Zone1 Is Jesus God?

[hobelim]

We see the risen Christ in Revelation bearing several titles of God. Last I checked, God is not fond of people taking His titles for themselves.

"We see"? Right.

I heard that God could get a little testy too! Thats why you are in the dire predicament that you are in. The more you seem to proceed towards the reward of a glorious paradise, eternal life in heaven, (after you die), derp, in your unrestrained imagination by spreading lies about Jesus the more you recede from heaven, eternal life, peace, and sanity, in reality here and now on earth.

You have your reward already! Death and Hades.

Some talking serpent beguiled you into defying God so you've lost your mind. Thems the breaks!

If you were blind you would not be guilty of sin but because you say, "We see" your guilt remains

 

[hobelim]

Address the fact that we see the risen Christ bearing God's name and titles.

How many of you are there?

 

[hadit]

How many of you are there?

And again you won't address the question. You know that says a lot about you, right?

 

[hadit]

"We see"? Right.

I heard that God could get a little testy too! Thats why you are in the dire predicament that you are in. The more you seem to proceed towards the reward of a glorious paradise, eternal life in heaven, (after you die), derp, in your unrestrained imagination by spreading lies about Jesus the more you recede from heaven, eternal life, peace, and sanity, in reality here and now on earth.

You have your reward already! Death and Hades.

Some talking serpent beguiled you into defying God so you've lost your mind. Thems the breaks!

If you were blind you would not be guilty of sin but because you say, "We see" your guilt remains

And you're not addressing the question. I would have thought that you knew by now your juvenile antics don't work on me.

 

[TruthNotBS]

How many of them inadvertently left in the scene we see in Revelation where the Word carries on Him God's title? Until you can convince me that God allows someone else to carry His title, you are stuck. And, hey, there's this one as well:

Revelation 1:

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isaiah 44

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Now, can you convince me that John was seeing someone other than Yeshua glorified there? Also, why does Isaiah reference TWO distinct people there?

There are only three places in the entire Bible where the title "Alpha and Omega" is used: Rev. 1:8; Rev. 21:6; Rev. 22:13. "Alpha and Omega" as found at Rev. 1:11 in the KJV and NKJV is recognized as spurious by most knowledgeable modern Bible scholars:

Virtually all modern translations do not include in Rev 1:11 the following words that are in the KJV version of that verse:

"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,"

This wording at the beginning of the KJV's version of Rev. 1:11 is not found in virtually any NT Greek texts, nor is it mentioned, even as a footnote, in nearly all modern translations or in Bruce Metzger's definitive A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition, New York: United Bible Societies, 1994.

There are only three pre-ninth century Greek MSS which attest to this passage [Rev. 1:11], and all three of them omit the phrase "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last." In addition, many later MSS and versions also omit. Hodges and Farstad's "Majority" text omits, and Robinson and Pierpont's "Byzantine/Majority" text omits. Thus whether one bases one's text largely on pre-ninth century MSS, or whether one bases one's text on the Majority of Greek MSS, either way, this phrase should be omitted.
.....................................................

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown - Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

Revelation 1:11. I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last; and--The oldest manuscripts, omit all this clause.
Revelation 1 Commentary - Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible
.......................................................

The Adam Clarke Commentary

Revelation 1

Verse 11." I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and
"This whole clause is wanting in ABC, thirty-one others; some editions; the Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Slavonic, Vulgate, Arethas, Andreas, and Primasius. Griesbach has left it out of the text." - Revelation 1 - Clarke's Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

The truth of the above can be observed by merely examining most Greek NT texts, most Trinitarian Bible translations, or most ancient Greek manuscripts of the NT .

...............................................

Some (e.g. Martin, p. 92, Kingdom of the Cults, 1985) attempt to prove their "Jehovah is Jesus" idea by pointing to Rev. 1:8 where God is clearly called "Alpha and Omega" and then saying that Jesus claims the same title at Rev. 22:13. They point to Rev. 22:16 as proof that it is Jesus who is claiming to be the Alpha and Omega of verse 13. Since Jehovah is clearly Alpha and Omega (Rev. 1:8), they say, and Jesus is Alpha and Omega (Rev. 22:13), then Jesus IS Jehovah.

