Its July 4th.....Have you thanked a Liberal today???

[mudwhistle]

You guys are great the thank yous keep coming. Elvis is one of my greatest fans, he's trying to open his mind, so give him a cheer.

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I apologize for what I said last week, but you\'re still an idiot

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elvis

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California Girl, Daveman, and Elvis,

Thanks for the rep and the questions concerning liberalism, here's a comparative list that may help you on your way to an open mind. Good luck and keep the cards and letters and fan mail coming. It is always appreciated.

regards, midcan


Shall we compare and contrast liberal progressivism with conservatism, lets.

Liberal Progressivism (LP) first:

Leaves the cave to create better lodging outside in the sun
Creation of tools
Hunting and fishing
Farming and husbandry
Creation of markets and merchants
Renaissance
Enlightenment
Political liberalism
Constitutional democracy
Public education for all
Abolished Slavery
Suffrage
Child labor laws
Unions fair pay and safe working conditions
Food and product safety regulations
Regulation to control financial meltdowns
Social Security
Won the war against fascism
Creation of United Nations
Civil rights voting rights
End of segregation
Poverty safety net
Woman's right to decide
Environmental controls
Equal rights for marriage to all
Universal health care

And we just keep going....

Now Conservatism:

Cave living and howling at the moon
Refusal to follow liberals out of the cave
Whine
More whining
More and more whining
More and more and more whining
Earth is flat stay put and whine
More and more and more and more whining
Red scare loud whining and finger pointing
More and more and more and more and more whining
More and more and more and more and more and more whining
Create think tanks for improved whining.
More and more and more and more and more and more and more whining
Terrorist acts create more whining with the addition of fear
Above whinin g and increased finger pointing
Create media centers for national whining, and do you know what they do best whine on radio and TV
More and more and more and more and more and more and more and more whining
More and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more whining
Tea Party increased whining.

During the Dark Ages and the Bubonic Plague, Conservative whining decreased, not enough to measure the change, but these times were consistent with their 'do nothing but whine philosophy,' and thus were the best times for conservatism.


More proof below:

A Short History of Conservative Obstruction to Progress | Conceptual Guerilla

What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong with It?

A Progressive that believes in principles that didn't work when they were tried 90 years ago is talking like we're backwards.

That's rich.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Our founding fatherrs were the most extreme liberals of their day...

Imagine actually believing that "All men are created equal" in a day when royalty ruled by basis of their bloodlines and order of birth?

Imagine creating a country where a poor, illiterate laborer receives the same vote as the most wealthy citizen?


Liberal thought has improved this country since its founding

Imagine actually believing that "All men are created equal" in a day when royalty ruled by basis of their bloodlines and order of birth?


and yet they had slaves......

Imagine creating a country where a poor, illiterate laborer receives the same vote as the most wealthy citizen?


yea as long as they were white and owned land.......

You know, I really get tired of this faux-moral superiority and it's accompanying outright lie. It never ceases to amaze me that leftsts - and sadly, some others - can be so pig-stupid and lacking in common sense and perspective as to believe that 250 years of hindsight makes one an inherently better person.

It's easy to sit in a modern, technological society and sententiously mouth platitudes about, "Slavery is evil. Any decent person knows that." The question is, what proof do you have that you would have said the same thing if you had been born in the 1700s, when slavery was not only legal, but had been an accepted part of human history up to that point?

As far as "white and owned land", it's good to know that at least the same leftists who promote our failing school districts are also sending their children to them, as evidenced by this sort of appalling ignorance. Free blacks in the 18th century could and did vote; they could even hold office in some states. The property ownership part is true, but on the other hand, that was pretty easy to do, even for poor people.

 

[daveman]

A Progressive that believes in principles that didn't work when they were tried 90 years ago is talking like we're backwards.

That's rich.

"The reason the Soviet Union failed is because America always interfered! It never got a fair chance to succeed! When we try it here, with US in charge, it'll work great! No, really!"

 

[Cecilie1200]

We'll forgo the filth to address the meat of this. if you don't mind Frank

first off, we're celebrating our independence today

so those 'veterans' reponsible lived in the late 1700's

now i do believe we should be thankful that they stood their ground, and against what was a formidable , if not hardened Bitt army

yet in step with this thread, they were seen as the terrorists of the day.

somebody hadda say it.....

