Justify: Why do we have such a massive military?

[edthecynic]

Military spending is a GOP slush fund and a money laundering operation. The GOP funnel taxpayer money to corporations producing military products and who pay for lobbyists who contribute to GOP candidates who funnel more taxpayer dollars to the corporations when elected.

 

[kiwiman127]

If we closed half of our military bases, how much would that save?
This all goes back to what Eisenhower warned America about,,the Military-Industrial Complex. If we had listened to Ike, would we even have a deficit? I doubt it.

 

[OODA_Loop]

If we have to support someone with entitlements....... it should be the military.

And if they are keeping us safe with more than we really need of the most kick ass, highest tech weapon systems ....I will err that way in an abundance of caution.

 

[bucs90]

If we have to support someone with entitlements....... it should be the military.

And if they are keeping us safe with more than we really need of the most kick ass, highest tech weapon systems ....I will err that way in an abundance of caution.

Well, military employees aren't getting an "entitlement", they work for that money. ALL govt employees do. Cops, firemen, teachers. Righties like to bash those folks, but they all work for that money.

No one would suggest havine "more than we really need" of cops or police equipment. Never!

So why military spending? Spend ONLY what is the minimum necessary to keep the homeland safe. As I said, entitlements are indeed another topic for another thread and a legit topic. But THIS thread is for this topic.

Its by far not the perfect fix. Nothing is. But a lot of tough decisions are gonna have to be made, in EVERY aspect of government spending.

The military is a sacred cow of the right. So, this topic must be discussed.

Its hard to justify having bases all over the world, when we have no real threat in our own hemisphere.

 

[blackhawk]

Are we the World Police? I know people argue that we are. WHY? Why us? Why not slash all that spending and downsize. Let the world police itself.
I believe the last time we did something like the was in the 1930s during that time Hitler and the Nazi party rose to power in Germany and Imperial Japan rose to power in the pacific. The world did a very poor job of policing it's self and despite our small, poorly trained and equipped military we still ended up in a second world war there have been numerous conflicts since then but there has not been another world war since the U.S. began maintaining a large standing military take from this what you will.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The defense lobby is why we have such a massive military.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are we the World Police? I know people argue that we are. WHY? Why us? Why not slash all that spending and downsize. Let the world police itself.
I believe the last time we did something like the was in the 1930s during that time Hitler and the Nazi party rose to power in Germany and Imperial Japan rose to power in the pacific. The world did a very poor job of policing it's self and despite our small, poorly trained and equipped military we still ended up in a second world war there have been numerous conflicts since then but there has not been another world war since the U.S. began maintaining a large standing military take from this what you will.

Your history is wrong. We meddled in Europe's affairs in 1917 and ended up causing the humiliation of Germany which laid the groundwork for Nazism.

 

[OODA_Loop]

So why military spending? Spend ONLY what is the minimum necessary to keep the homeland safe.

Its hard to justify having bases all over the world, when we have no real threat in our own hemisphere.

Which bases do you seek to close ?

 

[GuyPinestra]

Ok. Many have said we need to have the tough talks about budget. Alright. Lets begin.

Military. Why do we have/need the biggest military, by far, in the world? Questions:

1- Our neighbors are Mexico and Canada. We are surrounded by vast oceans. We have one of the most easily defensable plots of land in the world. In fact, we barely have a legit threat in the entire hemisphere.

2- Are we the World Police? I know people argue that we are. WHY? Why us? Why not slash all that spending and downsize. Let the world police itself.

So, either we are the World Police, and we are OK with our tax money being spent to police the rest of the world....or we need to seriously downsize. We dont have an immediate threat anywhere in the hemisphere. Even if we slashed our military with massive cuts, we'd still be unmatched by any other nation.

Entitlements can be the next talk. The next thread. THIS thread is on this topic. So.....from righties and lefties...what is the justification for this massive military? We need to JUSTIFY ever tax dollar spent. Its the fiscally responsible thing to do. Justify it.

1.) To drain massive amounts of money from the taxpayers and fund the MIC.

2.) To protect the varied and valuable worldwide interests of our 'elite' class, both business and political.

 

[deltex1]

Another point to consider is that we need a strong military even if our policies are weak...at least we know if our policy is challenged we can show our muscle. If our policies are weak AND our military is weak......big trouble. Again... I can support a smaller but technologically invulnerable military...coupled with the announced intention of ruthlessly using it as necessary.

 

[blackhawk]

Are we the World Police? I know people argue that we are. WHY? Why us? Why not slash all that spending and downsize. Let the world police itself.
I believe the last time we did something like the was in the 1930s during that time Hitler and the Nazi party rose to power in Germany and Imperial Japan rose to power in the pacific. The world did a very poor job of policing it's self and despite our small, poorly trained and equipped military we still ended up in a second world war there have been numerous conflicts since then but there has not been another world war since the U.S. began maintaining a large standing military take from this what you will.

