Italian and European economy:actual situation

[Kimura]

In sum, Italy has suffered under liberalism!! The solution is Republican capitalism. There are only two options. Which do you pick?

After almost a week from Italian election,political situation results very confused and I'm very worried.Because of this uncertainty,financial situation is getting worse.
In fact,during this week rendering's differential between Italian Bond and Deucht Bund drove up to 330/340 points,aulthough it was very far forme the 2011's level.
Now, Italian President Giorgio Napolitano(I remember that his powers are similar to Israelian President, not to French or American President!)could decide to charge Pier Luigi Bersani(center-left coalition's leader)to make a new government but the composition of a possible cabinet remains very uncertain, because of the strong opposition by Beppe Grillo, Five Stars Moviment's spokesman.
Maybe, Italian Republic's President charge on other man but the chanches to get a majority in the Senat, the major house, are now too weak.
However,Italy is not a banana's republicften the sense of responsability won in my country.

In sum, Italy has suffered under liberalism!! The solution is Republican capitalism. There are only two options. Which do you pick?

Italy is a democratic republic. Capitalism is an economic system, not a political system.

 

[Kimura]

A great interview with William Black....

Why Italy’s Election Has Caused Global Markets to Crater:

Click Here

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

After almost a week from Italian election,political situation results very confused and I'm very worried.Because of this uncertainty,financial situation is getting worse.
In fact,during this week rendering's differential between Italian Bond and Deucht Bund drove up to 330/340 points,aulthough it was very far forme the 2011's level.
Now, Italian President Giorgio Napolitano(I remember that his powers are similar to Israelian President, not to French or American President!)could decide to charge Pier Luigi Bersani(center-left coalition's leader)to make a new government but the composition of a possible cabinet remains very uncertain, because of the strong opposition by Beppe Grillo, Five Stars Moviment's spokesman.
Maybe, Italian Republic's President charge on other man but the chanches to get a majority in the Senat, the major house, are now too weak.
However,Italy is not a banana's republicften the sense of responsability won in my country.

In sum, Italy has suffered under liberalism!! The solution is Republican capitalism. There are only two options. Which do you pick?

Italy is a democratic republic. Capitalism is an economic system, not a political system.

and do you have a point??? IF so please tell us what it is??

 

[Kimura]

In sum, Italy has suffered under liberalism!! The solution is Republican capitalism. There are only two options. Which do you pick?

Italy is a democratic republic. Capitalism is an economic system, not a political system.

and do you have a point??? IF so please tell us what it is??

Yeah, what in god's name is 'Republican capitalism'?

 

[usmcstinger]

Nice try. Not all Americans are gullible.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Italy is a democratic republic. Capitalism is an economic system, not a political system.

and do you have a point??? IF so please tell us what it is??

Yeah, what in god's name is 'Republican capitalism'?

its the kind Republicans support, obviously.

 

[Alcantara]

After the first crisis of euro, from 2011's spring to 2012's summer, traders and international press are already talking about on other crisis, caused by Italian political instability, after the Parliamentarian elections on February.
At the moment, financial situation is not worrying, because there's the new mechanism of stability, made by E.U. last year.
The real damger is the growing disaffection in all Europe-but especially in Southern Europe (Spain,Portugal,Greece and Italy)-for the european ideal, that was very popular during last century.
Probabily in 90's there was a serious error:the combination of a new value(euro)and of a quick enlargement to other countries(especially in Eastern Europe) was too heavy for European institutions, especially without an indispensable reforme to democratize the E.U.
So Europe has now seen just as an economic area, while when E.U. is more little(the famous "Europe of Six"or "Europe of twelve")European people had a feeling of a common belonging.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

After the first crisis of euro, from 2011's spring to 2012's summer, traders and international press are already talking about on other crisis, caused by Italian political instability, after the Parliamentarian elections on February.
At the moment, financial situation is not worrying, because there's the new mechanism of stability, made by E.U. last year.
The real damger is the growing disaffection in all Europe-but especially in Southern Europe (Spain,Portugal,Greece and Italy)-for the european ideal, that was very popular during last century.
Probabily in 90's there was a serious error:the combination of a new value(euro)and of a quick enlargement to other countries(especially in Eastern Europe) was too heavy for European institutions, especially without an indispensable reforme to democratize the E.U.
So Europe has now seen just as an economic area, while when E.U. is more little(the famous "Europe of Six"or "Europe of twelve")European people had a feeling of a common belonging.

You are talking gibberish all over the map. The issue is capitalism versus socialism. Which are you and why.

 

[Alcantara]

After the first crisis of euro, from 2011's spring to 2012's summer, traders and international press are already talking about on other crisis, caused by Italian political instability, after the Parliamentarian elections on February.
At the moment, financial situation is not worrying, because there's the new mechanism of stability, made by E.U. last year.
The real damger is the growing disaffection in all Europe-but especially in Southern Europe (Spain,Portugal,Greece and Italy)-for the european ideal, that was very popular during last century.
Probabily in 90's there was a serious error:the combination of a new value(euro)and of a quick enlargement to other countries(especially in Eastern Europe) was too heavy for European institutions, especially without an indispensable reforme to democratize the E.U.
So Europe has now seen just as an economic area, while when E.U. is more little(the famous "Europe of Six"or "Europe of twelve")European people had a feeling of a common belonging.

