John Locke on Stand Your Ground

Publius1787

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John Locke on Stand Your Ground

Liberals want to undo over 400-5000 years of proven legal thought.

CHAP. III. (2nd Treatise of Government)
Of the State of War.
Second Treatise of Civil Government by John Locke

§. 16.

THE state of war is a state of enmity and destruction: and therefore declaring by word or action, not a passionate and hasty, but a sedate settled design upon another man’s life, puts him in a state of war with him against whom he has declared such an intention, and so has exposed his life to the other’s power to be taken away by him, or any one that joins with him in his defence, and espouses his quarrel; it being reasonable and just, I should have a right to destroy that which threatens me with destruction:for, by the fundamental law of nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred: and one may destroy a man who makes war upon him, or has discovered an enmity to his being, for the same reason that he may kill a wolf or a lion; because such men are not under the ties of the common-law of reason, have no other rule, but that of force and violence, and so may be treated as beasts of prey, those dangerous and noxious creatures, that will be sure to destroy him whenever he falls into their power.

§. 17.

And hence it is, that he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power, does thereby put himself into a state of war with him; it being to be understood as a declaration of a design upon his life: for I have reason to conclude, that he who would get me into his power without my consent, would use me as he pleased when he had got me there, and destroy me too when he had a fancy to it; for no body can desire to have me in his absolute power, unless it be to compel me by force to that which is against the right of my freedom, i. e. make me a slave. To be free from such force is the only security of my preservation; and reason bids me look on him, as an enemy to my preservation, who would take away that freedom which is the fence to it; so that he who makes an attempt to enslave me, thereby puts himself into a state of war with me. He that, in the state of nature, would take away the freedom that belongs to any one in that state, must necessarily be supposed to have a design to take away every thing else, that freedom being the foundation of all the rest; as he that, in the state of society, would take away the freedom belonging to those of that society or common-wealth, must be supposed to design to take away from them every thing else, and so be looked on as in a state of war.

§. 18.

This makes it lawful for a man to kill a thief, who has not in the least hurt him, nor declared any design upon his life, any farther than, by the use of force, so to get him in his power, as to take away his money, or what he pleases, from him; because using force, where he has no right, to get me into his power, let his pretence be what it will, I have no reason to suppose, that he, who would take away my liberty, would not, when he had me in his power, take away every thing else. And therefore it is lawful for me to treat him as one who has put himself into a state of war with me, i. e. kill him if I can; for to that hazard does he justly expose himself, whoever introduces a state of war, and is aggressor in it.

§. 19.

And here we have the plain difference between the state of nature and the state of war, which however some men have confounded, are as far distant, as a state of peace, good will, mutual assistance and preservation, and a state of enmity, malice, violence and mutual destruction, are one from another. Men living together according to reason, without a common superior on earth, with authority to judge between them, is properly the state of nature. But force, or a declared design of force, upon the person of another, where there is no common superior on earth to appeal to for relief, is the state of war: and it is the want of such an appeal gives a man the right of war even against an aggressor, tho’ he be in society and a fellow subject. Thus a thief, whom I cannot harm, but by appeal to the law, for having stolen all that I am worth, I may kill, when he sets on me to rob me but of my horse or coat; because the law, which was made for my preservation, where it cannot interpose to secure my life from present force, which, if lost, is capable of no reparation, permits me my own defence, and the right of war, a liberty to kill the aggressor, because the aggressor allows not time to appeal to our common judge, nor the decision of the law, for remedy in a case where the mischief may be irreparable. Want of a common judge with authority, puts all men in a state of nature: force without right, upon a man’s person, makes a state of war, both where there is, and is not, a common judge.
§. 20.

