depotoo
Diamond Member
- Sep 9, 2012
- 40,718
- 13,425
- 2,280
Let's see, Mohammad married A'isha when she was 6, consummated the marriage when she was 9. He was 53.
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Just read Koran/Quran: Some murderous, pedophilia scriptures.
- Thread starter bucs90
- Start date
Been reading a little at a time. English translated version. A few notes. Enjoy the religion of peace:
koran 47:4 Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.
koran 2:191 Slay unbelievers wherever you find them.
koran 22:19 Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.
koran 8:12 Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.
koran 9:5 When opportunity arises kill the infidels wherever you catch them.
koran 5:33 Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.
koran 9:123 Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.
koran 8:60 Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.
koran 8:65 The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.
koran 3:85 Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.
koran 3:28 Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.
koran 9:30 The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.
Summary of Sura verses dealing with dismemberment, homosexual and heterosexual pedophilia endorsed, allah is all deceiving, allah is unforgiving even to the repentant infidel.
koran Sura just means chapterkoran Sura 5:35 and Sura 8:12 Sura 9:5
koran Sura 9:80 no forgiveness
koran Sura 9:123 Murder the unbelievers around you and let them find harshness in you
koran Sura 13:42 ...Allah is all deceiving (the Bible tells us that the father of lies is Satan)
koran Sura 47:4 Clash with the unbelievers and smite their necks
koran Sura 52:24 Male homosexual Pedophilia endorsed
koran Sura 56:17 Male homosexual pedophilia
koran Sura 65:4 Prescribes sex with pre pubescent girls.
koran Sura 76:19 Male homosexual pedophilia.
No matter what anyone says, certainly a religion of peace and tolerance.
Let's see, Mohammad married A'isha when she was 6, consummated the marriage when she was 9. He was 53.koran Sura 76:19 Male homosexual pedophilia.
Hmmm this seems to me to say more about you- than the Koran.
Here is that verse from the Koran.
What is it about 'serving boys' that makes you think "pedophilia"
Ahmad Ali
And boys of everlasting youth will go about attending them. Looking at them you would think that they were pearls dispersed.
Ali Qarai
They will be waited upon by immortal youths, whom, were you to see them, you will suppose them to be scattered pearls.
Amhad Khan
Immortal youths shall surround them, waiting upon them; when you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls.
Arberry
Immortal youths shall go about them; when thou seest them, thou supposest them scattered pearls,
Corpus
And will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them (to be) pearls scattered.
Daryabadi
And there shall go round Unto them youths ever-young. When thou seest them thou wouldst deem them pearls unstrung.
Hilali & Khan
And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls.
Pickthall
There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls.
And that excuses Buca lying about the Koran?
Been reading a little at a time. English translated version. A few notes. Enjoy the religion of peace:
koran 47:4 Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.
koran 2:191 Slay unbelievers wherever you find them.
koran 22:19 Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.
koran 8:12 Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.
koran 9:5 When opportunity arises kill the infidels wherever you catch them.
koran 5:33 Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.
koran 9:123 Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.
koran 8:60 Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.
koran 8:65 The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.
koran 3:85 Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.
koran 3:28 Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.
koran 9:30 The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.
Summary of Sura verses dealing with dismemberment, homosexual and heterosexual pedophilia endorsed, allah is all deceiving, allah is unforgiving even to the repentant infidel.
koran Sura just means chapterkoran Sura 5:35 and Sura 8:12 Sura 9:5
koran Sura 9:80 no forgiveness
koran Sura 9:123 Murder the unbelievers around you and let them find harshness in you
koran Sura 13:42 ...Allah is all deceiving (the Bible tells us that the father of lies is Satan)
koran Sura 47:4 Clash with the unbelievers and smite their necks
koran Sura 52:24 Male homosexual Pedophilia endorsed
koran Sura 56:17 Male homosexual pedophilia
koran Sura 65:4 Prescribes sex with pre pubescent girls.
koran Sura 76:19 Male homosexual pedophilia.
No matter what anyone says, certainly a religion of peace and tolerance.
Based upon Buca's post- it would appear Christianity is a religion of lies.....
flacaltenn
Diamond Member
Let's see, Mohammad married A'isha when she was 6, consummated the marriage when she was 9. He was 53.koran Sura 76:19 Male homosexual pedophilia.
Hmmm this seems to me to say more about you- than the Koran.
Here is that verse from the Koran.
What is it about 'serving boys' that makes you think "pedophilia"
Ahmad Ali
And boys of everlasting youth will go about attending them. Looking at them you would think that they were pearls dispersed.
Ali Qarai
They will be waited upon by immortal youths, whom, were you to see them, you will suppose them to be scattered pearls.
Amhad Khan
Immortal youths shall surround them, waiting upon them; when you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls.
Arberry
Immortal youths shall go about them; when thou seest them, thou supposest them scattered pearls,
Corpus
And will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them (to be) pearls scattered.
Daryabadi
And there shall go round Unto them youths ever-young. When thou seest them thou wouldst deem them pearls unstrung.
Hilali & Khan
And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls.
Pickthall
There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls.
And that excuses Buca lying about the Koran?
There are a few that might not be accurate -- but on the WHOLE -- there's a lot of baggage there.
For instance ---
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And what is being done here is for you to give a RANGE of interpretations -- rather than the literal translations. Like in some kind of Koran for Dummies. Rather -- I would be swayed more by what it actually says -- and THEN read 6 or 8 different interpretations. .
I've looked up 6 or 8 given the source above -- and those summaries are fairly accurate.
***** HOWEVER -- I do sympathize when antagonistic people come in fresh with boosted quotes about what appears in your religion to be embarrassing or obnoxious quotes without understanding the times and circumstances in which they were written ----- OR the context and definitions of the terms..
The danger is ALWAYS -- in any scripture driven religion -- that some demented zealots will take a literal translation and try to move the clock BACK by a couple millenia.. And THAT is the current problem with about 15% to 25% of practicing Muslims worldwide..
guno
Gold Member
- Banned
- #86
Quran says if you marry a pre-puberty girl (a child)....you must wait 3 months before raping her.
