Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15

[Billo_Really]

do.

Count on the Palestinians to fuck themselves up over such a stupid issue.

The Pals are not fucking themselves. It's the fascists next door who keep demanding to be recognized.

 

[Kondor3]

Gazans need to relocate someplace else... wherever Mad Dog Palestinians are welcome.

 

[teddyearp]

The Palestinians are Semites as well. What does that make you?

OK, if we go in that vein, look at it this way. If you are against the Israelite's having their restored Nation of Israel (being Semites as well) what does that make you?

 

[Shusha]

But how does Gaza get THERE from here? At the moment - the people are under a form of collective punishment for an election

Well no. Gaza is under a blockade (not collective punishment - a blockade) because Gaza imports weapons which are intended and in point of fact used as a means of violence against Israel. The intent of the blockade is to prevent belligerent violent actions against Israel.

The originating cause of that blockade was not an election. It was (at least) Gaza's government's refusal to recognize Israel, make peace with Israel and honour the agreements made by the previous government.

The CONTINUING cause of the blockade is the consistent attacks made by Gaza, with the apparently full support of the government of Gaza, against Israel.

The solution could not be more obvious. Gaza gets THERE from here by declaring an end to any dispute about territory between her and Israel. (Just as Jordan and Egypt did in formal end-of-conflict agreements. There is a precedent here.)

Gaza gets there from here by declaring a state of peace between herself and Israel.

Gaza gets there from here by declaring independence.

Gaza gets there from here by funnelling resources to citizens and infrastructure and her economy rather than war and terrorism.

 

[teddyearp]

But how does Gaza get THERE from here? At the moment - the people are under a form of collective punishment for an election

Well no. Gaza is under a blockade (not collective punishment - a blockade) because Gaza imports weapons which are intended and in point of fact used as a means of violence against Israel. The intent of the blockade is to prevent belligerent violent actions against Israel.

The originating cause of that blockade was not an election. It was (at least) Gaza's government's refusal to recognize Israel, make peace with Israel and honour the agreements made by the previous government.

The CONTINUING cause of the blockade is the consistent attacks made by Gaza, with the apparently full support of the government of Gaza, against Israel.

The solution could not be more obvious. Gaza gets THERE from here by declaring an end to any dispute about territory between her and Israel. (Just as Jordan and Egypt did in formal end-of-conflict agreements. There is a precedence here.)

Gaza gets there from here by declaring a state of peace between herself and Israel.

Gaza gets there from here by declaring independence.

Gaza gets there from here by funnelling resources to citizens and infrastructure and her economy rather than war and terrorism.

That sums it up very well!

 

[Shusha]

Israel is allowed to arrest them.

In my opinion, Israeli military crossing the border to arrest, detain or otherwise control the citizens of what should be considered a separate sovereign territory is unconscionable. The entire point of Israel's defense of its border is to defend the border. It's not to control the territory governed by another elected entity. Therefore to cross that border would be hypocrisy.

 

[teddyearp]

The Pals are not fucking themselves.

No, but for sure their leadership is fucking them in the arse.

It's the fascists next door who keep demanding to be recognized.

As are the Palestinians, so why not both? Mutual recognition and peace and respect?

Yay or Nay?

 

[Shusha]

Not what the report states.

It states the area will be uninhabitable by 2020. What do you think "uninhabitable" means?

That is not what the report states.

If you want to talk about it specifically start a thread.

But be prepared to discuss water supply and the condition of aquifers in depth because I've done some research in this.

 

[teddyearp]

We will just skip over the previous days IDF murders then....<snip>

I am sorry you see it this way and not the truth of what these 'protests' are all about. Even the UNWRA promoted them. Why? Therefore you do not see the propaganda $$$$$ (blood) that have been waged and won, in some poor deluded folks anyways. . . .

 

[Shusha]

It doesn't matter who owns it. It only matters that Israel doesn't.

And Doesnt THAT just sum it all up.

 

[teddyearp]

I am noticing a change in the Team Israel mantra throughout this thread, it feels that there is a real desire to avoid specifics and simply comment on what, they believe, can be proven.

It has highlighted that, actually, even some more moderate Team Israel members are actually no better than the "animals" they claim to be fighting against. Has Team Israel become 'radicalized'?

Reading some of the Team Israel posts reminds me of conspiracy theorists who believe in a core idea BUT cannot put together a united basis of details.

I realize this thread has grown by leaps and bounds and I may be late in replying to this, but are you really saying that the burning tires, Molotov cocktails, chains to pull, and other means to breach the fence are a conspiracy theory?

 

[teddyearp]

You don't occupy your own land.

But who is occupying?

 

[Humanity]

Gaza is under a blockade (not collective punishment - a blockade)

Denying that the blockade is collective punishment is utterly ridiculous!

You have become ridiculous!