But when the actual force is over, the state of war ceases between those that are in society, and are equally on both sides subjected to the fair determination of the law; because then there lies open the remedy of appeal for the past injury, and to prevent future harm: but where no such appeal is, as in the state of nature, for want of positive laws, and judges with authority to appeal to, the state of war once begun, continues, with a right to the innocent party to destroy the other whenever he can, until the aggressor offers peace, and desires reconciliation on such terms as may repair any wrongs he has already done, and secure the innocent for the future; nay, where an appeal to the law, and constituted judges, lies open, but the remedy is denied by a manifest perverting of justice, and a barefaced wresting of the laws to protect or indemnify the violence or injuries of some men, or party of men, there it is hard to imagine any thing but a state of war: for where-ever violence is used, and injury done, though by hands appointed to administer justice, it is still violence and injury, however coloured with the name, pretences, or forms of law, the end whereof being to protect and redress the innocent, by an unbiassed application of it, to all who are under it; where-ever that is not bona fide done, war is made upon the sufferers, who having no appeal on earth to right them, they are left to the only remedy in such cases, an appeal to heaven.

§. 21.

To avoid this state of war (wherein there is no appeal but to heaven, and wherein every the least difference is apt to end, where there is no authority to decide between the contenders) is one great reason of men’s putting themselves into society, and quitting the state of nature: for where there is an authority, a power on earth, from which relief can be had by appeal, there the continuance of the state of war is excluded, and the controversy is decided by that power. Had there been any such court, any superior jurisdiction on earth, to determine the right between Jephtha and the Ammonites, they had never come to a state of war: but we see he was forced to appeal to heaven. The Lord the Judge (says he) be judge this day between the children of Israel and the children of Ammon, Judg. xi. 27. and then prosecuting, and relying on his appeal, he leads out his army to battle: and therefore in such controversies, where the question is put, who shall be judge? It cannot be meant, who shall decide the controversy; every one knows what Jephtha here tells us, that the Lord the Judge shall judge. Where there is no judge on earth, the appeal lies to God in heaven. That question then cannot mean, who shall judge, whether another hath put himself in a state of war with me, and whether I may, as Jephtha did, appeal to heaven in it? of that I myself can only be judge in my own conscience, as I will answer it, at the great day, to the supreme judge of all men.

locke.jpg

zimmerman-injuries.jpg
 
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"""I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times.

We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.""

Thomas Jefferson in letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816.
 

"""I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times.

We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.""

Thomas Jefferson in letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816.

The day that the defense of one's own life is no longer a recognized unalienable right is the day you can make changes to it. Your quoting the guy to wrote "We hold these truths to be SELF EVIDENT," ... among them (Unalienable Rights) are "LIFE ..." I don't see Jefferson changing his mind. Nor do I see him disagreeing with John Locke who he once referred to as among the trinity of the greatest men who ever lived. Do you? Indeed, the very guy ... no .... the very BOOK (Cited in the OP) ... Jefferson stole from when he wrote the Declaration of Independence. But lets not allow the facts to get in the way of our biases.
 
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John Locke on Stand Your Ground

Liberals want to undo over 400-5000 years of proven legal thought.

CHAP. III. (2nd Treatise of Government)
Of the State of War.
Second Treatise of Civil Government by John Locke

§. 16.

THE state of war is a state of enmity and destruction: and therefore declaring by word or action, not a passionate and hasty, but a sedate settled design upon another man’s life, puts him in a state of war with him against whom he has declared such an intention, and so has exposed his life to the other’s power to be taken away by him, or any one that joins with him in his defence, and espouses his quarrel; it being reasonable and just, I should have a right to destroy that which threatens me with destruction:for, by the fundamental law of nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred: and one may destroy a man who makes war upon him, or has discovered an enmity to his being, for the same reason that he may kill a wolf or a lion; because such men are not under the ties of the common-law of reason, have no other rule, but that of force and violence, and so may be treated as beasts of prey, those dangerous and noxious creatures, that will be sure to destroy him whenever he falls into their power.

§. 17.

And hence it is, that he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power, does thereby put himself into a state of war with him; it being to be understood as a declaration of a design upon his life: for I have reason to conclude, that he who would get me into his power without my consent, would use me as he pleased when he had got me there, and destroy me too when he had a fancy to it; for no body can desire to have me in his absolute power, unless it be to compel me by force to that which is against the right of my freedom, i. e. make me a slave. To be free from such force is the only security of my preservation; and reason bids me look on him, as an enemy to my preservation, who would take away that freedom which is the fence to it; so that he who makes an attempt to enslave me, thereby puts himself into a state of war with me. He that, in the state of nature, would take away the freedom that belongs to any one in that state, must necessarily be supposed to have a design to take away every thing else, that freedom being the foundation of all the rest; as he that, in the state of society, would take away the freedom belonging to those of that society or common-wealth, must be supposed to design to take away from them every thing else, and so be looked on as in a state of war.