QUOTING ISLAM: Top Islamic scholars' explanations of Qur'an 65:4 show that the verse assumes consummation of marriage with prepubescent girls
Quran says if you marry a pre-puberty girl (a child)....you must wait 3 months before raping her.
sounds like you white christian southerners
- Moderator
- #87
Been reading a little at a time. English translated version. A few notes. Enjoy the religion of peace:
You are such a faker. You haven't been "reading a little at a time" - you just copied this straight off the internet word for word. M Steven Gronka - Murder, homosexual and heterosexual... | Facebook
While some of the "translations" are accurate, others are leave out a great deal of context or mitigating portions of the quote.
For example:
koran 47:4 Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.
The context here is refering to meeting in battle or fighting so this "translation" is pretty misleading and leaves out a good bit and says nothing about "do not hanker for peace".
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.
koran 2:191 Slay unbelievers wherever you find them.
Another one missing a whole lot of important info...The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
The translation is:
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
But the historical context is: The Quran on War, peace and Justice
This emigration, known as the Hijrah, marked the beginning of an Islamic society in Madinah, in which the Prophet became the head of the state. It was not long before the polytheists of Makkah marched towards Madinah to wage war against Muslims and destroy the Islamic state of Madinah. This battle is known as the Battle of Badr. The verses 2.190-2.194, above were perhaps the first injunctions from God to Muslims to prepare themselves for fighting. It was obviously a war in the defense of their homeland and their Faith.
In verse 2.190, God instructs Muslims to fight back, but not to transgress, and remain just even during the battle. "They are told that material interests should not be the motivation for their fighting, that they should not take up arms against those were not in opposition to the true faith, that they should not resort to unscrupulous methods or to the indiscriminate killing and pillage which characterized the other wars. The excesses alluded to in this verse are acts such as taking up arms against women and children, the old and the injured, mutilation of the dead bodies of the enemy, uncalled for devastation through the destruction of fields and livestock, and other similar acts of injustice and brutality.
The Prophet prohibited all these acts. The real intent of the verse is to stress that force should be used only when its use is unavoidable, and only to the extent that is absolutely necessary." (see note 201, page 151, Towards Understanding the Quran, Volume 1)
Like cherry picking quotes from the bible - historical context is important.
koran 22:19 Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.
Sort of...but really, more standard religious rhetoric as can be found in the Bible - The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water
koran 9:5 When opportunity arises kill the infidels wherever you catch them.
Again - misleading.
Here's the quote: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
The context is from early in the history, when they were fighting the polytheists (pagans) who had persecuted them.g
koran 5:33 Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.
Umh..no...not exactly - in all the translations, it's "make war on Islam", not anywhere is it criticize.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
koran 9:123 Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.
This one is ok...
9:123 "O you who believe, fight those of the unbelievers near you and let them see how harsh you can be. Know that Allah is with the righteous."
and it mirrors and earlier one - ah, the wondeful tolerance of religions...
9:73 "O Prophet, fight the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be stern with them. Their abode is Hell, and what a terrible fate!"
koran 8:60 Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.
This one two, is a dishonest "translation" - here's what it actually says: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
koran 8:65 The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.
From the same source as above, which includes multiple translation sources:
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.
Essentially, God is telling them that even though they may be few in number, their "belief" will strengthen them. One translation sites "intellegence" the rest "understanding" - just standard religious warfare rhetoric of believers vs unbelievers. So this one is pretty accurate.
Next time, don't plagiarize and pretend you've been reading something you haven't. It's misleading to take cherry pick religious scripture - of any kind and present in a vacuum. It's done all the time with biblical verse and you all scream "context" and "it doesn't really mean this".
Here (Evil Bible Quotes) you can find many similar quotes relating to the bible and like yours, just as disengeniously represented - enjoy. At least I did a little more reading to reply than you did for your OP.
Last edited:
It's misleading to take cherry pick religious scripture - of any kind and present in a vacuum.
I can quote plenty of verses from the Quran to support my argument that it is not Gods words. Reading between the lines I think there is only one context to the entire Quran, which is Muhammad made it all up as a self serving plan to make people follow him, and he stole his material from earlier texts.
flacaltenn
Diamond Member
Been reading a little at a time. English translated version. A few notes. Enjoy the religion of peace:
You are such a faker. You haven't been "reading a little at a time" - you just copied this straight off the internet word for word. M Steven Gronka - Murder, homosexual and heterosexual... | Facebook
While some of the "translations" are accurate, others are leave out a great deal of context or mitigating portions of the quote.
For example:
koran 47:4 Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.
The context here is refering to meeting in battle or fighting so this "translation" is pretty misleading and leaves out a good bit and says nothing about "do not hanker for peace".
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.
koran 2:191 Slay unbelievers wherever you find them.
Another one missing a whole lot of important info...The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
The translation is:
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
But the historical context is: The Quran on War, peace and Justice
This emigration, known as the Hijrah, marked the beginning of an Islamic society in Madinah, in which the Prophet became the head of the state. It was not long before the polytheists of Makkah marched towards Madinah to wage war against Muslims and destroy the Islamic state of Madinah. This battle is known as the Battle of Badr. The verses 2.190-2.194, above were perhaps the first injunctions from God to Muslims to prepare themselves for fighting. It was obviously a war in the defense of their homeland and their Faith.
In verse 2.190, God instructs Muslims to fight back, but not to transgress, and remain just even during the battle. "They are told that material interests should not be the motivation for their fighting, that they should not take up arms against those were not in opposition to the true faith, that they should not resort to unscrupulous methods or to the indiscriminate killing and pillage which characterized the other wars. The excesses alluded to in this verse are acts such as taking up arms against women and children, the old and the injured, mutilation of the dead bodies of the enemy, uncalled for devastation through the destruction of fields and livestock, and other similar acts of injustice and brutality.
The Prophet prohibited all these acts. The real intent of the verse is to stress that force should be used only when its use is unavoidable, and only to the extent that is absolutely necessary." (see note 201, page 151, Towards Understanding the Quran, Volume 1)
Like cherry picking quotes from the bible - historical context is important.
koran 22:19 Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.
Sort of...but really, more standard religious rhetoric as can be found in the Bible - The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water
koran 9:5 When opportunity arises kill the infidels wherever you catch them.
