I've heard it on here so much enough is enough

[HelenaHandbag]

There are a couple examples that I could give as to what you're looking for, but that's not really what people mean when they say the Fathers were "liberal".

"Liberal" and "conservative" have literal meanings that are different from their current political designations.

The founding fathers were "liberal" in the sense that they were "not opposed to new ideas or ways of behaving that are not traditional or widely accepted", and not "conservative" in the sense meaning "not liking or accepting changes or new ideas."

By that definition, today's liberals are some of the most un-liberal (or is that illiberal?) people you will encounter.

Given that they cling so desperately to a Medicare, Medicaid and Great Society welfare mindset stuck in the 1960s, the New Dealer quasi-socialism rooted in the 1940s, central banking and progressive income taxation rooted in the 19-teens, and an education system rooted in an early Industrial Revolution model, they look more and more like the Torries that the revolutionaries overthrew back in the 18th century.

That's because what you're talking about there is leftism, not Liberalism.

The OP makes the same mistake -- taking the Joe McCarthy/Lush Rimjob demonizing corruption of the word 'liberal'. Demagoguery as dictionary.
That's why he can't get an answer.

The modern progressives have destroyed the word liberal, not anyone else.

 

[rightwinger]

Our founding fathers would support Obamacare

What else do you need to know?

 

[Pogo]

By that definition, today's liberals are some of the most un-liberal (or is that illiberal?) people you will encounter.

Given that they cling so desperately to a Medicare, Medicaid and Great Society welfare mindset stuck in the 1960s, the New Dealer quasi-socialism rooted in the 1940s, central banking and progressive income taxation rooted in the 19-teens, and an education system rooted in an early Industrial Revolution model, they look more and more like the Torries that the revolutionaries overthrew back in the 18th century.

That's because what you're talking about there is leftism, not Liberalism.

The OP makes the same mistake -- taking the Joe McCarthy/Lush Rimjob demonizing corruption of the word 'liberal'. Demagoguery as dictionary.
That's why he can't get an answer.

The modern progressives have destroyed the word liberal, not anyone else.

Look up your history; the McCarthy era is where this shit started. Demagogic demonization as political tool, born of a time when bogeymen were de rigeur, specifically the infamous Red Scare. A cheap association tactic; paint your political adversary as some kind of sycophant to the Emmanual Goldstein of the day, and presto -- instant public emotional sway. It was dishonest then and it's dishonest now. You can't conflate Liberalism and leftism and then blame your own lexical victim.

Not sure who "the modern progressives" are but it sounds like more of the same penchant for putting one's adversaries into little boxes,slapping a label on them and then pointing and going, "look - scary monster".

I gave BigReb this link yesterday which would have fleshed out this background and sharpened definitions. He apparently ignored it because it takes more than three sentences to explain all this. Sadly it's always easier to stay with one's own predetermined load of preconceptions, than to actually open up to the possibility that they were wrong to begin with.

Hard to navigate a world where ignorance is preferred over enlightenment...

 

[daveman]

Our founding fathers would support Obamacare

What else do you need to know?

You live a rich fantasy life.

 

[JakeStarkey]

bigrebnc, the thread has been answered: you would have joined the King's army.

You and your fellow progressives would have informed on the Revolutionaries to the Crown. Big-government statists simply can't credibly make the claim that they're just like the Founders. So stop it.

Read history. Statists among the revolutionaries included Washington, Adams, Hamilton, etc. They were not informers to the Crown. Read history.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Watching the far righties wiggle and wriggle and jiggle on the hooks of logic and fact and narrative makes me laugh.

 

[daveman]

bigrebnc, the thread has been answered: you would have joined the King's army.

You and your fellow progressives would have informed on the Revolutionaries to the Crown. Big-government statists simply can't credibly make the claim that they're just like the Founders. So stop it.

Read history. Statists among the revolutionaries included Washington, Adams, Hamilton, etc. They were not informers to the Crown. Read history.

The Founders were not supporters of Big Government. You can tell because the Constitution they wrote clearly limits Federal powers.

YOU read history instead of revising it.

 

[daveman]

Watching the far righties wiggle and wriggle and jiggle on the hooks of logic and fact and narrative makes me laugh.

Yes, crazy people often laugh for no reason.

 

[rightwinger]

The founding fathers were so diverse in ideology and belief you could make a point of just about any political belief being supported by them.

