IT WAS INEVITABLE: Speech control moves from the campus to the workplace

[Mac1958]

I'm more in awe of the power of ideology every day

I bet you are. I bet you can quote long excerpts from Das Kapital...comrade.

.

Well, you are a Democrat and therefore must be a commie.

Yes, things have gotten that polarized.

And simplistic. And ignorant.
.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The Trumpsters bitch about me personally, even in threads they'd otherwise support. Ya gotta love this place. Always fascinating.

Something to motivate you comrade...long live the people's revolution!

Let's review!

I start a thread that is critical of the Regressive Left, and through the logical and thoughtful application of your powerful critical thinking skills, you determine that I'm a communist.

The world's first communist financial advisor.

Well, I think you've really nailed this one, Sherlock. Your prodigious intellect really sniffed out Da Troof post haste here, you betcha.


.

 

[mudwhistle]

I'm more in awe of the power of ideology every day

I bet you are. I bet you can quote long excerpts from Das Kapital...comrade.

.

Well, you are a Democrat and therefore must be a commie.

Yes, things have gotten that polarized.

No......just being a Democrat doesn't mean you're a commie.
Voting for commies makes you a communist simpathizer.

 

[pknopp]

Something to motivate you comrade...long live the people's revolution!

Let's review!

I start a thread that is critical of the Regressive Left, and through the logical and thoughtful application of your powerful critical thinking skills, you determine that I'm a communist.

The world's first communist financial advisor.

Well, I think you've really nailed this one, Sherlock. Your prodigious intellect really sniffed out Da Troof post haste here, you betcha.


.

I honestly don't see much difference between what you deem 'regressive left' and Cult45 these days. Neither can seem to mind their own business to save their lives.

Businesses don't have ideologies. They have one goal, and that is to make money. Corporate loyalty is a thing of the past (if it ever even existed) and when we realize we're all expendable then there might be avenues to change the paradigm. The continuing Orwellian monitoring of employees is now commonplace as a giant CYA in an overly litigious, sensitive and politically polarized society.

As I say all the time, the two ends can be comically similar in their behaviors.

But I'm not even going as far as the companies themselves. I'm talking about this relentless drive to control, intimidate and punish communication on a macro scale. Political Correctness, Cancel Culture. This story is merely the latest drop in the hurricane.

I'm seeing this control being exerted more and more, and I'll fight it every step of the way. Freedom of expression is the most liberal of all values, it's our most important right, and this shit sure as hell isn't liberal.
.

Again, one has never had or rarely ever had freedom of expression in a place of work.

Again, freedom of expression, like most things, exists on a continuum.

Monitoring and enforcing words used in business meetings for "fairness" or "inclusion" is a clear step in the wrong direction, at least for those of us who are serious about maintaining as much freedom of expression as possible.
.

Your article is "clickbait". Nowhere is it happening.

But are you saying you miss discrimination in the work place?

 

[Mac1958]

Let's review!

I start a thread that is critical of the Regressive Left, and through the logical and thoughtful application of your powerful critical thinking skills, you determine that I'm a communist.

The world's first communist financial advisor.

Well, I think you've really nailed this one, Sherlock. Your prodigious intellect really sniffed out Da Troof post haste here, you betcha.


.

I honestly don't see much difference between what you deem 'regressive left' and Cult45 these days. Neither can seem to mind their own business to save their lives.

Businesses don't have ideologies. They have one goal, and that is to make money. Corporate loyalty is a thing of the past (if it ever even existed) and when we realize we're all expendable then there might be avenues to change the paradigm. The continuing Orwellian monitoring of employees is now commonplace as a giant CYA in an overly litigious, sensitive and politically polarized society.

As I say all the time, the two ends can be comically similar in their behaviors.

But I'm not even going as far as the companies themselves. I'm talking about this relentless drive to control, intimidate and punish communication on a macro scale. Political Correctness, Cancel Culture. This story is merely the latest drop in the hurricane.

I'm seeing this control being exerted more and more, and I'll fight it every step of the way. Freedom of expression is the most liberal of all values, it's our most important right, and this shit sure as hell isn't liberal.
.

Again, one has never had or rarely ever had freedom of expression in a place of work.

Again, freedom of expression, like most things, exists on a continuum.

Monitoring and enforcing words used in business meetings for "fairness" or "inclusion" is a clear step in the wrong direction, at least for those of us who are serious about maintaining as much freedom of expression as possible.
.

Your article is "clickbait". Nowhere is it happening.

But are you saying you miss discrimination in the work place?

It isn't happening yet because they're still working on the AI. My point is that it's part of a much larger picture.

