I've heard it on here so much enough is enough

[rightwinger]

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

JFK spent all of his presidency trying to expand government run healthcare. Which extreme rightwingers would be with him on that?

Which of today's liberals would be with him on his stance towards Communism and a strong foreign policy?

Cold War is over....I wouldn't support his stance on Communism
Liberals have a strong foreign policy. Ever hear of FDR and how Conservatives advocated isolationism? Ever see Obamas stance on fighting terrorism?

 

[NYcarbineer]

JFK advocated tax cuts to strengthen the economy and a strong foreign policy to stand up to Communism. He said, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

Yup, no doubt about it. He was a conservative.

70% income tax and 48% corp tax..sure thats conservative...this is above your pay grade dave.

Revenue Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

President John F. Kennedy brought up the issue of tax reduction in his 1963 State of the Union address. His initial plan called for a $13.5 billion tax cut through a reduction of the top income tax rate from 91% to 65%, reduction of the bottom rate from 20% to 14%, and a reduction in the corporate tax rate from 52% to 47%.​

And reality once again kicks progressive history revision square in the ass.

President Obama had 288 billion in tax cuts in the stimulus, plus the extensions of the Bush tax cuts, plus the payroll tax cuts.

 

[rightwinger]

JFK advocated tax cuts to strengthen the economy and a strong foreign policy to stand up to Communism. He said, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

Yup, no doubt about it. He was a conservative.

70% income tax and 48% corp tax..sure thats conservative...this is above your pay grade dave.

Revenue Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

President John F. Kennedy brought up the issue of tax reduction in his 1963 State of the Union address. His initial plan called for a $13.5 billion tax cut through a reduction of the top income tax rate from 91% to 65%, reduction of the bottom rate from 20% to 14%, and a reduction in the corporate tax rate from 52% to 47%.​

And reality once again kicks progressive history revision square in the ass.

As a conservative, do you support those rates?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

JFK spent all of his presidency trying to expand government run healthcare. Which extreme rightwingers would be with him on that?

Which of today's liberals would be with him on his stance towards Communism and a strong foreign policy?

I'm sorry but I don't see your answer there.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Let's debate it point by point, with real substance. The following is out of the opening statement by JFK in his September 1960 debate with Nixon:

I don't want the talents of any American to go to waste. I know that there are those who want to turn everything over to the government. I don't at all. I want the individuals to meet their responsibilities. And I want the states to meet their responsibilities.

But I think there is also a national responsibility. The argument has been used against every piece of social legislation in the last twenty-five years. The people of the United States individually could not have developed the Tennessee Valley; collectively they could have.

A cotton farmer in Georgia or a peanut farmer or a dairy farmer in Wisconsin and Minnesota, he cannot protect himself against the forces of supply and demand in the market place; but working together in effective governmental programs he can do so.

Seventeen million Americans, who live over sixty-five on an average Social Security check of about seventy-eight dollars a month, they're not able to sustain themselves individually, but they can sustain themselves through the social security system.

Now, if JFK would be a 2013 conservative, shoulder to shoulder with Ted Cruz, and Rand Paul, or you name your own,

how much of the above would be drawing cheers from them?

CPD: September 26, 1960 Debate Transcript

 

[OKTexas]

First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.

They 'were' liberals. Not 'are' liberals. They are dead. They have been a very long time.

As someone once said, 'the past is another country; they do things differently there.'

Progressives, generally, want to make progress; conservatives, generally, want to conserve things the way they are.

Change is not always progress, it's just different and doesn't improve anything. Then you have the change brought on by your dear leader, making things worse.

 

[Pogo]

It's really quite simple. Several people in this thread...on your side...have compared the Founders to today's liberals -- and you remain silent.

But when I, a conservative, compare JFK to today's conservatives, you have a cow.

Don't pretend it's about any grand and noble principle. A conservative said something you don't like.

That's really all it is.

Look -- I'll put this as simply as I can...

I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING "SIDE". Did you get that?

Yes. But I don't believe it.

It's the same point I made about JFK, only substituting the Founding Fathers and modern liberals.

And yet you, who doesn't have a side, objected only to my comparison.

Weird, huh?

Yes, asking for the equal application of standards is just insane.

Poor you, start the pity party. More whine.

What I did was pointed out the folly of taking some historical figure out of his historical context. The OP stupid question does the same thing. It's fallacious no matter who does it.

And guess what Einstein -- that's why I never took the OP question seriously. He's been beating the same question to death in another thread and it's just as silly there. Same reason. DUH. So by the time I got to your fallacy it was a reiteration.

Have a look back -- I didn't come here to address that. I came to correct the definition of terms. This just in -- it's not necessary to entertain silly questions.

Who knew.

YOUR sin was a temporal shift. It's not hard to see why that's fallacious. Unless the concept of linear time is as elusive as that of individual minds.

I'm not the only one who's committed the "sin" of temporal shift.

But I'm the only one you condemn for committing it.

Tell me again you don't have a side.

Again, take a Midol for your persecution complex.

