Josh Duggar And The Message Of Forgiveness

[Hollie]

It's a load of bullshit...Since society does not forgive, nor forget any crime or slight against society..Your deluding yourself to think that this so called Christian nation has the capacity to forgive...Unless you have a great PR man...

Then we should change that.

I've thought we should motivate criminals to change their ways by permitting more expungement of records.

Bureau of Justice Statistics BJS - Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 30 States in 2005 Patterns from 2005 to 2010

3 IN 4 FORMER PRISONERS IN 30 STATES ARRESTED WITHIN 5 YEARS OF RELEASE

 

[Avatar4321]

For the left/libs "forgiveness" is only for those WHO they deem should get it

and that means. everyone who is a Democrat. No matter they are: an adulterer, a drowner of women, a Former KKK member, a homosexual who ran a underage brothel out of his home. AND their sick judgment of all Mankind goes on and on

oh did I mention. Anyone who is Conservative/Republican gets NO FORGIVINESS from them. they think they should automatically be sent to hell

that's a two faced hypocrite

If Josh Duggar owned up and paid his debt to society and served his time, I'd let him vote. Conservatives wouldn't.

He did.

 

[Ravi]

makes you wonder...........

if molesting children then pontificating against others as a danger to children isn't "evil" -- ?

then what is..??



oh right, those who rebuke his agenda, of course...

Well. I was always taught that Jesus especially frowned on those that harmeD innocents.

 

[Hollie]

Imagine this....

A man plans to buy his daughter a life-saving operation. So he goes to the bank and withdraw the necessary $10,000 in cash. But then a man steals his wallet and runs away. The mans daughter can't have her operation and so she dies.

After spending the money on drink, drugs and prostitutes, the thief feels remorse. His Christian upbringing tells him he should beg Christ for forgiveness. So he begs Christ for forgiveness. in his "mind" his jesus forgives him and his victims daughter is dead, should society say he just made a mistake and his jesus forgave him so lets move on.. Crimes on credit

Repentance isn't just feeling regret and remorse.

It's a holy mandate for a clear conscience regarding all the hurt and the harm you have caused people.

 

[Avatar4321]

If this family weren't rightwing 'Christian' nuts they would get ZERO support from the RWers of the world.

Actually, I had not thought about that. If this family was atheist, the RW would have already bought the ropes and found the tree that they would use. I don't see 'forgiveness' in that scenario.

It's ironic to see on the board this outpouring of compassion and forgiveness from the conservatives in this specific case,

when elsewhere on USMB you can see them all in for the returning of 'shaming' as a remedy for dealing with the sins of certain people.

Weird.

Its not ironic at all. You just can't help by lie about what conservatives do.

 

[Ravi]

Joe, I like your post because you get right down to the scandal of forgiveness, that it dismisses from all further pursuance some very terrible sins. Many books have been written positing an argument between the personifications of Mercy and Justice. Justice without mercy is heartless and offers no venue for redemption and mercy without justice ignores the victims of crimes inflicted by evil people.

In Jesus Christ, both mercy and justice merged, the sins of mankind which demanded reciprocity were taken by Christ, nailed to the cross so that remission of sins may be offered to all who seek it. This is the gospel and it is indeed good news.

You see, again, I don't buy that.

Even if there was a God, the notion that he will pardon murderers who beg his forgiveness but eternally burn adulterers who don't is just fucking crazy.

We'd never run a justice system like that. We'd meet out punishments in proportion to the Crime.

Adultery and murder are both sins and both capable of breaking our fellowship with a holy God.

Let me put it this way. If you had a wife and you either cheated on her or killed her best friend, would not either of those offenses break your relationship with her?

Hell is not some place where people are lit aflame and that imagery does much disservice to people's perception of hell. In fact, it's not even exactly a punishment for many, but rather a continuation of one's earthly decision to live apart from the love and goodness of God. When God withdraws his presence, what's left is an empty void of loneliness and misery, restlessness and wailing and gnashing of teeth. For many this will just be a miserable experience, but for others it will be sheer torture. Jesus describes a tormenting maggot that infests the flesh of murderers. Those who spent their lives in depraved mirth at the suffering of others will themselves be subjected to the most unthinkable punishment.