~S~

Really? So the cold war Vet who kept the Russians at bay should not be thanked? The Vets who are fighting muslims who want to change our way of life and our political system should also not be thanked? Is that what you mean?

No, they weren't born yet, nor did those conflicts yet exist

please keep the 4th's terms as applied to the OP in the context of the timeframe

thanx

~S~

Independence Day isn't just about the Founding Generation that gave us our freedom. It's also about all the successive generations who fought to retain it.

Who are you to tell anyone who they can and can't thank for their freedom on Independence Day?

 

[Cecilie1200]

So, just so I am straight on this - our Founding Father's - Liberals, according to the OP - who owned slaves, believed in God, MINIMAL government, slaughtered Indians - and would probably castrate and boil in oil a "queer" in the public square, are the model to which today's Liberal admires.

Got it.

Thanks.

Ain't it grand? The sheer irony... claim the Founders were just a bunch of old, white, racist homophobes were.. and wait for it... LIBERAL.

That's just fucking priceless.

Where does Thomas Paine fit into your sophomoric analysis?

You mean the same Thomas Paine who tried desperately to make excuses for the French Revolution . . . until they threw his ass in prison and tried to behead him? THAT Thomas Paine?

Not exactly the brightest light in the heavens, there.

 

[Avatar4321]

Our founding fatherrs were the most extreme liberals of their day...

Imagine actually believing that "All men are created equal" in a day when royalty ruled by basis of their bloodlines and order of birth?

Imagine creating a country where a poor, illiterate laborer receives the same vote as the most wealthy citizen?


Liberal thought has improved this country since its founding

Imagine actually believing that "All men are created equal" in a day when royalty ruled by basis of their bloodlines and order of birth?


and yet they had slaves......

Imagine creating a country where a poor, illiterate laborer receives the same vote as the most wealthy citizen?


yea as long as they were white and owned land.......

You know, I really get tired of this faux-moral superiority and it's accompanying outright lie. It never ceases to amaze me that leftsts - and sadly, some others - can be so pig-stupid and lacking in common sense and perspective as to believe that 250 years of hindsight makes one an inherently better person.

It's easy to sit in a modern, technological society and sententiously mouth platitudes about, "Slavery is evil. Any decent person knows that." The question is, what proof do you have that you would have said the same thing if you had been born in the 1700s, when slavery was not only legal, but had been an accepted part of human history up to that point?

As far as "white and owned land", it's good to know that at least the same leftists who promote our failing school districts are also sending their children to them, as evidenced by this sort of appalling ignorance. Free blacks in the 18th century could and did vote; they could even hold office in some states. The property ownership part is true, but on the other hand, that was pretty easy to do, even for poor people.

Heck, some free blacks owned slaves at one point. Originally it was not a institution based on race.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Remember conservatives were against the French Revolution while liberals were for it.

Yea, executing rich people just because they were born rich... that's a liberal stance.

Ask today's French what they think of their revolution.

You're really not terribly well read about world history, are ya?

Oh, you mean he thought being against the French Revolution was a BAD thing? I thought he was throwing conservatives a compliment.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Really? So the cold war Vet who kept the Russians at bay should not be thanked? The Vets who are fighting muslims who want to change our way of life and our political system should also not be thanked? Is that what you mean?

No, they weren't born yet, nor did those conflicts yet exist

please keep the 4th's terms as applied to the OP in the context of the timeframe

thanx

~S~

Independence Day isn't just about the Founding Generation that gave us our freedom. It's also about all the successive generations who fought to retain it.

Who are you to tell anyone who they can and can't thank for their freedom on Independence Day?

You know how a car sounds when it's spark knocking? Well thats sparky. he's missing 3 plugs out of 4

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Remember conservatives were against the French Revolution while liberals were for it.

Yea, executing rich people just because they were born rich... that's a liberal stance.

Ask today's French what they think of their revolution.

You're really not terribly well read about world history, are ya?

Yep that liberals for you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are in the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution

Like most extreme rightwing rigid Constitutionalists, you know very little about the document that you worship

It is rather astounding how often rightwing rigid Constitutionalists make glaring errors in their posts. Historical errors, errors of misinterpretation of law and the Constitution, math errors regarding taxes, the list goes on.

I see in a post above that someone claims that women had the right to vote taken away from them at the turn of the 18th to 19th century? Hmm, that's a new one!