§. 18.

This makes it lawful for a man to kill a thief, who has not in the least hurt him, nor declared any design upon his life, any farther than, by the use of force, so to get him in his power, as to take away his money, or what he pleases, from him; because using force, where he has no right, to get me into his power, let his pretence be what it will, I have no reason to suppose, that he, who would take away my liberty, would not, when he had me in his power, take away every thing else. And therefore it is lawful for me to treat him as one who has put himself into a state of war with me, i. e. kill him if I can; for to that hazard does he justly expose himself, whoever introduces a state of war, and is aggressor in it.

§. 19.

And here we have the plain difference between the state of nature and the state of war, which however some men have confounded, are as far distant, as a state of peace, good will, mutual assistance and preservation, and a state of enmity, malice, violence and mutual destruction, are one from another. Men living together according to reason, without a common superior on earth, with authority to judge between them, is properly the state of nature. But force, or a declared design of force, upon the person of another, where there is no common superior on earth to appeal to for relief, is the state of war: and it is the want of such an appeal gives a man the right of war even against an aggressor, tho’ he be in society and a fellow subject. Thus a thief, whom I cannot harm, but by appeal to the law, for having stolen all that I am worth, I may kill, when he sets on me to rob me but of my horse or coat; because the law, which was made for my preservation, where it cannot interpose to secure my life from present force, which, if lost, is capable of no reparation, permits me my own defence, and the right of war, a liberty to kill the aggressor, because the aggressor allows not time to appeal to our common judge, nor the decision of the law, for remedy in a case where the mischief may be irreparable. Want of a common judge with authority, puts all men in a state of nature: force without right, upon a man’s person, makes a state of war, both where there is, and is not, a common judge.
§. 20.

But when the actual force is over, the state of war ceases between those that are in society, and are equally on both sides subjected to the fair determination of the law; because then there lies open the remedy of appeal for the past injury, and to prevent future harm: but where no such appeal is, as in the state of nature, for want of positive laws, and judges with authority to appeal to, the state of war once begun, continues, with a right to the innocent party to destroy the other whenever he can, until the aggressor offers peace, and desires reconciliation on such terms as may repair any wrongs he has already done, and secure the innocent for the future; nay, where an appeal to the law, and constituted judges, lies open, but the remedy is denied by a manifest perverting of justice, and a barefaced wresting of the laws to protect or indemnify the violence or injuries of some men, or party of men, there it is hard to imagine any thing but a state of war: for where-ever violence is used, and injury done, though by hands appointed to administer justice, it is still violence and injury, however coloured with the name, pretences, or forms of law, the end whereof being to protect and redress the innocent, by an unbiassed application of it, to all who are under it; where-ever that is not bona fide done, war is made upon the sufferers, who having no appeal on earth to right them, they are left to the only remedy in such cases, an appeal to heaven.

§. 21.

To avoid this state of war (wherein there is no appeal but to heaven, and wherein every the least difference is apt to end, where there is no authority to decide between the contenders) is one great reason of men’s putting themselves into society, and quitting the state of nature: for where there is an authority, a power on earth, from which relief can be had by appeal, there the continuance of the state of war is excluded, and the controversy is decided by that power. Had there been any such court, any superior jurisdiction on earth, to determine the right between Jephtha and the Ammonites, they had never come to a state of war: but we see he was forced to appeal to heaven. The Lord the Judge (says he) be judge this day between the children of Israel and the children of Ammon, Judg. xi. 27. and then prosecuting, and relying on his appeal, he leads out his army to battle: and therefore in such controversies, where the question is put, who shall be judge? It cannot be meant, who shall decide the controversy; every one knows what Jephtha here tells us, that the Lord the Judge shall judge. Where there is no judge on earth, the appeal lies to God in heaven. That question then cannot mean, who shall judge, whether another hath put himself in a state of war with me, and whether I may, as Jephtha did, appeal to heaven in it? of that I myself can only be judge in my own conscience, as I will answer it, at the great day, to the supreme judge of all men.

locke.jpg

zimmerman-injuries.jpg
The problem with your argument is that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Trayvon was just walking thru. Zimmerman went up to him with a gun.

