Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15

[Shusha]

I'm still awaiting a link supporting your claim that indeed he was planting a bomb.

What was wrong with the one I already posted?

Why won't you condemn Israeli heavy handedness and murder?

Tell you what, we make a pact... When you start condemning the use of tanks against civilians then I will start condemning Palestinian violence.

Civilians? Farmers? What?! Do melons grow better when the seeds are planted under barbed wire? Is THAT why the "farmer" was digging under the fence? Give me a break. Someone planting an IED is a combatant -- not a civilian. And no, I will not be condemning the use of live fire against combatants. (And reasonable people will not do so either. But somehow there always seems to be special rules for Israel).

Look, here's what we know:

• Hamas has explicitly stated its INTENT to breach the fence and claim the territory under Arab rule
• Hamas has spent 15 million dollars on what will amount to nothing more than a publicity stunt (money far better spent elsewhere)
• Hamas has threatened harm to anyone (such as bus drivers) who does not facilitate the riots
• There are tens of thousands of people -- both civilians and militants -- rioting along a sensitive border with Israel. the potential for an explosive development is extremely high with potentially a great loss of life
• 16 of the 19 killed in the first days have been identified as militants belonging to various militant, extremist and terrorist groups (and I certain the other 3 will also be so identified in a few months when the "Israel is killing civilians trope is once again well entrenched in the minds of the useful idiots around the world)
• Gazans are bringing guns, grenades, IEDs, firebombs and slings to the "peaceful protest"
• Hamas is PAYING people to make attacks on Israel

• Israel has permitted the "peaceful protest" (riots) to occur
• Israel widely spread information assuring its intent for peace, recommended cautions and instructions to maintain distance from the fence through social media, announcements and flyers dropped on the crowd
• Israel is using a variety of crowd dispersal methods including tear gas and water cannons ONLY for those approaching the fence in order to maintain the integrity of the border for the security of Israelis less than a mile from the fence
• Israel has used live fire ONLY as a last resort when suspicious activity was apparent and non-lethal methods were ineffective
• The dead are overwhelmingly militants (combatants) and not civilians
• The dead are overwhelmingly known to have been committing acts of violence at the time of their demise
• Only non-lethal force is being used against civilians
• There have been two instances where civilians reached the fence. A seven year old girl -- sent by her parents -- began to climb the fence. She was not shot. Instead, an Israeli soldier, at risk of his own life, crossed to the Gaza side of the fence and returned the girl to her parents, unharmed. A teenager approached the fence and picked up a set of bolt cutters. He snipped a hole in the fence and stepped through to the other side. He was not shot. He paused there a moment and returned to Gaza, unharmed

What this all tells me is that we have, on the one side, militant groups who are using the cover of the "peaceful protest" to send combatants to use lethal force against Israel with the stated intent of tipping the balance of the riot into a breach of the fence to attack Israel's sovereignty and, in all likelihood, harm Israelis. While on the other side we have a well-disciplined military force facing an extremely volatile situation involving both civilians and militants and responding with appropriate and nuanced force levels based on actions of individuals on a case-by-case basis.

I assure you, should I see Israel acting inappropriately, I will condemn it. I haven't seen it yet. But I can not possibly imagine Israel handling this extremely difficult security situation any better than they are. If you have information that I do not, please share.

And in the meantime, are you going to condemn the violence and the incitement to violence committed against Israel? I suspect you will not. I suspect you, like others here, feel that Arabs have the right to "resist" while Jews do not have the right to defend themselves. I suspect that you hold double standards with respect to use of force -- one set of rules for Israel and one for others. You are just more careful than others to reveal it.

 

[Shusha]

Get their damn navy out of Gazan territorial waters so they can fish further out without getting shot at and rammed.

Seriously? You think fishing is the problem? You think that if Gazans can just fish a little further out, then they will no longer commit violence against Israel?

Can't even fish without being shot at.

Gaza has ~4000 fishermen. Only 70 or so are arrested (let alone shot at) in a given year. They are neither arrested nor shot at for fishing. They are arrested when they are importing weapons into Gaza. Stop importing weapons and fish. Its not rocket science.

 

[Billo_Really]

Yeah because the Arabs were fine with Israel pre 1967.

That doesn't give Israel the right to violate international law.

 

[Billo_Really]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Billo_Really, et al,

I've found that a vast majority of people that make comments like this have a very poor understanding of the international laws that govern Israel's role in this.

