Its July 4th.....Have you thanked a Liberal today???

[midcan5]

Since this thread is over 380 posts I'm glad to see that conservatives are thanking we liberal thinking people for their freedoms, it sure is nice to see this gratitude, makes my heart feel good.

"The story of America is of a nation that has grown greater and stronger by becoming more diverse and inclusive and extending the fruits of liberty more widely among its people. American liberals do not have to invent something new or import a philosophical tradition from abroad. They have only to reclaim the idea of American greatness as their own." Paul Starr

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Since this thread is over 380 posts I'm glad to see that conservatives are thanking we liberal thinking people for their freedoms, it sure is nice to see this gratitude, makes my heart feel good.

"The story of America is of a nation that has grown greater and stronger by becoming more diverse and inclusive and extending the fruits of liberty more widely among its people. American liberals do not have to invent something new or import a philosophical tradition from abroad. They have only to reclaim the idea of American greatness as their own." Paul Starr

Here's what I think of your liberal revision of histroy.

How's that for youyr version of history?

 

[daveman]

Since this thread is over 380 posts I'm glad to see that conservatives are thanking we liberal thinking people for their freedoms, it sure is nice to see this gratitude, makes my heart feel good.

"The story of America is of a nation that has grown greater and stronger by becoming more diverse and inclusive and extending the fruits of liberty more widely among its people. American liberals do not have to invent something new or import a philosophical tradition from abroad. They have only to reclaim the idea of American greatness as their own." Paul Starr

In other words, they have to rewrite history, just like the idiot in the OP did.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I love it when conservatives rewrite history

Why don't you tell me about Paul Revere?

No one should re-write history. Not even liberals. It's not your history. It belongs to us all. We do not 'thank you' because you have done nothing to be grateful for. Typical leftist, thinking you can claim credit for the passion, commitment, and work of others.

Our founding fathers were the most extreme liberals of their day. They deserve as much recognition as we can give them.

It is common knowledge that conservatives of the day supported the crown

RW.....those guys were a little bit of both......you dont think those "Liberals" had a few Conservative views on life at the time.....like their Religious views for instance.....their Lifestyle at that time would probably seen pretty dam Conservative....and im sure the most Liberal minded of them and the most Conservative minded of them had no problem coming together with that very RADICAL idea....INDEPENDENCE!....back then....outside of the Loyalist those guys were all on the same page.....Liberal....Conservative.....they never considered that shit.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Our founding fathers were the most extreme liberals of their day. They deserve as much recognition as we can give them.

It is common knowledge that conservatives of the day supported the crown

They were not liberals, nor were they 'extreme'. They do deserve recognition..... and they get it. You don't. According to you, we're supposed to 'thank a liberal'.... again.... because I know this is a difficult concept for 'liberals' to understand. We don't owe you any thanks - you haven't done anything for us to be grateful for. What part of that is so fucking hard for you to understand. Why do you try and take credit for the passion, commitment and work of OUR forefathers? Why do you despise America's history so much that you feel the need to re-write it to credit yourself with it?

Shame on you.

Oh, and 'common knowledge' is code for 'I made this up and can't prove it but I need to make it sound like everyone agrees with me'. Fucking moronic bullshit.

Nothing to be grateful for?

How about ending slavery?
Woman's rights?
40 hour work week?
Ending child labor?
Environmental protections?

Can we at least thank Conservatives for fighting against all those things?

you know what RW?......back in the 20's 30's 40's 50's and 60's a hell of a lot of workers were people who would probably be considered Conservative back then.....they worked in those fucking shitty conditions right along side of the "Liberal" people.....they also belonged to fucking Unions.....and those "Conservative" Workers fought for those same dam things as their Liberal Brothers did.....so quite trying to associate those times as just LIBERAL causes....because both sides fought along side each other to get those improvements....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Since this thread is over 380 posts I'm glad to see that conservatives are thanking we liberal thinking people for their freedoms, it sure is nice to see this gratitude, makes my heart feel good.

"The story of America is of a nation that has grown greater and stronger by becoming more diverse and inclusive and extending the fruits of liberty more widely among its people. American liberals do not have to invent something new or import a philosophical tradition from abroad. They have only to reclaim the idea of American greatness as their own." Paul Starr

no one is thanking YOU for anything dipshit.....go back to the Sofa and get back to sleep....

