Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[rdean]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

Bobby Jindal made gun ownership a fundamental right via constitution right in his own state. That means felons and rapists and bank robbers can't be denied guns.

I'm pretty sure Democrats won't do that.

 

[Pogo]

Why does it matter what the delivery method is? So it's other factors, not a gun, that cause high rates of homicide?

-Geaux

Wtf part of this is not clear??

It matters because you cannot make a point about guns by citing homicide stats. To do that you need gun stats. Just as you cannot make a point about nutrition by citing potato stats.

WTF do you not understand?

What part of that guns do not cause high rates of homicide but other factors do?



-Geaux

 

[Geaux4it]

Confusing liberals with facts | Washington Times Communities

Confusing liberals with facts

WASHINGTON, July 21, 2013 — It is not a good idea to confuse liberals with facts.
It is an excellent idea.

When you confront a rational person with the facts, the rational person will usually stop and consider their position in light of facts they did not know.

While most liberals react with anger and shock that their pet beliefs are disproved, there are some who will listen. And those are the ones we should be trumpeting the latest shattered liberal myth to do so.
President Barack Obama spent $10 million of taxpayer dollars to have the Center for Disease Control to create a report that would help his war on the Second Amendment. Unfortunately for Obama, that one blew up in his face.

The CDC reported that armed victims had “consistently lower injury rates” than people who used other forms of self-defense. Presumably this includes the liberal’s favorite self-defense technique, the rape whistle.
Another interesting components of the report was that almost two thirds of the deaths from the use of firearms were suicides. That’s right: They were not homicides. They were suicides.

The CDC report did a great job of shredding another liberal myth. Liberals love gun “turn in” programs. Every time a big city police department, led by liberal mayors and other liberal officials, does a gun buy back or turn in program, there is always a lot of media.

Guess what? The researchers from the CDC discovered those programs were “ineffective.” That result should come as a shock to no one who is capable of thinking and actually looks at the issue.
The left always wants to make war on the Second Amendment and the right to self-defense. These are the best and most effective rights we have as Americans. The left has an obsession with making America defenseless. They do it at the national level when they not only gut our defense but also have an almost pathological hatred for missile defense. At the personal level, they do not want Americans armed. They do not even want Americans to be able to have any capacity to defend themselves.

The left’s latest cause is the so-called “Stand your ground” laws. The liberals who attack “Stand your ground” laws are even more clueless than your typical liberal. There is no such thing as “stand your ground.”
American jurisprudence has always said there is a right to self-defense. Some states have imposed a duty to retreat before using force. A majority of states do not require that.

The left wants dependency. They want Americans dependent on welfare and the government for everything. Wanting Americans to be dependent on the government for their safety is nothing new. Perhaps liberals should be reminded that when seconds count, help from the government is at best, only minutes away.

 

[BlackSand]

Wtf part of this is not clear??

It matters because you cannot make a point about guns by citing homicide stats. To do that you need gun stats. Just as you cannot make a point about nutrition by citing potato stats.

I think the point he is trying to make is that the United States has 270,000,000 firearms … and 2.97 firearm homicides per 100,000 people.
Then take for instance South Africa with a measly 5,950,000 firearms ... and 17.03 firearm homicides per 100,000 people.
The numbers are not even close ... And very telling.

You can argue with it all you want … But that doesn't change anything.

.

 

[Pogo]

Wtf part of this is not clear??

It matters because you cannot make a point about guns by citing homicide stats. To do that you need gun stats. Just as you cannot make a point about nutrition by citing potato stats.

I think the point he is trying to make is that the United States has 270,000,000 firearms … and 2.97 firearm homicides per 100,000 people.
Then take for instance South Africa with a measly 5,950,000 firearms ... and 17.03 firearm homicides per 100,000 people.
The numbers are not even close ... And very telling.

You can argue with it all you want … But that doesn't change anything.

.

Argue what? Nobody's making an argument, and that's not what he said. He claimed (without a source) that X number of homicides happened in various places. I pointed out that "homicides" are not necessarily "firearm homicides", so he hasn't yet made a point.

He was supposed to be looking up something... said he was... but you can't argue a point before one has been made.

Btw the sourcing thing is kind of important since the same poster was busted a few weeks ago for running a bogus Vladimir Putin quote in his tagline...

 

[Geaux4it]

Wtf part of this is not clear??

It matters because you cannot make a point about guns by citing homicide stats. To do that you need gun stats. Just as you cannot make a point about nutrition by citing potato stats.

I think the point he is trying to make is that the United States has 270,000,000 firearms … and 2.97 firearm homicides per 100,000 people.
Then take for instance South Africa with a measly 5,950,000 firearms ... and 17.03 firearm homicides per 100,000 people.
The numbers are not even close ... And very telling.

