Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[jon_berzerk]

Execute violent gun criminals after due process.

what about other violent criminals

 

[yeo]

Well - no, they're not. A frequent conflation, driven by demonizers of the right.

Basically liberal means "let it be" while left (or right) means "force it". That's three different things.

If you look up the words in the Webster dictionary, you will find that, in terms of their political definition, liberal and leftist are synonymous, and both can be used interchangeably as a noun or as a verb.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Well - no, they're not. A frequent conflation, driven by demonizers of the right.

Basically liberal means "let it be" while left (or right) means "force it". That's three different things.

If you look up the words in the Webster dictionary, you will find that, in terms of their political definition, liberal and leftist are synonymous, and both can be used interchangeably as a noun or as a verb.

Liberals do all kinds of silly things to convince themseles they aren't leftists.

 

[Geaux4it]

My plan to keep guns from them is to shoot them before they shoot me.

Good plan

-Geaux

 

[Pogo]

Well - no, they're not. A frequent conflation, driven by demonizers of the right.

Basically liberal means "let it be" while left (or right) means "force it". That's three different things.

If you look up the words in the Webster dictionary, you will find that, in terms of their political definition, liberal and leftist are synonymous, and both can be used interchangeably as a noun or as a verb.

Webster isn't a political science book but the first link I get says:
lib·er·al (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
1.
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

-- which in turn gives:
lib·er·al·ism (lbr--lzm, lbr-)
n.
1. The state or quality of being liberal.
2.
a. A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority. -- Free Dic


Like it or not, they're not the same thing at all. Liberalism is what founded this country and gave us the Second Amendment, so be careful what you demonize.

Redefining the Political Spectrum

Here's a quick Cliff's Notes:
Declaring "all men are created equal" is Liberalism. Trying to force it with affirmative action is leftism.

 

[Spoonman]

as long as liberal laws prevent people from protecting themselves gun violence will always be an issue. criminals know they have the edge

Gonzaga Students Hit With Probation for Pulling Gun on Intruder | ABC News Blogs - Yahoo

..Gonzaga Students Hit With Probation for Pulling Gun on Intruder
..By ABC News
..Posts..By ABC News | ABC News Blogs – 2 hours 43 minutes ago
....Email0Share149
Share0Print.....
.....
ABC News' Mosheh Gains and Sandra Petrykowski report:

Two Gonzaga University students are on indefinite probation for pulling out a gun when an intruder allegedly tried to force his way into their university-owned apartment.

Erik Fagan and Dan McIntosh were notified Sunday in a letter from the Spokane, Wash., university they had been placed on indefinite probation for violating the school's weapons policy Oct. 24 when a six-time felon knocked on their door and allegedly demanded money.

Fagan said he answered the door to their apartment when he confronted John Taylor, a repeat offender who told him he'd just gotten out of jail.

 

[Geaux4it]

I still say the way out of this is to kill all those thugs we can who want to use guns to kill or rob other people.

Survival of the fittest

-Geaux

 

[71sportstourer]

When drunk driving was rampant, the legal limit was tightened. When lung cancer was rampant, cigarette machines disappeared and smoking in public curtailed. When gun violence is rampant, conservatives talk about Thomas Jefferson.

No wonder they've won the pop vote for the white house once in two decades. Good work.

 

[yeo]

Webster isn't a political science book but the first link I get says:
lib·er·al (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
1.
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Political terms, such as liberal, have been used for years, decades and centuries, but their definitions have acquired new meaning over the course of time. The main modern source for defining words in the English language, the Merriam-Webster dictionary, offers as its first definition of liberal, "believing that government should be active in supporting social and political change" (I noticed you failed to include that most important definition.) It also gives leftist and liberal as synonyms. You will find most modern political sources give a similar political meaning to liberal or liberalism. I wonder if you believe firmly enough in your political positions, since you seem uncomfortable with the title liberal and all the government- involvement dogma attached to it. I, for one, am not ashamed to label myself a political conservative, and am comfortable with the ideas of individual freedom and restrictions on government attached to it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

as long as liberal laws prevent people from protecting themselves gun violence will always be an issue. criminals know they have the edge

Gonzaga Students Hit With Probation for Pulling Gun on Intruder | ABC News Blogs - Yahoo

..Gonzaga Students Hit With Probation for Pulling Gun on Intruder
..By ABC News
..Posts..By ABC News | ABC News Blogs – 2 hours 43 minutes ago
....Email0Share149
Share0Print.....
.....
ABC News' Mosheh Gains and Sandra Petrykowski report:

Two Gonzaga University students are on indefinite probation for pulling out a gun when an intruder allegedly tried to force his way into their university-owned apartment.

Erik Fagan and Dan McIntosh were notified Sunday in a letter from the Spokane, Wash., university they had been placed on indefinite probation for violating the school's weapons policy Oct. 24 when a six-time felon knocked on their door and allegedly demanded money.

Fagan said he answered the door to their apartment when he confronted John Taylor, a repeat offender who told him he'd just gotten out of jail.

Clearly, the university, and all those who support its policy, would rather have seen these guys defenseless - and therefore dependent on the state for their safety.

The state, see, should have a monopoly on force.

 

[M14 Shooter]

When drunk driving was rampant, the legal limit was tightened.

The decrease in injures/deatfh from drunk driving did not happen unitil states increased their punishment of those who drive drunk.
The lesson: if you want to curtail criminal behavior, effectively punish those that break the law,

When gun violence is rampant, conservatives talk about Thomas Jefferson.

When anti-gun loons talk about guns and gun control, their arguments eminate from their asses.

 

[Geaux4it]

The beauty of the Second Amendment is, it will not be needed until they try to take it away.