Again - misleading.
Here's the quote: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
The context is from early in the history, when they were fighting the polytheists (pagans) who had persecuted them.g
koran 5:33 Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.
Umh..no...not exactly - in all the translations, it's "make war on Islam", not anywhere is it criticize.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
koran 9:123 Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.
This one is ok...
9:123 "O you who believe, fight those of the unbelievers near you and let them see how harsh you can be. Know that Allah is with the righteous."
and it mirrors and earlier one - ah, the wondeful tolerance of religions...
9:73 "O Prophet, fight the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be stern with them. Their abode is Hell, and what a terrible fate!"
koran 8:60 Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.
This one two, is a dishonest "translation" - here's what it actually says: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
koran 8:65 The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.
From the same source as above, which includes multiple translation sources:
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.
Essentially, God is telling them that even though they may be few in number, their "belief" will strengthen them. One translation sites "intellegence" the rest "understanding" - just standard religious warfare rhetoric of believers vs unbelievers. So this one is pretty accurate.
Next time, don't plagiarize and pretend you've been reading something you haven't. It's misleading to take cherry pick religious scripture - of any kind and present in a vacuum. It's done all the time with biblical verse and you all scream "context" and "it doesn't really mean this".
Here (Evil Bible Quotes) you can find many similar quotes relating to the bible and like yours, just as disengeniously represented - enjoy. At least I did a little more reading to reply than you did for your OP.
But when you use context with Koran 8:60 (for instance) and understand the previous instructions were to destroy infidels "as enemies of Allah" --- then the brief summary in the OP is NOT that far off -- is it???
Especially if you're one of the 10 or 15% that believe you're still in the 1500s and interpret these phrases as literally as our troops interpret "terms of engagement" for war.. And that's the issue really. Literal interpretation of scripture by militant Jihadists.
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Let's see, Mohammad married A'isha when she was 6, consummated the marriage when she was 9. He was 53.koran Sura 76:19 Male homosexual pedophilia.
Hmmm this seems to me to say more about you- than the Koran.
Here is that verse from the Koran.
What is it about 'serving boys' that makes you think "pedophilia"
Ahmad Ali
And boys of everlasting youth will go about attending them. Looking at them you would think that they were pearls dispersed.
Ali Qarai
They will be waited upon by immortal youths, whom, were you to see them, you will suppose them to be scattered pearls.
Amhad Khan
Immortal youths shall surround them, waiting upon them; when you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls.
Arberry
Immortal youths shall go about them; when thou seest them, thou supposest them scattered pearls,
Corpus
And will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them (to be) pearls scattered.
Daryabadi
And there shall go round Unto them youths ever-young. When thou seest them thou wouldst deem them pearls unstrung.
Hilali & Khan
And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls.
Pickthall
There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls.
And that excuses Buca lying about the Koran?
There are a few that might not be accurate -- but on the WHOLE -- there's a lot of baggage there.
For instance ---
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And what is being done here is for you to give a RANGE of interpretations -- rather than the literal translations. Like in some kind of Koran for Dummies. Rather -- I would be swayed more by what it actually says -- and THEN read 6 or 8 different interpretations. .
I've looked up 6 or 8 given the source above -- and those summaries are fairly accurate.
***** HOWEVER -- I do sympathize when antagonistic people come in fresh with boosted quotes about what appears in your religion to be embarrassing or obnoxious quotes without understanding the times and circumstances in which they were written ----- OR the context and definitions of the terms..
The danger is ALWAYS -- in any scripture driven religion -- that some demented zealots will take a literal translation and try to move the clock BACK by a couple millenia.. And THAT is the current problem with about 15% to 25% of practicing Muslims worldwide..
Well- I not only looked up the links- I copied and pasted one or more of the translations. You didn't dispute any of my translations- nor provide a quotation of any of Buc's claims that refuted mine.
Frankly not one of the summaries he made was accurate.
I agree with you- there is always a danger that people will abuse scriptures of any kind- that has happened throughout history.
But there are also those like Buc- who abuse scriptures as he did in the OP- to deliberately mislead about what those scriptures said.
I have seen this done to attack Jews, I have seen this done to attack Christians, and in this case, it is done to attack Muslims.
[Q
Next time, don't plagiarize and pretend you've been reading something you haven't. It's misleading to take cherry pick religious scripture - of any kind and present in a vacuum. It's done all the time with biblical verse and you all scream "context" and "it doesn't really mean this".
P.
You are being too kind.
Buc lied about his OP. And he posted lies about what was in the Koran.
While some were just merely misleading- some were just outright lies.
Been reading a little at a time. English translated version. A few notes. Enjoy the religion of peace:
You are such a faker. You haven't been "reading a little at a time" - you just copied this straight off the internet word for word. M Steven Gronka - Murder, homosexual and heterosexual... | Facebook
While some of the "translations" are accurate, others are leave out a great deal of context or mitigating portions of the quote.
For example:
koran 47:4 Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.
The context here is refering to meeting in battle or fighting so this "translation" is pretty misleading and leaves out a good bit and says nothing about "do not hanker for peace".
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.
koran 2:191 Slay unbelievers wherever you find them.
Another one missing a whole lot of important info...The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
The translation is:
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
But the historical context is: The Quran on War, peace and Justice
This emigration, known as the Hijrah, marked the beginning of an Islamic society in Madinah, in which the Prophet became the head of the state. It was not long before the polytheists of Makkah marched towards Madinah to wage war against Muslims and destroy the Islamic state of Madinah. This battle is known as the Battle of Badr. The verses 2.190-2.194, above were perhaps the first injunctions from God to Muslims to prepare themselves for fighting. It was obviously a war in the defense of their homeland and their Faith.
In verse 2.190, God instructs Muslims to fight back, but not to transgress, and remain just even during the battle. "They are told that material interests should not be the motivation for their fighting, that they should not take up arms against those were not in opposition to the true faith, that they should not resort to unscrupulous methods or to the indiscriminate killing and pillage which characterized the other wars. The excesses alluded to in this verse are acts such as taking up arms against women and children, the old and the injured, mutilation of the dead bodies of the enemy, uncalled for devastation through the destruction of fields and livestock, and other similar acts of injustice and brutality.
