Zone1 It's quite easy to see why most people end up in Hell (as Jesus said)

[Batcat]

I grew up in a devoutly a Lutheran (LCMS) family. My life experiences have pushed me away from the Abrahamic God, in all His forms. Especially his New Testament form.

Personally, I found the Old Testament God tougher than the New Testament Jesus.

Perhaps that is why preachers don’t always ;push their congregation to actually read the Bible.

 

[Anathema]

Personally, I found the Old Testament God tougher than the New Testament Jesus

That’s why I like tge OT God far better than the NT God. He’s honest about being a nasty asshole, unlike his lying SOB of a Son.

 

[Anathema]

Being in the Real Presence of Christ in His Church works.. which is not to say that my life is a bowl of pit-less cherries, sunshine and kittens. But this life and all its difficulties passes away. Are we true to Christ until the end? that is all that matters.

Not all of us are capable (or willing) to wait until the absolute end of things for the proverbial “cookie”. For some of us turning the other cheek just to have that one roundhouse kicked by Chuck Norris just like the first one was, in hopes of some far off, uncertain trophy isn’t an acceptable way to go through life.

 

[Meriweather]

Not all of us are capable (or willing) to wait until the absolute end of things for the proverbial “cookie”. For some of us turning the other cheek just to have that one roundhouse kicked by Chuck Norris just like the first one was, in hopes of some far off, uncertain trophy isn’t an acceptable way to go through life.

While I understand it is not the way you see it, do keep in mind that some do not follow Jesus' teachings for the "cookie" in the next life. Some of us have found this life a world of hurt and want to know how to get through the day--how to travel through life now.

The teachings of Jesus on how to face and walk through this life have made a world of difference when facing a world of hurt. And...in pretty much the same manner as the Old Testament advises.

We're in good hands.

 

[Anathema]

While I understand it is not the way you see it, do keep in mind that some do not follow Jesus' teachings for the "cookie" in the next life. Some of us have found this life a world of hurt and want to know how to get through the day--how to travel through life now

My 49+ years of existence (I won’t call it life) have been nothing but pain, hurt and loss. Hell, from the moment of my conception, if you want to be honest. In my view it was God/Jesus who were the cause of the problems and in the 27 years I followed that theology they failed to provide any reprieve.

If it works for you, wonderful. I’m glad you found something that works for you. Just please don’t sell it as a cure-all, because It isn’t.

 

[Meriweather]

If it works for you, wonderful. I’m glad you found something that works for you. Just please don’t sell it as a cure-all, because It isn’t.

Truly, my only point is that many of us aren't looking for the "cookie" at the end of life. As I said at the beginning, I understand that is not the way you see Jesus/Christianity.

Cure-all? Now that is funny!

 

[Anathema]

Truly, my only point is that many of us aren't looking for the "cookie" at the end of life

I thought that was the whole point of religion in general and Christianity specifically.

Cure-all? Now that is funny!

Christianity, and religion in general are most definitely not cure-alls. That’s what they’re SUPPOSED to be, but that is their biggest lie… thst your God gives a fuck-all about you yesterday, today, tomorrow or any day.

 

[Care4all]

Jesus is Truth Incarnate. We can believe every Word He said (which includes all that He has said via the Bible AND via His Church throughout the centuries, which may or may not be written down in black and white but is of course true just the same)

So Jesus said that most people end up in Hell (see Mt 7:14- and Lk 13:24 and other psgs)

And I can see why. Everywhere I look today there is nothing but selfishness, snarkyness, love of $$, lack of concern for others.. everyone going against what Jesus taught. He taught us to have charity for one another, but I don't see much charity these days.

And then there's all the perversity, sick stuff being taught in our schools. It's like our society despises children, their innocence. It's like everyone is in such a hurry to steal that innocence from them.. WHY?!

Well, I think we know why.. "People loved darkness rather than the light..."

etc

Matthew 7:14 In-Context​

12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples​

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders​

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

-------
NOTE! my opinion is merely a layman's point of view, simply a parishioner view with no authority!
This is red letter right? Christ is the one that is actually Speaking.... Gospel...