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams in particular were practically political opposites.

Bullshit. Jefferson and Adams would both be consider "extreme" right-wingers today. The only one of the founders who differed in any significant way was Thomas Paine. He was the only socialist in the group. The rest were all die-hard supporters of private property and free enterprise.

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

Republicans would call him a commie.....just like they did in 1963

 

[daveman]

Bullshit. Jefferson and Adams would both be consider "extreme" right-wingers today. The only one of the founders who differed in any significant way was Thomas Paine. He was the only socialist in the group. The rest were all die-hard supporters of private property and free enterprise.

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

Republicans would call him a commie.....just like they did in 1963

JFK advocated tax cuts to strengthen the economy and a strong foreign policy to stand up to Communism. He said, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

Yup, no doubt about it. He was a conservative.

 

[Pogo]

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

Republicans would call him a commie.....just like they did in 1963

JFK advocated tax cuts to strengthen the economy and a strong foreign policy to stand up to Communism. He said, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

Yup, no doubt about it. He was a conservative.

Linear time, Dave. Linear.
It's always a fun parlor game to yank some historical figure out of his past, plunk him and his actions taken in his own time into our time, and then go, "look, he's one of us/them!"

It actually works if you suspend the idea of linear time.

 

[Pogo]

Bullshit. Jefferson and Adams would both be consider "extreme" right-wingers today. The only one of the founders who differed in any significant way was Thomas Paine. He was the only socialist in the group. The rest were all die-hard supporters of private property and free enterprise.

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

Republicans would call him a commie.....just like they did in 1963

Illustrated:

More on Bernard Weissman, named in the above poster - is here

------------------------------------

This ran in the Dallas press that day:

 

[NYcarbineer]

First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.

They 'were' liberals. Not 'are' liberals. They are dead. They have been a very long time.

As someone once said, 'the past is another country; they do things differently there.'

Progressives, generally, want to make progress; conservatives, generally, want to conserve things the way they are.

 

[Plasmaball]

Public education? ok why does America fall behind, many liberals claim that
central government does not equate big government I trumped you win into a lose.

Kids failing has nothing to do with wanting public education you moron. All you did was move the goal posts because you have nothing. Which is typical.

Wait a minute, how did I move the goal post? When did I set a goal? your first comment to me was

Public education...central government. .

Exactly what did you mean by that? You running away from the goal post does not equate me moving it.

Things the founders where for. I know its complicated for you.

 

[Plasmaball]

Read it. Know it. Live it.

You do know who the federalists are right? And the fact they won right?
Also Jefferson supported public education. Who ws a founding father.

But neat you know how to post links..congrats.

Won what ?

1796 ? Yes.

In 1800, the federalist party was essentially rendered meaningless.

Because jefferson one once? Ok then adams one anyways and moved on..almost cause a second revolution due to his power grabs.

Go away welcher

 

[NYcarbineer]

The founding fathers were so diverse in ideology and belief you could make a point of just about any political belief being supported by them.

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams in particular were practically political opposites.

Bullshit. Jefferson and Adams would both be consider "extreme" right-wingers today. The only one of the founders who differed in any significant way was Thomas Paine. He was the only socialist in the group. The rest were all die-hard supporters of private property and free enterprise.

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

JFK spent all of his presidency trying to expand government run healthcare. Which extreme rightwingers would be with him on that?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

Republicans would call him a commie.....just like they did in 1963

JFK advocated tax cuts to strengthen the economy and a strong foreign policy to stand up to Communism. He said, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

Yup, no doubt about it. He was a conservative.

If JFK was a conservative, what was Nixon? What was Goldwater? What was LBJ?

 

[Plasmaball]

First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.

Public education...central government. .


And I win..go back to eating your crayons.

That would rule out Thomas Jefferson since he didn't support a central government.

No it wouldnt . He was against a lot of things but was for public education.

 

[Plasmaball]

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

Republicans would call him a commie.....just like they did in 1963

JFK advocated tax cuts to strengthen the economy and a strong foreign policy to stand up to Communism. He said, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

Yup, no doubt about it. He was a conservative.

70% income tax and 48% corp tax..sure thats conservative...this is above your pay grade dave.

 

[bripat9643]

Watching the far righties wiggle and wriggle and jiggle on the hooks of logic and fact and narrative makes me laugh.

When you say "far righties" what you mean is "every conservative, every libertarian and every Republican."