ISIS inside Baghdad, will Obama ramp it up?

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Fuck you. I have firmly stated on MANY occasions on this forum what we should be/should have done.

Bombing Toyotas & vacant buildings was not part of my idea.

I gave my support to Obama from day one when he announced his decision. If he wants to keep that support he needs to make good on his plan. You know, decimate & destroy ISIS. FOURTEEN bombs a day is a god damn joke.

Actually the strategy is degrade and destroy. It is how we fight wars today, especially Iraq. Bush 41 and 43 both used the strategy until 43 veered off the page and decided to create an occupation force. Degrade comes before destroy. Destroying will take ground troops. At the present time the composition and abilities of those ground troops are unknown and various groups are being trained and equipped. The first part of the strategy, the degrade part is going slow because an abundance of caution to prevent losses and collateral damage are being taken. It's a good thing unless you prefer dead and beheaded airmen and civilian casualties. Whatever ground forces are used will be grateful for the degradation part of the strategy.

It's a good strategy that has certainly worked many times. I don't think there's any question that ground troops are going into Iraq. The question is when, how many, and their origin. It's been suggested that the greatest need in the Iraqi army is leadership. That can be provided without a massive number of troops.

there was too much corruption in their mil leadership ranks. They collected pay for ghost soldiers and made the real soldiers pay for uniforms/supplies that should have been given to them.

The military has always been corrupt in Iraq. Under Saddam, the military fought or ended up in Abu Ghraib or worse.

When we rebuilt the Iraqi military we made the erroneous assumption that they would fight for the nation if threaten. Nationalism, pride and patriotism demand it. The problem was that none of those attributes were present in the military. Being a solder in Iraq meant having a steady job, certainly not risking your life for the country.

Iraq has always been held together by force. Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds often refuse to work together. Baghdad and Basra are modern secular cities and have little in common with most of Iraq which consist of very small towns and villages filled with goat and sheep herders, peasant farmers, and Bedouins. Languages vary as you go through the country. About half the people speak Arabic and reminder speak Kurdish or Turkmen. Politically the country is extremely divided with over 25 political parities in Parliament. The best way to describe Iraq is a nation divided, very divided.

"Nationalism, pride and patriotism demand it. The problem was that none of those attributes were present in the military."


Flopper, this was not my experience with most Iraqis. Are you familiar with CPATT...the organization that trained police, border patrol, etc.? I worked very closely with them.

The folks in charge of training them used to say it would be hard to rewire the thinking of a lot of current

Are the Iraqis ever going to do anything?

You really are an idiot on this topic. We'll call ya when it's all over and update ya. (roll eyes)

Yes, because the Iraqi Army has put up such a great fight against ISIS.

What part of "command structure missing" you not grasp?? That's missing because your hero, the great idiotic Obama pulled out.

Flopper has been the only rational left poster in this thread. Lets not lump him in with all the other idiots

 

[Ibentoken]

What's your definition of 'Defending America?' Do you consider endless Intervention/War defending America?

Nope.

 

[EconChick]

heres what your "ramping it up" has accomplished OP : Coalition air strikes against Isis aid Bashar al-Assad Syrian rebels claim World news The Guardian

What does that have to do with bombing ISIS in Iraq? This thread is about IRAQ. This thread is not about how Obama is propping up one enemy at the expense of another in SYRIA.

LOL, Grampa, dotcommie is SO stupid, she doesn't even know the difference between Baghdad and Syria.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

What's your definition of 'Defending America?' Do you consider endless Intervention/War defending America?

Nope.

According to the Paulbots if you spit on an enemy you are betraying American values

 

[paulitician]

It's not getting much play in the Government/Corporate Media, but how much is this round the clock bombing costing American Taxpayers? Those planes, drones, and bombs sure ain't cheap. It's incredibly costly to bomb around the clock. So, how many $Billions is this round of Intervention/War gonna cost us? Something the self-avowed 'Small Government Conservatives' on this Board should contemplate.

The last report I saw stated we were averaging 14 bombings per day.