 

[rightwinger]

They were not liberals, nor were they 'extreme'. They do deserve recognition..... and they get it. You don't. According to you, we're supposed to 'thank a liberal'.... again.... because I know this is a difficult concept for 'liberals' to understand. We don't owe you any thanks - you haven't done anything for us to be grateful for. What part of that is so fucking hard for you to understand. Why do you try and take credit for the passion, commitment and work of OUR forefathers? Why do you despise America's history so much that you feel the need to re-write it to credit yourself with it?

Shame on you.

Oh, and 'common knowledge' is code for 'I made this up and can't prove it but I need to make it sound like everyone agrees with me'. Fucking moronic bullshit.

Nothing to be grateful for?

How about ending slavery?
Woman's rights?
40 hour work week?
Ending child labor?
Environmental protections?

Can we at least thank Conservatives for fighting against all those things?

you know what RW?......back in the 20's 30's 40's 50's and 60's a hell of a lot of workers were people who would probably be considered Conservative back then.....they worked in those fucking shitty conditions right along side of the "Liberal" people.....they also belonged to fucking Unions.....and those "Conservative" Workers fought for those same dam things as their Liberal Brothers did.....so quite trying to associate those times as just LIBERAL causes....because both sides fought along side each other to get those improvements....

Who did they fight against?

Which political entity pushed union busting legislation? (and still does)
Who screamed about all the jobs that would be lost if companies could not treat workers any way they wished? Who fought against the 40 hour week and worker safety laws because they would hurt profits?

The Conservatives....that's who

 

[Harry Dresden]

Nothing to be grateful for?

How about ending slavery?
Woman's rights?
40 hour work week?
Ending child labor?
Environmental protections?

Can we at least thank Conservatives for fighting against all those things?

you know what RW?......back in the 20's 30's 40's 50's and 60's a hell of a lot of workers were people who would probably be considered Conservative back then.....they worked in those fucking shitty conditions right along side of the "Liberal" people.....they also belonged to fucking Unions.....and those "Conservative" Workers fought for those same dam things as their Liberal Brothers did.....so quite trying to associate those times as just LIBERAL causes....because both sides fought along side each other to get those improvements....

Who did they fight against?

Which political entity pushed union busting legislation? (and still does)
Who screamed about all the jobs that would be lost if companies could not treat workers any way they wished? Who fought against the 40 hour week and worker safety laws because they would hurt profits?

The Conservatives....that's who

the Workers all fought together to get working Conditions improved RW .....ALL OF THEM......a Party is a fucking Party.....the PEOPLE are the PEOPLE.....and together those workers along with the Unions changed things in spite of the fucking Party.....a Conservative worker had to endure the same Bullshit that a Liberal one did....THEY and the Unions changed things.....not the Fucking Parties......the Parties only react when prodded by the PEOPLE.....quit trying to sound like fucking Dean.....your doing a piss poor job...

 

[theHawk]

I know most of us are celebrating today with picnics, hot dogs and fireworks. But on this day of celebration of one of the most significant liberal accomplishments, it is time to reflect on just what this day means

Our liberal founding fathers shook the world when they declared that "All men are created equal" When you think of it, this was a time when royalty ruled by the merits of their blood alone. It was a time when different classes of people received different treatment from the government. It was a time when those who toiled in the fields received different treatment than those who owned the fields

In the most liberal concept of the day, our founding fathers stood up and declared .....We have god given rights to be treated the same as anyone else. Imagine declaring that royalty are no better than anyone else? Or that someone working in the fields deserved the same rights and the same vote as someone who owned the land or that some illiterate peasant deserved the same treatment as a royal family member.

Imagine what this country would be like if our founding fathers had listened to the conservatives of the day and remained loyal to the King or implemented a class system based on wealth?

Yes, this is a day of celebration of the greatest country in the history of the world. Take the time to be thankful for what this country gives us and find a liberal and give them a smile and a thumbs up for this special day

If modern day liberals were around in the late 18th century, they would of decried the Revolutionists "terrorists", "war mongers", "greedy people who don't want to pay taxes", and of course "religious zealots" for believing people have "God given rights" as opposed to rights granted by the state.