The Prophet prohibited all these acts. The real intent of the verse is to stress that force should be used only when its use is unavoidable, and only to the extent that is absolutely necessary." (see note 201, page 151, Towards Understanding the Quran, Volume 1)
Like cherry picking quotes from the bible - historical context is important.
koran 22:19 Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.
Sort of...but really, more standard religious rhetoric as can be found in the Bible - The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water
koran 9:5 When opportunity arises kill the infidels wherever you catch them.
Again - misleading.
Here's the quote: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
The context is from early in the history, when they were fighting the polytheists (pagans) who had persecuted them.g
koran 5:33 Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.
Umh..no...not exactly - in all the translations, it's "make war on Islam", not anywhere is it criticize.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
koran 9:123 Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.
This one is ok...
9:123 "O you who believe, fight those of the unbelievers near you and let them see how harsh you can be. Know that Allah is with the righteous."
and it mirrors and earlier one - ah, the wondeful tolerance of religions...
9:73 "O Prophet, fight the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be stern with them. Their abode is Hell, and what a terrible fate!"
koran 8:60 Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.
This one two, is a dishonest "translation" - here's what it actually says: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
koran 8:65 The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.
From the same source as above, which includes multiple translation sources:
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.
Essentially, God is telling them that even though they may be few in number, their "belief" will strengthen them. One translation sites "intellegence" the rest "understanding" - just standard religious warfare rhetoric of believers vs unbelievers. So this one is pretty accurate.
Next time, don't plagiarize and pretend you've been reading something you haven't. It's misleading to take cherry pick religious scripture - of any kind and present in a vacuum. It's done all the time with biblical verse and you all scream "context" and "it doesn't really mean this".
Here (Evil Bible Quotes) you can find many similar quotes relating to the bible and like yours, just as disengeniously represented - enjoy. At least I did a little more reading to reply than you did for your OP.
But when you use context with Koran 8:60 (for instance) and understand the previous instructions were to destroy infidels "as enemies of Allah" --- then the brief summary in the OP is NOT that far off -- is it???
Especially if you're one of the 10 or 15% that believe you're still in the 1500s and interpret these phrases as literally as our troops interpret "terms of engagement" for war.. And that's the issue really. Literal interpretation of scripture by militant Jihadists.
Been reading a little at a time. English translated version. A few notes. Enjoy the religion of peace:
You are such a faker. You haven't been "reading a little at a time" - you just copied this straight off the internet word for word. M Steven Gronka - Murder, homosexual and heterosexual... | Facebook
While some of the "translations" are accurate, others are leave out a great deal of context or mitigating portions of the quote.
For example:
koran 47:4 Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.
The context here is refering to meeting in battle or fighting so this "translation" is pretty misleading and leaves out a good bit and says nothing about "do not hanker for peace".
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.
koran 2:191 Slay unbelievers wherever you find them.
Another one missing a whole lot of important info...The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
The translation is:
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
But the historical context is: The Quran on War, peace and Justice
This emigration, known as the Hijrah, marked the beginning of an Islamic society in Madinah, in which the Prophet became the head of the state. It was not long before the polytheists of Makkah marched towards Madinah to wage war against Muslims and destroy the Islamic state of Madinah. This battle is known as the Battle of Badr. The verses 2.190-2.194, above were perhaps the first injunctions from God to Muslims to prepare themselves for fighting. It was obviously a war in the defense of their homeland and their Faith.
In verse 2.190, God instructs Muslims to fight back, but not to transgress, and remain just even during the battle. "They are told that material interests should not be the motivation for their fighting, that they should not take up arms against those were not in opposition to the true faith, that they should not resort to unscrupulous methods or to the indiscriminate killing and pillage which characterized the other wars. The excesses alluded to in this verse are acts such as taking up arms against women and children, the old and the injured, mutilation of the dead bodies of the enemy, uncalled for devastation through the destruction of fields and livestock, and other similar acts of injustice and brutality.
The Prophet prohibited all these acts. The real intent of the verse is to stress that force should be used only when its use is unavoidable, and only to the extent that is absolutely necessary." (see note 201, page 151, Towards Understanding the Quran, Volume 1)
Like cherry picking quotes from the bible - historical context is important.
koran 22:19 Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.
Sort of...but really, more standard religious rhetoric as can be found in the Bible - The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water
koran 9:5 When opportunity arises kill the infidels wherever you catch them.
Again - misleading.
Here's the quote: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
The context is from early in the history, when they were fighting the polytheists (pagans) who had persecuted them.g
koran 5:33 Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.
Umh..no...not exactly - in all the translations, it's "make war on Islam", not anywhere is it criticize.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
koran 9:123 Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.
This one is ok...
9:123 "O you who believe, fight those of the unbelievers near you and let them see how harsh you can be. Know that Allah is with the righteous."
and it mirrors and earlier one - ah, the wondeful tolerance of religions...
9:73 "O Prophet, fight the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be stern with them. Their abode is Hell, and what a terrible fate!"
koran 8:60 Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.
This one two, is a dishonest "translation" - here's what it actually says: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
koran 8:65 The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.
From the same source as above, which includes multiple translation sources:
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.
Essentially, God is telling them that even though they may be few in number, their "belief" will strengthen them. One translation sites "intellegence" the rest "understanding" - just standard religious warfare rhetoric of believers vs unbelievers. So this one is pretty accurate.
Next time, don't plagiarize and pretend you've been reading something you haven't. It's misleading to take cherry pick religious scripture - of any kind and present in a vacuum. It's done all the time with biblical verse and you all scream "context" and "it doesn't really mean this".
Here (Evil Bible Quotes) you can find many similar quotes relating to the bible and like yours, just as disengeniously represented - enjoy. At least I did a little more reading to reply than you did for your OP.
But when you use context with Koran 8:60 (for instance) and understand the previous instructions were to destroy infidels "as enemies of Allah" --- then the brief summary in the OP is NOT that far off -- is it???