Your history is wrong. We meddled in Europe's affairs in 1917 and ended up causing the humiliation of Germany which laid the groundwork for Nazism.

Meddled is that what we did when the German U-boats started going after American passenger and merchant ships? If Germany had not started that practice there is a very good chance the U.S. might never have entered the war.The humiliation of Germany was caused by the Versailles Treaty and the reparations it imposed on Germany which many American and British leaders thought was to harsh but the French would not budge on that along with the 29 crash is what laid the groundwork for the raise of the Nazi party not our entering the war in 1917. None of this changes the fact that as the Nazis grew in power and began military conquest the world did nothing to intervene and despite us having the type of military I have already described and a strong isolationist movement we still ended up in WW2 . This all goes back to original point of this thread that being having a small military and letting the world police it's self did not work then and I doubt it would work today.

 

[jasonnfree]

Ok. Many have said we need to have the tough talks about budget. Alright. Lets begin.

Military. Why do we have/need the biggest military, by far, in the world? Questions:

1- Our neighbors are Mexico and Canada. We are surrounded by vast oceans. We have one of the most easily defensable plots of land in the world. In fact, we barely have a legit threat in the entire hemisphere.

2- Are we the World Police? I know people argue that we are. WHY? Why us? Why not slash all that spending and downsize. Let the world police itself.

So, either we are the World Police, and we are OK with our tax money being spent to police the rest of the world....or we need to seriously downsize. We dont have an immediate threat anywhere in the hemisphere. Even if we slashed our military with massive cuts, we'd still be unmatched by any other nation.

Entitlements can be the next talk. The next thread. THIS thread is on this topic. So.....from righties and lefties...what is the justification for this massive military? We need to JUSTIFY ever tax dollar spent. Its the fiscally responsible thing to do. Justify it.

To protect "our interests" meaning corporations doing business worldwide. This includes shipping lanes for oil that can be sold on the world market.
To enrich defense contractors who keep coming out with products with the latest bells and whistles.
The more military actions we're involved in, the more advancement possibilities for career officers.

 

[Samson]

Are we the World Police? I know people argue that we are. WHY? Why us? Why not slash all that spending and downsize. Let the world police itself.
I believe the last time we did something like the was in the 1930s during that time Hitler and the Nazi party rose to power in Germany and Imperial Japan rose to power in the pacific. The world did a very poor job of policing it's self and despite our small, poorly trained and equipped military we still ended up in a second world war there have been numerous conflicts since then but there has not been another world war since the U.S. began maintaining a large standing military take from this what you will.

Your history is wrong. We meddled in Europe's affairs in 1917 and ended up causing the humiliation of Germany which laid the groundwork for Nazism.

Actually YOUR history could use a little reality check: Germany was practically beat when we joined the war, and the Allies, mainly France and UK dictated the terms of armistice. Finally there were a number of factors which "laid the groundwork for Nazism," one of which was the unfavorable terms of the armistice.

Now, back to the present: Much has been written in this thread about the fact that the USA has no credable enemies, i.e. countries that could actually invade the USA.

Maybe this is because we have a very large, effective military?

Could it be half its present size, and still be as effective?

Should we try to find out?


Before answering this last question, realise the military today is not the military of 1935, when armaments and the personnel needed to man them were relatively simple: most farmers could jump off their tractor and drive a tank. Airplanes did not exceed about 450 mph., and "radar" was a novelty. Significantly reducing the size of the military TODAY means it will take DECADES to rearm and reman those weapon systems and logistical support for them.

 

[Samson]

To protect "our interests" meaning corporations doing business worldwide. This includes shipping lanes for oil that can be sold on the world market.
To enrich defense contractors who keep coming out with products with the latest bells and whistles.
The more military actions we're involved in, the more advancement possibilities for career officers.

The USA and every other nation (except American Indians, and their story is certainly not an example anyone follows) has always protected its foreign business interests. They've also always used defense contractors. ALWAYS.

It is obvious that the more the military is used, the more personnel are needed.

Thanks for playing.

 

[bucs90]

So why military spending? Spend ONLY what is the minimum necessary to keep the homeland safe.

Its hard to justify having bases all over the world, when we have no real threat in our own hemisphere.

Which bases do you seek to close ?

Im not sure, Im not a military expert, so I dont know which ones are absolutely crucial, and which ones we could survive without.

But we'd have to define our role first. If accept we are World Police, and that our taxes will have to fund that role, basically being the "welfare military" for much of the free world, then we'll need a lot more bases than we "need" for just homeland security.