 

[Moonglow]

I know most of us are celebrating today with picnics, hot dogs and fireworks. But on this day of celebration of one of the most significant liberal accomplishments, it is time to reflect on just what this day means

Our liberal founding fathers shook the world when they declared that "All men are created equal" When you think of it, this was a time when royalty ruled by the merits of their blood alone. It was a time when different classes of people received different treatment from the government. It was a time when those who toiled in the fields received different treatment than those who owned the fields

In the most liberal concept of the day, our founding fathers stood up and declared .....We have god given rights to be treated the same as anyone else. Imagine declaring that royalty are no better than anyone else? Or that someone working in the fields deserved the same rights and the same vote as someone who owned the land or that some illiterate peasant deserved the same treatment as a royal family member.

Imagine what this country would be like if our founding fathers had listened to the conservatives of the day and remained loyal to the King or implemented a class system based on wealth?

Yes, this is a day of celebration of the greatest country in the history of the world. Take the time to be thankful for what this country gives us and find a liberal and give them a smile and a thumbs up for this special day

If modern day liberals were around in the late 18th century, they would of decried the Revolutionists "terrorists", "war mongers", "greedy people who don't want to pay taxes", and of course "religious zealots" for believing people have "God given rights" as opposed to rights granted by the state.

God said he needs you back in Heaven. He's tired of running your Heaven for you.

 

[Lars]

Imagine what this country would be like if our founding fathers had listened to the conservatives of the day and remained loyal to the King or implemented a class system based on wealth?

A better place. Probably would have been America broken into regional countries, with with a far more libertarian/conservative south and west and a more democratic socialist northeast. And more likely than not these countries would have been in less debt and far less interventionist in world affairs.

 

[Lars]

Our founding fatherrs were the most extreme liberals of their day...

Imagine actually believing that "All men are created equal" in a day when royalty ruled by basis of their bloodlines and order of birth?

Imagine creating a country where a poor, illiterate laborer receives the same vote as the most wealthy citizen?


Liberal thought has improved this country since its founding

The founders didn't believe in universal democracy. Only White Male Landowners could vote, property qualifications didn't even begin to cease until 1812 and restrictions in certain states lasted up until the Civil War.

 

[California Girl]

Imagine what this country would be like if our founding fathers had listened to the conservatives of the day and remained loyal to the King or implemented a class system based on wealth?

A better place. Probably would have been America broken into regional countries, with with a far more libertarian/conservative south and west and a more democratic socialist northeast. And more likely than not these countries would have been in less debt and far less interventionist in world affairs.

Let's be clear..... back in the 1700's.... there were not 'Libertarian/Conservatives' nor were there any 'democratic socialists'.

Revisionist history is bullshit. History is fact. It not applying today's politics to yesterday's reality.

 

[Lars]

Imagine what this country would be like if our founding fathers had listened to the conservatives of the day and remained loyal to the King or implemented a class system based on wealth?

A better place. Probably would have been America broken into regional countries, with with a far more libertarian/conservative south and west and a more democratic socialist northeast. And more likely than not these countries would have been in less debt and far less interventionist in world affairs.

Let's be clear..... back in the 1700's.... there were not 'Libertarian/Conservatives' nor were there any 'democratic socialists'.

Revisionist history is bullshit. History is fact. It not applying today's politics to yesterday's reality.

Well, actually, the country was founded on libertarian principles. Classical Liberals were libertarians. Secondly, if American colonists lost the War of Secession from Britain, they wouldn't have been a country. Isn't that obvious? So they would have most likely developed on a similar trajectory to Canada and become part of the commonwealth. Though the ideological differences and cultural differences between regions would have most likely led to different countries if America never won Independence to begin with.

 

[California Girl]

A better place. Probably would have been America broken into regional countries, with with a far more libertarian/conservative south and west and a more democratic socialist northeast. And more likely than not these countries would have been in less debt and far less interventionist in world affairs.

Let's be clear..... back in the 1700's.... there were not 'Libertarian/Conservatives' nor were there any 'democratic socialists'.

Revisionist history is bullshit. History is fact. It not applying today's politics to yesterday's reality.

Well, actually, the country was founded on libertarian principles. Classical Liberals were libertarians. Secondly, if American colonists lost the War of Secession from Britain, they wouldn't have been a country. Isn't that obvious? So they would have most likely developed on a similar trajectory to Canada and become part of the commonwealth. Though the ideological differences and cultural differences between regions would have most likely led to different countries if America never won Independence to begin with.

You may not have realized but we live in a substantially different world to the one of our forefathers. Classical Liberals are NOT Libertarians.... Libertarians are naive, Classical Liberals are more practical, logical and (dare I say it) more rational than Libertarians.