You are talking gibberish all over the map. The issue is capitalism versus socialism. Which are you and why.

In this thread I'm talking about Italian economy,not about socialism

North–South divide
European Regional Development Fund 2007-2013: Southern Italy is almost all classified under the Convergence objective (GDP per capita less than 75% of the EU average).

Starting with the unification of Italy in 1861, a wide and increasing economic divide has been noticeably growing between the northern provinces and the southern half of the Italian state.[62] In the early decades of the new kingdom, the lack of an effective land reform, heavy taxes and other economic measures imposed on the South, together with the removal of protectionist tariffs on agricultural goods, made the situation virtually impossible for many tenant farmers, and small business and land owners. Multitudes chose to emigrate rather than try to eke out a meager living, especially from 1892 to 1921.[63]

In addition, the surge of brigandage and the mafia provoked widespread violence, corruption and illegality. After the rise of Benito Mussolini, the "Iron Prefect" Cesare Mori tried to defeat the already powerful criminal organizations flourishing in the South with some degree of success. Fascist policy aimed at the creation of an Italian empire and Southern Italian ports were strategic for all commerce towards the colonies. Naples enjoyed a demographic and economic rebirth, mainly thanks to the interest of King Victor Emmanuel III who was born there.[64] With the invasion of Southern Italy, the Allies restored the authority of the mafia families lost during the Fascist period and used their influence to maintain public order.[65]

In the 1950s the Cassa per il Mezzogiorno was set up as a huge public master plan to help industrializing the South, aiming to do this in two ways: through land reforms creating 120,000 new smallholdings, and through the "Growth Pole Strategy" whereby 60% of all government investment would go to the South, thus boosting the Southern economy by attracting new capital, stimulating local firms, and providing employment. However, the objectives were largely missed, and as a result the South became increasingly subsidized and state dependent, incapable of generating private growth itself.[66]

Even at present, huge regional disparities persist. Problems in Southern Italy still include widespread political corruption, pervading organized crime and very high unemployment rates.[67] It is estimated that about 80% of the businesses in the Sicilian cities of Catania and Palermo regularly pay protection money.[68] The Confesercenti reported that organized crime generated €140 billion in gross sales,[69] an estimated annual profit of €100 billion, and boasted estimated cash reserves of €65 billion.[70]

 

[Alcantara]

Yesterday,March 22th,the Italian President(Chief of Italian State)has charged Pierluigi Bersani, leader of the progressive Democratic Party, to make a new cabinet,after February's election.However,improbably Bersani will be able to realize this enterprise, because in the Senate-differently from lower house-his party hasn't an absolute majority, so it's probable that the Italian President Giorgio Napolitano will charge an other man for a temporary cabinet,similar to present and resigning cabinet, leaded by Mario Monti.
Many italian industrials and alle European partners would like a stable and reformere cabinet to fight against economic crisis, very hard and too long in Italy(third economy in Eurozone,after France and Germany).

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yesterday,March 22th,the Italian President(Chief of Italian State)has charged Pierluigi Bersani, leader of the progressive Democratic Party, to make a new cabinet,after February's election.However,improbably Bersani will be able to realize this enterprise, because in the Senate-differently from lower house-his party hasn't an absolute majority, so it's probable that the Italian President Giorgio Napolitano will charge an other man for a temporary cabinet,similar to present and resigning cabinet, leaded by Mario Monti.
Many italian industrials and alle European partners would like a stable and reformere cabinet to fight against economic crisis, very hard and too long in Italy(third economy in Eurozone,after France and Germany).

You are talking gibberish all over the map. The issue is capitalism versus socialism. Which are you and why.

 

[Alcantara]

According to a diffuse opinion, on March 2013 a second crise of Eurozone has began, because of a concomitance of elements:the indispensable riscue of Cyprus;the serious economic situation in Slovenia and in Spain(also in Italy, while Irish situation has cleanly improved during last year);the political situation in Italy,that hasn't a cabinet in charge from last December.
However,the end and the the break-up of eurozone has considered a very unlikely situation, because a return to old national values(lira,dracma,peseta etc.)is an extremely problematic solution for national economies with enormous problems, as Spain and especially Italy,Portugal,Greece:an enormous public debt (mostly Italy and Greece);an inefficent justice(mostly civil justice in Italy);an economic system, not competitive and backward;very poor and depressed zone,with a big unemployment(Southern Italy,Sicily,Andalusia etc.).All those problems are more ancient than euro,that isn't the guilty of this drammatic situation in the euro-periphery.
However, Eurozone didn't find a correct balance between austerity-that Germany and other Northern countries like- and economic laxism-that Southern countries prefer and so an ancient and noble ideal as the United Europe is in a terrible and perhaps deadly crise.And its death could be the end of Europe's powerful.