When an armed man meets an un-armed man, it is the armed man who intends to put the other man under his absolute power.


As far as the crap you said about liberals, your own post makes it clear that Locke was saying the one who favors war, is the bad guy. And I know liberals are definitely "anti-war". Conservatives are "for-war". They started the wars we've been fighting for the last 10 years. So Locke would not side with the cons (the pro-war crowd).
 
John Locke on Stand Your Ground

Liberals want to undo over 400-5000 years of proven legal thought.

CHAP. III. (2nd Treatise of Government)
Of the State of War.
Second Treatise of Civil Government by John Locke

§. 16.

THE state of war is a state of enmity and destruction: and therefore declaring by word or action, not a passionate and hasty, but a sedate settled design upon another man’s life, puts him in a state of war with him against whom he has declared such an intention, and so has exposed his life to the other’s power to be taken away by him, or any one that joins with him in his defence, and espouses his quarrel; it being reasonable and just, I should have a right to destroy that which threatens me with destruction:for, by the fundamental law of nature, man being to be preserved as much as possible, when all cannot be preserved, the safety of the innocent is to be preferred: and one may destroy a man who makes war upon him, or has discovered an enmity to his being, for the same reason that he may kill a wolf or a lion; because such men are not under the ties of the common-law of reason, have no other rule, but that of force and violence, and so may be treated as beasts of prey, those dangerous and noxious creatures, that will be sure to destroy him whenever he falls into their power.

§. 17.

And hence it is, that he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power, does thereby put himself into a state of war with him; it being to be understood as a declaration of a design upon his life: for I have reason to conclude, that he who would get me into his power without my consent, would use me as he pleased when he had got me there, and destroy me too when he had a fancy to it; for no body can desire to have me in his absolute power, unless it be to compel me by force to that which is against the right of my freedom, i. e. make me a slave. To be free from such force is the only security of my preservation; and reason bids me look on him, as an enemy to my preservation, who would take away that freedom which is the fence to it; so that he who makes an attempt to enslave me, thereby puts himself into a state of war with me. He that, in the state of nature, would take away the freedom that belongs to any one in that state, must necessarily be supposed to have a design to take away every thing else, that freedom being the foundation of all the rest; as he that, in the state of society, would take away the freedom belonging to those of that society or common-wealth, must be supposed to design to take away from them every thing else, and so be looked on as in a state of war.

§. 18.

This makes it lawful for a man to kill a thief, who has not in the least hurt him, nor declared any design upon his life, any farther than, by the use of force, so to get him in his power, as to take away his money, or what he pleases, from him; because using force, where he has no right, to get me into his power, let his pretence be what it will, I have no reason to suppose, that he, who would take away my liberty, would not, when he had me in his power, take away every thing else. And therefore it is lawful for me to treat him as one who has put himself into a state of war with me, i. e. kill him if I can; for to that hazard does he justly expose himself, whoever introduces a state of war, and is aggressor in it.

§. 19.

And here we have the plain difference between the state of nature and the state of war, which however some men have confounded, are as far distant, as a state of peace, good will, mutual assistance and preservation, and a state of enmity, malice, violence and mutual destruction, are one from another. Men living together according to reason, without a common superior on earth, with authority to judge between them, is properly the state of nature. But force, or a declared design of force, upon the person of another, where there is no common superior on earth to appeal to for relief, is the state of war: and it is the want of such an appeal gives a man the right of war even against an aggressor, tho’ he be in society and a fellow subject. Thus a thief, whom I cannot harm, but by appeal to the law, for having stolen all that I am worth, I may kill, when he sets on me to rob me but of my horse or coat; because the law, which was made for my preservation, where it cannot interpose to secure my life from present force, which, if lost, is capable of no reparation, permits me my own defence, and the right of war, a liberty to kill the aggressor, because the aggressor allows not time to appeal to our common judge, nor the decision of the law, for remedy in a case where the mischief may be irreparable. Want of a common judge with authority, puts all men in a state of nature: force without right, upon a man’s person, makes a state of war, both where there is, and is not, a common judge.
§. 20.

