Is Teaching a respected Profession in This country?

[Skull Pilot]

When we can produce students that can compete with the rest of the world again, maybe I'll respect so called educators.

We spend more money per student than most nations and we are behind. Tell me why there is always an education budget crisis even though school budgets increase every year.

I'll tell you why, education is so administratively top heavy that most of the money goes to bureaucrats that don't teach, and teachers want free health insurance and free retirement benefits.

 

[uscitizen]

The rhetoric holds no water.
Teahcers are well paid as I demonstrated. Respected. And actually have a very comfortable work schedule....with over 180 days off a year....and only 8 hour work days.
I find it selfish that they insist on being one group that is not affected by a recession and insist theoir entitlements be kept in tact.

I have 2 sisters that teach in colleges.
i KNOW they work till 11 or so a few nights a week grading papers and such.

During finals they work about 18 hours a day every day.

 

[Jarhead]

So Bodecea...

It seems you did not realize the work scherdule of a teacher was as it is.
You laughed at the hours I stated...which are fact...and you criticized the days working I stated which I proved to be fact.

So now that you realize that you were not well informed when you first started this debate....do you now see our side of the debate?

Or are you just a partisan jerk who will argue even when he sees the err of his thinking.

 

[shintao]

lol...
well done.
I blame my inability to type well and my laziness as it pertains to proofreading.

But putting the fun aside....do you see my point?

180 days off? Are you sure you want to say that?

And I laugh at only an 8 hour work day for teachers. I laugh very hard.

school year is this year:

9-06-10 to 6-20-11

That is 9 months and 14 days or approximately 284 days
Less weekends during that span....80 days
Less the summer months NOT in that span.....81 days
Less 2 weeks Christmas Vacation.....10 days (not including weekends already calculated in)
Less 1 week winter break (Presidents week)....5 days
Less 1 week spring break.......5 days
Thanksgiving.....2 days
Memorial day....1 day
Martin Luther King Day....1 day

365 minus 80 minus 81 minus 10 minus 5 minus 5 minus 2 minus 1 minus 1= 180 days

Hours 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.....8 hour day

What is the issue here?

What is it that you are missing?

Does that include teacher conferences, PTA duty's, sabbaticals to update education and certifications with the state?

 

[rdean]

I say no...it is not. And the last few days certainly has helped prove my point.

When have conservatives respected education of any kind? Oh, except "Bible Memorization".

 

[Skull Pilot]

So Bodecea...
Or are you just a partisan jerk who will argue even when he sees the err of his thinking.

OOOH OOOOOH I know that answer!!!

 

[Jarhead]

The rhetoric holds no water.
Teahcers are well paid as I demonstrated. Respected. And actually have a very comfortable work schedule....with over 180 days off a year....and only 8 hour work days.
I find it selfish that they insist on being one group that is not affected by a recession and insist theoir entitlements be kept in tact.

I have 2 sisters that teach in colleges.
i KNOW they work till 11 or so a few nights a week grading papers and such.

During finals they work about 18 hours a day every day.

If they are TA's, that is the price they pay.
If they are professors...they also only teach 3 courses a day...and get paid generous salaries.\

But we are talking about civil servant teachers here...
They work 8 hours a day 180 days a year....
Of that eight hours a day...they MUST offer extra help one hour...either 8-9 or 3-4
They have the other hour to grade papers....42 minutes mid day to grade papers....and 42 minute lunch

 

[WorldWatcher]

So Bodecea...

It seems you did not realize the work scherdule of a teacher was as it is.
You laughed at the hours I stated...which are fact...

Actually hours that you stated are "on campus hours" and not necessarily the fact of work hours. They account for neither evenings grading papers, weekends doing lesson plans, evening parent/teacher conferences, evening school events, required professional development days, etc...


I write the contracts for a school district in Virginia, our scheduled student days are 180, however the teacher contract days are 200 and that doesn't include their required professional development during the summer.



>>>>

 

[Jarhead]

180 days off? Are you sure you want to say that?

And I laugh at only an 8 hour work day for teachers. I laugh very hard.

school year is this year:

9-06-10 to 6-20-11

That is 9 months and 14 days or approximately 284 days
Less weekends during that span....80 days
Less the summer months NOT in that span.....81 days
Less 2 weeks Christmas Vacation.....10 days (not including weekends already calculated in)
Less 1 week winter break (Presidents week)....5 days
Less 1 week spring break.......5 days
Thanksgiving.....2 days
Memorial day....1 day
Martin Luther King Day....1 day

365 minus 80 minus 81 minus 10 minus 5 minus 5 minus 2 minus 1 minus 1= 180 days

Hours 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.....8 hour day

What is the issue here?