Especially if you're one of the 10 or 15% that believe you're still in the 1500s and interpret these phrases as literally as our troops interpret "terms of engagement" for war.. And that's the issue really. Literal interpretation of scripture by militant Jihadists.
what i I don't understand- is why you comment on Koran's content- but don't actually provide quotes to support your statement.
here is what he claimed:
koran 8:60 Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.
Here is what 8:60 says- I am providing 4 translations- the closest to any of the translations to what he claims is "to strike terror into the enemies, of Allah and your enemies"- doesn't mention 'infidels' anywhere- not a single translation mentions 'infidels'- so why did he?
Sahih International: And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
Pickthall: Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.
Yusuf Ali: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
Shakir: And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.
Speaking of context- what about 8:61?
Sahih International: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Pickthall: And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, even He, is the Hearer, the Knower.
Yusuf Ali: But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
Shakir: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Muhammad Sarwar: If they (the unbelievers) propose peace, accept it and trust in God. God is All-hearing and All-knowing.
Why no mention of 8:61?
I think it is obvious- because 8:61 speaks of peace- not terrorizing.
flacaltenn
Diamond Member
Let's see, Mohammad married A'isha when she was 6, consummated the marriage when she was 9. He was 53.koran Sura 76:19 Male homosexual pedophilia.
Hmmm this seems to me to say more about you- than the Koran.
Here is that verse from the Koran.
What is it about 'serving boys' that makes you think "pedophilia"
Ahmad Ali
And boys of everlasting youth will go about attending them. Looking at them you would think that they were pearls dispersed.
Ali Qarai
They will be waited upon by immortal youths, whom, were you to see them, you will suppose them to be scattered pearls.
Amhad Khan
Immortal youths shall surround them, waiting upon them; when you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls.
Arberry
Immortal youths shall go about them; when thou seest them, thou supposest them scattered pearls,
Corpus
And will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them (to be) pearls scattered.
Daryabadi
And there shall go round Unto them youths ever-young. When thou seest them thou wouldst deem them pearls unstrung.
Hilali & Khan
And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls.
Pickthall
There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls.
And that excuses Buca lying about the Koran?
There are a few that might not be accurate -- but on the WHOLE -- there's a lot of baggage there.
For instance ---
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And what is being done here is for you to give a RANGE of interpretations -- rather than the literal translations. Like in some kind of Koran for Dummies. Rather -- I would be swayed more by what it actually says -- and THEN read 6 or 8 different interpretations. .
I've looked up 6 or 8 given the source above -- and those summaries are fairly accurate.
***** HOWEVER -- I do sympathize when antagonistic people come in fresh with boosted quotes about what appears in your religion to be embarrassing or obnoxious quotes without understanding the times and circumstances in which they were written ----- OR the context and definitions of the terms..
The danger is ALWAYS -- in any scripture driven religion -- that some demented zealots will take a literal translation and try to move the clock BACK by a couple millenia.. And THAT is the current problem with about 15% to 25% of practicing Muslims worldwide..
Well- I not only looked up the links- I copied and pasted one or more of the translations. You didn't dispute any of my translations- nor provide a quotation of any of Buc's claims that refuted mine.
Frankly not one of the summaries he made was accurate.
I agree with you- there is always a danger that people will abuse scriptures of any kind- that has happened throughout history.
But there are also those like Buc- who abuse scriptures as he did in the OP- to deliberately mislead about what those scriptures said.
I have seen this done to attack Jews, I have seen this done to attack Christians, and in this case, it is done to attack Muslims.
We agree on how this scripture interpretation is used as weapon by folks with pre-conceived notions about ANY religion.. But I disagree about the accuracy of the summaries given in the OP. Out of 6 or 8 that I checked. I found one that was a total head-scratcher, and another that's being interpreted in some (maybe devious) fashion. But the others were Totally acceptable face-value summaries..
In the Old Testament -- it was largely God making the threats and taking the vengeance. I find that the Koran reads more like a military guidebook for rules of engagement and conflict. At least -- the danger is -- it's easier to LITERALLY interpret it that way. There is virtually no tolerance or forgiveness for non-believers -- call them infidels or whatever you want. And they are assumed guilty of offending Allah by virtue that they are not pledged to his loyalty.. Hard to suppress that much baggage. And I'd LOVE to know how the 85% of "peaceful" Muslims find it acceptable to ignore all that...
Let's see, Mohammad married A'isha when she was 6, consummated the marriage when she was 9. He was 53.Hmmm this seems to me to say more about you- than the Koran.
Here is that verse from the Koran.
What is it about 'serving boys' that makes you think "pedophilia"
Ahmad Ali
And boys of everlasting youth will go about attending them. Looking at them you would think that they were pearls dispersed.
Ali Qarai
They will be waited upon by immortal youths, whom, were you to see them, you will suppose them to be scattered pearls.
Amhad Khan
Immortal youths shall surround them, waiting upon them; when you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls.
Arberry
Immortal youths shall go about them; when thou seest them, thou supposest them scattered pearls,
Corpus
And will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them (to be) pearls scattered.
Daryabadi
And there shall go round Unto them youths ever-young. When thou seest them thou wouldst deem them pearls unstrung.
Hilali & Khan
And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls.
Pickthall
There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls.
And that excuses Buca lying about the Koran?
There are a few that might not be accurate -- but on the WHOLE -- there's a lot of baggage there.
For instance ---
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And what is being done here is for you to give a RANGE of interpretations -- rather than the literal translations. Like in some kind of Koran for Dummies. Rather -- I would be swayed more by what it actually says -- and THEN read 6 or 8 different interpretations. .
I've looked up 6 or 8 given the source above -- and those summaries are fairly accurate.
***** HOWEVER -- I do sympathize when antagonistic people come in fresh with boosted quotes about what appears in your religion to be embarrassing or obnoxious quotes without understanding the times and circumstances in which they were written ----- OR the context and definitions of the terms..
The danger is ALWAYS -- in any scripture driven religion -- that some demented zealots will take a literal translation and try to move the clock BACK by a couple millenia.. And THAT is the current problem with about 15% to 25% of practicing Muslims worldwide..
Well- I not only looked up the links- I copied and pasted one or more of the translations. You didn't dispute any of my translations- nor provide a quotation of any of Buc's claims that refuted mine.