Although one might make a case for the "title confusion trick" (see the TC study) here (e.g., Jehovah is the only savior (yasha, - Hebrew) - Is. 43:11, ASV - and Ehud is a savior (yasha, - Hebrew) - Judges 3:15, ASV - therefore Ehud must be Jehovah), it is most likely that this is simply an example of the "speaker confusion trick."

Usually the "speaker confusion trick" works best when a Bible which does not use quotation marks (such as the KJV) is examined., As you probably know, the original Bible writers didn't use any punctuation or capitalization and frequently ran the words of one speaker right into those of another speaker without any warning or indication. Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible, for example, warns Bible readers:

"The language of the MESSENGER frequently glides into that of the SENDER ..." and, "what a SERVANT says or does is ascribed to the MASTER." - "Hints and Helps to Bible Interpretation" - Preface.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Example of Speaker Confusion Trick: "John is Alpha and Omega"

To see how easy it is to use the "speaker confusion trick" let's "prove" that John is the Alpha and Omega [1] of Rev. 1:8.

We are instructed by John in the introduction of his Revelation (Rev. 1:1) that we will be hearing this revelation from God which he gave to Jesus Christ and which was sent through his angel to his servant John. So, it is God's revelation, Jesus' revelation, the angel's revelation, and John's revelation, and we will be hearing the words of all of them from time to time.

At Rev. 1:6-7, John is obviously speaking:

...hath made us kings and priests unto God .... [The KJV continues in Rev. 1:8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (1:9) I JOHN, who also am your brother....

Notice, since the KJV doesn't use quotation marks at all (they hadn't yet been invented in 1611), you are free to mentally insert them whenever and wherever you wish (as was the case in the original manuscripts and their copies for centuries thereafter). Therefore, you may interpret the whole statement of Rev. 1:8 as being the words of the Lord, or you may decide that the Lord's actual words end at "the beginning and the ending," and that the rest of the words in Rev. 1:8 are descriptive words added by John.

If you look at Rev. 1:8 in The Jerusalem Bible, RSV, NRSV, GW, KJ21, NEB, NET, REB, and WEB, you will find that their trinitarian translators, editors, and publishers have decided that only the first part of Rev. 1:8 is spoken by God, and they use beginning and ending quotation marks to show that.

You have no argument in Rev 1, for the deity of a human being. Jesus is the Son of God, not God.

 

[hadit]

There are only three places in the entire Bible where the title "Alpha and Omega" is used: Rev. 1:8; Rev. 21:6; Rev. 22:13. "Alpha and Omega" as found at Rev. 1:11 in the KJV and NKJV is recognized as spurious by most knowledgeable modern Bible scholars:

Virtually all modern translations do not include in Rev 1:11 the following words that are in the KJV version of that verse:

"Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,"

This wording at the beginning of the KJV's version of Rev. 1:11 is not found in virtually any NT Greek texts, nor is it mentioned, even as a footnote, in nearly all modern translations or in Bruce Metzger's definitive A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition, New York: United Bible Societies, 1994.

There are only three pre-ninth century Greek MSS which attest to this passage [Rev. 1:11], and all three of them omit the phrase "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last." In addition, many later MSS and versions also omit. Hodges and Farstad's "Majority" text omits, and Robinson and Pierpont's "Byzantine/Majority" text omits. Thus whether one bases one's text largely on pre-ninth century MSS, or whether one bases one's text on the Majority of Greek MSS, either way, this phrase should be omitted.
.....................................................

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown - Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

Revelation 1:11. I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last; and--The oldest manuscripts, omit all this clause.
Revelation 1 Commentary - Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible
.......................................................

The Adam Clarke Commentary

Revelation 1

Verse 11." I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and
"This whole clause is wanting in ABC, thirty-one others; some editions; the Syriac, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Slavonic, Vulgate, Arethas, Andreas, and Primasius. Griesbach has left it out of the text." - Revelation 1 - Clarke's Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

The truth of the above can be observed by merely examining most Greek NT texts, most Trinitarian Bible translations, or most ancient Greek manuscripts of the NT .

...............................................