But when the actual force is over, the state of war ceases between those that are in society, and are equally on both sides subjected to the fair determination of the law; because then there lies open the remedy of appeal for the past injury, and to prevent future harm: but where no such appeal is, as in the state of nature, for want of positive laws, and judges with authority to appeal to, the state of war once begun, continues, with a right to the innocent party to destroy the other whenever he can, until the aggressor offers peace, and desires reconciliation on such terms as may repair any wrongs he has already done, and secure the innocent for the future; nay, where an appeal to the law, and constituted judges, lies open, but the remedy is denied by a manifest perverting of justice, and a barefaced wresting of the laws to protect or indemnify the violence or injuries of some men, or party of men, there it is hard to imagine any thing but a state of war: for where-ever violence is used, and injury done, though by hands appointed to administer justice, it is still violence and injury, however coloured with the name, pretences, or forms of law, the end whereof being to protect and redress the innocent, by an unbiassed application of it, to all who are under it; where-ever that is not bona fide done, war is made upon the sufferers, who having no appeal on earth to right them, they are left to the only remedy in such cases, an appeal to heaven.

§. 21.

To avoid this state of war (wherein there is no appeal but to heaven, and wherein every the least difference is apt to end, where there is no authority to decide between the contenders) is one great reason of men’s putting themselves into society, and quitting the state of nature: for where there is an authority, a power on earth, from which relief can be had by appeal, there the continuance of the state of war is excluded, and the controversy is decided by that power. Had there been any such court, any superior jurisdiction on earth, to determine the right between Jephtha and the Ammonites, they had never come to a state of war: but we see he was forced to appeal to heaven. The Lord the Judge (says he) be judge this day between the children of Israel and the children of Ammon, Judg. xi. 27. and then prosecuting, and relying on his appeal, he leads out his army to battle: and therefore in such controversies, where the question is put, who shall be judge? It cannot be meant, who shall decide the controversy; every one knows what Jephtha here tells us, that the Lord the Judge shall judge. Where there is no judge on earth, the appeal lies to God in heaven. That question then cannot mean, who shall judge, whether another hath put himself in a state of war with me, and whether I may, as Jephtha did, appeal to heaven in it? of that I myself can only be judge in my own conscience, as I will answer it, at the great day, to the supreme judge of all men.
The problem with your argument is that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Trayvon was just walking thru. Zimmerman went up to him with a gun.

When an armed man meets an un-armed man, it is the armed man who intends to put the other man under his absolute power.


As far as the crap you said about liberals, your own post makes it clear that Locke was saying the one who favors war, is the bad guy. And I know liberals are definitely "anti-war". Conservatives are "for-war". They started the wars we've been fighting for the last 10 years. So Locke would not side with the cons (the pro-war crowd).

I don't see asking questions or approaching as aggressing. Do you? Besides you still don't have evidence of approaching. I don't see possession of a weapon as intent to use the weapon. Do you? That would be like saying possession of a fist is intent to use your fist. Who threw the first punch? Who was the first aggressor? Who contacted who with force? Who displayed their intent to harm? If you can answer any of those questions your smarter than the Jury. And if you can point to any evidence to back your case I can reply with even stronger evidence. However, there would be nothing to foster an absolute. In the mean time your just making wild unfounded assumptions and denying the accused presumption of innocence.
 
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I don't see talking or approaching as aggressing. Do you? I don't see possession of a weapon as intent to use the weapon. Do you? That would be like saying possession of a fist is intent to use your fist. Who threw the first punch? Who was the first aggressor? Who contacted who with force? Who displayed their intent to harm? If you can answer any of those questions your smarter than the Jury. And if you can point to any evidence to back your case I can reply with even stronger evidence. However, there would be nothing to foster an absolute. In the mean time your just making wild unfounded assumptions and denying the accused presumption of innocence.
When you are just walking through a neighborhood, do you expect someone to come walking up to you, out of the blew, someone you don't know, asking you what are you doing?