"Women were able to vote after the revolution. It was the subsequent generation who thought that the women were voting for the wrong party who then took away the vote from them in around the turn of the 19th century."

I recall reading the biography of John Adams in the not too too distant past, and Abigail Adams, John's wife, was singular among women pushing her husband to grant voting rights to women. Adams was the SECOND President of the USA, between 1797-1801. That would be precisely "around the turn of the 19th century". There had only been three Presidential elections when Adams took office.

With the exception of a few isolated local elections in colonial and post colonial America, the only state where women had a right to vote in general elections was New Jersey, where blacks and immigrants also were granted voting rights by the state constitution of NJ. It was "taken away" by a New Jersey law in 1807 when the franchise was restricted to white males, ostensibly, to combat electoral fraud by simplifying the conditions for eligibility. There is no record of "women were voting for the wrong party" as was contended above. In 1807, political parties were in their infancy, and there were no unions nor labor movements.

As for the rest of the states, women were allowed to vote in local elections ONLY in a relative few until the 1860's, when a very few states allowed women to vote in national elections. Wyoming territory was the first to allow this. Thus the many STATES were restricting the franchise for women, and it took decades and decades of women's activism and an Amendment to the US Constitution (#19, in 1920,fifty seven years after slaves were freed), to remove a restriction upon women's franchise, (right to vote).

Facts are so easily accessible, and it's rather funny how some folks refuse to research out facts, choosing instead to blatantly post misinformation as fact. I wonder which News Channel they watch.

So what you're saying is that women weren't allowed to vote, except for those occasions when they were allowed to vote?

Brilliant.

 

[Political Junky]

Yea, executing rich people just because they were born rich... that's a liberal stance.

Ask today's French what they think of their revolution.

You're really not terribly well read about world history, are ya?

I think you might benefit from reading that history, yourself.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Our founding fatherrs were the most extreme liberals of their day...

Imagine actually believing that "All men are created equal" in a day when royalty ruled by basis of their bloodlines and order of birth?

Imagine creating a country where a poor, illiterate laborer receives the same vote as the most wealthy citizen?


Liberal thought has improved this country since its founding

Imagine actually believing that "All men are created equal" in a day when royalty ruled by basis of their bloodlines and order of birth?


and yet they had slaves......

Imagine creating a country where a poor, illiterate laborer receives the same vote as the most wealthy citizen?


yea as long as they were white and owned land.......

You know, I really get tired of this faux-moral superiority and it's accompanying outright lie. It never ceases to amaze me that leftsts - and sadly, some others - can be so pig-stupid and lacking in common sense and perspective as to believe that 250 years of hindsight makes one an inherently better person.

It's easy to sit in a modern, technological society and sententiously mouth platitudes about, "Slavery is evil. Any decent person knows that." The question is, what proof do you have that you would have said the same thing if you had been born in the 1700s, when slavery was not only legal, but had been an accepted part of human history up to that point?

As far as "white and owned land", it's good to know that at least the same leftists who promote our failing school districts are also sending their children to them, as evidenced by this sort of appalling ignorance. Free blacks in the 18th century could and did vote; they could even hold office in some states. The property ownership part is true, but on the other hand, that was pretty easy to do, even for poor people.

are you slapping me or RW?.....or both of us?......

 

[Cecilie1200]

Thank you for polarizing this country.

Thank you for driving up the price of energy.

Thank you for using confusing regulations as road-blocks to job growth.

Thank you for ending the American Dream.

Thank you for forcing businesses to look elsewhere for cheap labor.

Thank you for taking my retirement and giving it to your worthless voters.

Thank you for turning our friends into enemies.

Thank you for apologizing to our enemies.

And thank you for making everything worse.

On the other hand, I do appreciate the marvelously bad example they set, to remind the rest of us what happens when one gets lazy and stupid.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Imagine actually believing that "All men are created equal" in a day when royalty ruled by basis of their bloodlines and order of birth?


and yet they had slaves......

Imagine creating a country where a poor, illiterate laborer receives the same vote as the most wealthy citizen?


yea as long as they were white and owned land.......

You know, I really get tired of this faux-moral superiority and it's accompanying outright lie. It never ceases to amaze me that leftsts - and sadly, some others - can be so pig-stupid and lacking in common sense and perspective as to believe that 250 years of hindsight makes one an inherently better person.

