Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
By that definition, today's liberals are some of the most un-liberal (or is that illiberal?) people you will encounter.There are a couple examples that I could give as to what you're looking for, but that's not really what people mean when they say the Fathers were "liberal".
"Liberal" and "conservative" have literal meanings that are different from their current political designations.
The founding fathers were "liberal" in the sense that they were "not opposed to new ideas or ways of behaving that are not traditional or widely accepted", and not "conservative" in the sense meaning "not liking or accepting changes or new ideas."
Given that they cling so desperately to a Medicare, Medicaid and Great Society welfare mindset stuck in the 1960s, the New Dealer quasi-socialism rooted in the 1940s, central banking and progressive income taxation rooted in the 19-teens, and an education system rooted in an early Industrial Revolution model, they look more and more like the Torries that the revolutionaries overthrew back in the 18th century.
Read the threadThere are a couple examples that I could give as to what you're looking for, but that's not really what people mean when they say the Fathers were "liberal".
"Liberal" and "conservative" have literal meanings that are different from their current political designations.
The founding fathers were "liberal" in the sense that they were "not opposed to new ideas or ways of behaving that are not traditional or widely accepted", and not "conservative" in the sense meaning "not liking or accepting changes or new ideas."
That's exactly what I mean some liberals on here think the founders are equal to modern day liberals. and would support the policies of modern day liberals.
Who has said that....specifically?
By that definition, today's liberals are some of the most un-liberal (or is that illiberal?) people you will encounter.There are a couple examples that I could give as to what you're looking for, but that's not really what people mean when they say the Fathers were "liberal".
"Liberal" and "conservative" have literal meanings that are different from their current political designations.
The founding fathers were "liberal" in the sense that they were "not opposed to new ideas or ways of behaving that are not traditional or widely accepted", and not "conservative" in the sense meaning "not liking or accepting changes or new ideas."
Given that they cling so desperately to a Medicare, Medicaid and Great Society welfare mindset stuck in the 1960s, the New Dealer quasi-socialism rooted in the 1940s, central banking and progressive income taxation rooted in the 19-teens, and an education system rooted in an early Industrial Revolution model, they look more and more like the Torries that the revolutionaries overthrew back in the 18th century.
That's because what you're talking about there is leftism, not Liberalism.
The OP makes the same mistake -- taking the Joe McCarthy/Lush Rimjob corruption of the word 'liberal'. Demagoguery as dictionary.
One thing the founders were the TP isn't- intelligent, well educated, open minded, open to compromise- basically not brainwashed, bitter, old dingbats LOL. Dupes of the greedy rich and corporations- STILL just still the idiot RW of the bs GOP...ENJOY YOUR DISAPPEARANCE....80 PER CENT OF THE COUNTRY IS SICK TO DEATH OF YOU...LOL
It was the original intent of the Framers, as correctly understood and expressed by liberals today, that the laws of the Federal government are supreme, and that the Federal Constitution (in the context of its case law) is the supreme law of the land, where the states and other jurisdictions are subject to Federal law and the decisions of the Federal courts:
It might be objected that because the States ratified the Constitution, the people can delegate power only through the States or by acting in their capacities as citizens of particular States. See post, at 2-3. But in McCulloch v. Maryland, the Court set forth its authoritative rejection of this idea:
"The Convention which framed the constitution was indeed elected by the State legislatures. But the instrument . . . was submitted to the people. . . . It is true, they assembled in their several States--and where else should they have assembled? No political dreamer was ever wild enough to think of breaking down the lines which separate the States, and of compounding the American people into one common mass. Of consequence, when they act, they act in their States. But the measures they adopt do not, on that account, cease to be the measures of the people themselves, or become the measures of the State governments." 4 Wheat., at 403.
The political identity of the entire people of the Union is reinforced by the proposition, which I take to be beyond dispute, that, though limited as to its objects, the National Government is and must be controlled by the people without collateral interference by the States. McCulloch affirmed this proposition as well, when the Court rejected the suggestion that States could interfere with federal powers. "This was not intended by the American people. They did not design to make their government dependent on the States." Id., at 432. The States have no power, reserved or otherwise, over the exercise of federal authority within its proper sphere.
U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton, 514 U.S. 779 (1995).
In this, therefore, as with many other subjects, liberals today and those of the Foundation Era were of the same mind; the Framers were indeed liberal in their desire and intent to have a United States comprised of a single people, enjoying the benefits as citizens of a single Nation, subject to a single National government, not citizens of a collection of states.
conservatives hostile to the civil liberties of gay Americans,There are a couple examples that I could give as to what you're looking for, but that's not really what people mean when they say the Fathers were "liberal".
"Liberal" and "conservative" have literal meanings that are different from their current political designations.
The founding fathers were "liberal" in the sense that they were "not opposed to new ideas or ways of behaving that are not traditional or widely accepted", and not "conservative" in the sense meaning "not liking or accepting changes or new ideas."
That's exactly what I mean some liberals on here think the founders are equal to modern day liberals. and would support the policies of modern day liberals.