 

[Humanity]

The entire point of Israel's defense of its border is to defend the border. It's not to control the territory governed by another elected entity.

WHAT?

Then end the blockade! That IS "control of the territory governed by another elected entity"!

Your posts are so contradictory, you are so desperate to defend the actions of Israel you don't really know what you are saying anymore!

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I already said it once. The Arab Palestinian instigators, with the purpose of creating a media event, cannot use civilians to hide behind as a means to avoid IDF targeting. That is Rules, 23, 24, and 97. It is not a case of "shooting fish in a barrel." In fact, the HAMAS instigator is actually, under most case law, guilty of murder in any death on the border related to the commission of grievous bodily harm.

Justifiable use of force

• Defense of a Person
• Defense of Occupied Structure
• Use of Force in Defense of State Property serious damage or destruction
• Use of Force in defense of an attack
• Use of Force to Prevent Escape from Custody​

Does that give Israel the right to shoot fish in a barrel?

(COMMENT)

The Government of the Gaza Strip, which seems to be HAMAS, is using civilians in a way that is criminal in the eyes of domestic law. Human Wave attacks (swamping the border for political gain) is not an acceptable practice. Once the illegals immigrants step on sovereign Israeli Territory, new rules of domestic law kick-in. The very same way as when illegal aliens enter the US.

HAMAS Leaders are guilty of murder (in one form or another) in any border death, resulting from the instigated efforts they inspired. All most universally accepted justification for the use of forces by LEO's are:

IF you don't want to see demonstrators and protestors hurt, injured or killed, THEN don't advocate challenging the border. Mob violence is one of those chaotic events that can run out of control.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Humanity]

I am noticing a change in the Team Israel mantra throughout this thread, it feels that there is a real desire to avoid specifics and simply comment on what, they believe, can be proven.

It has highlighted that, actually, even some more moderate Team Israel members are actually no better than the "animals" they claim to be fighting against. Has Team Israel become 'radicalized'?

Reading some of the Team Israel posts reminds me of conspiracy theorists who believe in a core idea BUT cannot put together a united basis of details.

I realize this thread has grown by leaps and bounds and I may be late in replying to this, but are you really saying that the burning tires, Molotov cocktails, chains to pull, and other means to breach the fence are a conspiracy theory?

No.

What I am saying is that the posts and comments being made are a mix of some fact and a lot of BS. There are so many different 'reasons' to defend the actions of the IDF, so many 'reasons' to point the finger squarely at Gazans that, actually there is no cohesion in 'reason'...

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't understand what you think is crazy...

(COMMENT)

I understand that a vast majority of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) advocate actions "designed or likely to provoke or encourage and threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression;" having pledged themselves in Article 56 of the Charter. (Also see A/RES/2/110 (II) Measures to be taken against propaganda and the inciters of a new war.)

S/RES/1624 (2005) "calls upon all States to cooperate, inter alia, to strengthen the security of their international borders, including by combating fraudulent travel documents and, to the extent attainable, by enhancing terrorist screening and passenger security procedures with a view to preventing those guilty of the conduct in paragraph 1 (a) from entering their territory."

What is it you find entertaining?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[fncceo]

It would have to be free ... no one is going to pay to take it.

 

[Coyote]

But how does Gaza get THERE from here? At the moment - the people are under a form of collective punishment for an election

Well no. Gaza is under a blockade (not collective punishment - a blockade) because Gaza imports weapons which are intended and in point of fact used as a means of violence against Israel. The intent of the blockade is to prevent belligerent violent actions against Israel.

The originating cause of that blockade was not an election. It was (at least) Gaza's government's refusal to recognize Israel, make peace with Israel and honour the agreements made by the previous government.

The CONTINUING cause of the blockade is the consistent attacks made by Gaza, with the apparently full support of the government of Gaza, against Israel.

The solution could not be more obvious. Gaza gets THERE from here by declaring an end to any dispute about territory between her and Israel. (Just as Jordan and Egypt did in formal end-of-conflict agreements. There is a precedent here.)

Gaza gets there from here by declaring a state of peace between herself and Israel.

Gaza gets there from here by declaring independence.

Gaza gets there from here by funnelling resources to citizens and infrastructure and her economy rather than war and terrorism.

I disagree, the INTENT of the blockade was a collective punishment of the Gazan’s for electing Hamas. There was no escalation of violence preceding it and no attempts at talks with the new government. It has gone on for ten years with no inprovement.

How can Gaza declare independence? When the Palestinians sought any sort of U.N. recognition Israel punished those efforts. Israel punishes Palestinians for Unesco move

 

[Humanity]

It would have to be free ... no one is going to pay to take it.

Oh you just gotta love a dumbass comedian...

I'm quite sure that your beloved Israel would happily take full ownership. After all, I'm pretty sure that's their 'final solution'... Hmm sounds familiar!