Frankly not one of the summaries he made was accurate.
I agree with you- there is always a danger that people will abuse scriptures of any kind- that has happened throughout history.
But there are also those like Buc- who abuse scriptures as he did in the OP- to deliberately mislead about what those scriptures said.
I have seen this done to attack Jews, I have seen this done to attack Christians, and in this case, it is done to attack Muslims.
We agree on how this scripture interpretation is used as weapon by folks with pre-conceived notions about ANY religion.. But I disagree about the accuracy of the summaries given in the OP. Out of 6 or 8 that I checked. I found one that was a total head-scratcher, and another that's being interpreted in some (maybe devious) fashion. But the others were Totally acceptable face-value summaries.....
Flacaltenn- I went case by case through I believe 8 of the summaries- a single post for a single summary- and provided quotes and interpretation- I would be interested in you commenting on each of those posts- I am up for an engaging conversation, but your general experience doesn't match my own research- so lets compare.
I stopped after awhile because it does take time- and not a single summary i looked at was entirely accurate- and those that were accurate were accurate only if you ignore the context of what comes before and after.
Let's see, Mohammad married A'isha when she was 6, consummated the marriage when she was 9. He was 53.Hmmm this seems to me to say more about you- than the Koran.
Here is that verse from the Koran.
What is it about 'serving boys' that makes you think "pedophilia"
Ahmad Ali
And boys of everlasting youth will go about attending them. Looking at them you would think that they were pearls dispersed.
Ali Qarai
They will be waited upon by immortal youths, whom, were you to see them, you will suppose them to be scattered pearls.
Amhad Khan
Immortal youths shall surround them, waiting upon them; when you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls.
Arberry
Immortal youths shall go about them; when thou seest them, thou supposest them scattered pearls,
Corpus
And will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them (to be) pearls scattered.
Daryabadi
And there shall go round Unto them youths ever-young. When thou seest them thou wouldst deem them pearls unstrung.
Hilali & Khan
And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls.
Pickthall
There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls.
And that excuses Buca lying about the Koran?
There are a few that might not be accurate -- but on the WHOLE -- there's a lot of baggage there.
For instance ---
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And what is being done here is for you to give a RANGE of interpretations -- rather than the literal translations. Like in some kind of Koran for Dummies. Rather -- I would be swayed more by what it actually says -- and THEN read 6 or 8 different interpretations. .
I've looked up 6 or 8 given the source above -- and those summaries are fairly accurate.
***** HOWEVER -- I do sympathize when antagonistic people come in fresh with boosted quotes about what appears in your religion to be embarrassing or obnoxious quotes without understanding the times and circumstances in which they were written ----- OR the context and definitions of the terms..
The danger is ALWAYS -- in any scripture driven religion -- that some demented zealots will take a literal translation and try to move the clock BACK by a couple millenia.. And THAT is the current problem with about 15% to 25% of practicing Muslims worldwide..
Well- I not only looked up the links- I copied and pasted one or more of the translations. You didn't dispute any of my translations- nor provide a quotation of any of Buc's claims that refuted mine.
Frankly not one of the summaries he made was accurate.
I agree with you- there is always a danger that people will abuse scriptures of any kind- that has happened throughout history.
But there are also those like Buc- who abuse scriptures as he did in the OP- to deliberately mislead about what those scriptures said.
I have seen this done to attack Jews, I have seen this done to attack Christians, and in this case, it is done to attack Muslims.
In the Old Testament -- it was largely God making the threats and taking the vengeance. I find that the Koran reads more like a military guidebook for rules of engagement and conflict. At least -- the danger is -- it's easier to LITERALLY interpret it that way. There is virtually no tolerance or forgiveness for non-believers -- call them infidels or whatever you want..
But I just posted a quote which says otherwise
Speaking of context- what about 8:61?
Sahih International: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Pickthall: And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, even He, is the Hearer, the Knower.
Yusuf Ali: But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
Shakir: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Muhammad Sarwar: If they (the unbelievers) propose peace, accept it and trust in God. God is All-hearing and All-knowing.
And how does the Koran refer to Jews and Christians?
Why does the Quran refer to Jews and Christians as kufar, or infidels? What kind of respect and tolerance is that?
The translation of the word kafir as infidel is a grave error. The word infidel means someone who does not believe in God. The Qur’an does not allege that Jews and Christians do not believe in God. On the contrary the Qur’an refers to Jews and Christians respectfully as “People of the Book” and says:
“And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).”
[Al-Qur’an 29:46]
flacaltenn
Diamond Member
Been reading a little at a time. English translated version. A few notes. Enjoy the religion of peace:
You are such a faker. You haven't been "reading a little at a time" - you just copied this straight off the internet word for word. M Steven Gronka - Murder, homosexual and heterosexual... | Facebook
While some of the "translations" are accurate, others are leave out a great deal of context or mitigating portions of the quote.
For example:
koran 47:4 Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.
The context here is refering to meeting in battle or fighting so this "translation" is pretty misleading and leaves out a good bit and says nothing about "do not hanker for peace".
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.
koran 2:191 Slay unbelievers wherever you find them.
Another one missing a whole lot of important info...The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
The translation is:
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
But the historical context is: The Quran on War, peace and Justice
This emigration, known as the Hijrah, marked the beginning of an Islamic society in Madinah, in which the Prophet became the head of the state. It was not long before the polytheists of Makkah marched towards Madinah to wage war against Muslims and destroy the Islamic state of Madinah. This battle is known as the Battle of Badr. The verses 2.190-2.194, above were perhaps the first injunctions from God to Muslims to prepare themselves for fighting. It was obviously a war in the defense of their homeland and their Faith.
In verse 2.190, God instructs Muslims to fight back, but not to transgress, and remain just even during the battle. "They are told that material interests should not be the motivation for their fighting, that they should not take up arms against those were not in opposition to the true faith, that they should not resort to unscrupulous methods or to the indiscriminate killing and pillage which characterized the other wars. The excesses alluded to in this verse are acts such as taking up arms against women and children, the old and the injured, mutilation of the dead bodies of the enemy, uncalled for devastation through the destruction of fields and livestock, and other similar acts of injustice and brutality.
