Is Obama Really this Stupid?

[JoeB131]

There is plenty of scientific evidence that the only 100% effective method of birth control is abstinence. If you want to base your defense of Obama on science you are going to loose, want to try again, or will you simply admit you were wrong and that health insurance should not be required to cover things simply because a politician likes it?

If we actually take my comparison to it actual logical conclusion you will see that the issue is not about using contraceptives, it is about forcing health insurers, and employers, to cover things, and forcing people that do not want, or need, it to pay for it. Why should gay couples have to carry an insurance policy that covers the pill? Can you think of any reason two men who are married to each other should be forced to buy birth control, even if they don't use it?

That is what is you are arguing for, which is why my example about forcing insurers and employers to cover treatment for gay people a viable argument against your position. If you were actually capable of thinking logically you would see that. The fact that you are attempting to resort to misdirection and outright lies to defend your position proves you know how flimsy it is.

Oh, please. Your argument is weak and you know it. Health insurers should provide basic coverage. Not what they feel like covering or what they think they can get away with. If you are going to insist on making it a private system, then you have to have standards that the END USER is happy with, not third parties.

I personally think employer provided health insurance is a horrible idea, we are the ONLY country in the world that does it this way. The only reason we have Employer based HI is because most people pay in more than they really ever use.

It should be government regulated, because, frankly, I shouldn't be forced to remember my insuance agreement from five years ago for treatments that I might need today. "Oops, we don't cover cancer. That's a pre-existing condition".

 

[JoeB131]

Wow. My guess is, even with the entire Internet at your finger tips, you will not be able to find a single legitimate reference to anything like that ever happening.

Well, you'd be wrong.


"Monsignor, Fathers, Sisters, fellow members of the CYO:

I am glad to be here today. I said to the Monsignor coming up that I was pleased to see the Sisters, that in my experience Monsignors and Bishops are all Republicans while Sisters are all Democrats!"

Read more at the American Presidency Project: The American Presidency Project John F. Kennedy: Remarks in New York City at the National Convention of the Catholic Youth Organization.

Thanks for proving me right. What you just linked to was a joke he told to a group of Catholics after meeting with a Monsignor, not him actually refusing to meet with any Bishops.

Congratulations, I thought rdean was the only poster to provide links that proved he didn't know enough to come in from the cold.

Ooooookay, I know you're stretching now. You said no quote existed. I pointed out it did. I suspect that you don't make a joke like that if you don't already know it's true.

 

[JoeB131]

The very nature of this thread is nothing more than typical Republicans trying to control the conversation.

And notice it is them who continue to bring up religion? Its because without this wedge issue, they wouldn't stand a chance.

If Republicans really care about Christianity, no way they will vote for a Mormon. They say other Christians' do not have the authority from God. It died with Jesus' aposiles supposedly, according to Mormons.

But Mormons do have the authority. When God visited Joseph Smith in 1400, God had him pick apostles and they have passed on their authority, FROM GOD.

Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. Mormons think your churches are nothing more than cults.

I'd rather we leave religion out of politics. I think your all crazy. But right wingers who are supporting Romney are in for a big surprise once you have picked him as your nominee. I don't think evangelicals will vote Mormon once they learn the differences. But its your job to vet him. Hope you do better than how you vetted Palin before deciding.

I think for these jokers, their hate for Obama is so strong, ROmney could be a worshipper of C'Thulhu and they'd still vote for him.

"Romney/C'THulhu 2012- Why vote for the LESSER of two evils?"

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They need to get over themselves? You are the idiot that thinks adding mandates to health insurance for political reasons is a good idea. Don't come crying to me when you are forced to pay for political policies from the other side of the aisle, it will be your fault for supporting this.

It's not a political reason, it's a practical reason.

The only people who should be in on a medical decision should be the doctor and patient. Period.

The insurance industry is already full of mandates, for a good reason. Otherwise, you'd just have insurance companies taking people's money and then refusing to pay for treatments... which by the way, is pretty much is what was happening until fairly recently.

It is political. All mandates on health insurance are political, and they all serve to drive up the cost of health insurance.

By the way, none of those mandates prevent insurance companies from refusing to pay for treatment. What they do is force insurers to cover things like alcohol and drug treatment in order to defray the cost of the war on drugs. I would urge you to educate yourself, but that would take years.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, I'm done for the night.. gonna go see who is losing the superbowl.. Have fun.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The very nature of this thread is nothing more than typical Republicans trying to control the conversation.

And notice it is them who continue to bring up religion? Its because without this wedge issue, they wouldn't stand a chance.

If Republicans really care about Christianity, no way they will vote for a Mormon. They say other Christians' do not have the authority from God. It died with Jesus' aposiles supposedly, according to Mormons.

But Mormons do have the authority. When God visited Joseph Smith in 1400, God had him pick apostles and they have passed on their authority, FROM GOD.

Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. Mormons think your churches are nothing more than cults.

I'd rather we leave religion out of politics. I think your all crazy. But right wingers who are supporting Romney are in for a big surprise once you have picked him as your nominee. I don't think evangelicals will vote Mormon once they learn the differences. But its your job to vet him. Hope you do better than how you vetted Palin before deciding.

Do you feel smarter now?

Newsflash, you aren't.

 

[JoeB131]

It is political. All mandates on health insurance are political, and they all serve to drive up the cost of health insurance.

By the way, none of those mandates prevent insurance companies from refusing to pay for treatment. What they do is force insurers to cover things like alcohol and drug treatment in order to defray the cost of the war on drugs. I would urge you to educate yourself, but that would take years.

I would think that would be a totall fucking awesome idea. We are treating a medical issue like a criminal one, throwing 2 million people in jail and not making our country one bit safer.

 

[Annie]

The very nature of this thread is nothing more than typical Republicans trying to control the conversation.

And notice it is them who continue to bring up religion? Its because without this wedge issue, they wouldn't stand a chance.

If Republicans really care about Christianity, no way they will vote for a Mormon. They say other Christians' do not have the authority from God. It died with Jesus' aposiles supposedly, according to Mormons.

But Mormons do have the authority. When God visited Joseph Smith in 1400, God had him pick apostles and they have passed on their authority, FROM GOD.

Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. Mormons think your churches are nothing more than cults.

I'd rather we leave religion out of politics. I think your all crazy. But right wingers who are supporting Romney are in for a big surprise once you have picked him as your nominee. I don't think evangelicals will vote Mormon once they learn the differences. But its your job to vet him. Hope you do better than how you vetted Palin before deciding.

Yeah, the OP was all about that. You are more ignorant by the year.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There is plenty of scientific evidence that the only 100% effective method of birth control is abstinence. If you want to base your defense of Obama on science you are going to loose, want to try again, or will you simply admit you were wrong and that health insurance should not be required to cover things simply because a politician likes it?

If we actually take my comparison to it actual logical conclusion you will see that the issue is not about using contraceptives, it is about forcing health insurers, and employers, to cover things, and forcing people that do not want, or need, it to pay for it. Why should gay couples have to carry an insurance policy that covers the pill? Can you think of any reason two men who are married to each other should be forced to buy birth control, even if they don't use it?

That is what is you are arguing for, which is why my example about forcing insurers and employers to cover treatment for gay people a viable argument against your position. If you were actually capable of thinking logically you would see that. The fact that you are attempting to resort to misdirection and outright lies to defend your position proves you know how flimsy it is.

Oh, please. Your argument is weak and you know it. Health insurers should provide basic coverage. Not what they feel like covering or what they think they can get away with. If you are going to insist on making it a private system, then you have to have standards that the END USER is happy with, not third parties.

I personally think employer provided health insurance is a horrible idea, we are the ONLY country in the world that does it this way. The only reason we have Employer based HI is because most people pay in more than they really ever use.

It should be government regulated, because, frankly, I shouldn't be forced to remember my insuance agreement from five years ago for treatments that I might need today. "Oops, we don't cover cancer. That's a pre-existing condition".

Define basic coverage. The federal government thinks basic coverage means covering things I don't need, like breast cancer, contraception, and a bunch of other political stuff. Personally, I think it means covering doctors visits, illnesses I choose to insure against because I have a history that justifies it, and emergency coverage in case of accident. I doubt I am going to suddenly develop diabetes or high blood pressure, and my doctor agrees with me, yet it is impossible for me to get insurance that only covers my needs because of all the politically motivated mandates.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Well, you'd be wrong.


"Monsignor, Fathers, Sisters, fellow members of the CYO:

I am glad to be here today. I said to the Monsignor coming up that I was pleased to see the Sisters, that in my experience Monsignors and Bishops are all Republicans while Sisters are all Democrats!"

Read more at the American Presidency Project: The American Presidency Project John F. Kennedy: Remarks in New York City at the National Convention of the Catholic Youth Organization.

Thanks for proving me right. What you just linked to was a joke he told to a group of Catholics after meeting with a Monsignor, not him actually refusing to meet with any Bishops.

Congratulations, I thought rdean was the only poster to provide links that proved he didn't know enough to come in from the cold.

Ooooookay, I know you're stretching now. You said no quote existed. I pointed out it did. I suspect that you don't make a joke like that if you don't already know it's true.

You posted that JFK refused to meet with Bishops because they are all Republicans. I challenged that anything like that ever happened, and you linked to a joke he told. Now you are trying to say I wanted proof of a joke.

All I can say is .

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is political. All mandates on health insurance are political, and they all serve to drive up the cost of health insurance.