In my opinion and in context and along with the passages immediately before and afterwards in Matthew 7 are a warning, but it is a heads up to us about false prophets and disciples within the Church, and a warning to the false prophets, preaching in Christ's name, but not following what Christ really taught about the Father's true intent and meaning of the law, and that without repentance and changing their false teachings of Jesus Christ and foremost, GOD, they will NOT make it through that straight and narrow gate in to Heaven, regardless of their claim of being Christians,

and the theory of "once saved, ALWAYS saved" is basically bunk....

Or in some cases it appears that the Scripture conflicts, which will take further Scripture to clarify.

These church leaders and alleged disciples, are wolves in sheep clothing... You will know them, by their fruit. And they will be cast in to the Lake of fire.... The ones who claim to be Christians, followers of Christ's teachings....which are simply clarifications of God's teachings in a means for people to humanly understand.... The liars within the Church that are leading others in the Church, astray with falsities. imo.

 

[Meriweather]

I thought that was the whole point of religion in general and Christianity specifically.

No. Some non-Catholic Christian faiths do stress this. However, Catholic and Orthodox still have strong roots in Judaism which stresses that keeping to the ways of God is all about the best way to live THIS life.

Jesus stressed that living in God's kingdom is within our reach in our present life and will extend into the afterlife. His teachings were about living in God's kingdom right here, right now. We find these teachings in the Old Testament as well.

Jews are much better at keeping this truth at the forefront of their lives than even Catholics and Orthodox.

 

[Anathema]

No. Some non-Catholic Christian faiths do stress this. However, Catholic and Orthodox still have strong roots in Judaism which stresses that keeping to the ways of God is all about the best way to live THIS life.

Jesus stressed that living in God's kingdom is within our reach in our present life and will extend into the afterlife. His teachings were about living in God's kingdom right here, right now. We find these teachings in the Old Testament as well

Interesting. LCMS teaching is that “By Faith Alone are We Saved”. Therefore, while they try to live a good life, they are doomed to fail, and so long as they maintain their Faith, honestly confess and receive absolution for their sins, it’s all good.

Personally, I don’t believe in forgiveness. I believe the Soul carries those stains for your entire life, until you are Judged at the moment of death. Then the Soul is either Elevated, Condemned or Recycled.

 

[Meriweather]

Interesting. LCMS teaching is that “By Faith Alone are We Saved”. Therefore, while they try to live a good life, they are doomed to fail, and so long as they maintain their Faith, honestly confess and receive absolution for their sins, it’s all good.

It seems many non-Catholic Christians believe if they have faith they will go to heaven, they will go to heaven. Who is to say they won't.

However, for many it is having faith that if we follow Jesus' teachings, we are living in the ways of the Kingdom of God right here on earth. God's Kingdom is eternal and carries on as we pass from this life to the next. This way is a continual focus on turning away (repentance) from wrong-doing and towards obedience to God.

Sometimes I get the feeling from non-Catholic Christians that turning away from sin/wrong-doing isn't all that important if one has faith Christ already paid the penalty for all their sins because they will enter the kingdom after they die. They have absolute faith that this is what Christ meant and why it is necessary to believe this in order to enter into heaven.

I liken these two views of those who choose to work in the vineyard from the dawning of their life until sunset and those who enter in at the last possible moment. Both are equally welcome. The reason I like going to work in the vineyard at dawn is because why not meet the Master of the Vineyard now? Why wait?

 

[Meriweather]

Personally, I don’t believe in forgiveness. I believe the Soul Carrie’s those stains for your entire life, until you are Judged at the moment of death. Then the Soul is either Elevated, Condemned or Recycled.

So many Commandments/teachings are for our benefit in this life. When we can forgive anyone who has hurt us, our own healing begins.

As for our own sins: Scripture tells us that when we turn away from the sin we committed, when we change our hearts about committing that sin and turn to something better, we are free of that sin, it is remembered no more.

That being said, there are so many times we are hurt--and that we hurt others--without even knowing we caused the hurt. My gravest concern is all the hurts I have caused others without even knowing I hurt them! I consider my own hurts in that same light, and that is why our forgiveness of others helps in our own healing. Scripture teaches as we forgive, so are we forgiven...which means our own forgiveness of others may also end in their forgiving--and their own healing.

 

[Anathema]

So many Commandments/teachings are for our benefit in this life. When we can forgive anyone who has hurt us, our own healing begins

I don’t think our forgiveness is meaningful. If I ignore or “forgive” someone for saying/doing something inappropriate to me has zero influence on whether that act is held against them when their Soul is judged. I believe ALL improprieties are held against us at that moment of Judgement.

