Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[2aguy]

To punish people who do thing that society has deemed out bounds.
Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Only to punish people? Is that your final answer?

Ultimately, yes - criminal law gives the state the legal means to arrest, try, convict and punish people for actions that society has deemed out of bounds.

Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Nothing I've written contradicts the right to keep and bear arms. Why do you keep lying that licensing and registration will infringe those rights?

licensing implies you can't have a gun without a license that is infringement. Registration creates documentary evidence that can be used to confiscate all the arms when the government decides to do so. That also is infringement.

Really, the government is going to confiscate how many hundreds of millions of arms? That's funny. I suggest you get the CD by Ken Burns, Prohibition. It might open your mind to the enormity of the task which concerns you and the futality of it.

If you are concerned that such a task would be limited, and a house might be searched by an arbritary order of the executive, that is protected by the due process clause and the Fourth Amendment.

I've suggested that each state decide on whether it would choose to require a license or not, a law which might be put to the people in the form of a referandum.

What's wrong with having to have a license to own, possess or have in one's custody and control a gun?

They can easily ban specific categories of weapons, then move on item by item.

 

[2aguy]

So...tell me....does requiring a license to drive prevent people from driving drunk?

And before I start, driving is not the same as gun ownership. Gun ownership is a Right, not a priveledge.

So....you get a license and you drive drunk....they pull your license....if you drive drunk again you go to jail again.

Right now, that is how it works without having to get a license for a gun. If you commit a crime with a gun...you lose the right to own guns.

Done. No need to license anyone, it is already how we handle crime with guns. What you guys want is an extra, super dooper layer of paperwork....and it isn't needed, and does nothing when you implement it.

 

[rightwinger]

No speed limit will keep criminals from speeding; no license will keep people from driving, and no law will keep people for committing robberies, burglaries, rapes, larceny or spitting on the sidewalk.
So why have laws?

To punish people who do thing that society has deemed out bounds.
Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Only to punish people? Is that your final answer?

Ultimately, yes - criminal law gives the state the legal means to arrest, try, convict and punish people for actions that society has deemed out of bounds.

Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Nothing I've written contradicts the right to keep and bear arms. Why do you keep lying that licensing and registration will infringe those rights?

licensing implies you can't have a gun without a license that is infringement. Registration creates documentary evidence that can be used to confiscate all the arms when the government decides to do so. That also is infringement.

Neither constitutes an infringement on legal gun ownership. Only on those who should not own guns

 

[2aguy]

To punish people who do thing that society has deemed out bounds.
Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Only to punish people? Is that your final answer?

Ultimately, yes - criminal law gives the state the legal means to arrest, try, convict and punish people for actions that society has deemed out of bounds.

Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Nothing I've written contradicts the right to keep and bear arms. Why do you keep lying that licensing and registration will infringe those rights?

licensing implies you can't have a gun without a license that is infringement. Registration creates documentary evidence that can be used to confiscate all the arms when the government decides to do so. That also is infringement.

Neither constitutes an infringement on legal gun ownership. Only on those who should not own guns

Nope.....if it costs money to do either one then it is no different than a Poll Tax for voting and it is unConstitutional. You can't charge someone for the ability to exercise a Right.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

To punish people who do thing that society has deemed out bounds.
Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Only to punish people? Is that your final answer?

Ultimately, yes - criminal law gives the state the legal means to arrest, try, convict and punish people for actions that society has deemed out of bounds.

Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Nothing I've written contradicts the right to keep and bear arms. Why do you keep lying that licensing and registration will infringe those rights?

licensing implies you can't have a gun without a license that is infringement. Registration creates documentary evidence that can be used to confiscate all the arms when the government decides to do so. That also is infringement.

Really, the government is going to confiscate how many hundreds of millions of arms? That's funny. I suggest you get the CD by Ken Burns, Prohibition. It might open your mind to the enormity of the task which concerns you and the futality of it.

If you are concerned that such a task would be limited, and a house might be searched by an arbritary order of the executive, that is protected by the due process clause and the Fourth Amendment.

I've suggested that each state decide on whether it would choose to require a license or not, a law which might be put to the people in the form of a referandum.

What's wrong with having to have a license to own, possess or have in one's custody and control a gun?

The better question is, what's right with it?

 

[Wry Catcher]

No speed limit will keep criminals from speeding; no license will keep people from driving, and no law will keep people for committing robberies, burglaries, rapes, larceny or spitting on the sidewalk.
So why have laws?

To punish people who do thing that society has deemed out bounds.
Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Only to punish people? Is that your final answer?

Ultimately, yes - criminal law gives the state the legal means to arrest, try, convict and punish people for actions that society has deemed out of bounds.

Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Nothing I've written contradicts the right to keep and bear arms. Why do you keep lying that licensing and registration will infringe those rights?

licensing implies you can't have a gun without a license that is infringement. Registration creates documentary evidence that can be used to confiscate all the arms when the government decides to do so. That also is infringement.

Licensing does mean you can't buy or sell a gun without one. I thought that was clear. If you own a gun it does prevent you from selling it or buying one without a license.

If you own a gun now, it would be unconstitutional to charge you with having a gun and no license. Isn't that obvious?

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Stricter State Gun Laws Tied To Fewer U.S. Teens With Firearms
Source: Reuters

Researchers analyzed data on teen gun possession from a survey of U.S. high school students in 38 states and then examined how aggressively each of the states regulated firearm use with policies such as background checks before sales, minimum ages for purchase, bans on military-style assault weapons and limitations on use in public places.