Hardly the bank breaker you keep making it out to be.

Perhaps if you got more info from places other than tinfoilhatsrus you might be better informed?

Well, some in the Military are boasting about 'round the clock' bombing. In fact, i even saw the President on TV boasting about it too. But regardless, operating all the planes, helicopters, drones, and the bombs, is incredibly costly. We'll probably never be given the official numbers, but i can assure you the numbers are staggering. It's something a self-avowed 'Small Government Conservative' should be very concerned with.

The last report I saw was an actual pentagon briefing. Not some hyperbole spouted off by some super secret confidential source reported on a paranoiaisus website.

Yeah, cuz the Pentagon always tells ya the truth. Come on man!

You fucking quoted the president and you're gonna question my source?

GTFOH

What will the costs be? How many $Billions in Tax Dollars are gonna be flushed on this Intervention/War? What benefit will it be to Average Americans? The answer is, none whatsoever. They'll just be forced to pay for yet another absurd Globalist Elite scam.

 

[EconChick]

Actually the strategy is degrade and destroy. It is how we fight wars today, especially Iraq. Bush 41 and 43 both used the strategy until 43 veered off the page and decided to create an occupation force. Degrade comes before destroy. Destroying will take ground troops. At the present time the composition and abilities of those ground troops are unknown and various groups are being trained and equipped. The first part of the strategy, the degrade part is going slow because an abundance of caution to prevent losses and collateral damage are being taken. It's a good thing unless you prefer dead and beheaded airmen and civilian casualties. Whatever ground forces are used will be grateful for the degradation part of the strategy.

It's a good strategy that has certainly worked many times. I don't think there's any question that ground troops are going into Iraq. The question is when, how many, and their origin. It's been suggested that the greatest need in the Iraqi army is leadership. That can be provided without a massive number of troops.

there was too much corruption in their mil leadership ranks. They collected pay for ghost soldiers and made the real soldiers pay for uniforms/supplies that should have been given to them.

The military has always been corrupt in Iraq. Under Saddam, the military fought or ended up in Abu Ghraib or worse.

When we rebuilt the Iraqi military we made the erroneous assumption that they would fight for the nation if threaten. Nationalism, pride and patriotism demand it. The problem was that none of those attributes were present in the military. Being a solder in Iraq meant having a steady job, certainly not risking your life for the country.

Iraq has always been held together by force. Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds often refuse to work together. Baghdad and Basra are modern secular cities and have little in common with most of Iraq which consist of very small towns and villages filled with goat and sheep herders, peasant farmers, and Bedouins. Languages vary as you go through the country. About half the people speak Arabic and reminder speak Kurdish or Turkmen. Politically the country is extremely divided with over 25 political parities in Parliament. The best way to describe Iraq is a nation divided, very divided.

"Nationalism, pride and patriotism demand it. The problem was that none of those attributes were present in the military."


Flopper, this was not my experience with most Iraqis. Are you familiar with CPATT...the organization that trained police, border patrol, etc.? I worked very closely with them.

The folks in charge of training them used to say it would be hard to rewire the thinking of a lot of current

Are the Iraqis ever going to do anything?

You really are an idiot on this topic. We'll call ya when it's all over and update ya. (roll eyes)

Yes, because the Iraqi Army has put up such a great fight against ISIS.

What part of "command structure missing" you not grasp?? That's missing because your hero, the great idiotic Obama pulled out.

Flopper has been the only rational left poster in this thread. Lets not lump him in with all the other idiots

That reply was for Ace, sweetie. I was having an intellectual exchange with Flopper.

 

[paulitician]

What's your definition of 'Defending America?' Do you consider endless Intervention/War defending America?

Nope.

According to the Paulbots if you spit on an enemy you are betraying American values

Let's get the hell out of their lands, and we'll likely have less enemies. To hell with the Sunnis, Shiites, Alawites, or whatever. We don't belong there. Let them sort out their problems.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The last report I saw stated we were averaging 14 bombings per day.

Hardly the bank breaker you keep making it out to be.

