Jewish Neocons and the border.

[dilloduck]

Yeah, and if they are of contention you object right? If people come down hard on Christians, you're right here giving it back...

How do you think Corporal Schicklegruber got his countrymen het up in the 1930s. Exactly that kind of rhetoric - Jewish people aren't your friends - they steal from you, they take advantage of you, they beleive in porous borders. My biggest annoyance with RWA is his total lack of stats to back up his opinion. I mean, if what he says is true - Jewish neocons support porous borders, and they do and he can back it up, then there is no argument. But just to single out a certain race, is hogwash AND bullcrap. Totally unfounded and just there to inflame (IMO of course)...

"laterz" for real...

Wrong---no objections----I don't give a damn if they run a poll to see how whites,christians, men, Texans feel about anything. Jews get immediately defensive as demonstated here today. You making something up to be offended by---did you actually read the original question?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Yeah, and if they are of contention you object right? If people come down hard on Christians, you're right here giving it back...

How do you think Corporal Schicklegruber got his countrymen het up in the 1930s. Exactly that kind of rhetoric - Jewish people aren't your friends - they steal from you, they take advantage of you, they beleive in porous borders. My biggest annoyance with RWA is his total lack of stats to back up his opinion. I mean, if what he says is true - Jewish neocons support porous borders, and they do and he can back it up, then there is no argument. But just to single out a certain race, is hogwash AND bullcrap. Totally unfounded and just there to inflame (IMO of course)...

"laterz" for real...

All the neocons I've seen that I know are jewish, don't seem to have much zeal for enforcing our borders, and even tend towards calling those who are concerned racists and stupid.

If you could find me some, my opinion might change.

Stats? No discussions can even occur until there are stats?
Your tendency toward totalitarianism of thought is terrifying to me.

 

[Diuretic]

The majority of Neocons may well be Jewish. Many of them may well be ex-Democratic Party supporters as well. The influence of Leo Strauss on the Neocon thinking is probably more important than someone's being a Jew or an ex-Democratic Party supporter or both. It might pay to keep an open mind on what the Neocons are up to and check out what Strauss wrote about democracy. It might also be useful to know that one of the most committed opponents of Straussianism is, herself, Jewish. And no doubt more than a few Neocons are not Jews. It's about politics and philosophy, not religion.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The majority of Neocons may well be Jewish. Many of them may well be ex-Democratic Party supporters as well. The influence of Leo Strauss on the Neocon thinking is probably more important than someone's being a Jew or an ex-Democratic Party supporter or both. It might pay to keep an open mind on what the Neocons are up to and check out what Strauss wrote about democracy. It might also be useful to know that one of the most committed opponents of Straussianism is, herself, Jewish. And no doubt more than a few Neocons are not Jews. It's about politics and philosophy, not religion.

Religion and politics are forever intertwined, sorry.

 

[jillian]

All the neocons I've seen that I know are jewish, don't seem to have much zeal for enforcing our borders, and even tend towards calling those who are concerned racists and stupid.

If you could find me some, my opinion might change.

Stats? No discussions can even occur until there are stats?
Your tendency toward totalitarianism of thought is terrifying to me.

Let me enlighten you...

Richard L. Armitage, William J. Bennett, John Bolton, Francis Fukuyama, Peter Rodman, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, all non-Jewish neo-cons.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Let me enlighten you...

Richard L. Armitage, William J. Bennett, John Bolton, Francis Fukuyama, Peter Rodman, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, all non-Jewish neo-cons.

No crap. I never said all neocons were jewish. I'm saying of the ones I know that are jewish, none want to enforce the border.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The majority of Neocons may well be Jewish. Many of them may well be ex-Democratic Party supporters as well. The influence of Leo Strauss on the Neocon thinking is probably more important than someone's being a Jew or an ex-Democratic Party supporter or both. It might pay to keep an open mind on what the Neocons are up to and check out what Strauss wrote about democracy. It might also be useful to know that one of the most committed opponents of Straussianism is, herself, Jewish. And no doubt more than a few Neocons are not Jews. It's about politics and philosophy, not religion.

How does the Straussian influence manifest itself in policy?

 

[Said1]

The conspiracy theory of the week, I see. RWA, don't you see that Jewish nationalism is not necessarily intertwined with ethnic homogeneity, racial homogeniety, cultural homogeniety, or common history? It could be crystalizing around new positive values, around democratic institutions, tolerance, and individual rights.

The sig that just keeps on giving.

 

[Diuretic]

Religion and politics are forever intertwined, sorry.

True enough - not a good idea of course but it's happening everywhere.