I'm saying that you and I have very different standards for freedom of expression.
.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Really? One side runs on enmity towards every Other they can find, and on "government is the problem" as well as corporate subservience. The other runs on finding remedies to the exploding inequality brought about by political decisions since the 1980s, on countering the twin scourges of misogyny and racism, and on the notion that government has a useful role to play solving the major problems facing modern societies. All told, I am having difficulties finding any similarities between the two groups.

I'm saying regardless of the motivations, I'm finding the white noise is becoming indistinguishable. I understand the fundamental ideological differences between the left and right. However I believe we now live in this incredible Age of Information where everyone talks and no one listens. When you have that, you have noise. Nothing more.

As to business's ideologies, where the heck have you been through the last decades? Ranging from pretend-Christians interfering into their employees' reproductive health to Big Oil peddling climate change denialingdong lies, not to mention promulgating supply-side bullshit, businesses very much do have ideologies, along with big megaphones and truckloads of cash to bribe legislatures to go along with them.

You are describing corporate shareholders. I believe the Citizens United decision (a bad one, btw) put us down the road to corporate idealism and activism. But I still believe the motivations of businesses are still monetary at their core (Climate change costs big oil profits, health care cost companies profits, etc.) no matter what social or religious issue of the day they claim. The more money an industry has, the more power and pull they have. If someone or something jeopardizes their revenue stream, they will seek to eliminate it.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I'm talking about this relentless drive to control, intimidate and punish communication on a macro scale. Political Correctness, Cancel Culture. This story is merely the latest drop in the hurricane.

Society evolves for better or worse, my friend. To me, some of this is outrage by design, driven by traditional media. Some of it is society rejecting traditional models of authority. Some of it is an ever widening divide of economic classes. I believe society does better in a meritocracy, whereas others might believe in mob rule. The Internet was built as a superhighway of free expression where the kooks have the same voice as the reasonable. We are beginning to see the darker side where the modulation of the voices being unregulated is starting to cause problems.

I think social media is slowly killing our critical thought, thus killing our society. I find staying away from it keeps me balanced, whereas some of my friends and family are addicted to their bullhorns of anonymity. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should.

I'm seeing this control being exerted more and more, and I'll fight it every step of the way. Freedom of expression is the most liberal of all values, it's our most important right, and this shit sure as hell isn't liberal.

Agreed, but I've pretty much given up on people being accountable for their actions anymore. That's why I live far from the city. Fight the good fight.

I certainly don't see anything stopping this authoritarian, illiberal direction, but I'll sure as hell keep screaming at it!


.

It's really all we can do. Bitch about it on obscure message boards. We're so punk rock.

 

[pknopp]

I honestly don't see much difference between what you deem 'regressive left' and Cult45 these days. Neither can seem to mind their own business to save their lives.

Businesses don't have ideologies. They have one goal, and that is to make money. Corporate loyalty is a thing of the past (if it ever even existed) and when we realize we're all expendable then there might be avenues to change the paradigm. The continuing Orwellian monitoring of employees is now commonplace as a giant CYA in an overly litigious, sensitive and politically polarized society.

As I say all the time, the two ends can be comically similar in their behaviors.

But I'm not even going as far as the companies themselves. I'm talking about this relentless drive to control, intimidate and punish communication on a macro scale. Political Correctness, Cancel Culture. This story is merely the latest drop in the hurricane.

I'm seeing this control being exerted more and more, and I'll fight it every step of the way. Freedom of expression is the most liberal of all values, it's our most important right, and this shit sure as hell isn't liberal.
.

Again, one has never had or rarely ever had freedom of expression in a place of work.

Again, freedom of expression, like most things, exists on a continuum.

Monitoring and enforcing words used in business meetings for "fairness" or "inclusion" is a clear step in the wrong direction, at least for those of us who are serious about maintaining as much freedom of expression as possible.
.

Your article is "clickbait". Nowhere is it happening.

But are you saying you miss discrimination in the work place?

It isn't happening yet because they're still working on the AI. My point is that it's part of a much larger picture.

I'm saying that you and I have very different standards for freedom of expression.
.

And I asked you about yours but you didn't answer.

I recall articles many years ago about flying cars also......never really happened.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

I honestly don't see much difference between what you deem 'regressive left' and Cult45 these days. Neither can seem to mind their own business to save their lives.

Businesses don't have ideologies. They have one goal, and that is to make money. Corporate loyalty is a thing of the past (if it ever even existed) and when we realize we're all expendable then there might be avenues to change the paradigm. The continuing Orwellian monitoring of employees is now commonplace as a giant CYA in an overly litigious, sensitive and politically polarized society.

As I say all the time, the two ends can be comically similar in their behaviors.