If someone did that to me, I'd tell'em, "It's none of your fuckin' business and get the fuck away from me, asshole!"
 
The problem with your argument is that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Trayvon was just walking thru. Zimmerman went up to him with a gun.

When an armed man meets an un-armed man, it is the armed man who intends to put the other man under his absolute power.


As far as the crap you said about liberals, your own post makes it clear that Locke was saying the one who favors war, is the bad guy. And I know liberals are definitely "anti-war". Conservatives are "for-war". They started the wars we've been fighting for the last 10 years. So Locke would not side with the cons (the pro-war crowd).

The problem with YOUR argument is that there is no evidence showing Zim to be the aggressor OR that he confronted Trayvon.
 
GZ was watching the neighborhood for would be criminals. A man walking around in the rain is suspicious if your neighborhood has been repeatedly robbed.
 
I don't see talking or approaching as aggressing. Do you? I don't see possession of a weapon as intent to use the weapon. Do you? That would be like saying possession of a fist is intent to use your fist. Who threw the first punch? Who was the first aggressor? Who contacted who with force? Who displayed their intent to harm? If you can answer any of those questions your smarter than the Jury. And if you can point to any evidence to back your case I can reply with even stronger evidence. However, there would be nothing to foster an absolute. In the mean time your just making wild unfounded assumptions and denying the accused presumption of innocence.
When you are just walking through a neighborhood, do you expect someone to come walking up to you, out of the blew, someone you don't know, asking you what are you doing?

If someone did that to me, I'd tell'em, "It's none of your fuckin' business and get the fuck away from me, asshole!"

In your scenario, no law was broken. Congratulations, it seems you can think of a legal confrontation. The moment it becomes illegal is when force is used. If you can answer who used force first then you can answer a question that none of the jury could with their exclusive access to all of the evidence. In the mean time Zimmerman has not only presumption of innocence but the injuries to back up his story. If it can be proven that Zimmerman was the first to use force then he should be serving out a prison sentence. But that objective thinking is absent among race hustlers and liberals alike. They want blood and solid black political support, even if they need a lynch a "presumed innocent" man to do it. Thus they rushed through a trial with zero evidence to back it up and denied Trayvon the very thing they presumed to seek. True justice. They didn't want justice. They wanted a trophy. They wanted the absence of the rule of law when applied against minorities. They wanted victim status. They wanted a legal handout. And why not? Social Justice philosophy demands it.
 
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LOL, this Liberal has no disagreement with the Liberal John Locke at all.

Most truly liberal people disagree relatively little with Lockeian philosophy. Of course, I'm referring to the liberals who have always been "liberal" without having to call themselves that because the word "progressive" became synonymous with anti-liberalism.
 
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The problem with your argument is that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Trayvon was just walking thru. Zimmerman went up to him with a gun.

When an armed man meets an un-armed man, it is the armed man who intends to put the other man under his absolute power.


As far as the crap you said about liberals, your own post makes it clear that Locke was saying the one who favors war, is the bad guy. And I know liberals are definitely "anti-war". Conservatives are "for-war". They started the wars we've been fighting for the last 10 years. So Locke would not side with the cons (the pro-war crowd).

Are you really trying to claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin??

Please. Other than the bullet hole, what physical damage did Zimmerman do to Martin?

Yet Martin broke Zimmerman's nose, cracked his skull against the concrete sidewalk, and gave him a black eye.


As far as Zimmerman having a gun.. Every person I meet throughout the day is meeting a person with a gun and at least one very sharp knife.

Does that give them permission to attack me, break my nose, give me a black eye, crack my head against the concrete floor?
 
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I don't see talking or approaching as aggressing. Do you? I don't see possession of a weapon as intent to use the weapon. Do you? That would be like saying possession of a fist is intent to use your fist. Who threw the first punch? Who was the first aggressor? Who contacted who with force? Who displayed their intent to harm? If you can answer any of those questions your smarter than the Jury. And if you can point to any evidence to back your case I can reply with even stronger evidence. However, there would be nothing to foster an absolute. In the mean time your just making wild unfounded assumptions and denying the accused presumption of innocence.
When you are just walking through a neighborhood, do you expect someone to come walking up to you, out of the blew, someone you don't know, asking you what are you doing?