Having said that, if we were to apply today's political views to the Founders (which I disagree with, but let's go with it anyway)... the Founders were closer to Libertarians than modern Liberals.

 

[Political Junky]

Conservatives were Loyalists, who preferred to remain under British rule.

 

[California Girl]

Conservatives were Loyalists, who preferred to remain under British rule.

Liar.

 

[Lars]

Let's be clear..... back in the 1700's.... there were not 'Libertarian/Conservatives' nor were there any 'democratic socialists'.

Revisionist history is bullshit. History is fact. It not applying today's politics to yesterday's reality.

Well, actually, the country was founded on libertarian principles. Classical Liberals were libertarians. Secondly, if American colonists lost the War of Secession from Britain, they wouldn't have been a country. Isn't that obvious? So they would have most likely developed on a similar trajectory to Canada and become part of the commonwealth. Though the ideological differences and cultural differences between regions would have most likely led to different countries if America never won Independence to begin with.

You may not have realized but we live in a substantially different world to the one of our forefathers. Classical Liberals are NOT Libertarians.... Libertarians are naive, Classical Liberals are more practical, logical and (dare I say it) more rational than Libertarians.

Having said that, if we were to apply today's political views to the Founders (which I disagree with, but let's go with it anyway)... the Founders were closer to Libertarians than modern Liberals.

Libertarians for the most part in the intermediary support a Constitutional Federal Government restricted to Article I Section 8. That is in line with the Founders, not that I naively belive the founders even followed the strict standards they set for themselves. But the founding principles our Constitution were founded on were libertarian in their emphasis on decentralization and separation of powers, along with their several protections for individual freedoms. The Libertarian Party of all the major parties is most in line with the original governing philosophy of the founders. They weren't fucking neo cons or religious right fundie fucktards like most republicans today are.

Having said that, you have completely sidetracked the conversation. Anyways, one of the points of history is to analyze and speculate about alternate occurrences and debate paste events.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

For all you lying history revising liberal shitheads

OK let's do it this way
Hamilton was your big government liberal
Jefferson was your Constitutionalist.
2) How was the conflict between Jefferson and Hamilton a significant factor in the emergence of political parties?

The Jefferson/Hamilton conflict helped give rise to political parties by polarizing factions on opposite political sides. Those who backed Jefferson’s Democratic-Republicans supported states rights, a strict reading of the Constitution, and support for the French Revolution. Those who back Hamilton’s Federalists preferred a much stronger central government, an “elastic” reading of the Constitution, and a hands-off approach to the French Revolution.
Hamilton Vs. Jefferson « .
Now how did hamilton's life end?

Burr–Hamilton duel
The duel was the final skirmish of a long conflict between Democratic-Republicans and Federalists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr–Hamilton_duel
No I don't think you liberal federalist would have been welcomed in American then.

 

[California Girl]

Well, actually, the country was founded on libertarian principles. Classical Liberals were libertarians. Secondly, if American colonists lost the War of Secession from Britain, they wouldn't have been a country. Isn't that obvious? So they would have most likely developed on a similar trajectory to Canada and become part of the commonwealth. Though the ideological differences and cultural differences between regions would have most likely led to different countries if America never won Independence to begin with.

You may not have realized but we live in a substantially different world to the one of our forefathers. Classical Liberals are NOT Libertarians.... Libertarians are naive, Classical Liberals are more practical, logical and (dare I say it) more rational than Libertarians.

Having said that, if we were to apply today's political views to the Founders (which I disagree with, but let's go with it anyway)... the Founders were closer to Libertarians than modern Liberals.

Libertarians for the most part in the intermediary support a Constitutional Federal Government restricted to Article I Section 8. That is in line with the Founders, not that I naively belive the founders even followed the strict standards they set for themselves. But the founding principles our Constitution were founded on were libertarian in their emphasis on decentralization and separation of powers, along with their several protections for individual freedoms. The Libertarian Party of all the major parties is most in line with the original governing philosophy of the founders. They weren't fucking neo cons or religious right fundie fucktards like most republicans today are.

Having said that, you have completely sidetracked the conversation. Anyways, one of the points of history is to analyze and speculate about alternate occurrences and debate paste events.

I know what Libertarians are.

And, yea, we can analyze and speculate.... but we cannot claim things that are not true and that is what RightWhiner does.