)Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
(IX) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.
(X) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife,nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's

The Christian take on this is that the 10 commandments are laws to show us how we just can't meet God's standards and how we need Jesus to be acceptable in His sight

Some Christians, not all. Obviously the whole point of this thread is to point out that there are Christians who cherry-pick from the OT to condemn gays.

Bonzi, do you believe sexual preference is a choice or that people are born that way?

I understand from reading that there is evidence pointing to it being a born preference. However, it don't think that is the point.

 

[Divine Wind]

The only people that can really make me feel bad are already on my side. The rest is just noise.

It's not like heterosexuals (and people of all categories) don't deal with the same thing. If you are married and fall in love with someone else, it's considered a sin by Christians (well, if you act on it anyway). In fact, it's WORSE actually, because not only do Christians frown on it, pretty much everyone one else does too (believer or not). The difference is, homosexuality is in the process of moving from "taboo" to mainstream, so there is more outward resistance.

To be fair, and apples to apples, Adultery is one of the Ten Commandments, homosexuality is not. Probably for good reason as we've already discussed; there's a shitload more adulterers than homosexuals.

On the subject of the Ten Commandments, we see many of those broken all the time by self-avowed Christians. Specifically bearing false witness, coveting, the Sabbath, honoring parents, stealing (by fraud which is still stealing).

(I) I am the Lord thy God;thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(II) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
(III) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
(IV) Honor thy father and thy mother.
(V) Thou shalt not kill.
(VI) Thou shalt not commit adultery.
(VII) Thou shalt not steal.
(VIII)Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
(IX) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.
(X) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife,nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbor's

The Christian take on this is that the 10 commandments are laws to show us how we just can't meet God's standards and how we need Jesus to be acceptable in His sight

Some Christians, not all. Obviously the whole point of this thread is to point out that there are Christians who cherry-pick from the OT to condemn gays.

Bonzi, do you believe sexual preference is a choice or that people are born that way?

I understand from reading that there is evidence pointing to it being a born preference. However, it don't think that is the point.

Born preference? Do heterosexuals choose to be heterosexual? No. We're all wired that way.

Our only choice, like mentioned above, is what we do about it. If we choose to be married, we have a choice as to be faithful to marriage vows or not, but that doesn't change our innate desires.

If a person is wired to be gay, then an all merciful God would take that into consideration.

 

[Taz]

A favorite ploy by atheists. They claim to have rules, but will never prove what rules they live by or why they should live by any rules.

Okay- show me all the atheists who claim to have rules?

Matter of fact- use me as an example- when have I claimed to have rules- but will never prove what rules I live by.

Maybe I missed your response to this.....

Stalin and Mao were atheists and had rules.

GW Bush is a Christian who had rules but it didn't stop him from destroying 2 countries for no good reason.

Afghanistan was fully justified. Agreed on Iraq. That was about greed, but I do not think it was GW's idea. Both Cheney and Rumsfeld were both well known to be supporting a strong US presence in Iraq. It cost us.

Afghanistan wasn't justified, the Afghans had nothing to do with 9/11. That's like invading Italy to get at the mafia.