Some (e.g. Martin, p. 92, Kingdom of the Cults, 1985) attempt to prove their "Jehovah is Jesus" idea by pointing to Rev. 1:8 where God is clearly called "Alpha and Omega" and then saying that Jesus claims the same title at Rev. 22:13. They point to Rev. 22:16 as proof that it is Jesus who is claiming to be the Alpha and Omega of verse 13. Since Jehovah is clearly Alpha and Omega (Rev. 1:8), they say, and Jesus is Alpha and Omega (Rev. 22:13), then Jesus IS Jehovah.

Although one might make a case for the "title confusion trick" (see the TC study) here (e.g., Jehovah is the only savior (yasha, - Hebrew) - Is. 43:11, ASV - and Ehud is a savior (yasha, - Hebrew) - Judges 3:15, ASV - therefore Ehud must be Jehovah), it is most likely that this is simply an example of the "speaker confusion trick."

Usually the "speaker confusion trick" works best when a Bible which does not use quotation marks (such as the KJV) is examined., As you probably know, the original Bible writers didn't use any punctuation or capitalization and frequently ran the words of one speaker right into those of another speaker without any warning or indication. Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible, for example, warns Bible readers:

"The language of the MESSENGER frequently glides into that of the SENDER ..." and, "what a SERVANT says or does is ascribed to the MASTER." - "Hints and Helps to Bible Interpretation" - Preface.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Example of Speaker Confusion Trick: "John is Alpha and Omega"

To see how easy it is to use the "speaker confusion trick" let's "prove" that John is the Alpha and Omega [1] of Rev. 1:8.

We are instructed by John in the introduction of his Revelation (Rev. 1:1) that we will be hearing this revelation from God which he gave to Jesus Christ and which was sent through his angel to his servant John. So, it is God's revelation, Jesus' revelation, the angel's revelation, and John's revelation, and we will be hearing the words of all of them from time to time.

At Rev. 1:6-7, John is obviously speaking:

...hath made us kings and priests unto God .... [The KJV continues in Rev. 1:8] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (1:9) I JOHN, who also am your brother....

Notice, since the KJV doesn't use quotation marks at all (they hadn't yet been invented in 1611), you are free to mentally insert them whenever and wherever you wish (as was the case in the original manuscripts and their copies for centuries thereafter). Therefore, you may interpret the whole statement of Rev. 1:8 as being the words of the Lord, or you may decide that the Lord's actual words end at "the beginning and the ending," and that the rest of the words in Rev. 1:8 are descriptive words added by John.

If you look at Rev. 1:8 in The Jerusalem Bible, RSV, NRSV, GW, KJ21, NEB, NET, REB, and WEB, you will find that their trinitarian translators, editors, and publishers have decided that only the first part of Rev. 1:8 is spoken by God, and they use beginning and ending quotation marks to show that.

You have no argument in Rev 1, for the deity of a human being. Jesus is the Son of God, not God.

Basically, your argument boils down to, "I don't like what it says, so I'll pretend I can just decide who's talking when and where I want to". From Revelation 2:

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Clearly, the first and the last is Yeshua, since He was dead and is alive, and He has one of God's titles.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Basically, your argument boils down to, "I don't like what it says, so I'll pretend I can just decide who's talking when and where I want to". From Revelation 2:

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Clearly, the first and the last is Yeshua, since He was dead and is alive, and He has one of God's titles.

First show me exactly where YHWH God has that title and where it says anywhere in the Bible, that a human being can't share one of the titles of YHWH? YHWH is the father, and Abraham is the father. YHWH is a shepherd, and there are shepherds in Israel. YHWH is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and David is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. David was even worshipped within the context of worshiping YHWH. David sat upon the throne of YHWH in Jerusalem.

Do you even know what it means to be the first and the last or the Aleph and Tav in Hebrew or Alpha and Omega in Greek? It doesn't mean one has a beginning or an end, right? This phrase has a figurative sense, not a literal one. Do you believe God has a beginning and an end? It means that Jesus is the top priority, the author of one's salvation being that he holds the keys of life, after dying and resurrecting from the dead. YHWH God doesn't die. You can't kill YHWH God, but Jesus the Son of YHWH can die and he did and he rose from the dead.