By the way, none of those mandates prevent insurance companies from refusing to pay for treatment. What they do is force insurers to cover things like alcohol and drug treatment in order to defray the cost of the war on drugs. I would urge you to educate yourself, but that would take years.

I would think that would be a totall fucking awesome idea. We are treating a medical issue like a criminal one, throwing 2 million people in jail and not making our country one bit safer.

I did not present an idea, I presented a fact, want to try again?

 

[sealybobo]

There is plenty of scientific evidence that the only 100% effective method of birth control is abstinence. If you want to base your defense of Obama on science you are going to loose, want to try again, or will you simply admit you were wrong and that health insurance should not be required to cover things simply because a politician likes it?

If we actually take my comparison to it actual logical conclusion you will see that the issue is not about using contraceptives, it is about forcing health insurers, and employers, to cover things, and forcing people that do not want, or need, it to pay for it. Why should gay couples have to carry an insurance policy that covers the pill? Can you think of any reason two men who are married to each other should be forced to buy birth control, even if they don't use it?

That is what is you are arguing for, which is why my example about forcing insurers and employers to cover treatment for gay people a viable argument against your position. If you were actually capable of thinking logically you would see that. The fact that you are attempting to resort to misdirection and outright lies to defend your position proves you know how flimsy it is.

Oh, please. Your argument is weak and you know it. Health insurers should provide basic coverage. Not what they feel like covering or what they think they can get away with. If you are going to insist on making it a private system, then you have to have standards that the END USER is happy with, not third parties.

I personally think employer provided health insurance is a horrible idea, we are the ONLY country in the world that does it this way. The only reason we have Employer based HI is because most people pay in more than they really ever use.

It should be government regulated, because, frankly, I shouldn't be forced to remember my insuance agreement from five years ago for treatments that I might need today. "Oops, we don't cover cancer. That's a pre-existing condition".

Corporations should only exist in America if they both benefit the citizens and the government.

And who's kidding who that they are "over regulated". In fact, didn't Insurance Lobbyists have a seat at the table during Obamacare but Single Payer advocates did not?

And aren't the insurance companies going to benefit from the mandate? Who do you think wrote into Romney and Obamacare that everyone must buy in?

The insurance companies did. I don't know why righties hate Obamacare. The corporations love it. Not to mention we are going to save money over time, but that's another discussion.

The fact is, you can't let the oil companies and healthcare companies gouge the American citizens and not have the government step in. And if they won't stop gouging us because they are greedy, then we nationalize them. What else can we do if they won't stop gouging us? And the Federal Reserve should be Nationalized too. Why pay them interest on the debt we owe ourselves?

And things like gas and healthcare MUST be regulated, because the rich will let granny freeze or die if she doesn't pay her bills.

All the things that made it great to be an American. High wages, social security, medicare, worker rights, collective bargaining, the New Deal. Affordable Heatlhcare, etc. All of this is being attacked by the GOP and the rich. Class warfare.

They call them "entitlements". As if they are bad things.

They want to privatize and deregulate because they want all the money. They're already sucking all our GDP already. Free Market Cronie Capitalism is horrible for the middle class.

The rich don't need or want to pay for good public schools. They don't need police. They have private security. They don't need or want to pay for social security.

Its a game to them. They already have enough money. Its about power. The Koch brothers want to push their agenda. Herman Cain is their monkey. And Newt is Adelson's. Citizens United Must Go

 

[California Girl]

The very nature of this thread is nothing more than typical Republicans trying to control the conversation.

And notice it is them who continue to bring up religion? Its because without this wedge issue, they wouldn't stand a chance.

If Republicans really care about Christianity, no way they will vote for a Mormon. They say other Christians' do not have the authority from God. It died with Jesus' aposiles supposedly, according to Mormons.

But Mormons do have the authority. When God visited Joseph Smith in 1400, God had him pick apostles and they have passed on their authority, FROM GOD.

Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. Mormons think your churches are nothing more than cults.

I'd rather we leave religion out of politics. I think your all crazy. But right wingers who are supporting Romney are in for a big surprise once you have picked him as your nominee. I don't think evangelicals will vote Mormon once they learn the differences. But its your job to vet him. Hope you do better than how you vetted Palin before deciding.

As a Catholic, I'd very much like you (and your fucking President) to leave my Church out of politics. Just give us the fucking waiver that you've given to your big business buddies and allow us to practice our religion in peace. We want our First Amendment Rights. He picked this fight, not us.

 

[Moonglow]

get your fucking religion out of politics

 

[sealybobo]

The very nature of this thread is nothing more than typical Republicans trying to control the conversation.

And notice it is them who continue to bring up religion? Its because without this wedge issue, they wouldn't stand a chance.

If Republicans really care about Christianity, no way they will vote for a Mormon. They say other Christians' do not have the authority from God. It died with Jesus' aposiles supposedly, according to Mormons.