But I'm not even going as far as the companies themselves. I'm talking about this relentless drive to control, intimidate and punish communication on a macro scale. Political Correctness, Cancel Culture. This story is merely the latest drop in the hurricane.

I'm seeing this control being exerted more and more, and I'll fight it every step of the way. Freedom of expression is the most liberal of all values, it's our most important right, and this shit sure as hell isn't liberal.
.

Again, one has never had or rarely ever had freedom of expression in a place of work.

Again, freedom of expression, like most things, exists on a continuum.

Monitoring and enforcing words used in business meetings for "fairness" or "inclusion" is a clear step in the wrong direction, at least for those of us who are serious about maintaining as much freedom of expression as possible.
.

Your article is "clickbait". Nowhere is it happening.

But are you saying you miss discrimination in the work place?

It isn't happening yet because they're still working on the AI. My point is that it's part of a much larger picture.

I'm saying that you and I have very different standards for freedom of expression.
.

Doesn't everyone? Corporate politics are a thing I've seen my entire life. Management is forever justifying its existence by concealing the same bullshit in creative and exciting new ways. I remember the buzzword bingo. Always creating a new 'team based synergism' that will 'redefine the paradigms' without having to 'reinvent the wheel.'

 

[Mac1958]

As I say all the time, the two ends can be comically similar in their behaviors.

But I'm not even going as far as the companies themselves. I'm talking about this relentless drive to control, intimidate and punish communication on a macro scale. Political Correctness, Cancel Culture. This story is merely the latest drop in the hurricane.

I'm seeing this control being exerted more and more, and I'll fight it every step of the way. Freedom of expression is the most liberal of all values, it's our most important right, and this shit sure as hell isn't liberal.
.

Again, one has never had or rarely ever had freedom of expression in a place of work.

Again, freedom of expression, like most things, exists on a continuum.

Monitoring and enforcing words used in business meetings for "fairness" or "inclusion" is a clear step in the wrong direction, at least for those of us who are serious about maintaining as much freedom of expression as possible.
.

Your article is "clickbait". Nowhere is it happening.

But are you saying you miss discrimination in the work place?

It isn't happening yet because they're still working on the AI. My point is that it's part of a much larger picture.

I'm saying that you and I have very different standards for freedom of expression.
.

And I asked you about yours but you didn't answer.

I recall articles many years ago about flying cars also......never really happened.

I'll try again: The mere fact that this is being considered is the issue, because it reflects a clear cultural and social trajectory towards more control over freedom of expression.

Individual stories are nearly irrelevant by themselves. Macro trends are the issue.
.

 

[Olde Europe]

Really? One side runs on enmity towards every Other they can find, and on "government is the problem" as well as corporate subservience. The other runs on finding remedies to the exploding inequality brought about by political decisions since the 1980s, on countering the twin scourges of misogyny and racism, and on the notion that government has a useful role to play solving the major problems facing modern societies. All told, I am having difficulties finding any similarities between the two groups.

I'm saying regardless of the motivations, I'm finding the white noise is becoming indistinguishable. I understand the fundamental ideological differences between the left and right. However I believe we now live in this incredible Age of Information where everyone talks and no one listens. When you have that, you have noise. Nothing more.

As to business's ideologies, where the heck have you been through the last decades? Ranging from pretend-Christians interfering into their employees' reproductive health to Big Oil peddling climate change denialingdong lies, not to mention promulgating supply-side bullshit, businesses very much do have ideologies, along with big megaphones and truckloads of cash to bribe legislatures to go along with them.

You are describing corporate shareholders. I believe the Citizens United decision (a bad one, btw) put us down the road to corporate idealism and activism. But I still believe the motivations of businesses are still monetary at their core (Climate change costs big oil profits, health care cost companies profits, etc.) no matter what social or religious issue of the day they claim. The more money an industry has, the more power and pull they have. If someone or something jeopardizes their revenue stream, they will seek to eliminate it.

Now, we found the groups are widely dissimilar. But they are passionate and they are talking. They even - on both sides - are exhibiting behavior indicating passion. So, Mac, in his unique perceptiveness, finds humans (!) on both sides, exhibiting human behavior (!), and he thinks that's a finding not just to phone home about, but to do so several dozen times per week. It's disappointing to see you touting the same horn, to be honest.

We further find businesses do have ideologies promulgated to serve their bottom lines, every so often at variance with truth and facts, and to the detriment of the wider society. From the perspective of common welfare this finding is important, and it acquires real urgency since it's coupled, as you rightly say, with the enormous power over politics and society mountains of cash bestow upon them. They most assuredly are not the pragmatic benefactors the "no ideologies" assertion seems to imply.