What is it that you are missing?

Does that include teacher conferences, PTA duty's, sabbaticals to update education and certifications with the state?

Open schopol night is one night a year.
Teacher conferences are from 3 to 4...15 minutes a parent....over a 2 week span....NEVER after 4
PTA duty is voluntary....just as parents arent paid to be part of PTA as well.
Sabbaticals to update education is the same as CLE for attorneys....CRE for brokers...etc..etc...something all of us have to do as it pertains to our career....and not get paid for it

Any other holes you would like to punch as opposed to saying...

"you know, I never really realized....it is not such as bad deal they have"

 

[shintao]

When we can produce students that can compete with the rest of the world again, maybe I'll respect so called educators.

So you don't respect parents. Tsk!

We spend more money per student than most nations and we are behind. Tell me why there is always an education budget crisis even though school budgets increase every year.

Who said school budgets increase every year? That is ludicrous!! LOL!

I'll tell you why, education is so administratively top heavy that most of the money goes to bureaucrats that don't teach, and teachers want free health insurance and free retirement benefits.

Well yes, teachers want what they negotiate with employers. And it is not true their health coverage or retirement are free, those are part of their negotiated wages in the collective bargaining agreement.

 

[Jarhead]

So Bodecea...

It seems you did not realize the work scherdule of a teacher was as it is.
You laughed at the hours I stated...which are fact...

Actually hours that you stated are "on campus hours" and not necessarily the fact of work hours. They account for neither evenings grading papers, weekends doing lesson plans, evening parent/teacher conferences, evening school events, required professional development days, etc...


I write the contracts for a school district in Virginia, our scheduled student days are 180, however the teacher contract days are 200 and that doesn't include their required professional development during the summer.



>>>>

Excuse me...

Apples to apples...

This was a comparison from several pages ago...comparing to other professionals.

Attorneys also take home work...as do accountants...as do many people in all sorts of business

They are paid for 2 hours a day to do no teaching work...one hour in middle of day and one hour at beginning or end of day.

If they need to take work home...so do many of us.....

I have had to take many a course to stay on top of my trade.....and yes, on my free time...but unlike teachers...i have to pay for the courses myself.....


They do not have a bad deal....AT ALL.

 

[shintao]

school year is this year:

9-06-10 to 6-20-11

That is 9 months and 14 days or approximately 284 days
Less weekends during that span....80 days
Less the summer months NOT in that span.....81 days
Less 2 weeks Christmas Vacation.....10 days (not including weekends already calculated in)
Less 1 week winter break (Presidents week)....5 days
Less 1 week spring break.......5 days
Thanksgiving.....2 days
Memorial day....1 day
Martin Luther King Day....1 day

365 minus 80 minus 81 minus 10 minus 5 minus 5 minus 2 minus 1 minus 1= 180 days

Hours 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.....8 hour day

What is the issue here?

What is it that you are missing?

Does that include teacher conferences, PTA duty's, sabbaticals to update education and certifications with the state?

Open schopol night is one night a year.
Teacher conferences are from 3 to 4...15 minutes a parent....over a 2 week span....NEVER after 4
PTA duty is voluntary....just as parents arent paid to be part of PTA as well.
Sabbaticals to update education is the same as CLE for attorneys....CRE for brokers...etc..etc...something all of us have to do as it pertains to our career....and not get paid for it

Any other holes you would like to punch as opposed to saying...

"you know, I never really realized....it is not such as bad deal they have"

I think they have a good deal, the one they negotiated and accepted. I am just saying teachers do more work in a year than most private sector workers, so just be honest about it. Saying they work 8 hour days is BS.

 

[Jarhead]

Look...

I am not saying teachers are overpaid by any means. They are paid very well and by no means are they looked down upon or not respected.

All I am saying is they have a good deal...one that is not much different than many we find in the private sector.

The rhetoric is just that....rhetoric....

Look at the facts and the numbers.....it is what it is.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Look...

I am not saying teachers are overpaid by any means. They are paid very well and by no means are they looked down upon or not respected.

All I am saying is they have a good deal...one that is not much different than many we find in the private sector.

The rhetoric is just that....rhetoric....

Look at the facts and the numbers.....it is what it is.