The Prophet prohibited all these acts. The real intent of the verse is to stress that force should be used only when its use is unavoidable, and only to the extent that is absolutely necessary." (see note 201, page 151, Towards Understanding the Quran, Volume 1)
Like cherry picking quotes from the bible - historical context is important.
koran 22:19 Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.
Sort of...but really, more standard religious rhetoric as can be found in the Bible - The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water
koran 9:5 When opportunity arises kill the infidels wherever you catch them.
Again - misleading.
Here's the quote: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
The context is from early in the history, when they were fighting the polytheists (pagans) who had persecuted them.g
koran 5:33 Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.
Umh..no...not exactly - in all the translations, it's "make war on Islam", not anywhere is it criticize.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
koran 9:123 Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.
This one is ok...
9:123 "O you who believe, fight those of the unbelievers near you and let them see how harsh you can be. Know that Allah is with the righteous."
and it mirrors and earlier one - ah, the wondeful tolerance of religions...
9:73 "O Prophet, fight the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be stern with them. Their abode is Hell, and what a terrible fate!"
koran 8:60 Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.
This one two, is a dishonest "translation" - here's what it actually says: The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
koran 8:65 The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.
From the same source as above, which includes multiple translation sources:
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.
Essentially, God is telling them that even though they may be few in number, their "belief" will strengthen them. One translation sites "intellegence" the rest "understanding" - just standard religious warfare rhetoric of believers vs unbelievers. So this one is pretty accurate.
Next time, don't plagiarize and pretend you've been reading something you haven't. It's misleading to take cherry pick religious scripture - of any kind and present in a vacuum. It's done all the time with biblical verse and you all scream "context" and "it doesn't really mean this".
Here (Evil Bible Quotes) you can find many similar quotes relating to the bible and like yours, just as disengeniously represented - enjoy. At least I did a little more reading to reply than you did for your OP.
But when you use context with Koran 8:60 (for instance) and understand the previous instructions were to destroy infidels "as enemies of Allah" --- then the brief summary in the OP is NOT that far off -- is it???
Especially if you're one of the 10 or 15% that believe you're still in the 1500s and interpret these phrases as literally as our troops interpret "terms of engagement" for war.. And that's the issue really. Literal interpretation of scripture by militant Jihadists.
what i I don't understand- is why you comment on Koran's content- but don't actually provide quotes to support your statement.
here is what he claimed:
koran 8:60 Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.
Here is what 8:60 says- I am providing 4 translations- the closest to any of the translations to what he claims is "to strike terror into the enemies, of Allah and your enemies"- doesn't mention 'infidels' anywhere- not a single translation mentions 'infidels'- so why did he?
Sahih International: And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.
Pickthall: Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.
Yusuf Ali: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
Shakir: And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.
Speaking of context- what about 8:61?
Sahih International: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Pickthall: And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, even He, is the Hearer, the Knower.
Yusuf Ali: But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
Shakir: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Muhammad Sarwar: If they (the unbelievers) propose peace, accept it and trust in God. God is All-hearing and All-knowing.
Why no mention of 8:61?
I think it is obvious- because 8:61 speaks of peace- not terrorizing.
Well there you go.. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the interpretation of 8:60 in the OP summary.
Even mentions the terror word. And "peace" is a loaded concept when it comes to man's decisions about conflict resolution.. Peace often times requires complete submission. In fact the USA has insisted on complete submission as a pre-condition for peace. Similarly, the USA has named it's war operations "shock and awe" when it decides to attack. In order to "terrorize" the populace and impress the hawks..
The point is -- there's a unhealthy concentration of things that belong more in Sun Tzu "Art of War" than in a moral scripture. And it is RIPE for fundamentalist misuse and misinterpretation. The summaries in the OP are no more wrong than the FALSE interpretations that are made by the Islamic Extremists that seek to kill and destroy in the name of their religion. (and i'm relying on the "peacelful" Muslims for that judgement, that they ARE INDEED misinterpreted) .
flacaltenn
Diamond Member
Let's see, Mohammad married A'isha when she was 6, consummated the marriage when she was 9. He was 53.
And that excuses Buca lying about the Koran?
There are a few that might not be accurate -- but on the WHOLE -- there's a lot of baggage there.
For instance ---
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And what is being done here is for you to give a RANGE of interpretations -- rather than the literal translations. Like in some kind of Koran for Dummies. Rather -- I would be swayed more by what it actually says -- and THEN read 6 or 8 different interpretations. .
I've looked up 6 or 8 given the source above -- and those summaries are fairly accurate.
***** HOWEVER -- I do sympathize when antagonistic people come in fresh with boosted quotes about what appears in your religion to be embarrassing or obnoxious quotes without understanding the times and circumstances in which they were written ----- OR the context and definitions of the terms..
The danger is ALWAYS -- in any scripture driven religion -- that some demented zealots will take a literal translation and try to move the clock BACK by a couple millenia.. And THAT is the current problem with about 15% to 25% of practicing Muslims worldwide..
Well- I not only looked up the links- I copied and pasted one or more of the translations. You didn't dispute any of my translations- nor provide a quotation of any of Buc's claims that refuted mine.
Frankly not one of the summaries he made was accurate.
I agree with you- there is always a danger that people will abuse scriptures of any kind- that has happened throughout history.
But there are also those like Buc- who abuse scriptures as he did in the OP- to deliberately mislead about what those scriptures said.
I have seen this done to attack Jews, I have seen this done to attack Christians, and in this case, it is done to attack Muslims.
In the Old Testament -- it was largely God making the threats and taking the vengeance. I find that the Koran reads more like a military guidebook for rules of engagement and conflict. At least -- the danger is -- it's easier to LITERALLY interpret it that way. There is virtually no tolerance or forgiveness for non-believers -- call them infidels or whatever you want..
But I just posted a quote which says otherwise
Speaking of context- what about 8:61?
Sahih International: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Pickthall: And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, even He, is the Hearer, the Knower.
Yusuf Ali: But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
Shakir: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Muhammad Sarwar: If they (the unbelievers) propose peace, accept it and trust in God. God is All-hearing and All-knowing.
And how does the Koran refer to Jews and Christians?