But, if we decide to tell the world to police itself, and we only have to worry about our homeland, then there are a LOT of bases we can close.

I simply said Justify it. If we ARE the World Police, and the world is less violent as a result, then thats fine. If global stability can ONLY be done with the US being world police, then sure, we are justified in all this spending.

Is that the role we're gonna take? Are we gonna let Europe and Asia and Africa basically take military welfare in the form of US citizens funding a World Police?

 

[Seawytch]

The one with the most toys wins.

I remember some guy warning about the military industrial complex. Who was that guy?!?

 

[g5000]

Before answering this last question, realise the military today is not the military of 1935, when armaments and the personnel needed to man them were relatively simple: most farmers could jump off their tractor and drive a tank. Airplanes did not exceed about 450 mph., and "radar" was a novelty. Significantly reducing the size of the military TODAY means it will take DECADES to rearm and reman those weapon systems and logistical support for them.

What a bunch of horseshit. Seriously.

 

[Dubya]

I'm fine with cutting the defense budget....
But then everything else takes a hit as well.

Right Libs.It's all about everybody paying their "fair share"...

Since you believe in paying their "fair share"..., the red states get more federal spending than the blue, so why don't we move those military bases out of their states and cut back on spending money there. They don't pay the taxes of a state like New Jersey that gets $0.67 in federal spending for each tax dollar sent. We could shift all kinds of things to Fort Dix and use that idle space. Since the people of NJ are paying so much in taxes, they should get something from the federal spending and not spend it in states that can't get their act together, because their policies prevent growth.

Look at all the money our federal government wasted on education in the South, because it's obvious those assholes have never learned a thing.

Since a federal dollar has to be spent somewhere and in some state, let's shift the spending to the states paying the taxes and give them their "fair share"...

Now on the issue of why we spend so much for our military, I'd say outside of the spending for our recent wars, the massive expense reflects what the best technology costs. We don't have a hugh army and navy (which includes Marines) for the size of our nation, but what we do have is very high quality and not high quantity. Our Air Force has both. Once a certain level of technology is reached, the weapons become very expensive.

There are abuses, but it's usually the members of Congress trying to get something for their states and against the desires of military professionals, who are more interested in getting the most defense out of a dollar.

 

[Dubya]

Are we the World Police? I know people argue that we are. WHY? Why us? Why not slash all that spending and downsize. Let the world police itself.
I believe the last time we did something like the was in the 1930s during that time Hitler and the Nazi party rose to power in Germany and Imperial Japan rose to power in the pacific. The world did a very poor job of policing it's self and despite our small, poorly trained and equipped military we still ended up in a second world war there have been numerous conflicts since then but there has not been another world war since the U.S. began maintaining a large standing military take from this what you will.

Your history is wrong. We meddled in Europe's affairs in 1917 and ended up causing the humiliation of Germany which laid the groundwork for Nazism.

Actually YOUR history could use a little reality check: Germany was practically beat when we joined the war, and the Allies, mainly France and UK dictated the terms of armistice. Finally there were a number of factors which "laid the groundwork for Nazism," one of which was the unfavorable terms of the armistice.

Now, back to the present: Much has been written in this thread about the fact that the USA has no credable enemies, i.e. countries that could actually invade the USA.

Maybe this is because we have a very large, effective military?

Could it be half its present size, and still be as effective?

Should we try to find out?


Before answering this last question, realise the military today is not the military of 1935, when armaments and the personnel needed to man them were relatively simple: most farmers could jump off their tractor and drive a tank. Airplanes did not exceed about 450 mph., and "radar" was a novelty. Significantly reducing the size of the military TODAY means it will take DECADES to rearm and reman those weapon systems and logistical support for them.

Your history seems to be off. I think WWI ground to a stalemate before we entered the war and neither side had the energy to wrestle and pin the other. That was the picture I've always seen painted and the history of the battles reflects that.

 

[Darkwind]

If we purchase 1 generation 5 fighter at 75 million dollars, but the Chinese purchase 10 generation 4 fighters for 75 million, they will eventually defeat us by numbers alone. Our technology ensures we are the best, but even the best prize fighter can be taken down by a mob.

Take the top 10 standing armies in the world..

10.Russia AP:321,000
9.Iraq AP:375,000
8.Turkey AP:402,000
7.Vietnam AP:412,000
6.USA AP:477,800
5.Pakistan AP:550,000
4.South Korea AP:560,000
3.North Korea AP:950,000
2.India AP:1,100,000
1.China AP:1,600,000

Those highlighted in red are definate enemies of the United States. India and Turkey I would not count as friends.

So, we have 7,108,00 troops against the USA's 477,000........That means we are out manned nearly 15:1. This does not include India and Turkey.

Find something else to cut because we're barely able to hold our own.