If someone did that to me, I'd tell'em, "It's none of your fuckin' business and get the fuck away from me, asshole!"

In her interview with Piers Morgan, Rachel Jeantel said that Trayvon feared Zimmerman might be a sexual predator since there was no reason a strange man in his father's friend's neighborhood would be following him.

Straight young men think the only thing to do in a situation like that is beat the crap out of a man who might be a homosexual.

So you see, this has nothing to do with John Locke or war.
 
In your scenario, no law was broken. Congratulations, it seems you can think of a legal confrontation. The moment it becomes illegal is when force is used. If you can answer who used force first then you can answer a question that none of the jury could with their exclusive access to all of the evidence. In the mean time Zimmerman has not only presumption of innocence but the injuries to back up his story. If it can be proven that Zimmerman was the first to use force then he should be serving out a prison sentence. But that objective thinking is absent among race hustlers and liberals alike. They want blood and solid black political support, even if they need a lynch a "presumed innocent" man to do it. Thus they rushed through a trial with zero evidence to back it up and denied Trayvon the very thing they presumed to seek. True justice. They didn't want justice. They wanted a trophy. They wanted the absence of the rule of law when applied against minorities. They wanted victim status. They wanted a legal handout. And why not? Social Justice philosophy demands it.
The moment it becomes illegal, is when one party, denies the other party, their rights. There doesn't have to be force used for that to happen. When I'm walking down a public street and someone I don't know comes up to me and asks "what am I doing?", they are denying me my right to walk down that street in peace.

If I am not breaking any laws and am not infringing on anyone else's rights, it is none of anyone's fucking business what I am doing and they have no right to come up to me and ask me about it.
 
The problem with your argument is that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Trayvon was just walking thru. Zimmerman went up to him with a gun.

When an armed man meets an un-armed man, it is the armed man who intends to put the other man under his absolute power.


As far as the crap you said about liberals, your own post makes it clear that Locke was saying the one who favors war, is the bad guy. And I know liberals are definitely "anti-war". Conservatives are "for-war". They started the wars we've been fighting for the last 10 years. So Locke would not side with the cons (the pro-war crowd).

Are you really trying to claim that Zimmerman attacked Martin??

Please. Other than the bullet hole, what physical damage did Zimmerman do to Martin?

Yet Martin broke Zimmerman's nose, cracked his skull against the concrete sidewalk, and gave him a black eye.


As far as Zimmerman having a gun.. Every person I meet throughout the day is meeting a person with a gun and at least one very sharp knife.

Does that give them permission to attack me, break my nose, give me a black eye, crack my head against the concrete floor?
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It seems they think that Martin was justified in attacking Zimmerman (which means they really do believe in "stand your ground"), or perhaps, Zimmerman attacked Martin. In either case, the facts do not support their claims.
 
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In her interview with Piers Morgan, Rachel Jeantel said that Trayvon feared Zimmerman might be a sexual predator since there was no reason a strange man in his father's friend's neighborhood would be following him.

Straight young men think the only thing to do in a situation like that is beat the crap out of a man who might be a homosexual.

So you see, this has nothing to do with John Locke or war.
Anyone who comes up to me I don't know and asks me what I'm doing, I am definitely going to treat it as "aggression" and I certainly wouldn't wait for them to make the first move. As soon as they are within arms reach, I am on hyper-alert that we're about to "throw down" and am looking for any additional movement before I decide, "It's on!"

You don't even have to walk up to someone to start some shit. Staring a person down, is a sign of aggression.
 
It seems they think that Martin was justified in attacking Zimmerman (which means they really do believe in "stand your ground"), or perhaps, Zimmerman attacked Martin. In either case, the facts do not support their claims.
Zimmerman walked up to Martin; Martin didn't walk up to Zimmerman.

Zimmerman caused the confrontation.
 

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