Based on the past criminal behaviors of the Government representing the Gaza Strip [ie the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)] do not understand what is being done.

There are several reasons that Israel might intercept vessels that they have reasonable grounds to believe are carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture (See Section V - Paragraph 67, San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994). The two principle reasons are (but not limited to):

• The suspect vessel is making an effective contribution to the Arab Palestinians efforts in an armed conflict between governmental forces of Israel → and → the Hostile Arab Palestinian forces and non-governmental armed groups recognized by the Regional Community.

• To establish such a blockade as to combat crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems , money laundering and smuggling potentially deadly materials.​

Get their damn navy out of Gazan territorial waters so they can fish further out without getting shot at and rammed.

Basically, drive all the Israeli's back past the Green Line. And kick them out of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

(COMMENT)

The block was established and is manged IAW Section II of the International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea.

Israel, itself, has two reasons for pursuing the blockade:

• To fully cooperate in the fight against Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters, IAW obligations under international law.

• To deny safe transport of contraband and prevent the material support that facilitates the preparation or perpetration of hostile acts or provides safe havens.​

IMO ⇒ Territorial Waters is not such a sufficient reason to deny a naval blockade.

Most Respectfully,
R

I have a very good understanding of international law and you are full of shit! There is no legal justification for Israel to be in Gazan territorial waters. They are there to make life unbearable for Palestinians. They shoot at their fishermen, they shoot at their farmers and as we have seen in the videos this past two weeks, they shoot at unarmed protesters.

My opinion is, anyone even attempting to defend such actions, is not only complicit in a crime, but is a piece of shit human.

 

[Billo_Really]

Fuck YOU ! Israel has the Right to kill ANYBODY who throws Rocks, tried to kill with Military Sling Shots, or other weapons.

States don't have rights, people do.

And no, Israel does not have the right to murder innocent Palestinians.

According to your argument, it would be okay to kill David after he faced Goliath, because he threw a rock!

 

[Billo_Really]

Seriously? You think fishing is the problem? You think that if Gazans can just fish a little further out, then they will no longer commit violence against Israel?

Just take a second to think about this...

"Who the hell shoots at people fishing?"

"Who the hell shoots at people farming?"
​

You've got to be one sick puppy to be doing that.

BTW, the Palestinians have every legal right in the world to attack Israel while this illegal and immoral occupation continues.

 

[Shusha]

They shoot at their fishermen, they shoot at their farmers and as we have seen in the videos this past two weeks, they shoot at unarmed protesters.

My opinion is, anyone even attempting to defend such actions, is not only complicit in a crime, but is a piece of shit human.

To be clear -- NO ONE here is arguing that Israel is legally or morally permitted to shoot at unarmed civilians. NO ONE here is defending such actions. On the contrary, the argument by both Israel and the pro-Israel side here is that it is legally and morally permissible to use lethal force on combatants attempting to harm Israel's sovereignty or Israel's civilians.

 

[Shusha]

Seriously? You think fishing is the problem? You think that if Gazans can just fish a little further out, then they will no longer commit violence against Israel?

Just take a second to think about this...

"Who the hell shoots at people fishing?"

"Who the hell shoots at people farming?"
​

You've got to be one sick puppy to be doing that.

BTW, the Palestinians have every legal right in the world to attack Israel while this illegal and immoral occupation continues.

You've just answered the question. Its not about fishing. Its about the "occupation". Do you seriously think that if Israel just let the fisherman fish a little further out that either you or Hamas would consider the "occupation" over?

 

[Shusha]

BTW, the Palestinians have every legal right in the world to attack Israel while this illegal and immoral occupation continues.

Does Israel have a legal right to defend themselves from these attacks? Yes or no?

 

[Billo_Really]

Can't even fish without being shot at.

And they won't even let ships carrying humanitarian aid into Gaza. I think they're sending the wrong kind of ships. We should put all the supplies on a ship like this and send it to Gaza.

 

[Billo_Really]

Terrorists have a tough life.........wahh.

Not if you're Israeli terrorists.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Can't even fish without being shot at.

And they won't even let ships carrying humanitarian aid into Gaza. I think they're sending the wrong kind of ships. We should put all the supplies on a ship like this and send it to Gaza.

And they won't even let ships carrying humanitarian aid into Gaza.