You can argue with it all you want … But that doesn't change anything.

.

Argue what? Nobody's making an argument, and that's not what he said. He claimed (without a source) that X number of homicides happened in various places. I pointed out that "homicides" are not necessarily "firearm homicides", so he hasn't yet made a point.

He was supposed to be looking up something... said he was... but you can't argue a point before one has been made.

Btw the sourcing thing is kind of important since the same poster was busted a few weeks ago for running a bogus Vladimir Putin quote in his tagline...

Listen, I will speak slower.... The point is, firearms are not the cause of high rates of homicides as you continue to point out. I agree with you here, lighten up.

As for Putin?

-Geaux

 

[Pogo]

I think the point he is trying to make is that the United States has 270,000,000 firearms … and 2.97 firearm homicides per 100,000 people.
Then take for instance South Africa with a measly 5,950,000 firearms ... and 17.03 firearm homicides per 100,000 people.
The numbers are not even close ... And very telling.

You can argue with it all you want … But that doesn't change anything.

.

Argue what? Nobody's making an argument, and that's not what he said. He claimed (without a source) that X number of homicides happened in various places. I pointed out that "homicides" are not necessarily "firearm homicides", so he hasn't yet made a point.

He was supposed to be looking up something... said he was... but you can't argue a point before one has been made.

Btw the sourcing thing is kind of important since the same poster was busted a few weeks ago for running a bogus Vladimir Putin quote in his tagline...

Listen, I will speak slower.... The point is, firearms are not the cause of high rates of homicides as you continue to point out. I agree with you here, lighten up.

As for Putin?

-Geaux

All I pointed out was that you established no point. And now we see your source was apparently the same place you got your bogus Putin quote.

Thanks for playin', Vlad.

 

[KevinWestern]

You can take guns away from law abiding citizens, but you can never take them away from criminals or the government.

That's the problem with gun control.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Sanford Police Chief Walks Back “No Guns on Neighborhood Watch” Policy

Posted by Andrew Branca Wednesday, November 6, 2013 at 8:44am

Thanks for the mention, Jon!

--Andrew, [MENTION=45956]LawSelfDefense[/MENTION]

Hey Welcome aboard !

Hope to see you adding your two cents from time to time

 

[jon_berzerk]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

Bobby Jindal made gun ownership a fundamental right via constitution right in his own state. That means felons and rapists and bank robbers can't be denied guns.

I'm pretty sure Democrats won't do that.

where do you come up with that crap

 

[BlackSand]

Argue what? Nobody's making an argument, and that's not what he said. He claimed (without a source) that X number of homicides happened in various places. I pointed out that "homicides" are not necessarily "firearm homicides", so he hasn't yet made a point.

He was supposed to be looking up something... said he was... but you can't argue a point before one has been made.

Btw the sourcing thing is kind of important since the same poster was busted a few weeks ago for running a bogus Vladimir Putin quote in his tagline...

Oh ... I am sorry ... I didn't know you couldn't type, or navigate a website.
Note that Geaux cited the 2012 UNODC rates and that the site has been updated to include 2013 ... It also includes both "International Homicide" rates as well as "Homicide by Firearm" rates.

UNODC homicide statistics

.

 

[BlackSand]

Bobby Jindal made gun ownership a fundamental right via constitution right in his own state. That means felons and rapists and bank robbers can't be denied guns.

I'm pretty sure Democrats won't do that.

where do you come up with that crap

Uh ... Bobby Jindal cannot make the Louisiana State Constitution say one thing or another.

The Citizens of the state of Louisiana ratified (with a 75% margin) the constitutional amendment making gun ownership in Louisiana a "Fundamental Right".

It states ...

"The right of individuals to acquire, keep, possess, transport, carry, transfer, and use arms for defense of life and liberty, and for all other legitimate purposes, ...
is fundamental and shall not be denied or infringed, and any restriction on this right must be subjected to strict scrutiny."

Albeit ... rdean's comment is incorrect since it doesn't specifically state that felons are allowed weapons.
There is a case before the Louisiana Supreme Court involving a felon and the newly ratified amendment ... But it hasn't been heard yet.

Louisiana Supreme Court to hear argument on whether law barring felons from guns is constitutional | NOLA.com

.

 

[Pogo]

Argue what? Nobody's making an argument, and that's not what he said. He claimed (without a source) that X number of homicides happened in various places. I pointed out that "homicides" are not necessarily "firearm homicides", so he hasn't yet made a point.

He was supposed to be looking up something... said he was... but you can't argue a point before one has been made.

Btw the sourcing thing is kind of important since the same poster was busted a few weeks ago for running a bogus Vladimir Putin quote in his tagline...