Perhaps if you got more info from places other than tinfoilhatsrus you might be better informed?

Well, some in the Military are boasting about 'round the clock' bombing. In fact, i even saw the President on TV boasting about it too. But regardless, operating all the planes, helicopters, drones, and the bombs, is incredibly costly. We'll probably never be given the official numbers, but i can assure you the numbers are staggering. It's something a self-avowed 'Small Government Conservative' should be very concerned with.

The last report I saw was an actual pentagon briefing. Not some hyperbole spouted off by some super secret confidential source reported on a paranoiaisus website.

Yeah, cuz the Pentagon always tells ya the truth. Come on man!

You fucking quoted the president and you're gonna question my source?

GTFOH

What will the costs be? How many $Billions in Tax Dollars are gonna be flushed on this Intervention/War? What benefit will it be to Average Americans? The answer is, none whatsoever. They'll just be forced to pay for yet another absurd Globalist Elite scam.

That is your OPINION. Nothing more. You are certainly entitled to it but you are not entitled to force it upon me.

 

[EconChick]

a rw hacktard whose posts usually consist of two sentences, at most, in my head lol. You HAVE taken the Heritage Action/Fox brown acid

whatever happened to the Repub battle cry "Stop spending!!!"?

You're the poster who keeps mentioning me in your posts. Yeah, I'm in your head. Carry on.

because you're posting AS IF vietraq began on January 20, 2009

Obama became Commander in Chief. He is now responsible on Jan 20, 2009. What is so difficult for you to understand?

Responsible for what? Sending more Americans to die in Iraq for a people that won't defend themselves?

What, exactly, is wrong with you? I'm genuinely curious...

STFU, you were never there, I was. That's why I know everything out of your mouth is bullshit on this topic.


Won't defend themselves??? I'll match my first hand experiences with them defending themselves (along with defending me) with your NON EXPERIENCE in Iraq any minute, any day, any hour.

 

[paulitician]

Well, some in the Military are boasting about 'round the clock' bombing. In fact, i even saw the President on TV boasting about it too. But regardless, operating all the planes, helicopters, drones, and the bombs, is incredibly costly. We'll probably never be given the official numbers, but i can assure you the numbers are staggering. It's something a self-avowed 'Small Government Conservative' should be very concerned with.

The last report I saw was an actual pentagon briefing. Not some hyperbole spouted off by some super secret confidential source reported on a paranoiaisus website.

Yeah, cuz the Pentagon always tells ya the truth. Come on man!

You fucking quoted the president and you're gonna question my source?

GTFOH

What will the costs be? How many $Billions in Tax Dollars are gonna be flushed on this Intervention/War? What benefit will it be to Average Americans? The answer is, none whatsoever. They'll just be forced to pay for yet another absurd Globalist Elite scam.

That is your OPINION. Nothing more. You are certainly entitled to it but you are not entitled to force it upon me.

Why not? You guys have been forcing endless Intervention/War on us for many many years. Maybe it's time for us to force some things on you?

 

[EconChick]

Obama or the west won't solve fight ISIL/ISIS with airstrikes. Supreme diplomacy or boots on the ground, either or. Obama reminds me of LBJ wimping out in Vietnam. Not making the ultimate commitment. Just do it. Man up.

And what happened that was so bad that we lost in Vietnam? We were told that stopping NVN was vital to our interests.

We didn't stop them. Why are we still here?

The US didn't 'wimp out in Vietnam', but it did have some really poor military planners who under-estimated the Viet Cong and expended vast resources on fighting pointlessly in the middle of the jungle - the US could have won in South Vietnam if it ignored the countryside and focused on protecting the urban centers and developing a capitalist (and democratic) alternative to North Vietnam.

Iraq though is even more complex, as you have various religious groups that hate each other and fought a civil war after the US deposed Saddam. But Shiites and Sunnis have been at each others throats for a long time in the Middle East, and Christians and Kurds are usually the victims when they can't find the 'wrong type of Muslim' to kill.