Right now, the Bible says God causes his rain to fall on the just and the unjust. Even unbelievers can love, have compassion, forgive, be charitable, and achieve varying levels of happiness. They do so drawing upon a foreign resource, for the Bible says that God alone is good and no goodness exists apart from him. In fact, we read that it's the goodness of God that draws us to repentance. (Romans 2:4) But this won't last forever, for one day God will take with him all who love him and leave destitute all who chose to reject him. God is a gentleman and forces himself on nobody. But when his presence is withdrawn, the sheer absence of his joy will be like sucking the air out of your lungs. The weight of hopeless, despair, and sadness will be tremendous and unenviable.

This isn't God punishing you for not bowing to him, this is God giving you what you wanted all alone, to be apart from him.
It doesn't have to be that way, Joe. God loves you and longs for you to accept his free gift of forgiveness. Do do I. Jesus paid a high price for your redemption and all he needs to hear is you to say yes to him.

I pray that you do.

Are you fucking kidding me?

 

[Moonglow]

It's a load of bullshit...Since society does not forgive, nor forget any crime or slight against society..Your deluding yourself to think that this so called Christian nation has the capacity to forgive...Unless you have a great PR man...

Then we should change that.

I've thought we should motivate criminals to change their ways by permitting more expungement of records.

Bureau of Justice Statistics BJS - Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 30 States in 2005 Patterns from 2005 to 2010

3 IN 4 FORMER PRISONERS IN 30 STATES ARRESTED WITHIN 5 YEARS OF RELEASE

They have made it to where you can't get a job.....

 

[Ravi]

In all fairness you have no idea what you would do. It's easy to lecture other parents what they should do with their children, but when it's your child, that's a whole different story.

My oldest boy turns 12 this week. Almost a teenager. His mother and I have done our best to teach him right from wrong, but we still fear for the decisions he will make in the coming years. I have to wonder how many of these people so eager to condemn the Duggar parents are themselves parents. I think not many, for real parents like myself would be a little more understanding. My kids already know if they commit crimes they will go to jail and we won't protect them, but secretly if the stakes were high, I don't know what I would do.

It seems more and more this issue isn't about liberals and conservatives, it's about parents vs those who have no idea what it means to be a parent and be up at night worrying about them. It's why we real parents don't judge so quickly.

If my son diddled his 5 year old sIbling he'd be in a world of hurt. Sad that you would excuse YOUR son.

 

[Avatar4321]

Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

If the responses are any indication, when they renounce Christ and start voting democrat.

 

[Ravi]

I just posted the same sorry I didn't see your post

One of her most prominent supporters was Pat Robertson, who, recall, also ran for president. He gave us a chilling preview of what electing a Christian extremist president in this country would bring about.

As we speak, we're already seeing what happens when an extremist is in the White House.

Yep...OBL finally gets tracked down and killed....Illegal immigration is down...the economy is up...and more American citizens are being treated like American Citizens. Oh, and Obamacare.

Damn! Only last week, I learned on this board that Obama was to blame for the Texas pool party "riot". Now, he is also responsible for Duggar?

You've got to hand it to Obama. He is a busy man!

No, but his spiritual father is.

Are you fucking kidding me?

 

[Ravi]

This is what fundie Christian theocracy would look like. 'Christian' child molesters getting a pass.

And getting congrats for it.

Jesus would actually require Duggars to submit to the law.

They did

Uh, no, they did not.

 

[Avatar4321]

When Michael Brown of Ferguson stole cigarillos, the Right dubbed him a thug who deserved to die.

Josh Duggar fingers a 4th grade girl and the Right makes him temporary Jesus.

Talk about perversion.

You should really stop lying If you want credibility.

Defending oneself is far different than attacking someone for something done years ago when the actual victims have already forgiven and moved on with their lives.

 

[Ravi]

Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

And in fact it's not without harm that scoffers continue to vilify who God has forgiven. Jesus gives a grave warning about idle words, that men will give an account of every idle word spoken. We're not talking about colloquial conversation, we're talking about destructive words and condemnations, especially against the house of God.