It's easy to sit in a modern, technological society and sententiously mouth platitudes about, "Slavery is evil. Any decent person knows that." The question is, what proof do you have that you would have said the same thing if you had been born in the 1700s, when slavery was not only legal, but had been an accepted part of human history up to that point?

As far as "white and owned land", it's good to know that at least the same leftists who promote our failing school districts are also sending their children to them, as evidenced by this sort of appalling ignorance. Free blacks in the 18th century could and did vote; they could even hold office in some states. The property ownership part is true, but on the other hand, that was pretty easy to do, even for poor people.

Heck, some free blacks owned slaves at one point. Originally it was not a institution based on race.

Well, in fairness, a lot of the blacks who owned slaves only did it theoretically, because the laws where they were forbade wholesale emancipation of slaves. A number of Quakers also technically owned slaves, in order to allow them to live as more or less free people in practice.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yea, executing rich people just because they were born rich... that's a liberal stance.

Ask today's French what they think of their revolution.

You're really not terribly well read about world history, are ya?

I think you might benefit from reading that history, yourself.

Do enlighten us as to what YOU think the history of the French Revolution was. I'm fascinated.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Imagine actually believing that "All men are created equal" in a day when royalty ruled by basis of their bloodlines and order of birth?


and yet they had slaves......

Imagine creating a country where a poor, illiterate laborer receives the same vote as the most wealthy citizen?


yea as long as they were white and owned land.......

You know, I really get tired of this faux-moral superiority and it's accompanying outright lie. It never ceases to amaze me that leftsts - and sadly, some others - can be so pig-stupid and lacking in common sense and perspective as to believe that 250 years of hindsight makes one an inherently better person.

It's easy to sit in a modern, technological society and sententiously mouth platitudes about, "Slavery is evil. Any decent person knows that." The question is, what proof do you have that you would have said the same thing if you had been born in the 1700s, when slavery was not only legal, but had been an accepted part of human history up to that point?

As far as "white and owned land", it's good to know that at least the same leftists who promote our failing school districts are also sending their children to them, as evidenced by this sort of appalling ignorance. Free blacks in the 18th century could and did vote; they could even hold office in some states. The property ownership part is true, but on the other hand, that was pretty easy to do, even for poor people.

are you slapping me or RW?.....or both of us?......

Pretty much anyone who wants to airily dismiss the Founding Fathers as "slave owners", or claim that only white men could vote. Whatever flaws they or their society had, they had an ability to think outside the box and outside their social conditioning that very few people today could hope to match.

 

[St.Blues]

I have never thanked a liberal.. I have no reason too. I can assure you no liberal will ever thank me either.

 

[The T]

Remember conservatives were against the French Revolution while liberals were for it.

Yea, executing rich people just because they were born rich... that's a liberal stance.

Ask today's French what they think of their revolution.

You're really not terribly well read about world history, are ya?

Yep that liberals for you.

I've stopped referring to them as Liberals or progressives. They're Statists.

 

[Harry Dresden]

You know, I really get tired of this faux-moral superiority and it's accompanying outright lie. It never ceases to amaze me that leftsts - and sadly, some others - can be so pig-stupid and lacking in common sense and perspective as to believe that 250 years of hindsight makes one an inherently better person.

It's easy to sit in a modern, technological society and sententiously mouth platitudes about, "Slavery is evil. Any decent person knows that." The question is, what proof do you have that you would have said the same thing if you had been born in the 1700s, when slavery was not only legal, but had been an accepted part of human history up to that point?

As far as "white and owned land", it's good to know that at least the same leftists who promote our failing school districts are also sending their children to them, as evidenced by this sort of appalling ignorance. Free blacks in the 18th century could and did vote; they could even hold office in some states. The property ownership part is true, but on the other hand, that was pretty easy to do, even for poor people.

are you slapping me or RW?.....or both of us?......

Pretty much anyone who wants to airily dismiss the Founding Fathers as "slave owners", or claim that only white men could vote. Whatever flaws they or their society had, they had an ability to think outside the box and outside their social conditioning that very few people today could hope to match.

ok......but what i said was the truth of the times.....like it or not......thats the way it was back then....you had to be a White land owner to vote.....and why say all men are equal when you had men as slaves,and very few at that time fought to end that......

 

[Skull Pilot]

To compare our revolutionary founders to today's so called liberals is beyond idiotic and skirts the realm of the moronic.