 

[pknopp]

Again, one has never had or rarely ever had freedom of expression in a place of work.

Again, freedom of expression, like most things, exists on a continuum.

Monitoring and enforcing words used in business meetings for "fairness" or "inclusion" is a clear step in the wrong direction, at least for those of us who are serious about maintaining as much freedom of expression as possible.
.

Your article is "clickbait". Nowhere is it happening.

But are you saying you miss discrimination in the work place?

It isn't happening yet because they're still working on the AI. My point is that it's part of a much larger picture.

I'm saying that you and I have very different standards for freedom of expression.
.

And I asked you about yours but you didn't answer.

I recall articles many years ago about flying cars also......never really happened.

I'll try again: The mere fact that this is being considered is the issue, because it reflects a clear cultural and social trajectory towards more control over freedom of expression.

Individual stories are nearly irrelevant by themselves. Macro trends are the issue.
.

You still didn't answer my question. What are you afraid of happening here?

 

[Mac1958]

Again, freedom of expression, like most things, exists on a continuum.

Monitoring and enforcing words used in business meetings for "fairness" or "inclusion" is a clear step in the wrong direction, at least for those of us who are serious about maintaining as much freedom of expression as possible.
.

Your article is "clickbait". Nowhere is it happening.

But are you saying you miss discrimination in the work place?

It isn't happening yet because they're still working on the AI. My point is that it's part of a much larger picture.

I'm saying that you and I have very different standards for freedom of expression.
.

And I asked you about yours but you didn't answer.

I recall articles many years ago about flying cars also......never really happened.

I'll try again: The mere fact that this is being considered is the issue, because it reflects a clear cultural and social trajectory towards more control over freedom of expression.

Individual stories are nearly irrelevant by themselves. Macro trends are the issue.
.

You still didn't answer my question. What are you afraid of happening here?

Good gawd.

More and more control over freedom of expression.

If you don't see this happening across our society and culture, from PC to our college campuses to "cancel culture", there's nothing else I can say here.

You're clearly okay with this environment. Great. I'm not. We disagree.
.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

So, Mac, in his unique perceptiveness, finds humans (!) on both sides, exhibiting human behavior (!), and he thinks that's a finding not just to phone home about, but to do so several dozen times per week. It's disappointing to see you touting the same horn, to be honest.

Relax, man. I appreciate any back and forth whenever I get it on this forum, even with yourself. I'm not changing the world here, nor is Mac. But we are actually discussing stuff. Sure he clutches his pearls about a lot of stuff, and sometimes I agree, and sometimes I don't. It's a refreshing change from the "you're a socialist poopyhead", "no, you're a fascist dildo" exchanges I see about 80% of the time on this forum. For a forum about politics, it sure is painfully bereft of discussions about policy, which is disappointing in itself. That's just the power of polarization at work, I suppose.

 

[pknopp]

Your article is "clickbait". Nowhere is it happening.

But are you saying you miss discrimination in the work place?

It isn't happening yet because they're still working on the AI. My point is that it's part of a much larger picture.

I'm saying that you and I have very different standards for freedom of expression.
.

And I asked you about yours but you didn't answer.

I recall articles many years ago about flying cars also......never really happened.

I'll try again: The mere fact that this is being considered is the issue, because it reflects a clear cultural and social trajectory towards more control over freedom of expression.

Individual stories are nearly irrelevant by themselves. Macro trends are the issue.
.

You still didn't answer my question. What are you afraid of happening here?

Good gawd.

More and more control over freedom of expression.

If you don't see this happening across our society and culture, from PC to our college campuses to "cancel culture", there's nothing else I can say here.

You're clearly okay with this environment. Great. I'm not. We disagree.
.

You didn't even read the article. I'll explain it better for you. The research is trying to determine whether or not a companies assets are being properly used. To reiterate, this is simply a research project.

They want to find out if all assets are being used correctly. ie: making sure that an engineers ideas aren't being dismissed because the engineer is female.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

It has been BAD ENOUGH that the Regressive Left has enabled the control of freedom of expression on AMERICAN college campuses (of all fucking places on the planet), and it has already spread into the workplace. But now we're looking at having an "artificial intelligence" device that LISTENS TO WORKPLACE CONVERSATIONS to be sure that we are being "inclusive" and "equal".

I am not making this up.

Could a smart device catch implicit bias in the workplace?

“The vision that we have [for this project] is that you would have a device, maybe something like Amazon Alexa, that sits on the table and observes the human team members while they are working on a problem, and supports them in various ways,” says Riedl, an associate professor who studies crowdsourcing, open innovation, and network science. “One of the ways in which we think we can support that team is by ensuring equal inclusion of all team members.”