They are and they would.
As with liberals today, it was the Framers original intent that the principles of freedom and individual liberty enshrined in the Constitution remain inclusive of all persons, where no class is subject to disadvantage.
As Justice Kennedy correctly observed in Lawrence:
Had those who drew and ratified the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth Amendment or the Fourteenth Amendment known the components of liberty in its manifold possibilities, they might have been more specific. They did not presume to have this insight. They knew times can blind us to certain truths and later generations can see that laws once thought necessary and proper in fact serve only to oppress. As the Constitution endures, persons in every generation can invoke its principles in their own search for greater freedom.
LAWRENCE V. TEXAS
It was the Lawrence Court that invalidated so-called anti-sodomy laws that rendered homosexuality illegal, laws enacted and supported by conservatives hostile to the civil liberties of gay Americans, just as conservatives continue to seek to deny same-sex couples their civil liberties.
Clearly liberal advocacy of civil rights for homosexuals and same-sex couples is in keeping with the desire of the Framers that individual liberty should be comprehensive and safeguarded by the Constitution and its case law, and why it is indeed accurate to perceive the Framers as liberal in the current, modern context.
The founders were radical, liberal, intelligent democrats, not bought off, stupid, greedy, entrenched conservatives. Conservatives never change lol...but they've never been worse than today...
It seems some have forgotten the topic of this thread. It seems to me some are trying to troll
Does the ideal that the founders were nothing close to what a modern day liberal is strike fear in the minds of liberals?
Some of the founders did want a central bank and standing military...
Calling someone a troll is admitting you're the loser. A cough out.
No calling someone a troll is when they post BS
Now as for the standing army? there are so many way I could address this.
Liberals are not pro military
and no the founders did not want a standing army. thats why they created the second amendment.
I've conceded Hamilton to the liberal side. can you name another?
First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.
First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.
First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.
They're liberal in the sense that Jesus was. They wouldn't embrace much of what liberals today favor, but they thought outside the box and weren't afraid to shake the world when that was the right thing to do.
Read it. Know it. Live it.No they wanted a central power base and never actually followed through with a limited government.
But hey why let facts get in the way.
You do know who the federalists are right? And the fact they won right?
Also Jefferson supported public education. Who ws a founding father.
But neat you know how to post links..congrats.
bigrebnc, the thread has been answered: you would have joined the King's army.
The founding fathers were so diverse in ideology and belief you could make a point of just about any political belief being supported by them.
Thomas Jefferson and John Adams in particular were practically political opposites.
Bullshit. Jefferson and Adams would both be consider "extreme" right-wingers today. The only one of the founders who differed in any significant way was Thomas Paine. He was the only socialist in the group. The rest were all die-hard supporters of private property and free enterprise.
Which of those freedoms to modern liberals support?First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.
Freedom of Religion...very liberal at that time
Freedom of Speech...very liberal at that time
Freedom of the Press...very liberal at that time.
Freedom of Assembly...very liberal at that time.
Freedom of Petition...very liberal at that time.
No monarchy, leaders elected for a period of time then no longer leaders...very liberal at that time.
Just a few policies...and as for names....read the roster at the Constitutional Convention.
Which of those freedoms to modern liberals support?First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.
Freedom of Religion...very liberal at that time
Freedom of Speech...very liberal at that time
Freedom of the Press...very liberal at that time.
Freedom of Assembly...very liberal at that time.
Freedom of Petition...very liberal at that time.
No monarchy, leaders elected for a period of time then no longer leaders...very liberal at that time.
Just a few policies...and as for names....read the roster at the Constitutional Convention.
NOTE: Look to their actions, not what they say. Because the two are frequently at odds.
Which of those freedoms to modern liberals support?Freedom of Religion...very liberal at that time
Freedom of Speech...very liberal at that time
Freedom of the Press...very liberal at that time.
Freedom of Assembly...very liberal at that time.
Freedom of Petition...very liberal at that time.
No monarchy, leaders elected for a period of time then no longer leaders...very liberal at that time.
Just a few policies...and as for names....read the roster at the Constitutional Convention.
NOTE: Look to their actions, not what they say. Because the two are frequently at odds.
Yeah, and according to you what freedoms do liberals support? Let me guess...some typical talking point like "big giant government to control everyone and tax everyone like crazy!!"
So, you can't name any of the freedoms bode listed that liberals support by their actions?Which of those freedoms to modern liberals support?Freedom of Religion...very liberal at that time
Freedom of Speech...very liberal at that time
Freedom of the Press...very liberal at that time.
Freedom of Assembly...very liberal at that time.
Freedom of Petition...very liberal at that time.
No monarchy, leaders elected for a period of time then no longer leaders...very liberal at that time.
Just a few policies...and as for names....read the roster at the Constitutional Convention.
NOTE: Look to their actions, not what they say. Because the two are frequently at odds.
Yeah, and according to you what freedoms do liberals support? Let me guess...some typical talking point like "big giant government to control everyone and tax everyone like crazy!!"