 

[hobelim]

And again you won't address the question. You know that says a lot about you, right?

If you tell me how many of you are there I will explain to you the significance of y'all seeing Christ bearing Gods titles knowing in advance that you will not be able to bear the deeper implications.

 

[hadit]

First show me exactly where YHWH God has that title

Deuteronomy 10:

16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

and where it says anywhere in the Bible, that a human being can't share one of the titles of YHWH? YHWH is the father, and Abraham is the father.

Where is Abraham "The Father"? Not "Our father", or the "Father of Nations".

YHWH is a shepherd, and there are shepherds in Israel.

Seriously? You can't do better than that? Who is "The Good Shepherd"?

YHWH is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and David is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Where is he called that?

David was even worshipped within the context of worshiping YHWH. David sat upon the throne of YHWH in Jerusalem.

Again, where?

Do you even know what it means to be the first and the last or the Aleph and Tav in Hebrew or Alpha and Omega in Greek? It doesn't mean one has a beginning or an end, right? This phrase has a figurative sense, not a literal one. Do you believe God has a beginning and an end? It means that Jesus is the top priority, the author of one's salvation being that he holds the keys of life, after dying and resurrecting from the dead. YHWH God doesn't die. You can't kill YHWH God, but Jesus the Son of YHWH can die and he did and he rose from the dead.

God has that title, its as simple as that.

 

[hadit]

If you tell me how many of you are there I will explain to you the significance of y'all seeing Christ bearing Gods titles knowing in advance that you will not be able to bear the deeper implications.

"We" is everyone who understands basic English and reads what I quoted. You tell me how many that is. Now address the question. You have had time to look it up and make up an answer, haven't you? I mean, I can a delaying tactic a mile away, and that's a classic one.

 

[hobelim]

"We" is everyone who understands basic English and reads what I quoted

Reading what you posted by no means suggests that everyone agrees with your irrational words

So I'll ask again, How many of you are there writing what you wrote?

You may not know this but when an individual refers to themselves as WE, they either think of themselves as royalty or are speaking for a crowd. Either way the prognosis is not very good.

Did you ever wonder why Jesus asked the Gerasene demoniac the exact same thing? You should

 

[hadit]

Reading what you posted by no means suggests that everyone agrees with your irrational words

So I'll ask again, How many of you are there writing what you wrote?

You may not know this but when an individual refers to themselves as WE, they either think of themselves as royalty or are speaking for a crowd. Either way the prognosis is not very good.

Did you ever wonder why Jesus asked the Gerasene demoniac the exact same thing? You should

And you're still avoiding the question.

 

[hobelim]

And you're still avoiding the question.

So you say as you avoid my questions and completely ignore irrefutable points that I have made..

You might as well go back to whatever herd of swine you came from blindly stampeding off a cliff

Y'all.

 

[hadit]

So you say as you avoid my questions and completely ignore irrefutable points that I have made..

You might as well go back to whatever herd of swine you came from blindly stampeding off a cliff

Y'all.

Okay, you've had your chances. Obviously, you can't answer it.

 

[hobelim]

Okay, you've had your chances. Obviously, you can't answer it.

Tenga mucho cuidado en su proceder; no me obligue a enseñarle lo que yo sé.

 

[hadit]

Tenga mucho cuidado en su proceder; no me obligue a enseñarle lo que yo sé.

I'm sorry you couldn't answer.

 

[ding]

Tenga mucho cuidado en su proceder; no me obligue a enseñarle lo que yo sé.

And when you lose control you'll reap the harvest you have sown.

 

[hobelim]

And when you lose control you'll reap the harvest you have sown.

And its too late to lose the weight you used to need to throw around, so have a good drown as you go down all alone........

 

[TruthNotBS]

Deuteronomy 10:

16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
18 He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

Where is Abraham "The Father"? Not "Our father", or the "Father of Nations".

Seriously? You can't do better than that? Who is "The Good Shepherd"?

Where is he called that?

Again, where?

God has that title, its as simple as that.