But Mormons do have the authority. When God visited Joseph Smith in 1400, God had him pick apostles and they have passed on their authority, FROM GOD.

Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. Mormons think your churches are nothing more than cults.

I'd rather we leave religion out of politics. I think your all crazy. But right wingers who are supporting Romney are in for a big surprise once you have picked him as your nominee. I don't think evangelicals will vote Mormon once they learn the differences. But its your job to vet him. Hope you do better than how you vetted Palin before deciding.

As a Catholic, I'd very much like you (and your fucking President) to leave my Church out of politics. Just give us the fucking waiver that you've given to your big business buddies and allow us to practice our religion in peace. We want our First Amendment Rights. He picked this fight, not us.

Nope. It was Reagan who very wisely made a deal with the evangelicals and brought religion into politics. Before that it was the GOP trying to make Kennedy lose because he was a Catholic. Learn your history.

I can't wait to pit your cult against Romney's.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The very nature of this thread is nothing more than typical Republicans trying to control the conversation.

And notice it is them who continue to bring up religion? Its because without this wedge issue, they wouldn't stand a chance.

If Republicans really care about Christianity, no way they will vote for a Mormon. They say other Christians' do not have the authority from God. It died with Jesus' aposiles supposedly, according to Mormons.

But Mormons do have the authority. When God visited Joseph Smith in 1400, God had him pick apostles and they have passed on their authority, FROM GOD.

Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. Mormons think your churches are nothing more than cults.

I'd rather we leave religion out of politics. I think your all crazy. But right wingers who are supporting Romney are in for a big surprise once you have picked him as your nominee. I don't think evangelicals will vote Mormon once they learn the differences. But its your job to vet him. Hope you do better than how you vetted Palin before deciding.

As a Catholic, I'd very much like you (and your fucking President) to leave my Church out of politics. Just give us the fucking waiver that you've given to your big business buddies and allow us to practice our religion in peace. We want our First Amendment Rights. He picked this fight, not us.

Nope. It was Reagan who very wisely made a deal with the evangelicals and brought religion into politics. Before that it was the GOP trying to make Kennedy lose because he was a Catholic. Learn your history.

I can't wait to pit your cult against Romney's.

Learn yours. Religion was in politics long before Reagan was even born

 

[sealybobo]

As a Catholic, I'd very much like you (and your fucking President) to leave my Church out of politics. Just give us the fucking waiver that you've given to your big business buddies and allow us to practice our religion in peace. We want our First Amendment Rights. He picked this fight, not us.

Nope. It was Reagan who very wisely made a deal with the evangelicals and brought religion into politics. Before that it was the GOP trying to make Kennedy lose because he was a Catholic. Learn your history.

I can't wait to pit your cult against Romney's.

Learn yours. Religion was in politics long before Reagan was even born

So you are saying you are unaware of how both Reagan and GW's employed a strategy to win over evangelicals through religion?

Nixon said there were times when abortion was necessary, for example, when a black and a white couple get pregnant.

So when did the GOP become the anti abortion party? Reagan! You know that. And Bush really suckered middle class people into voting along with his anti middle class agenda in large party by using religion.

Remember, we're the godless party???

 

[JoeB131]

As a Catholic, I'd very much like you (and your fucking President) to leave my Church out of politics. Just give us the fucking waiver that you've given to your big business buddies and allow us to practice our religion in peace. We want our First Amendment Rights. He picked this fight, not us.

Okay. When the Church puts it to a vote of its membership, and a clear majority says that they want to deny basic reproductive coverage to its employees, even the non-Catholic ones, Obama should totally give out that waiver...

Um, wait. You are criticizing Obama for being pro-big business. I thought he was anti-big business...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nope. It was Reagan who very wisely made a deal with the evangelicals and brought religion into politics. Before that it was the GOP trying to make Kennedy lose because he was a Catholic. Learn your history.

I can't wait to pit your cult against Romney's.

Learn yours. Religion was in politics long before Reagan was even born

So you are saying you are unaware of how both Reagan and GW's employed a strategy to win over evangelicals through religion?

Nixon said there were times when abortion was necessary, for example, when a black and a white couple get pregnant.

So when did the GOP become the anti abortion party? Reagan! You know that. And Bush really suckered middle class people into voting along with his anti middle class agenda in large party by using religion.

Remember, we're the godless party???

No, I am saying you are unaware of the fact that candidates did this long before Reagan was born. That does not make me ignorant of what happened during my lifetime, but the fact that, even after I pointed you in the right direction, you insist it stated with Reagan.

 

[Toro]

Corporations should only exist in America if they both benefit the citizens and the government.

Corporations in America

1.) Employ people
2.) Pay taxes and/or
3.) Employ people who pay taxes

So your "criteria" is silly.