The fact that this is even AN IDEA shows how far this has gone.

Enjoy. This is what happens we start controlling, intimidating and punishing freedom of expression. IN AMERICA.
.

The problem would be that Left Wingers are full of all kinds of bias against their opposition. The would not censure themselves.

 

[Olde Europe]

Relax, man. I appreciate any back and forth whenever I get it on this forum, even with yourself. I'm not changing the world here, nor is Mac. But we are actually discussing stuff. Sure he clutches his pearls about a lot of stuff, and sometimes I agree, and sometimes I don't. It's a refreshing change from the "you're a socialist poopyhead", "no, you're a fascist dildo" exchanges I see about 80% of the time on this forum. For a forum about politics, it sure is painfully bereft of discussions about policy, which is disappointing in itself. That's just the power of polarization at work, I suppose.

I have no real gripe with any of the above. This, however, ...

"I honestly don't see much difference between what you deem 'regressive left' and Cult45 these days."

... is the statement of a poopyhead. So there. We shoved it out of the way in a matter of minutes. Glad we did.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Again, freedom of expression, like most things, exists on a continuum.

Monitoring and enforcing words used in business meetings for "fairness" or "inclusion" is a clear step in the wrong direction, at least for those of us who are serious about maintaining as much freedom of expression as possible.
.

Your article is "clickbait". Nowhere is it happening.

But are you saying you miss discrimination in the work place?

It isn't happening yet because they're still working on the AI. My point is that it's part of a much larger picture.

I'm saying that you and I have very different standards for freedom of expression.
.

And I asked you about yours but you didn't answer.

I recall articles many years ago about flying cars also......never really happened.

I'll try again: The mere fact that this is being considered is the issue, because it reflects a clear cultural and social trajectory towards more control over freedom of expression.

Individual stories are nearly irrelevant by themselves. Macro trends are the issue.
.

You still didn't answer my question. What are you afraid of happening here?

I'll give you my take on it. Back in my corporate days, sitting through mandatory meetings was painful enough. The basic theme for most business meetings falls in between two concepts:

1. "your teamwork and communication skills suck, and we feel it is starting to affect our bottom line. Shape up, or you're all fired!"
2. "we're still making a profit, so we can keep paying your salaries. You're all superstars. Keep up the great work!" *cue the announcement of raises and promotions and/or creative reasoning for why raises/promotions won't be given out this quarter*

This article highlights research into the use of an interactive networked connected nanny device to be utilized in said meetings as a way to 'support' problem solving. I see that as pure corpspeak horseshit.

I have no idea if Mac feels about it the same way about it or not.

Why do I see it as horseshit? Because I choose not to use such devices (Alexa, et al) in my personal life, nor in my residence, because I value my privacy. Distributing such devices into workplace meeting rooms would make it mandatory in order to keep employment. I see no need for employers to bug their employees like they're in the fucking Gestapo. I also see no need for employers to require a computerized device to evaluate their employee's loyalty to the company, personality, and social awareness to pad their bottom line (IE, a human isn't required, so we save $$$), not to mention the total violation of privacy and free expression the use of such a device entails.

It would essentially be an unregulated H.R. bot for conference rooms, present in every meeting. No thank you. I decline allowing this Big Brother shit to gain any more power over my privacy, and so should anyone else who values theirs.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

"I honestly don't see much difference between what you deem 'regressive left' and Cult45 these days."

... is the statement of a poopyhead. So there. We shoved it out of the way in a matter of minutes. Glad we did.

Fair enough! Me too!

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

It has been BAD ENOUGH that the Regressive Left has enabled the control of freedom of expression on AMERICAN college campuses (of all fucking places on the planet), and it has already spread into the workplace. But now we're looking at having an "artificial intelligence" device that LISTENS TO WORKPLACE CONVERSATIONS to be sure that we are being "inclusive" and "equal".

I am not making this up.

Could a smart device catch implicit bias in the workplace?

“The vision that we have [for this project] is that you would have a device, maybe something like Amazon Alexa, that sits on the table and observes the human team members while they are working on a problem, and supports them in various ways,” says Riedl, an associate professor who studies crowdsourcing, open innovation, and network science. “One of the ways in which we think we can support that team is by ensuring equal inclusion of all team members.”

The fact that this is even AN IDEA shows how far this has gone.

Enjoy. This is what happens we start controlling, intimidating and punishing freedom of expression. IN AMERICA.
.

The problem would be that Left Wingers are full of all kinds of bias against their opposition. The would not censure themselves.

My only disagreement with your assessment is your use of the word 'Left'.