 

[Alcantara]

About the debate "capitalism vs. socialism",I can mention the italian experience:during the long period after the Second Wordl War and until the crise of 1992, Italian economy was a mixted system,with a strong presence of the State in the productive areas but it remained formally a capitalist economy.However, because of privatitations made by Amato and Ciampi's cabinets during 1992/1994,the rule of State in economy began more light.With center-right and right's cabinet-during last decennium-curiously State didn't retire from economy and too Monti's cabinet didn't pursue a strong privatitation,although its inspiration was prevalently liberal but not really liberist.
So in Italy THERE WASN'T a real liberism,similar to Thatcher's liberism in Great Britain during 80's or Reagan's liberism in USA and this situation is analogous to other Mediterrean countries, as Greece,that is poorest and less industrialized.

 

[Alcantara]

Yesterday Italian parliament re-elected Giorgio Napolitano for President:it was first re-election in the republican history.

 

[Alcantara]

Italian President(Giorgio Napolitano,re-elected by Italian Parliament last week)charged Enrico Letta, a progressist and europest political,to make a national unity's cabinet,similar to Andreotti's cabinet in 1976.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

About the debate "capitalism vs. socialism",I can mention the italian experience:during the long period after the Second Wordl War and until the crise of 1992, Italian economy was a mixted system,with a strong presence of the State in the productive areas but it remained formally a capitalist economy.However, because of privatitations made by Amato and Ciampi's cabinets during 1992/1994,the rule of State in economy began more light.With center-right and right's cabinet-during last decennium-curiously State didn't retire from economy and too Monti's cabinet didn't pursue a strong privatitation,although its inspiration was prevalently liberal but not really liberist.
So in Italy THERE WASN'T a real liberism,similar to Thatcher's liberism in Great Britain during 80's or Reagan's liberism in USA and this situation is analogous to other Mediterrean countries, as Greece,that is poorest and less industrialized.

yes Italy is a lazy southern European socialist culture with a low standard of living and free lunch liberal mentality. Few there have the mental capacity to understand how capitalism works. Obviously sad- right?

 

[Alcantara]

About the debate "capitalism vs. socialism",I can mention the italian experience:during the long period after the Second Wordl War and until the crise of 1992, Italian economy was a mixted system,with a strong presence of the State in the productive areas but it remained formally a capitalist economy.However, because of privatitations made by Amato and Ciampi's cabinets during 1992/1994,the rule of State in economy began more light.With center-right and right's cabinet-during last decennium-curiously State didn't retire from economy and too Monti's cabinet didn't pursue a strong privatitation,although its inspiration was prevalently liberal but not really liberist.
So in Italy THERE WASN'T a real liberism,similar to Thatcher's liberism in Great Britain during 80's or Reagan's liberism in USA and this situation is analogous to other Mediterrean countries, as Greece,that is poorest and less industrialized.

yes Italy is a lazy southern European socialist culture with a low standard of living and free lunch liberal mentality. Few there have the mental capacity to understand how capitalism works. Obviously sad- right?

Dear friend,first of all excuse me for my lacking English.
However,Italy,Greece and Portugal are capitalist economies but with influential corporantions("camarille"in Italian),that limit economic freedom and so Italy(especially Southern Italy,more than Northern Italy)is more similar to a former Socialist State in Eastern Europe(Hungary,for example)in some economic sectors.
But Italy is more rich than Greece or Portugal;in fact,NORTHER ITALY IS RICH AS HOLLAND AND GERMANY FOR G.D.P. and in Italy we have some extended industrial districts,absent in Greece and Portugal and also in Spain.
Is it clear?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

However,Italy,Greece and Portugal are capitalist economies

dear, we have to start all over with you!!! Italy and Greece are not capitalist. You have to learn that first before your lesson can continue. When the government sector is huge as it is in Italy and Greece every bit of it limits and contrains capitalism to the point where you can say it is no longer capitalism.

Please tell me if this is over your head. Thanks

 

[Alcantara]

Ok.
At present in Italy there is a cabinet of national solidarity,similat to 1976's cabinet and to present Greek government.From last week the Prime Minister is Enrico Letta,belonging to Democratic Party(center-left)but the majority has constitued by P.D.L. too,Silvio Berlusconi's party(right)and by Civic Lyst,Mario Monti's party.It is a reformator and Europeist cabinet.

 

[oldfart]

However,Italy,Greece and Portugal are capitalist economies

dear, we have to start all over with you!!! Italy and Greece are not capitalist. You have to learn that first before your lesson can continue. When the government sector is huge as it is in Italy and Greece every bit of it limits and contrains capitalism to the point where you can say it is no longer capitalism.

Please tell me if this is over your head. Thanks

Ed, back off. You are embarrassing yourself. This guy knows far more of European politics and economics than you will ever be able to comprehend. All you are doing is displaying a total ignorance of the topic. You don't own this topic and cannot dictate to other posters.

Anyone else feel as I do that this thread has been valuable and interesting and deserves to continue?