Zone1 I've been an atheist for 60 years and have never once been tempted to believe in any god

[Couchpotato]

Then ask someone else. I'm whittling away your excuses one by one. Present another. I will whittle that one away, too.

What excuses? What have I made an excuse for? Not being able to do something I never said I could do?

 

[Insaneworld]

Not the only thing.

Just like the game isn't the only thing that attracts people to watch the superbollwl.

But... no game... no superbowl...

No promise of living forever... then no Christianity.

I think it is true, a promise of life after death is probably needed to truly move masses. But your analogy to the superbowl leaves a lot out...

Many of the major figures pushing the religion forward saw their beliefs philosophically, and also tried to contend with the problem of evil using their faith. People like Aquinas were truly brilliant, and extremely well read, they were looking for deeper understanding of their world. For a person who already kind of derides religion and faith (which I assume you do), your view is enough, but it's faulty understanding at best in my view.

 

[ding]

Can you find a "true experience"?

Humans are people who have schizophrenia, who dream, who imagine all sorts of things.

An ex of mine had a friend and he got told by God that he'd pass all his exams. So he didn't study, and failed them all.

A true experience?

Easy. Create something. We are happiest when we use our talents to create. Treat it as a sacred act. Do it as a sign of appreciation for receiving the rarest gift in existence. Pour yourself into it losing all consciousness of self. Live in the present. Have no preference for an outcome. Let it be. Be thankful, pray, meditate, self reflect, perform random acts of kindness. All of which will work to switch on the learning centers of the mind and allow one to see reality. You want a true experience? See reality. These are the steps that are required.

 

[Insaneworld]

But the superior basis of reason led to bettermorality eventually. And would have done so much sooner, if not for ancient mythologies.

Try to remember, you're making a moral case for ancient mythologiesthat gave instructions for slavery and read women as property and infidels as subhuman.

Did it? We have one history to judge from, and it includes religion. Reason did not lead to morality any more than Religion did. Both have contributed positively to it, however. AND negatively too.

Slavery existed far before organized religion. As did misogyny. You should look into history more.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I'm not sure if people ever believed hat dragons were real.

I can assure you that they did. Same for fairies.

And demons. And leprechauns. And unicorns, and winged horses.

But there literally wasn't a person, like a priest, standing up every Sunday saying "beware of the dragons".

I assure you that there was. It was taught both to worship AND fear them.

Remind you of anything?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Did it?

Absolutely.

Religion had to be displaced by superior, secular ideas.

Like classical liberalism, evidence based thought, and secular government.

All quite in spite of religion.

Try to remember: we had religion for 400,000 years.

Then refined reason came along. Things sure starting happening, then?

And I am supposed to credit religion for that? Please.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What excuses? What have I made an excuse for? Not being able to do something I never said I could do?

For why nobody can demonstrate a miracle. Come on man, you can puzzle this stuff out.

Hint: it's the same reason nobody can fly to Mars and back using a piece of cardboard.

Because it's supernatural nonsense. I.E., magic.

 

[Insaneworld]

Absolutely.

Religion had to be displayed by superior, secular ideas.

Like classical liberalism, evidence based thought, and secular government.

All quite in spite of religion.

Try to remember: we had religion for 400,000 years.

400,000 years? Really? We had religion for that long?

Lmao, okay. I think that does it then.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

400,000 years? Really? We had religion for that long?

Yes indeed, in the sense of believing and even worshiping entities. It's basically the side effect of our own sentience. We attributed agency to everything. Mr. Wind and Mr. Tree and Miss Ocean. Absolutely.

Of course organized religion came later.

As we... organized. Coincidence? No.

We didn't learn how to farm crops or build aqueducts or treat illness by availing ourselves of divined knowledge. We used reason.

If only religion, then we would still be foraging for nuts and berries and spearing ungulates for dinner.

If only reason and no religion... we would probably be even more advanced than we are now.

Religion is an inevitable side effect of our own sentience. Every child wants to believe. People want to believe. ESPECIALLY in living forever

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But if you balk at 400,000 years, we can just go back 10,000 years.