OK, I have a side. I'm on the side of fucking linear time. So sue me.

Furthermore your hack phrase "today's liberals" is irrelevant, since I've specifically disputed the way the word is used in the first place.

Yes. But you didn't dispute it successfully.

That would take two. I can only lead the horse to water; can't force it to think. Your failure to do so doesn't make your hack phrase come to life.

Nor does it make me part of the Borg.

 

[Pogo]

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

JFK spent all of his presidency trying to expand government run healthcare. Which extreme rightwingers would be with him on that?

Which of today's liberals would be with him on his stance towards Communism and a strong foreign policy?

Here's an example of your flawed question. NONE of the ingredients in your question mean the same thing in 2013 as they meant in 1963. Were JFK living in 2013, he would have attitudes and policies that reflected this time. As would anyone else from the past. But he didn't.

More background on that bolded part above is here, although it's mostly about political machinations.

Special note to Special Dave: I didn't write this article so don't be taking me to task for content you don't like. And while it does draw temporal parallels, which you can take with however many grains of salt suit you, it at least frames the issue in its own time.

 

[rightwinger]

JFK spent all of his presidency trying to expand government run healthcare. Which extreme rightwingers would be with him on that?

Which of today's liberals would be with him on his stance towards Communism and a strong foreign policy?

Here's an example of your flawed question. NONE of the ingredients in your question mean the same thing in 2013 as they meant in 1963. Were JFK living in 2013, he would have attitudes and policies that reflected this time. As would anyone else from the past. But he didn't.

More background on that bolded part above is here, although it's mostly about political machinations.

Special note to Special Dave: I didn't write this article so don't be taking me to task for content you don't like. And while it does draw temporal parallels, which you can take with however many grains of salt suit you, it at least frames the issue in its own time.

Dave is a moron

Why would anyone today, liberal or conservative, support JFKs stance on Communism?
His stance on communism led to the Bay of Pigs and the Vietnam war

1961 is not 2013

 

[daveman]

JFK spent all of his presidency trying to expand government run healthcare. Which extreme rightwingers would be with him on that?

Which of today's liberals would be with him on his stance towards Communism and a strong foreign policy?

Cold War is over....I wouldn't support his stance on Communism
Liberals have a strong foreign policy. Ever hear of FDR and how Conservatives advocated isolationism? Ever see Obamas stance on fighting terrorism?

Just like Bush's, from what I see. Only you guys hated it when Bush did it.

 

[daveman]

70% income tax and 48% corp tax..sure thats conservative...this is above your pay grade dave.

Revenue Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

President John F. Kennedy brought up the issue of tax reduction in his 1963 State of the Union address. His initial plan called for a $13.5 billion tax cut through a reduction of the top income tax rate from 91% to 65%, reduction of the bottom rate from 20% to 14%, and a reduction in the corporate tax rate from 52% to 47%.​

And reality once again kicks progressive history revision square in the ass.

President Obama had 288 billion in tax cuts in the stimulus, plus the extensions of the Bush tax cuts, plus the payroll tax cuts.

Thanks for highlighting the differences between JFK and the current Democratic Party.

 

[daveman]

70% income tax and 48% corp tax..sure thats conservative...this is above your pay grade dave.

Revenue Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

President John F. Kennedy brought up the issue of tax reduction in his 1963 State of the Union address. His initial plan called for a $13.5 billion tax cut through a reduction of the top income tax rate from 91% to 65%, reduction of the bottom rate from 20% to 14%, and a reduction in the corporate tax rate from 52% to 47%.​

And reality once again kicks progressive history revision square in the ass.

As a conservative, do you support those rates?

No. Too high. But far, far better than those he proposed replacing.

 

[daveman]

JFK spent all of his presidency trying to expand government run healthcare. Which extreme rightwingers would be with him on that?

Which of today's liberals would be with him on his stance towards Communism and a strong foreign policy?

I'm sorry but I don't see your answer there.

Tissue?

 

[daveman]

Look -- I'll put this as simply as I can...

I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING "SIDE". Did you get that?

Yes. But I don't believe it.

It's the same point I made about JFK, only substituting the Founding Fathers and modern liberals.

And yet you, who doesn't have a side, objected only to my comparison.

Weird, huh?

Yes, asking for the equal application of standards is just insane.

Poor you, start the pity party. More whine.

What I did was pointed out the folly of taking some historical figure out of his historical context. The OP stupid question does the same thing. It's fallacious no matter who does it.

And guess what Einstein -- that's why I never took the OP question seriously. He's been beating the same question to death in another thread and it's just as silly there. Same reason. DUH. So by the time I got to your fallacy it was a reiteration.

Have a look back -- I didn't come here to address that. I came to correct the definition of terms. This just in -- it's not necessary to entertain silly questions.

Who knew.





Again, take a Midol for your persecution complex.

OK, I have a side. I'm on the side of fucking linear time. So sue me.

Furthermore your hack phrase "today's liberals" is irrelevant, since I've specifically disputed the way the word is used in the first place.

Yes. But you didn't dispute it successfully.