Guess who?

-Geaux

 

[Spoonman]

When drunk driving was rampant, the legal limit was tightened. When lung cancer was rampant, cigarette machines disappeared and smoking in public curtailed. When gun violence is rampant, conservatives talk about Thomas Jefferson.

No wonder they've won the pop vote for the white house once in two decades. Good work.

drunk driving is not down, cigarette smoking is on the rise again.

 

[Pogo]

Webster isn't a political science book but the first link I get says:
lib·er·al (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
1.
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Political terms, such as liberal, have been used for years, decades and centuries, but their definitions have acquired new meaning over the course of time. The main modern source for defining words in the English language, the Merriam-Webster dictionary, offers as its first definition of liberal, "believing that government should be active in supporting social and political change" (I noticed you failed to include that most important definition.) It also gives leftist and liberal as synonyms. You will find most modern political sources give a similar political meaning to liberal or liberalism. I wonder if you believe firmly enough in your political positions, since you seem uncomfortable with the title liberal and all the government- involvement dogma attached to it. I, for one, am not ashamed to label myself a political conservative, and am comfortable with the ideas of individual freedom and restrictions on government attached to it.

Once again -- M-W is a dictionary, not a political science resource. My citation was from FreeDic and I omitted nothing pertinent to politics (I linked it; go look for yourself). It would appear your Merriam Webster is wrong (I'm taking your word that that's what it says) because liberal and leftist are in no way synonymous. What would be the point of that? Liberal and "government involvement" are in fact antithetical. Liberalism is opposed by both the left and the right.

I did leave you a link that explained all this. You might try reading it. Matter of fact I'd say it would behoove you to spend more time listening/reading and less time spewing before you know what you're talking about.

And no I'm not at all "uncomfortable"; Liberalism is what founded this country and wrote the Second Amendment, Bub. But I will correct you when you try to distort what it is.

Edit: I really didn't want to waste the time but I checked Merriam Webster anyway, and it does not say what you claimed -- to wit:

>> Full Definition of LIBERALISM

1
: the quality or state of being liberal
2
a often capitalized : a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity
b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard
c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties; specifically : such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities (as those involving race, gender, or class)
d capitalized : the principles and policies of a Liberal party << (link here)

Not a great definition, particularly the "crucial instrument" part, but also not what you quoted. It does however list left, leftism and left wing as synonyms, which is erroneous.

For what it's worth historically, this attempt at demonizing the word liberal comes from the dark McCarthy days; it was a desperation tactic when Democrats were in power to paint them as communists or communist sympathizers and polarize political discourse into a juvenile "good" and "evil" dichotomy. George Bush the First revived it in the 1988 Presidential campaign too. But I'll be damned if I'm going to start misusing a definition I know better just because Joe McCarthy and Rush Limblob want to score cheap political sport-points.

 

[Pogo]

When drunk driving was rampant, the legal limit was tightened. When lung cancer was rampant, cigarette machines disappeared and smoking in public curtailed. When gun violence is rampant, conservatives talk about Thomas Jefferson.

No wonder they've won the pop vote for the white house once in two decades. Good work.

drunk driving is not down, cigarette smoking is on the rise again.

Where do you get either of those ideas?

 

[kaz]

When drunk driving was rampant, the legal limit was tightened. When lung cancer was rampant, cigarette machines disappeared and smoking in public curtailed. When gun violence is rampant, conservatives talk about Thomas Jefferson.

No wonder they've won the pop vote for the white house once in two decades. Good work.

In what possible way are drunk driving and lung cancer like guns?

Guns can be used for good or bad, and the bad is a tiny fraction of 1%.

1) When are drunk driving or lung cancer good?

2) When do you use drunk driving to protect yourself from drunk drivers or lung cancer to protect yourself from lung cancer?

3) When do you use drunk driving for sports, hunting or collect them?

This is just a completely bogus argument.

 

[kaz]

Webster isn't a political science book but the first link I get says:
lib·er·al (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
1.
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

-- which in turn gives:
lib·er·al·ism (lbr--lzm, lbr-)
n.
1. The state or quality of being liberal.
2.
a. A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority. -- Free Dic

Today the people who call themselves that are none of those things. They are authoritarians wallowing in bigotry and hatred. Calling a modern leftist a "liberal" is like calling Obamacare "affordable."

Liberalism is what founded this country and gave us the Second Amendment, so be careful what you demonize.

Yes, but that's a redefinition game. True liberals today are called "libertarians." And the founding father's ideology was extremely libertarian. Government, particularly the central government, limited to enumerated powers, and those powers are the functions which can only be performed by the central government.

There is no overlap at all between a 1700's "liberal" and a 1900/2000's liberal.

 

[kaz]

The state, see, should have a monopoly on force.

Ding, ding, ding. Modern leftists are authoritarian. Of course they want only government to have legitimate force.

 

[kaz]

Liberal may be used as an adjective. Liberal agenda works, since liberal and leftist are synonyms.

Yes. The Modern Americam Liberal is a leftist; the terms are synonyms.

Perhaps for those who live in fables but I think your expertise is guns.

Better stick to that.

Give an example in contemporary America of a liberal who is not a leftist and a leftist who is not a liberal to enlighten us.

 

[BlackSand]

Yes. The Modern Americam Liberal is a leftist; the terms are synonyms.

Perhaps for those who live in fables but I think your expertise is guns.

Better stick to that.

Give an example in contemporary America of a liberal who is not a leftist and a leftist who is not a liberal to enlighten us.

I am a firm believer in the fact that identifying the similarities in a liberal and leftist will eventually lead us to keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.
I am not equally certain that the left will be too happy about it though.

.