The point remains strong.

 

[Couchpotato]

For why nobody can demonstrate a miracle. Come on man, you can puzzle this stuff out.

Hint: it's the same reason nobody can fly to Mars and back using a piece of cardboard.

Because it's supernatural nonsense. I.E., magic.

When did I say anyone could perform a miracle?


I need you to show me you can fly. Go jump out a window…..

 

[MarathonMike]

Judaism has much to offer.

Since Christianity and Judaism are so closely related, it is very interesting to compare the two. The obvious divergence is the Christian belief that the true God was God's "son" the immaculately conceived Jesus. As I understand it, Judaism teaches God is of one form and unknowable to man. I'm no expert and I'm sure someone will be along to correct me.

 

[Insaneworld]

But if you balk at 400,000 years, we can just go back 10,000 years.

The point remains strong.

I balk because it's an extremely strong claim, where is your evidence for it? What even is religion in the absence of written and spoken language?

As for the claims that 'reason leads to morality' or to a betterment of it, I bring up a quote I used before, from the Hellenistic period, about a siege by Athens in 400 BC: '...since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must'. These were sophisticated men that put superstition aside, men of reason, and still they got to these amoral conclusions.

My point is not that morality comes from religion, I said as much in my first reply. Instead, it is that reason alone does not lead to morality either, both religion and reason have at times improved our ethics, and they have also been a detriment at other points. That's my point. Our ethics is due to something more fundamental than religion, and it's independent of reason, I think it is to do with empathy and self-awareness, something that we share with many animals.

 

[Couchpotato]

Since Christianity and Judaism are so closely related, it is very interesting to compare the two. The obvious divergence is the Christian belief that the true God was God's "son" the immaculately conceived Jesus. As I understand it, Judaism teaches God is of one form and unknowable to man. I'm no expert and I'm sure someone will be along to correct me.

The Jewish, Christian and Muslim God are the same God.

 

[woodwork201]

There is no such thing as atheism. I have never, in my life, seen someone who proclaims they do not believe in God that weren't so mad at God that they spend their lives attacking a thing that, according to them, does not exist.

Atheists absolutely do believe in God but have hurt feelings because at some point in their lives God answered their prayer in a way that didn't align with what they had hoped for so they are choosing to take their anger out by attacking God.

I do not believe in the Gods of the Asians who inhabited America before Columbus and I do not believe in the Gods of the native African tribes that were worshiped before the arrival of white men - and I have no idea if they still worship, that's why I said it like I did, but I assume that there might be some remote tribes who still do. But, in all cases where I do not believe in the Gods which others worship, I do not make it the focus of my life to criticize or tear down those Gods to the people who believe in them. That's how civilized non-believers act. No, those who make it their life's work to attack God and those who love God are definitely believers.

 

[BackAgain]

Why is it so important to libtard atheists to denigrate the beliefs of others?

Why would they give a fuck if a person happens to believe in God or in miracles?




Does it impact their shallow lives?

 

[frigidweirdo]

I can assure you that they did. Same for fairies.

And demons. And leprechauns. And unicorns, and winged horses.





I assure you that there was. It was taught both to worship AND fear them.

Remind you of anything?

In 2,000 years time they might think we believed Santa Claus was real.

However the distinction I am making is that for miracles they were pushed as the truth, the truth was enforced. With things like fairies and dragons, people may or may not have believed, but the government, the authorities, the church or whoever was in charge, wasn't pushing this as a "truth".

Can you find me an example of the authorities using dragons to scare people?

 

[MarathonMike]

The Jewish, Christian and Muslim God are the same God.

But clearly there is a massive rift between Judaism and Christianity when it comes to Jesus.

 

[Couchpotato]

petro

Did someone lie to you and tell you the movie was real? Sorry but it isn’t.

 

[Couchpotato]

But clearly there is a massive rift between Judaism and Christianity when it comes to Jesus.

One believes he is the Messiah and the other doesn’t. But they both believe in the same triune God. Jesus was a Jew.