That would take two. I can only lead the horse to water; can't force it to think. Your failure to do so doesn't make your hack phrase come to life.

Nor does it make me part of the Borg.

In summary: You're right because you say you are, and demanding different standards for different groups does NOT make you a hypocrite.

All righty then.

 

[daveman]

JFK spent all of his presidency trying to expand government run healthcare. Which extreme rightwingers would be with him on that?

Which of today's liberals would be with him on his stance towards Communism and a strong foreign policy?

Here's an example of your flawed question. NONE of the ingredients in your question mean the same thing in 2013 as they meant in 1963. Were JFK living in 2013, he would have attitudes and policies that reflected this time. As would anyone else from the past. But he didn't.

More background on that bolded part above is here, although it's mostly about political machinations.

Special note to Special Dave: I didn't write this article so don't be taking me to task for content you don't like. And while it does draw temporal parallels, which you can take with however many grains of salt suit you, it at least frames the issue in its own time.

Let's see, I've already asked you if you were going to take rightwinger to task for making false parallels, haven't I?

Oh, yes, I did. And you replied with wide-eyed innocence that you don't have to apply the same standards to everyone.

 

[daveman]

Which of today's liberals would be with him on his stance towards Communism and a strong foreign policy?

Here's an example of your flawed question. NONE of the ingredients in your question mean the same thing in 2013 as they meant in 1963. Were JFK living in 2013, he would have attitudes and policies that reflected this time. As would anyone else from the past. But he didn't.

More background on that bolded part above is here, although it's mostly about political machinations.

Special note to Special Dave: I didn't write this article so don't be taking me to task for content you don't like. And while it does draw temporal parallels, which you can take with however many grains of salt suit you, it at least frames the issue in its own time.

Dave is a moron

Why would anyone today, liberal or conservative, support JFKs stance on Communism?
His stance on communism led to the Bay of Pigs and the Vietnam war

1961 is not 2013

So, JFK was a moron.

I retract my claim, then. He's JUST LIKE modern liberals.

 

[rightwinger]

Here's an example of your flawed question. NONE of the ingredients in your question mean the same thing in 2013 as they meant in 1963. Were JFK living in 2013, he would have attitudes and policies that reflected this time. As would anyone else from the past. But he didn't.

More background on that bolded part above is here, although it's mostly about political machinations.

Special note to Special Dave: I didn't write this article so don't be taking me to task for content you don't like. And while it does draw temporal parallels, which you can take with however many grains of salt suit you, it at least frames the issue in its own time.

Dave is a moron

Why would anyone today, liberal or conservative, support JFKs stance on Communism?
His stance on communism led to the Bay of Pigs and the Vietnam war

1961 is not 2013

So, JFK was a moron.

I retract my claim, then. He's JUST LIKE modern liberals.

Do you, or do you not support JFKs stand on Communism in 2013?

Should we be trying to kill Castro? Should we attack Cuba? Should we restart a Cold War with Russia? Should we attack those Commies in Vietnam?

That is what you are advocating

 

[HelenaHandbag]

OK, point by point.

Let's debate it point by point, with real substance. The following is out of the opening statement by JFK in his September 1960 debate with Nixon:

I don't want the talents of any American to go to waste. I know that there are those who want to turn everything over to the government. I don't at all. I want the individuals to meet their responsibilities. And I want the states to meet their responsibilities.

"Responsibilities" as defined how and by whom?

But I think there is also a national responsibility. The argument has been used against every piece of social legislation in the last twenty-five years. The people of the United States individually could not have developed the Tennessee Valley; collectively they could have.

Two straw man arguments in one.

• Your opinion that there is a national responsibility does not make it so by fiat.
  
• The people of the United States DID create the TVA. That it was imposed upon the area is irrelevant, as development of the project wasn't even considered or attempted as a voluntary compact between states.

A cotton farmer in Georgia or a peanut farmer or a dairy farmer in Wisconsin and Minnesota, he cannot protect himself against the forces of supply and demand in the market place; but working together in effective governmental programs he can do so.

Never heard of the commodities markets, have you?

Seventeen million Americans, who live over sixty-five on an average Social Security check of about seventy-eight dollars a month, they're not able to sustain themselves individually, but they can sustain themselves through the social security system.

I don't even know what that is supposed to mean.

Now, if JFK would be a 2013 conservative, shoulder to shoulder with Ted Cruz, and Rand Paul, or you name your own, how much of the above would be drawing cheers from them?

Another straw man argument.

I can't find a post of anyone claiming that JFK would be standing shoulder to shoulder with the likes of Cruz, Paul or any of the other TEA party crowd. Can you link to a post that claims this?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Hell, JFK would be considered an extreme right-winger today.

JFK spent all of his presidency trying to expand government run healthcare. Which extreme rightwingers would be with him on that?

Which of today's liberals would be with him on his stance towards Communism and a strong foreign policy?

Too many of them, like too many of our Pubs, are neo-cons.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We have seen the far right reactionaries and TeaPs fail in this OP.

JFK would have had very, very little to do with them at all.