It's true, Hamas sucks.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Terrorists have a tough life.........wahh.

Not if you're Israeli terrorists.

We're talking about Arab terrorists in Gaza now, not Arab terrorists in Israel.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Billo_Really, et al,

I've found that a vast majority of people that make comments like this have a very poor understanding of the international laws that govern Israel's role in this.

Based on the past criminal behaviors of the Government representing the Gaza Strip [ie the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS)] do not understand what is being done.

There are several reasons that Israel might intercept vessels that they have reasonable grounds to believe are carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture (See Section V - Paragraph 67, San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994). The two principle reasons are (but not limited to):

• The suspect vessel is making an effective contribution to the Arab Palestinians efforts in an armed conflict between governmental forces of Israel → and → the Hostile Arab Palestinian forces and non-governmental armed groups recognized by the Regional Community.

• To establish such a blockade as to combat crimes that might be connected with terrorism, including drug trafficking in all its aspects, illicit arms trade, in particular of small arms and light weapons, including man-portable air defence systems , money laundering and smuggling potentially deadly materials.​

Get their damn navy out of Gazan territorial waters so they can fish further out without getting shot at and rammed.

Basically, drive all the Israeli's back past the Green Line. And kick them out of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

(COMMENT)

The block was established and is manged IAW Section II of the International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea.

Israel, itself, has two reasons for pursuing the blockade:

• To fully cooperate in the fight against Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters, IAW obligations under international law.

• To deny safe transport of contraband and prevent the material support that facilitates the preparation or perpetration of hostile acts or provides safe havens.​

IMO ⇒ Territorial Waters is not such a sufficient reason to deny a naval blockade.

Most Respectfully,
R

I have a very good understanding of international law and you are full of shit! There is no legal justification for Israel to be in Gazan territorial waters. They are there to make life unbearable for Palestinians. They shoot at their fishermen, they shoot at their farmers and as we have seen in the videos this past two weeks, they shoot at unarmed protesters.

My opinion is, anyone even attempting to defend such actions, is not only complicit in a crime, but is a piece of shit human.

They did not shoot live ammo at protesters they shot men using weapons of war to attack Israeli soldiers. Rubber bullets were used on the regular protestors as is legal EVERY where to control large crowds.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Nice people those Israeli Jews.

Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15

This is outrageous!!
Why did they only shoot 15?
That is pathetic.
1500 would be a good start.

 

[Billo_Really]

Gaza has ~4000 fishermen. Only 70 or so are arrested (let alone shot at) in a given year. They are neither arrested nor shot at for fishing. They are arrested when they are importing weapons into Gaza. Stop importing weapons and fish. Its not rocket science.

Why can't they have weapons? Are you saying Gazans have no right to defend themselves. Because you need weapons to do that.

I'll tell you what is really funny though, that is watching all these 2nd amendment fuckers in this country agree with you. Just try and tell an American he doesn't have a right to have a weapon and see what happens next.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Gaza has ~4000 fishermen. Only 70 or so are arrested (let alone shot at) in a given year. They are neither arrested nor shot at for fishing. They are arrested when they are importing weapons into Gaza. Stop importing weapons and fish. Its not rocket science.

Why can't they have weapons? Are you saying Gazans have no right to defend themselves. Because you need weapons to do that.

I'll tell you what is really funny though, that is watching all these 2nd amendment fuckers in this country agree with you. Just try and tell an American he doesn't have a right to have a weapon and see what happens next.

Why can't they have weapons?

Because they suck.

 

[Billo_Really]

To be clear -- NO ONE here is arguing that Israel is legally or morally permitted to shoot at unarmed civilians. NO ONE here is defending such actions. On the contrary, the argument by both Israel and the pro-Israel side here is that it is legally and morally permissible to use lethal force on combatants attempting to harm Israel's sovereignty or Israel's civilians.

An occupying force is not sovereign to the territory it occupy's.

 

[USAF 2023]

Nice people those Israeli Jews.

Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15

This is outrageous!!
Why did they only shoot 15?
That is pathetic.
1500 would be a good start.

Excellent Post ! They initiate Violence and they suffer the consequences

 

[Billo_Really]

You've just answered the question. Its not about fishing. Its about the "occupation". Do you seriously think that if Israel just let the fisherman fish a little further out that either you or Hamas would consider the "occupation" over?

It's none of Israel's business where Gazans fish.