ISIS/ISIL is just the next group in a long line of religious extremist groups (with religious-nationalist ambitions) to carry out bloodshed. I don't trust the Iraqi army to win against them, best you can hope for (at the moment) is a divided Iraq with Baghdad, Southern Iraq, and most of the Kurdish territories not under ISIS/ISIL control.

Good post except I was in Iraq from early days till O abandoned it...we had it stabilized. People keep repeating Democrat lies/ talking points.

 

[Dot Com]

It's not getting much play in the Government/Corporate Media, but how much is this round the clock bombing costing American Taxpayers? Those planes, drones, and bombs sure ain't cheap. It's incredibly costly to bomb around the clock. So, how many $Billions is this round of Intervention/War gonna cost us? Something the self-avowed 'Small Government Conservatives' on this Board should contemplate.

The last report I saw stated we were averaging 14 bombings per day.

Hardly the bank breaker you keep making it out to be.

Perhaps if you got more info from places other than tinfoilhatsrus you might be better informed?

Well, some in the Military are boasting about 'round the clock' bombing. In fact, i even saw the President on TV boasting about it too. But regardless, operating all the planes, helicopters, drones, and the bombs, is incredibly costly. We'll probably never be given the official numbers, but i can assure you the numbers are staggering. It's something a self-avowed 'Small Government Conservative' should be very concerned with.

wonder if OP & his "yes man"- Ibentoken are willing to have their taxes raised to pay for yet another war for oil.

 

[EconChick]

Hey, did ISIS take Baghdad and take over the World yet? Ah, probably not. If the Nazis couldn't do it, i seriously doubt a few Terrorist nutters can.

They could do the former, as Turkey has a border that Islamists can cross over fairly easily into Iraq. Turkey thinks that letting ISIS run free over Iraq will rid itself of the Kurds. Unfortunately when ISIS turns on its backers in Turkey, Saudi, UAE, and Qatar, they will demand the US give them money, boots on the ground, and weapons. So we are forced into war whether we intervene in Iraq or not.

ISIS won't be taking over the world. If the Nazis and Soviets couldn't do it, i'm pretty sure a few thousand religious kooks can't either. And we'll see about Baghdad. Personally, I don't believe they have the numbers or weapons capabilities to pull it off. The Iraq Military has been given $Billions in Tax Dollars. It's now one of the most advanced and well-equipped Militaries on earth. ISIS should be no match for them. It should be a route.

I was talking about the part in your post that I bolded. I doubt that the Iraqi army will hold itself together. Superior military numbers and equipment aren't often as important as the will to fight. Most of those defending Baghdad are doing it for money and would flee a strong assault by ISIS.

I don't think ISIS can hit em with a very strong assault. They just don't have the capability. The Iraq Military should be able to handle em.

Hey P....we were the glue that held them together and the glue has been removed.

My debate is not with you right now though....Libertarians ask honest questions....my problem right now is with OUTRIGHT LIARS in Dem Party ...like ones on this thread.

 

[Dot Com]

It's not getting much play in the Government/Corporate Media, but how much is this round the clock bombing costing American Taxpayers? Those planes, drones, and bombs sure ain't cheap. It's incredibly costly to bomb around the clock. So, how many $Billions is this round of Intervention/War gonna cost us? Something the self-avowed 'Small Government Conservatives' on this Board should contemplate.

The last report I saw stated we were averaging 14 bombings per day.

Hardly the bank breaker you keep making it out to be.

Perhaps if you got more info from places other than tinfoilhatsrus you might be better informed?

Well, some in the Military are boasting about 'round the clock' bombing. In fact, i even saw the President on TV boasting about it too. But regardless, operating all the planes, helicopters, drones, and the bombs, is incredibly costly. We'll probably never be given the official numbers, but i can assure you the numbers are staggering. It's something a self-avowed 'Small Government Conservative' should be very concerned with.

The last report I saw was an actual pentagon briefing. Not some hyperbole spouted off by some super secret confidential source reported on a paranoiaisus website.

Yeah, cuz the Pentagon always tells ya the truth. Come on man!