Oh ... I am sorry ... I didn't know you couldn't type, or navigate a website.
Note that Geaux cited the 2012 UNODC rates and that the site has been updated to include 2013 ... It also includes both "International Homicide" rates as well as "Homicide by Firearm" rates.

UNODC homicide statistics

.

THERE WAS NO WEBSITE, Dumbass. He never came up with a link. He just posted his own words -- and as already noted, he's posted bogus shit before.

Nice to know you can read websites that aren't there. Save me some of those mushrooms.

Some of you clowns go through unspeakable contortions to claim that yes the Emperor IS wearing clothes...

 

[BlackSand]

THERE WAS NO WEBSITE, Dumbass. He never came up with a link. He just posted his own words -- and as already noted, he's posted bogus shit before.

Nice to know you can read websites that aren't there. Save me some of those mushrooms.

He stated the source ... I just provided you with the link since you couldn't find it on your own.

.

 

[Pogo]

THERE WAS NO WEBSITE, Dumbass. He never came up with a link. He just posted his own words -- and as already noted, he's posted bogus shit before.

Nice to know you can read websites that aren't there. Save me some of those mushrooms.

He stated the source ... I just provided you with the link since you couldn't find it on your own.

Exactly how dim are you? How is it my job to go do his homework for him, a known fabricator??

Holy shit it's dense in here...

 

[BlackSand]

Exactly how dim are you? How is it my job to go do his homework for him, a known fabricator??

Holy shit it's dense in here...

He stated the source ... If you want to argue with it ... Do your own damn homework.

.

 

[Pogo]

Exactly how dim are you? How is it my job to go do his homework for him, a known fabricator??

Holy shit it's dense in here...

He stated the source ... If you want to argue with it ... Do your own damn homework.

I guess I have to explain this is real tiny words...

IT'S NOT MY HOMEWORK, DUMBASS.

HE made a point, or thought he did. But he brought no basis to the table. All I did was note that. And he never fixed it.

The burden of proof is his -- not mine. I don't even care about what his point is. This is, like the most basic rule of word things.

THIS is what a link looks like:

Russell's Teapot

When I make a claim, I link it -- I don't wait for you to do it. BECAUSE IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY.

Lord give me strength.....

"Run! Martians are invading the earth!!"

"Oh yeah? Where'd you hear that?

"Go look it up, do your own damn homework!"

 

[BlackSand]

I guess I have to explain this is real tiny words...

IT'S NOT MY HOMEWORK, DUMBASS.

HE made a point, or thought he did. But he brought no basis to the table. All I did was note that. And he never fixed it.

The burden of proof is his -- not mine. I don't even care about what his point is. This is, like the most basic rule of word things.

THIS is what a link looks like:

Russell's Teapot

When I make a claim, I link it -- I don't wait for you to do it. BECAUSE IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY.

Lord give me strength.....

"Run! Martians are invading the earth!!"

"Oh yeah? Where'd you hear that?

"Go look it up, do your own damn homework!"

Oh ... I get it ... You need to be spoon fed everything.

 

[Pogo]

You really are this stupid?

 

[rdean]

Bobby Jindal made gun ownership a fundamental right via constitution right in his own state. That means felons and rapists and bank robbers can't be denied guns.

I'm pretty sure Democrats won't do that.

where do you come up with that crap

Uh ... Bobby Jindal cannot make the Louisiana State Constitution say one thing or another.

The Citizens of the state of Louisiana ratified (with a 75% margin) the constitutional amendment making gun ownership in Louisiana a "Fundamental Right".

It states ...

"The right of individuals to acquire, keep, possess, transport, carry, transfer, and use arms for defense of life and liberty, and for all other legitimate purposes, ...
is fundamental and shall not be denied or infringed, and any restriction on this right must be subjected to strict scrutiny."

Albeit ... rdean's comment is incorrect since it doesn't specifically state that felons are allowed weapons.
There is a case before the Louisiana Supreme Court involving a felon and the newly ratified amendment ... But it hasn't been heard yet.

Louisiana Supreme Court to hear argument on whether law barring felons from guns is constitutional | NOLA.com

.

Aww, you chased it away.

Actually, some of it is a matter of perspective and some is just cold, hard facts.

Since Jindal sponsored this state constitutional amendment and pushed it and politicized it, it belongs to him.

It's the words "fundamental right" that makes all the difference. Voting is not a "fundamental right" because if you are a felon, you can lose the right to vote. A "fair" trial is a fundamental right and can't be denied to anyone, not even a murderer or a rapist. And that is the "pickle" Bobby put himself in. After a boner this big, he can never seriously run for president.

But the really disturbing thing is when you post these kinds of crazy ignorant right wing debacles, you get all these right wingers crying, "How do you come up with all this shit?" How can they know so little about the party they support? And they get really, really tired of being called "stupid".