You didn't show where YHWH Father has the title "Aleph/Tav" or "Alpha/Omega". God is Abbah, but so is Abraham, whose very name means father of nations or father of a people. God is the King of Kings and David is also the King, above all of the kings of the Earth. We read in Psalms 89:

v26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.’ v27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.v28 I will maintain my love for him forever, and my covenant with him will never fail.v29 I will establish his line forever, his throne as long as the heavens endure.

Psa 45:5-7 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee. (6) Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: the scepter of thy kingdom is a right scepter. (7) Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

David is the King over all kings and even identified as "Elohim"/God in Psalms 45:5-7. David and His sons sit upon the very throne of YHWH in Jerusalem:

1Ch 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of YHWH as king instead of David his father, and prospered, and all Israel obeyed him.

David was worshipped within the context of worshiping YHWH. When the Israelites fell on their faces before the throne of David (which is also the throne of YHWH in Jerusalem), they were worshiping YHWH and King David, who represents YHWH's Kingship and Power:

1Ch 29:20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless YHWH your God. And all the congregation blessed YHWH God of their fathers and bowed down their heads, and worshipped YHWH, and the king.

They worshipped YHWH and their king, King David, who sat on the throne of YHWH. The kings of Israel were kings over the Kingdom of YHWH:

1Ch_28:5 And of all my sons, (for YHWH hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of YHWH over Israel.

2Ch_13:8 And now ye think to withstand the kingdom of YHWH in the hand of the sons of David; and ye be a great multitude, and there are with you golden calves, which Jeroboam made you for gods.

The Kingdom of YHWH God is in the hands of the sons of David. They are kings over the Kingdom of YHWH, sitting upon His throne in Jerusalem. In Psalms 45:5, David (or Solomon), is identified as Elohim/God, similar to how the judges are identified as Elohim (Exodus 21:6, Exodus 22:8-9, Psalm 82:1-6) and Moses was also Elohim to Pharaoh and his brother Aaron:

Exodus 7:1: "And YHWH said unto Moses, See, I have made thee God/Elohim to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet."

Exodus 4:16: "And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God/Elohim."

Human beings can carry some of the titles of God, even the term "Elohim". Jesus is going to give his disciples the Name of His Father, YHWH:

Rev 14:1 "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him a hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."

The Name of YHWH will be written on the foreheads of Christ's disciples.

Rev 2:26-28 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: (27) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. (28) And I will give him the morning star.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

The disciples of Christ, receive THE NAME OF YHWH, written on their foreheads and they sit on the throne of YHWH, ruling the nations with a rod of iron. The official representatives of YHWH, are identified with YHWH. We see this throughout the Bible. The messenger or servant of YHWH, is functioning on behalf of YHWH, hence is often identified with God Himself. There's no ontological equality there, it's a functional equality. The servant adopts the titles, name of His King and Lord, when he's on official business, representing His Master. He has power of attorney. This is the Hebraic, Biblical principle of agency, also known as "Shaliach":

“Agent (Heb. Shaliah): The main point of the Jewish law of agency is expressed in the dictum, “a person’s agent is regarded as the person himself” (Ned. 72B; Kidd, 41b). Therefore any act committed by a duly appointed agent is regarded as having been committed by the principal, who therefore bears full responsibility for it with consequent complete absence of liability on the part of the agent.” (The Encyclopedia of the Jewish Religion, R.J.Z. Werblowsky, G. Wigoder, 1986, p. 15.)

Why did Jesus call Peter "Satan", when Peter became a mouthpiece of Satan?

Mat_16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Peter was being used by Satan, when he asserted that Jesus shouldn't suffer and die. His mouth became the mouthpiece, the tool, of Satan, hence Peter is identified as Satan. If one is used by YHWH, becoming the mouthpiece (an instrument or tool) of YHWH or serving Him as a messenger, he can be identified with YHWH. There are many examples throughout the Bible, in both the Hebrew and NT.

Compare the gospel stories about the Centurion whom Jesus honored for having exceptional faith and compare them. In one, it's the Centurion himself who approaches Jesus and in the other gospel, it's the messengers of the Centurion. The messengers are identified as the Centurion himself because they were sent by the Centurion. This is the ancient law of agency, where the agent takes upon himself the titles, name, and identity of the person they're representing.