Satan continually accuses those who God forgave, and when the unregenerate of heart do the same, they demonstrate that they are indeed his servants.

How do know God forgave Duggars

Why should our forgiveness depend upon God?

Are you fucking kidding me?

 

[featherlite]

remember karla faye tucker and all those fundy weasels christer leaders crying that she shouldn't get the death penalty after butchering people because she found "jebus" in prison

Despicable people

I watched her story on Netflix. I don't really agree with the death penalty either, but yeah they were pretty weird. Everytime JKarla Faye opened her mouth, she justified every thing she ever did. She repulsed me. Still..I don't know

You are missing the fact that most of what he did was ill intent in his own heart and both children were from the same parents not a neighbor girl

Well, I guess that the Duggars must have told him when he was growing up that it is a lessor sin to molest your own younger siblings than to molest somebody else's child.

Joe, I like your post because you get right down to the scandal of forgiveness, that it dismisses from all further pursuance some very terrible sins. Many books have been written positing an argument between the personifications of Mercy and Justice. Justice without mercy is heartless and offers no venue for redemption and mercy without justice ignores the victims of crimes inflicted by evil people.

In Jesus Christ, both mercy and justice merged, the sins of mankind which demanded reciprocity were taken by Christ, nailed to the cross so that remission of sins may be offered to all who seek it. This is the gospel and it is indeed good news.

You see, again, I don't buy that.

Even if there was a God, the notion that he will pardon murderers who beg his forgiveness but eternally burn adulterers who don't is just fucking crazy.

We'd never run a justice system like that. We'd meet out punishments in proportion to the Crime.

Ideally yes, but even with all our laws in place...crime and punishment still don't always match and people running the courts / law enforcement can crooked.
At the very core of Christianity is equality for all and justice

In all fairness you have no idea what you would do. It's easy to lecture other parents what they should do with their children, but when it's your child, that's a whole different story.

My oldest boy turns 12 this week. Almost a teenager. His mother and I have done our best to teach him right from wrong, but we still fear for the decisions he will make in the coming years. I have to wonder how many of these people so eager to condemn the Duggar parents are themselves parents. I think not many, for real parents like myself would be a little more understanding. My kids already know if they commit crimes they will go to jail and we won't protect them, but secretly if the stakes were high, I don't know what I would do.

It seems more and more this issue isn't about liberals and conservatives, it's about parents vs those who have no idea what it means to be a parent and be up at night worrying about them. It's why we real parents don't judge so quickly.

If my son diddled his 5 year old sIbling he'd be in a world of hurt. Sad that you would excuse YOUR son.

>>>>>>>
Can you at least admit people handle things differently. Maybe they thought that was the best thing at the time. I have one family member who is always giving another family one more chance. It irks me to no end. I tell them...let her fall getting in trouble with the cops might be exactly what she needs.

In all fairness you have no idea what you would do. It's easy to lecture other parents what they should do with their children, but when it's your child, that's a whole different story.

My oldest boy turns 12 this week. Almost a teenager. His mother and I have done our best to teach him right from wrong, but we still fear for the decisions he will make in the coming years. I have to wonder how many of these people so eager to condemn the Duggar parents are themselves parents. I think not many, for real parents like myself would be a little more understanding. My kids already know if they commit crimes they will go to jail and we won't protect them, but secretly if the stakes were high, I don't know what I would do.

It seems more and more this issue isn't about liberals and conservatives, it's about parents vs those who have no idea what it means to be a parent and be up at night worrying about them. It's why we real parents don't judge so quickly.

If my son diddled his 5 year old sIbling he'd be in a world of hurt. Sad that you would excuse YOUR son.[/QUO

 

[Avatar4321]

It seems to me that Josh "diddle my sisters" Duggar gets a bit of a free pass from the other Christian club members simply because of his club affiliation.

That club membership sometimes is effective in swaying various parole boards.

Former Charles Manson follower gets parole Fox News

"He became a born-again Christian in prison, earned a master's degree and a doctorate in philosophy of religion and ministered to other inmates."

Had Josh been a Moslem or a Jew or if Bruce Davis had converted to Islam, I suspect the Christians in this thread would be much less forgiving of their crimes.