 

[Diuretic]

How does the Straussian influence manifest itself in policy?

Good question. If I knew more about Strauss' ideas in great detail I'd give you a detailed answer (I'm reading "Natural Right and History" at the moment but it's hard going). Anyway suffice to say he has no time for representative democracy and instead believed in a rule by elite (after Plato). I think you might find the PNAC crowd are pretty well driven by Straussian ideas.

 

[Annie]

Israel gets too much aid from the US....Hamas shouldn't get one red cent unless they allow US, or even UN, auditors to do their books for them...

I'd settle for them saying that blowing up civilians is wrong, then following that message.

 

[dilloduck]

Good question. If I knew more about Strauss' ideas in great detail I'd give you a detailed answer (I'm reading "Natural Right and History" at the moment but it's hard going). Anyway suffice to say he has no time for representative democracy and instead believed in a rule by elite (after Plato). I think you might find the PNAC crowd are pretty well driven by Straussian ideas.

The brief synposis I read on him was quite interesting and I can see where the PNAC folks would lean his way. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Diuretic]

You're welcome, he's an interesting character.

 

[dilloduck]

How does the Straussian influence manifest itself in policy?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=1233
The great significance of Strauss for mainstream conservatives is that his is the deepest philosophical analysis of what is wrong with liberalism. Technocratic, legalistic, and empirical criticism of liberalism is all very well, but it is not enough. He believes that contemporary liberalism is the logical outcome of the philosophical principles of modernity, taken to their extremes. In some sense, modernity itself is the problem. Strauss believed that liberalism, as practiced in the advanced nations of the West in the 20th century, contains within it an intrinsic tendency towards relativism, which leads to nihilism. He first experienced this crisis in his native Germany’s Weimar Republic of the 1920s, in which the liberal state was so ultra-tolerant that it tolerated the Communists and Nazis who eventually destroyed it and tolerated the moral disorder that turned ordinary Germans against it. A Jew, he fled Germany in 1938. We see this problem repeated today in the multiculturalism that sanctions the importation into the West of Moslem fundamentalists whose foremost aim is the destruction of the Western society that makes that tolerance possible, and in an America so frightened of offending anyone that it refuses to carry out the basic duty of any normal state to guard its own borders
(More but I dont know how to do that cool linky thingy) :teeth:

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Seriously. I just want to find one jew who's for strong border controls.

Well, I gave you one. However, if you are talking about neocon Jews then I'd agree there are really none to be found.

This is an interesting historical article on neocons and the Jewish connection:

Immigration policy provides a valuable acid test for the proposition that neoconservatism is actually a vehicle for perceived Jewish ethnic interests. I believe I have been able to demonstrate that pro-immigration elements in American public life have, for over a century, been largely led, funded, energized and organized by the Jewish community . American Jews have taken this line, with a few isolated exceptions, because they have believed, as Leonard S. Glickman, president and CEO of the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, has bluntly stated, “The more diverse American society is the safer are.” Having run out of Russian Jews, the HIAS is now deeply involved in recruiting refugees from Africa.

When, in the middle 1990s an immigration reform movement arose amongst American conservatives, the reaction of the neoconservatives ranged from cold to hostile. No positive voice was permitted on the Op-Ed page of the Wall Street Journal, by then a neoconservative domain. (Perhaps significantly, a more recent exception has been a relatively favorable review of the anti-illegal immigration book Mexifornia— whose author, the military historian Victor Davis Hanson, has distinguished himself by the extreme hawkishness of his views on the Middle East.) The main vehicle of immigration reform sentiment, National Review, once a bastion of traditional conservative thought, was quite quickly captured by neoconservatives and its opposition to immigration reduced to nominal.

Prior to the post-9/11 U.S. invasion of the Middle East, this suppression of the immigration reform impulse among conservatives was probably the single most important contribution of the neoconservatives to the course of U.S. history.

It may yet prove to be the most disastrous.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/GoPostal/commentdetail.asp?ID=22313&commentID=707793

Another article regarding Jews and nationalism....complete with stats:

Jews’ idiotic anti-nationalism

Asked by the General Social Survey if immigration improves America, 52 percent of Protestants, 61 percent of Catholics, and 90 percent of Jews said yes. Matthew Yglesias, a Jew who works for The American Prospect, explains why Jews support immigration so much more than other groups, and Steve Sailer offers effective replies.

One of Yglesias’s points is: “Second, as a historical matter, nationalism has been Bad For The Jews.”