“Jesus is thus a faithful shaliach, or agent; Jewish law taught that the man’s agent was as a man himself (backed by his full authority), to the extent that the agent faithfully represented him. Moses and the Old Testament prophets were sometimes viewed as God’s agents.” (The IVP Bible Background Commentary New Testament, Craig S. Keener on John 5:30.)


“Johannine christology appears to have been fashioned from Jewish wisdom ideas and the related concept of the shaliach (lit. “one who is sent” from heaven; shaliach in Hebrew, apostolos in Greek). Shaliach and wisdom ideas were easily exploited by first-century Christians who were trying to explain to themselves and to others who Jesus was and what was the nature of his relationship to God. In the Fourth Gospel Jesus is presented as the Word that became flesh (Jn 1:1, 14). The function of the Johannine “Word” (logos) approximates that of Wisdom, which in biblical and postbiblical traditions is sometimes personified (Prov 8:1–9:6; Sir 24:1–34; one should note that in Sir 24:3, Wisdom is identified as the word that proceeds from God’s mouth). As God’s shaliach (see Jn 13:16; 17:3; cf. Mt 15:24; Lk 4:18, 43; Heb 3:1) Jesus is able to reveal the Father (Jn 14:9 “He who has seen me has seen the father”) and complete his “work” on earth (Jn 17:4: “I have accomplished the work which you gave me to do”)…..(Dictionary of the Later New Testament & Its Developments, eds. Martin, Davids, “Christianity and Judaism: Partings of The Ways”, 3.2. Johannine Christology.)


“In Hebrew thought a patriarch’s personality extended through his entire household to his wives, his sons and their wives, his daughters, servants in his household and even in some sense his property…In a specialized sense when the patriarch as lord of his household deputized his trusted servant as his malak (his messenger or angel) the man was endowed with the authority and resources of his lord to represent him fully and transact business in his name. In Semitic thought this messenger-representative was conceived of as being personally — and in his very words — the presence of the sender.” (R.A. Johnson, The One and the Many in the Israelite Conception of God, quoted by Juan Baixeras, “The Blasphemy of Jesus of Nazareth.”)


"The origin of the apostolic office lies not in the juridical or civic Jewish institution as such but in the concept on which it is based, the idea expressed, for example in Mishnah Berakhot 5.5: ‘a man’s agent is like to himself.’ [This Jewish principle of agency is] the nucleus not only of the Jewish designation of shaliach, but also of the Christian apostolate as we find it in the NT….behind the Christian terminology is not primarily the functional aspect of being sent on a mission, connected with the Greek word [apostolos], but the specific Semitic and Jewish concept of representative authority which is implied in the designation of shaliach….As a matter of fact, St Paul’s letters are the only early document from which a reconstruction of apostolic self-consciousness seems at all possible [i.e.,] God or Christ is speaking through his mouth [1Thess 2.13; 2Cor 5.20; 13.3], like the prophet Jeremiah he is given authority to build up and destroy [2Cor 10.8; 13.10; and Gal 4.14]. Of course, this is reminiscent of [Matt 10.40; Luke 10.16. [In the OT] the Hebrew verb shalach is regularly used for the sending of prophets and the normal rendering of shalach in the Septuagint is apostellein [cp. Mat 23.34ff.]" ( “Origin & Early History of the Apostolic Office,” T. Korteweg, in The Apostolic Age in Patristic Thought, ed. Hilhorst, p 6f.)

Just because Jesus bears a few of the titles of His heavenly Father, that doesn't make him co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial with YHWH-Father. Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God, YHWH, not literally YHWH Himself. He bears The Name of YHWH, but so do his disciples, who will have The Name of YHWH on their foreheads, forever. YHWH isn't just one person, but a family of countless holy-spirits. The angels are holy and they're spirits, and they're of the family of YHWH, and so are we if we are disciples of Jesus Christ. We bear the family Name of our Father YHWH. We have it etched right on our foreheads.

 

[ding]

And its too late to lose the weight you used to need to throw around, so have a good drown as you go down all alone........

I'm never alone. I have a redeemer.