Repubs are in bed w/ defense contractors. Have been & will continue to be. Corporate welfare/cronyism

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The last report I saw was an actual pentagon briefing. Not some hyperbole spouted off by some super secret confidential source reported on a paranoiaisus website.

Yeah, cuz the Pentagon always tells ya the truth. Come on man!

You fucking quoted the president and you're gonna question my source?

GTFOH

What will the costs be? How many $Billions in Tax Dollars are gonna be flushed on this Intervention/War? What benefit will it be to Average Americans? The answer is, none whatsoever. They'll just be forced to pay for yet another absurd Globalist Elite scam.

That is your OPINION. Nothing more. You are certainly entitled to it but you are not entitled to force it upon me.

Why not? You guys have been forcing endless Intervention/War on us for many many years. Maybe it's time for us to force some things on you?

Dude your problem is not with me. The sooner you realize that the better. I don't have a hotline to the white house or the defense industry.
I'm not going to change your mind anymore than you are going to change mine.

This thread is about the tactics in use currently in Iraq. If you want to have a discussion about the morality of war please feel free to create a thread based on that premise.

 

[Ibentoken]

It's not getting much play in the Government/Corporate Media, but how much is this round the clock bombing costing American Taxpayers? Those planes, drones, and bombs sure ain't cheap. It's incredibly costly to bomb around the clock. So, how many $Billions is this round of Intervention/War gonna cost us? Something the self-avowed 'Small Government Conservatives' on this Board should contemplate.

The last report I saw stated we were averaging 14 bombings per day.

Hardly the bank breaker you keep making it out to be.

Perhaps if you got more info from places other than tinfoilhatsrus you might be better informed?

Well, some in the Military are boasting about 'round the clock' bombing. In fact, i even saw the President on TV boasting about it too. But regardless, operating all the planes, helicopters, drones, and the bombs, is incredibly costly. We'll probably never be given the official numbers, but i can assure you the numbers are staggering. It's something a self-avowed 'Small Government Conservative' should be very concerned with.

wonder if OP & his "yes man"- Ibentoken are willing to have their taxes raised to pay for yet another war for oil.

I bet you wonder about a lot of things.

 

[paulitician]

It's not getting much play in the Government/Corporate Media, but how much is this round the clock bombing costing American Taxpayers? Those planes, drones, and bombs sure ain't cheap. It's incredibly costly to bomb around the clock. So, how many $Billions is this round of Intervention/War gonna cost us? Something the self-avowed 'Small Government Conservatives' on this Board should contemplate.

The last report I saw stated we were averaging 14 bombings per day.

Hardly the bank breaker you keep making it out to be.

Perhaps if you got more info from places other than tinfoilhatsrus you might be better informed?

Well, some in the Military are boasting about 'round the clock' bombing. In fact, i even saw the President on TV boasting about it too. But regardless, operating all the planes, helicopters, drones, and the bombs, is incredibly costly. We'll probably never be given the official numbers, but i can assure you the numbers are staggering. It's something a self-avowed 'Small Government Conservative' should be very concerned with.

wonder if OP & his "yes man"- Ibentoken are willing to have their taxes raised to pay for yet another war for oil.

I've found that many who call themselves 'Small Government Conservatives', are really Big Government Neocons/Progressives. I see almost no evidence that they're for Small Government. I suspect the OP is one of em.

 

[EconChick]

Actually the strategy is degrade and destroy. It is how we fight wars today, especially Iraq. Bush 41 and 43 both used the strategy until 43 veered off the page and decided to create an occupation force. Degrade comes before destroy. Destroying will take ground troops. At the present time the composition and abilities of those ground troops are unknown and various groups are being trained and equipped. The first part of the strategy, the degrade part is going slow because an abundance of caution to prevent losses and collateral damage are being taken. It's a good thing unless you prefer dead and beheaded airmen and civilian casualties. Whatever ground forces are used will be grateful for the degradation part of the strategy.