When teachers can't produce students that can perform they are overpaid.

American students can't compete in the world and it's not because teachers aren't paid enough.

 

[Jarhead]

Does that include teacher conferences, PTA duty's, sabbaticals to update education and certifications with the state?

Open schopol night is one night a year.
Teacher conferences are from 3 to 4...15 minutes a parent....over a 2 week span....NEVER after 4
PTA duty is voluntary....just as parents arent paid to be part of PTA as well.
Sabbaticals to update education is the same as CLE for attorneys....CRE for brokers...etc..etc...something all of us have to do as it pertains to our career....and not get paid for it

Any other holes you would like to punch as opposed to saying...

"you know, I never really realized....it is not such as bad deal they have"

I think they have a good deal, the one they negotiated and accepted. I am just saying teachers do more work in a year than most private sector workers, so just be honest about it. Saying they work 8 hour days is BS.

And saying an attorney works 10 hours a day is BS too.
I was comparing the typical amount of time spent in the workplace.

And to say a teacher does more work than say...and attorney...is BS....they both work hard...and when hard times come, an attorney may have to take a cut in his/her income....just as a teacher may have to.

But the BIG difference is....a teacher gets a heck of a lot more down time creating a much better quality of life...

 

[WorldWatcher]

So Bodecea...

It seems you did not realize the work scherdule of a teacher was as it is.
You laughed at the hours I stated...which are fact...

Actually hours that you stated are "on campus hours" and not necessarily the fact of work hours. They account for neither evenings grading papers, weekends doing lesson plans, evening parent/teacher conferences, evening school events, required professional development days, etc...


I write the contracts for a school district in Virginia, our scheduled student days are 180, however the teacher contract days are 200 and that doesn't include their required professional development during the summer.



>>>>

Excuse me...

Apples to apples...

This was a comparison from several pages ago...comparing to other professionals.

Attorneys also take home work...as do accountants...as do many people in all sorts of business

They are paid for 2 hours a day to do no teaching work...one hour in middle of day and one hour at beginning or end of day.

If they need to take work home...so do many of us.....

I have had to take many a course to stay on top of my trade.....and yes, on my free time...but unlike teachers...i have to pay for the courses myself.....


They do not have a bad deal....AT ALL.

1. Teachers are not hourly employees, they are exempt employees under the FLSA as such they are paid to do a job, not by the hour.

2. Attorney's and accountants bill their clients by the hours.

3. Teachers in our division are required to pay for their own coursework just like you.



The fact that you try to disregard the extra hours that teachers must put in as part of their job requirement is irrelevant to the fact that they actually exist and are considered a factor in the compensation.

As an Oracle Information Systems Administrator I'm also an exempt employee under FLSA, doesn't matter if I do the job on 40 hours or 65 hours in a week, I get paid the same. Just like a teacher.




I'm not here defending unions, not in one, never been in one, will likely never be in one. However your minimization of time spent on task is not an honest evaluation of time worked.



>>>>

 

[bodecea]

FYI..

In NYS it is mandatory that the school have classes 180 days a year for the school to recioeve state funding.

180 days is the benchmark.

Why do you think such is made up?

It is factual as I demonstrated.

As I said...dont spew rhetoric....look at facts.

You said 180 days OFF.

 

[bodecea]

When we can produce students that can compete with the rest of the world again, maybe I'll respect so called educators.

We spend more money per student than most nations and we are behind. Tell me why there is always an education budget crisis even though school budgets increase every year.

I'll tell you why, education is so administratively top heavy that most of the money goes to bureaucrats that don't teach, and teachers want free health insurance and free retirement benefits.

We do. However they are being downsized by companies going overseas. You don't seem aware that when the US is compared to other countries, our stats include EVERYONE, theirs do not. They do not have systems that educate EVERYONE as ours does. Perhaps you'd like our system to be more like theirs?

 

[bodecea]

So Bodecea...

It seems you did not realize the work scherdule of a teacher was as it is.
You laughed at the hours I stated...which are fact...and you criticized the days working I stated which I proved to be fact.

So now that you realize that you were not well informed when you first started this debate....do you now see our side of the debate?

Or are you just a partisan jerk who will argue even when he sees the err of his thinking.

I laugh at what you wrote because you are wrong.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I was comparing the typical amount of time spent in the workplace.

No you weren't, you were establishing work hours to act as a basis for compensation comparison. Work hours and time spent in the workplace are not the same for many exempt type positions.


>>>>