Yglesias is certainly correct that this is the Jewish view of the matter. But how truly idiotic and despicable a view it is. Jews have always lauded America for defeating Hitler. Would America have been able to defeat Hitler if it hadn’t existed as a nation and been a strong nation? Would it have been better for the Jews if Britain had had a weak sense of nationality and compromised with Hitler, instead of, as was the actual case under Churchill, a strong sense of nationality and stood up to him? Would Ann Frank’s family have had to hide in an attic for two years and then been arrested and sent to concentration camps where they died horrible deaths, if the Netherlands, instead of being a weak nation that was easily overrun by the Germans, had been a strong nation that was able to prevent the Germans from conquering the Netherlands and capturing all its Jews?

Also, most Jews are thankful for the fact that America, the strongest nation on earth, stands almost alone against the world-wide movement to destroy Israel. Will a weak and divided America be able to perform that function?

To say that nationalism is bad is like saying that the human hand is bad because sometimes it is used to hurt people. Jews are supposed to be the highest IQ group. The leftist idiocies embraced by far too many Jews prove that intelligence has nothing to do with wisdom and understanding. IQ is simply the ability to process information. But the ability to process information can be used as easily to advance false arguments as true arguments. Intelligence is like nationalism. It can serve good purposes, or bad.

There’s another point to be made about Jews’ open avowal of anti-nationalism. If it had been known in 1885 or 1900 that the grandchildren of the Jews then being admitted en masse into America (an influx that included my own grandparents) would dedicate themselves as a group to the undermining of the American nation via open borders, would the America of that time have let in all those Jews? Of course not. As I wrote in Huddled Clichés:


The uncompromising pro-immigration stand of various ethnic organizations presents an even more pungent irony. If all descendants of immigrants, particularly non-Western, ethnically diverse immigrants, have a hereditary obligation to crusade for open borders, then as soon as a nation lets in any diverse immigrants at all, it has spawned a domestic pro-immigration lobby that will (1) work incessantly to expand the numbers and power of its own group; (2) agitate to expand immigration generally; and (3) deny the society any moral right to restrict immigration in the future. If those are the rules of the game,—if by admitting immigrants a society automatically loses its right to control future immigration—then what rational society would want to admit any immigrants? The “my-grandparents-were-immigrants” crowd do not seem to realize that in their strident open-borders moralism, they are making the definitive case against immigration, including the immigration that brought their own grandparents here.

If more writers would start making these kinds of arguments, instead of just me, that might snap the Jewish community out of their self-absorption and make them realize that the things they are saying are offensive to other Americans, which in turn would lead them to change their behavior. [how about it Bill Kristol?] But as long as Jews are never criticized by responsible mainstream opinion-makers, they have no reason to restrain themselves.

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/005400.html

 

[Dr Grump]

All the neocons I've seen that I know are jewish, don't seem to have much zeal for enforcing our borders, and even tend towards calling those who are concerned racists and stupid.

If you could find me some, my opinion might change.

Stats? No discussions can even occur until there are stats?
Your tendency toward totalitarianism of thought is terrifying to me.

Ok, let me put it another way. Why is the race of the neocons you are talking about important? It's like me saying, so and so serial killer is black, or hispanic or white. The fact they are a serial killer is all that matters...I have no tendency toward totalitarianism? You want proof? Get rid of all mods on these boards....

Abbey (or should I say Kathi lite?)

I couldn't give two hoots about bringing up gays and AIDs. Fact is a large proportion of gays have AIDs compared to other parts of the population...

 

[Dr Grump]

I'd settle for them saying that blowing up civilians is wrong, then following that message.

Yeah, me too...

 

[dilloduck]

Ok, let me put it another way. Why is the race of the neocons you are talking about important? It's like me saying, so and so serial killer is black, or hispanic or white. The fact they are a serial killer is all that matters...I have no tendency toward totalitarianism? You want proof? Get rid of all mods on these boards....

Abbey (or should I say Kathi lite?)

I couldn't give two hoots about bringing up gays and AIDs. Fact is a large proportion of gays have AIDs compared to other parts of the population...

Wrong----the race of a serial killer is an important factor in capturing him.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Ok, let me put it another way. Why is the race of the neocons you are talking about important? It's like me saying, so and so serial killer is black, or hispanic or white. The fact they are a serial killer is all that matters...I have no tendency toward totalitarianism? You want proof? Get rid of all mods on these boards....

Abbey (or should I say Kathi lite?)

I couldn't give two hoots about bringing up gays and AIDs. Fact is a large proportion of gays have AIDs compared to other parts of the population...

When Abe Foxman shuts his f'in mouth, I will too.

 

[jillian]

Wrong----the race of a serial killer is an important factor in capturing him.

Maybe, but other than the guys who were the snipers in D.C., they've all be white, no?