It's a good strategy that has certainly worked many times. I don't think there's any question that ground troops are going into Iraq. The question is when, how many, and their origin. It's been suggested that the greatest need in the Iraqi army is leadership. That can be provided without a massive number of troops.

there was too much corruption in their mil leadership ranks. They collected pay for ghost soldiers and made the real soldiers pay for uniforms/supplies that should have been given to them.

The military has always been corrupt in Iraq. Under Saddam, the military fought or ended up in Abu Ghraib or worse.

When we rebuilt the Iraqi military we made the erroneous assumption that they would fight for the nation if threaten. Nationalism, pride and patriotism demand it. The problem was that none of those attributes were present in the military. Being a solder in Iraq meant having a steady job, certainly not risking your life for the country.

Iraq has always been held together by force. Sunnis,Shiites, Kurds often refuse to work together. Baghdad and Basra are modern secular cities and have little in common with most of Iraq which consist of very small towns and villages filled with goat and sheep herders, peasant farmers, and Bedouins. Iraq is more of a region than a nation.

What the hell does that have to do with today?

Kiss my freaking ass. What part of ISIS invaded Iraq and has continued to gain ground all this year while your dearest fuck face leader played golf?

The division in Iraq has everything to do with their inability to protect the nation. Imagine a US army where Catholics would not eat at the same table with Protestants, military promotions based on political affiliation, and troops that refuse to defend those of other faiths.

Now this is where your statements fly in the face of my direct experience, Flopper. Your sentiment has merit but not factual

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's not getting much play in the Government/Corporate Media, but how much is this round the clock bombing costing American Taxpayers? Those planes, drones, and bombs sure ain't cheap. It's incredibly costly to bomb around the clock. So, how many $Billions is this round of Intervention/War gonna cost us? Something the self-avowed 'Small Government Conservatives' on this Board should contemplate.

The last report I saw stated we were averaging 14 bombings per day.

Hardly the bank breaker you keep making it out to be.

Perhaps if you got more info from places other than tinfoilhatsrus you might be better informed?

Well, some in the Military are boasting about 'round the clock' bombing. In fact, i even saw the President on TV boasting about it too. But regardless, operating all the planes, helicopters, drones, and the bombs, is incredibly costly. We'll probably never be given the official numbers, but i can assure you the numbers are staggering. It's something a self-avowed 'Small Government Conservative' should be very concerned with.

The last report I saw was an actual pentagon briefing. Not some hyperbole spouted off by some super secret confidential source reported on a paranoiaisus website.

Yeah, cuz the Pentagon always tells ya the truth. Come on man!

Repubs are in bed w/ defense contractors. Have been & will continue to be. Corporate welfare/cronyism

I think your hubby must have hidden you daily dose of Bon Bons cause you're gettin quite looney in this thread.

 

[Ibentoken]

It's not getting much play in the Government/Corporate Media, but how much is this round the clock bombing costing American Taxpayers? Those planes, drones, and bombs sure ain't cheap. It's incredibly costly to bomb around the clock. So, how many $Billions is this round of Intervention/War gonna cost us? Something the self-avowed 'Small Government Conservatives' on this Board should contemplate.

The last report I saw stated we were averaging 14 bombings per day.

Hardly the bank breaker you keep making it out to be.

Perhaps if you got more info from places other than tinfoilhatsrus you might be better informed?

Well, some in the Military are boasting about 'round the clock' bombing. In fact, i even saw the President on TV boasting about it too. But regardless, operating all the planes, helicopters, drones, and the bombs, is incredibly costly. We'll probably never be given the official numbers, but i can assure you the numbers are staggering. It's something a self-avowed 'Small Government Conservative' should be very concerned with.

The last report I saw was an actual pentagon briefing. Not some hyperbole spouted off by some super secret confidential source reported on a paranoiaisus website.

Yeah, cuz the Pentagon always tells ya the truth. Come on man!

Repubs are in bed w/ defense contractors. Have been & will continue to be. Corporate welfare/cronyism

Repubs aren't bombing ISIS. Obama is. Time for a nap.