Some of you might recall the 'Christian' movement to spare axe murderer Carla Faye Tucker from the death penalty because she supposedly became a devout Christian while on death row.

And a Christian governor refused to stay the execution. What's your point, that Christians have disagreements?

Good...and I hope some Christian authorities take a good look at Josh Duggar.

You really have no reason to complain if anyone ever judges you harshly for your mistakes unless you change your ways.

 

[Avatar4321]

Foxfyre

demanding that one person bear the most severe penalty of law but give those we like pretty much a pass, it all becomes quite murky and the lines of justice become very blurred.

I think each of us has to search our own heart for what is appropriate in any given case.

none of our opinions have the power of any law to 'give passes' or 'severe' punishment..in our heart?


what does it mean to DEMAND when you are merely giving your opinion, you can't demand others agree with you..?


laws exist which seek to protect children like those sisters from any harm as clinically defined within the law.

their personal forgiveness is typical and does not preclude the law yet the law has not demanded penalty.


the reason duggar is being highlighted lately is because the creep did what he did and still has the nerve to politically pontificate over what is supposedly harmful to children...

maybe you could search your heart for understanding why others soundly rebuke his agenda.

Sorry, but I am of the school that a good idea is a good idea, a good concept is a good concept regardless of who thinks it up or who promotes it. I can appreciate that he has been a strong advocate for children while at the same time I have not, will not, cannot excuse or defend what Josh Duggar did. I don't expect anybody else to.

He has been publicly humiliated. He has resigned his professional position because of all the negative publicity and because he would be a detriment to the organization. But I simply refuse to pile on and join personal attacks on a person who has openly confessed and repented of his bad acts as a young teenager and for who there is no indication that he has ever continued in those bad acts.

If the victims of those bad acts now say there was no lasting harm, who say they have forgiven him and love him very much, who are we to continue to demand--"demand" defined as "an insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right:" or the insistence that he must now pay for his crimes--that he continue to be punished?

At what point can any person be allowed to live as the person he/she has become rather than as the person he/she once was?

He didn't resign his position because of negative publicity, he resigned it because he Got caught molesting children.

How can he be caught doing something he confessed to years ago?

Seriously it's one thing if it was hidden and covered.up.but it wasn't. It was confessed to. He went to the authorities as a teenager with his parents when they found out.

You guys are acting like he was caught molesting children in Sunday school two months ago as an adult.

You keep claiming we are hypocrites but you guys just show yourselves as the heartless powermongers you are.

This is progressive compassion? Ill pass. Give me Christians any day.

 

[Avatar4321]

It's a load of bullshit...Since society does not forgive, nor forget any crime or slight against society..Your deluding yourself to think that this so called Christian nation has the capacity to forgive...Unless you have a great PR man...

Then we should change that.

I've thought we should motivate criminals to change their ways by permitting more expungement of records.

Bureau of Justice Statistics BJS - Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 30 States in 2005 Patterns from 2005 to 2010

3 IN 4 FORMER PRISONERS IN 30 STATES ARRESTED WITHIN 5 YEARS OF RELEASE

Which is precisely my point. People serve their time but they still have their record hanging over them. So they are in a position where lose opportunities they could have had. So what do they do? They end up going back to their old ways.

 

[Avatar4321]

makes you wonder...........

if molesting children then pontificating against others as a danger to children isn't "evil" -- ?

then what is..??



oh right, those who rebuke his agenda, of course...

Well. I was always taught that Jesus especially frowned on those that harmeD innocents.

He also frown on being unforgiving.

In fact He clearly taught that not having forgiveness was one of the worst things you can do.

 

[Avatar4321]

This is what fundie Christian theocracy would look like. 'Christian' child molesters getting a pass.

And getting congrats for it.

Jesus would actually require Duggars to submit to the law.

They did

Uh, no, they did not.

Yeah they did. They reported it to the authorities when they found out about it.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

This is what fundie Christian theocracy would look like. 'Christian' child molesters getting a pass.

Hey, its not as though they're fetuses, you know.

Not surprising that the least "christian" of our posters think poor little victim Josh should be allowed to continue molesting little girls. Happily for Josh is that his wife will crank out new victims once every year or so.