Zone1 I've been an atheist for 60 years and have never once been tempted to believe in any god

[Meriweather]

There is no difference between miracles and magic.

I recommend studying both more in depth, but only if you are truly interested in either.. There is a world of difference.

 

[Couchpotato]

When I was 10 years old, we had a dog named Silver. A sealyham - sort of a largish Westie. He had been struck by a car when I was much younger and that had left him blind in one eye. We adapted. He adapted. But whenever he entered an unfamiliar space (the furniture moved, for instance) he would collide with things. I felt bad for him. Like most children my age I believed what I was told was the truth by my parents and the church they took me to. So I prayed as fervently and selflessly as I could manage that God would restore his vision. But, as would happen in any bad movie, his poor vision led Silver to wandering out in front of another car where he suffered another concussion which left him completely blind. Now all dogs go to heaven because all dogs are innocent. Every non-human form of life is innocent of the many sins the Bible spells out. Initially, I was angry. How could God cause my innocent dog to suffer, regardless of his motive or intent? The standard "mysterious ways" line didn't help at all. What did help was the realization that the best explanation was not that god was mysterious or unknowable, but that he simply wasn't there. The existence of the god described by the Bible and by our preacher and the believers I would talk with was simply not possible; not only because it violated all the laws of nature but because absolutely no evidence I could find supported the idea. Every thing I could learn about the world and how it worked refuted the idea of a caring, personal god who had created miraculous humans and a miraculous Earth to be their home and was everpresent, watching over us and, on proper supplication, violating the laws that he himself had set in place - if he felt like it.

As the years went by I simply became more and more convinced that there is a great deal about the working of the universe we do not yet know, but the basics - the principal of uniformitarianism, holds, everywhere and everywhen. Nothing is supernatural. No will directs or inspires the stream of events taking place over the passage of time. Only physics.

What signs or signals should I have caught that might have lured me back to my childhood faith? And how might my life have been different had I done so? I have lots of friends and I'm pretty sure most of them think I'm a nice guy. I buy fully and heartily into the Golden Rule. I believe it to be the sole basis of human civilization. How do you think my complete lack of divine faith hurt me? Will your god throw into a lake of fire because I led a good life but failed to do him obeisance? That is, of course, precisely what scriptures tells us. Why would ANY of you believe, much less WORSHIP such a god? He seems a monster. Would anyone care to correct me?

Dogs do not go to heaven they don’t have a soul.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Absolutely. This is what makes it so hard for those with true experiences to make much of an impact. In so many ways the liars are so charismatic while many others, like Moses, have speech impediments, aren't much to look at, and don't want a thing, but for others to know the love of God.

Can you find a "true experience"?

Humans are people who have schizophrenia, who dream, who imagine all sorts of things.

An ex of mine had a friend and he got told by God that he'd pass all his exams. So he didn't study, and failed them all.

A true experience?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Religion did not hold morality back, on the contrary it helped spread those values.

It absolutely did. It crushed hellenistic thought and squashed reason for a millennium. At least. Our superior morality and modern society evolved quite in spite of religion.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Dogs do not go to heaven they don’t have a soul.

Well of course not, souls don't exist.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I recommend studying both more in depth, but only if you are truly interested in either.. There is a world of difference.

No there isn't. Not a lick of difference. Supernatural nonsense, the whole lot.

 

[Insaneworld]

Of course people get something from religion. Else they would discard it.

And that mostly comes down to believing in living forever.

I think you're right that it comes down to 'living forever' a lot of the time.

That said, I don't believe it's the only thing attracting people. At least as far the beliefs themselves, spiritual beliefs can offer a way of coping with the problem of evil, in some sense. That's what has motivated my own 'search' for God.

 

[Couchpotato]

No there isn't. Not a lick of difference. Supernatural nonsense, the whole lot.

Good luck with that.

 

[ding]

I think you're right that it comes down to 'living forever' a lot of the time.

That said, I don't believe it's the only thing attracting people. At least as far the beliefs themselves, spiritual beliefs can offer a way of coping with the problem of evil, in some sense. That's what has motivated my own 'search' for God.

It's the only agency which exists that can do that. Where there is suffering, there will be hope.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That said, I don't believe it's the only thing attracting people.

Not the only thing.

Just like the game isn't the only thing that attracts people to watch the superbollwl.

But... no game... no superbowl...

No promise of living forever... then no Christianity.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I recommend studying both more in depth, but only if you are truly interested in either.. There is a world of difference.

Yeah, miracles are totally made up but passed off as real, whereas magic.... is either little tricks or deliberately fiction.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Good luck with that.

I don't need luck. Neither do you.

Just perform a magical miracle in a controlled setting.

Show the world you're NOT dumb! Not like everyone says!

Show us we are wrong.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yeah, miracles are totally made up but passed off as real, whereas magic.... is either little tricks or deliberately fiction.

Not so at all. Dragons are magical. People believed in them.

Fairies are magical. People believed in them.

Miracles are magical. Peolle beieve in them.

 

[Insaneworld]

It absolutely did. It crushed hellenistic thought and squashed reason for a millennium. At least. Our superior morality and modern society evolved quite in spite of religion.

Hellenistic times were hardly moral... This was a time of widespread slavery, endless war, and on and on. Jesus gained much appeal among common people BECAUSE of His message of morality, His message that an individual's suffering, even a slave's, mattered.

Heck, I recall this famous quote, from those same Hellenistic times: '...since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must'. This was not a time of morality, and Jesus and His message (along with other religious figures) helped to improve those societies morally.

 

[Couchpotato]

I don't need luck. Neither do you.

Just perform a magical miracle in a controlled setting.

Show the qrld you're NOT dumb! Not like everyone says!

Show us we are wrong.

You are correct I don’t need luck. And no amount of luck is going to help you sadly.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Hellenistic times were hardly moral...

But the superior basis of reason led to bettermorality eventually. And would have done so much sooner, if not for ancient mythologies.

Try to remember, you're making a moral case for ancient mythologiesthat gave instructions for slavery and read women as property and infidels as subhuman.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You are correct I don’t need luck. And no amount of luck is going to help you sadly.

Great!

Then get your happy ass in a controlled setting and show us a miracle.

Or keep babbling like a child.

 

[Couchpotato]

Great!

Then get your happy ass in a controlled setting and show us a miracle.

Or keep babbling like a child.

When did I say I could perform a miracle in any setting?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

When did I say I could perform a miracle in any setting?

Then ask someone else. I'm whittling away your excuses one by one. Present another. I will whittle that one away, too.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Not so at all. Dragons are magical. People believed in them.

Fairies are magical. People believed in them.

Miracles are magical. Peolle beieve in them.

I'm not sure if people ever believed hat dragons were real. Usually they're just a part of a story. I'd say fairies are the same.

I'm sure some people believed, but there are always some. And for kids, well, often these things are in stories and kids believe their fantasies.

But there literally wasn't a person, like a priest, standing up every Sunday saying "beware of the dragons".