 

[Meriweather]

I don’t think our forgiveness is meaningful. If I ignore or “forgive” someone for saying/doing something inappropriate to me has zero influence on whether that act is held against them when their Soul is judged. I believe ALL improprieties are held against us at that moment of Judgement.

Do you also believe the least that we do is also credited?

 

[Anathema]

o you also believe the least that we do is also credited?

No I do not. The way I see the Soul can best be described is similar to author Piers Anthony’s vision of it. I see the Soul starting as a plain, perfectly white model of a person. As we move through life our improper thoughts, words and deeds leave stains of different sizes and shades of darkness on that form. At the end of our life the percentage of coverage and shade is measured to determine the quality of the life lived by thst Soul. The Soul is then Elevated, Condemned, or Recycled.

 

[Meriweather]

No I do not. The way I see the Soul can best be described is similar to author Piers Anthony’s vision of it. I see the Soul starting as a plain, perfectly white model of a person. As we move through life our improper thoughts, words and deeds leave stains of different sizes and shades of darkness on that form. At the end of our life the percentage of coverage and shade is measured to determine the quality of the life lived by thst Soul. The Soul is then Elevated, Condemned, or Recycled.

Sounds grim

 

[Anathema]

Sounds grim

Somewhat. I’d guess about 80% of Souls get re-educated and Recycled (sent back here to try again).

 

[Batcat]

That’s why I like tge OT God far better than the NT God. He’s honest about being a nasty asshole, unlike his lying SOB of a Son.

I was wondering why you liked the OT God more.

I resolved my issues with the OT God by learning about covenants. If you are interested, the following links summarize the concept.

My belief in God increased exponentially after a disaster happened in my life. I needed a crutch to help me. I feel praying with Jesus and asking for strength delivered that crutch. The alternative was alcohol.

I drink in moderation but not to make the pain of tragedy go away. Heavy drinking is a form of suicide. I have witnessed people who chose that route and no matter how much they drank, their pain always returned.

The New Covenant: Does It Abolish God's Law?

Does the New Covenant negate God's law and do away with any need to obey the Ten Commandments and other laws of God? The belief that it does has long been a popular teaching in traditional Christianity. We'll thoroughly examine this question in this booklet. Even more important, we'll address...

www.ucg.org

Why is God so different in the Old Testament than He is in the New Testament? | GotQuestions.org

Why is God so different in the Old Testament than He is in the New Testament? Why is God so angry in the Old Testament and so peaceful in the New Testament?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[themirrorthief]

I was wondering why you liked the OT God more.

I resolved my issues with the OT God by learning about covenants. If you are interested, the following links summarize the concept.

My belief in God increased exponentially after a disaster happened in my life. I needed a crutch to help me. I feel praying with Jesus and asking for strength delivered that crutch. The alternative was alcohol.

I drink in moderation but not to make the pain of tragedy go away. Heavy drinking is a form of suicide. I have witnessed people who chose that route and no matter how much they drank, their pain always returned.

The New Covenant: Does It Abolish God's Law?

Does the New Covenant negate God's law and do away with any need to obey the Ten Commandments and other laws of God? The belief that it does has long been a popular teaching in traditional Christianity. We'll thoroughly examine this question in this booklet. Even more important, we'll address...

www.ucg.org

Why is God so different in the Old Testament than He is in the New Testament? | GotQuestions.org

Why is God so different in the Old Testament than He is in the New Testament? Why is God so angry in the Old Testament and so peaceful in the New Testament?

www.gotquestions.org

there is no hell and if there was, what is the point in trying to burn a ghost

 

[Batcat]

there is no hell and if there was, what is the point in trying to burn a ghost

Once again, if you are interested, I have provided links about this subject.

One of the big problems with our Bible is the translation of different words.

What Are Some of the Key Issues Involved with Translating the Bible? by Don Stewart

Don Stewart :: What Are Some of the Key Issues Involved with Translating the Bible?

www.blueletterbible.org

What does the word hell mean in the Bible?

Hell in the Bible The word "hell" appears in the Bible 54 times and is translated from several different words with various meanings, as indicated below: In the Old Testament: 31 times from “Sheol,” which means the “grave.” In

bibleask.org

Hell is a subject about which there is a LOT of disagreement. Most agree that it would not be a nice place to live an eternity. The religious scholar in the following link is an atheist.