Why does the Quran refer to Jews and Christians as kufar, or infidels? What kind of respect and tolerance is that?
The translation of the word kafir as infidel is a grave error. The word infidel means someone who does not believe in God. The Qur’an does not allege that Jews and Christians do not believe in God. On the contrary the Qur’an refers to Jews and Christians respectfully as “People of the Book” and says:
“And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).”
[Al-Qur’an 29:46]
Let's focus on ONE --- before we try to "debunk" any others. And my first post gave a literal translation of 5:33 for which the OP summary is entirely adequate. That's why Charlie Hebdot was targeted in Paris. Is it not???
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And that excuses Buca lying about the Koran?
There are a few that might not be accurate -- but on the WHOLE -- there's a lot of baggage there.
For instance ---
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
And what is being done here is for you to give a RANGE of interpretations -- rather than the literal translations. Like in some kind of Koran for Dummies. Rather -- I would be swayed more by what it actually says -- and THEN read 6 or 8 different interpretations. .
I've looked up 6 or 8 given the source above -- and those summaries are fairly accurate.
***** HOWEVER -- I do sympathize when antagonistic people come in fresh with boosted quotes about what appears in your religion to be embarrassing or obnoxious quotes without understanding the times and circumstances in which they were written ----- OR the context and definitions of the terms..
The danger is ALWAYS -- in any scripture driven religion -- that some demented zealots will take a literal translation and try to move the clock BACK by a couple millenia.. And THAT is the current problem with about 15% to 25% of practicing Muslims worldwide..
Well- I not only looked up the links- I copied and pasted one or more of the translations. You didn't dispute any of my translations- nor provide a quotation of any of Buc's claims that refuted mine.
Frankly not one of the summaries he made was accurate.
I agree with you- there is always a danger that people will abuse scriptures of any kind- that has happened throughout history.
But there are also those like Buc- who abuse scriptures as he did in the OP- to deliberately mislead about what those scriptures said.
I have seen this done to attack Jews, I have seen this done to attack Christians, and in this case, it is done to attack Muslims.
In the Old Testament -- it was largely God making the threats and taking the vengeance. I find that the Koran reads more like a military guidebook for rules of engagement and conflict. At least -- the danger is -- it's easier to LITERALLY interpret it that way. There is virtually no tolerance or forgiveness for non-believers -- call them infidels or whatever you want..
But I just posted a quote which says otherwise
Speaking of context- what about 8:61?
Sahih International: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Pickthall: And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, even He, is the Hearer, the Knower.
Yusuf Ali: But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
Shakir: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Muhammad Sarwar: If they (the unbelievers) propose peace, accept it and trust in God. God is All-hearing and All-knowing.
And how does the Koran refer to Jews and Christians?
Why does the Quran refer to Jews and Christians as kufar, or infidels? What kind of respect and tolerance is that?
The translation of the word kafir as infidel is a grave error. The word infidel means someone who does not believe in God. The Qur’an does not allege that Jews and Christians do not believe in God. On the contrary the Qur’an refers to Jews and Christians respectfully as “People of the Book” and says:
“And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).”
[Al-Qur’an 29:46]
Let's focus on ONE --- before we try to "debunk" any others. And my first post gave a literal translation of 5:33 for which the OP summary is entirely adequate. That's why Charlie Hebdot was targeted in Paris. Is it not???
Well before you joined this thread- I had 'debunked' several- and you haven't responded to any of those posts. The first post I see from you is #85, and I don't see a mention of 5.33- perhaps that was your link?
I don't agree that the summary is 'entirely adequate'
What Buc said:
koran 5:33 Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam.
Actual translations of 5:33- nothing about 'if they criticize Islam- those who wage war against God(Allah) and his messenger(Mohammed)- and 'strive after corruption.
Sahih International: Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,
Pickthall: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
Yusuf Ali: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
Shakir: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
Muhammad Sarwar: The only proper recompense for those who fight against God and His Messenger and try to spread evil in the land is to be killed, crucified, or either to have one of their hands and feet cut from the opposite side or to be sent into exile. These are to disgrace them in this life and they will suffer a great torment in the life hereafter.
Compare now this now to the Bible
“Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death” (v. 16).
- Leviticus 24:10–16
Been reading a little at a time. English translated version. A few notes. Enjoy the religion of peace:
koran 22:19 Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.
.
See- here it becomes more and more clear that you are engaging in some sort of anti-religious lies to incite hatred against Muslims- because of course that verse doesn't say that- and the other verses make it very clear what it does say
22:17
God will judge between those who believe and the Jews, the Sabians, Christians and the Magians and the idolaters, on the Day of Judgement. Verily God is witness to everything.
22:18
Do you see how all things in heavens and the earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, trees and beasts, and men in abundance, pay homage to God? Yet there are many who deserve the punishment. And whosoever God disgraces will have none to raise him up in honour. God does verily as He will.
22:19
These two (believers and unbelievers) are disputants, who contend about their Lord. But they who disbelieve will be fitted out with garments of flames. Boiling water will be poured down over their heads
Who will be fitting the unbelievers with garments of flames? God will. Pretty sick.
But God is often pretty sick in the Bible too.
Revelation 14:10,11
"He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever;"
If we want to start judging "God" by how he punishes those who 'sin'- that will not go well.
So going back to what Buc 'summarized'- and the actual translations
Buc:koran 22:19 Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.
.
See- here it becomes more and more clear that you are engaging in some sort of anti-religious lies to incite hatred against Muslims- because of course that verse doesn't say that- and the other verses make it very clear what it does say
22:17
God will judge between those who believe and the Jews, the Sabians, Christians and the Magians and the idolaters, on the Day of Judgement. Verily God is witness to everything.
22:18
Do you see how all things in heavens and the earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, trees and beasts, and men in abundance, pay homage to God? Yet there are many who deserve the punishment. And whosoever God disgraces will have none to raise him up in honour. God does verily as He will.
22:19
These two (believers and unbelievers) are disputants, who contend about their Lord. But they who disbelieve will be fitted out with garments of flames. Boiling water will be poured down over their heads
Who will be fitting the unbelievers with garments of flames? God will. Pretty sick.
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