In states with stricter gun laws, 5.7 percent of students surveyed said they had carried a gun in the past month, compared with 7.3 percent of their peers in states with more permissive gun laws. Adolescents were more likely to carry guns if adults in their home owned firearms, the study also found.

"The governments and adults in other developed countries have made it difficult for youth to access handguns, however, our study showed that about a quarter of U.S. adolescents reported easy access to a gun in their home," study co-author Ziming Xuan, a public health researcher at Boston University, said by email.

Approximately 15,000 teenagers aged 12 to 19 die in the U.S. each year and the top three causes are unintentional injuries, homicides and suicides, Xuan and co-author David Hemenway of Harvard University report in JAMA Pediatrics. Most of the homicides and almost half of the suicides involve guns.

Read more: Stricter State Gun Laws Tied To Fewer U.S. Teens With Firearms

 

[2aguy]

To punish people who do thing that society has deemed out bounds.
Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Only to punish people? Is that your final answer?

Ultimately, yes - criminal law gives the state the legal means to arrest, try, convict and punish people for actions that society has deemed out of bounds.

Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Nothing I've written contradicts the right to keep and bear arms. Why do you keep lying that licensing and registration will infringe those rights?

licensing implies you can't have a gun without a license that is infringement. Registration creates documentary evidence that can be used to confiscate all the arms when the government decides to do so. That also is infringement.

Licensing does mean you can't buy or sell a gun without one. I thought that was clear. If you own a gun it does prevent you from selling it or buying one without a license.

If you own a gun now, it would be unconstitutional to charge you with having a gun and no license. Isn't that obvious?

You realize that the current criminal shooting up democrat cities.....can't own guns right now....no license is needed to arrest them...now.

If you license law abiding people...they will sell to other people with licenses....and if they are a straw purchaser...like right now....they will still sell guns to criminals...like they do right now even though it is illegal right now to do that.....

What about that do you not fucking get............

Licensing is stupid, and does nothing to stop criminals, who can't own guns right now....from getting or using guns.


Mass Shooters..........just like all the other ones....they get a license, pass all the background checks, get 10 round magazines, only buy one gun a month.....

And then they go kill people....

Licensing is not needed to allow that to happen right now......

 

[2aguy]

Stricter State Gun Laws Tied To Fewer U.S. Teens With Firearms
Source: Reuters

Researchers analyzed data on teen gun possession from a survey of U.S. high school students in 38 states and then examined how aggressively each of the states regulated firearm use with policies such as background checks before sales, minimum ages for purchase, bans on military-style assault weapons and limitations on use in public places.

In states with stricter gun laws, 5.7 percent of students surveyed said they had carried a gun in the past month, compared with 7.3 percent of their peers in states with more permissive gun laws. Adolescents were more likely to carry guns if adults in their home owned firearms, the study also found.

"The governments and adults in other developed countries have made it difficult for youth to access handguns, however, our study showed that about a quarter of U.S. adolescents reported easy access to a gun in their home," study co-author Ziming Xuan, a public health researcher at Boston University, said by email.

Approximately 15,000 teenagers aged 12 to 19 die in the U.S. each year and the top three causes are unintentional injuries, homicides and suicides, Xuan and co-author David Hemenway of Harvard University report in JAMA Pediatrics. Most of the homicides and almost half of the suicides involve guns.

Read more: Stricter State Gun Laws Tied To Fewer U.S. Teens With Firearms

See...you used hemenway....the hack, and biased anit gunner.......

Teen agers in Japan kill themselves at a higher rate than our teenagers...and they have 0 access to guns there.....so again....failure.....

And how many accidental gun deaths of kids 14 and under in 2013......69. Deaths due to homicide...under 100. Notice....they don't say how many teens used guns for suicide...but that 15,000 number sure looks big, doesn't it.

This is another crap, anti gun study from hemenway.....

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

sure bro we do not have a gun problem...its perfectly normal to have mass gun killings once a week.....

 

[2aguy]

Stricter State Gun Laws Tied To Fewer U.S. Teens With Firearms
Source: Reuters

Researchers analyzed data on teen gun possession from a survey of U.S. high school students in 38 states and then examined how aggressively each of the states regulated firearm use with policies such as background checks before sales, minimum ages for purchase, bans on military-style assault weapons and limitations on use in public places.

In states with stricter gun laws, 5.7 percent of students surveyed said they had carried a gun in the past month, compared with 7.3 percent of their peers in states with more permissive gun laws. Adolescents were more likely to carry guns if adults in their home owned firearms, the study also found.

"The governments and adults in other developed countries have made it difficult for youth to access handguns, however, our study showed that about a quarter of U.S. adolescents reported easy access to a gun in their home," study co-author Ziming Xuan, a public health researcher at Boston University, said by email.

Approximately 15,000 teenagers aged 12 to 19 die in the U.S. each year and the top three causes are unintentional injuries, homicides and suicides, Xuan and co-author David Hemenway of Harvard University report in JAMA Pediatrics. Most of the homicides and almost half of the suicides involve guns.

Read more: Stricter State Gun Laws Tied To Fewer U.S. Teens With Firearms

I post this so I can get to the CDC table....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Here are the stats on some common types of death....it would be better to start a crusade to teach people how to walk upright...and save them from falling deaths...you would save more lives.....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

guns, drowning and poisoning....

If you cared about people....you would push to ban the following...


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Cars, Accidental deaths 2013......35,369

Poisons...accidental deaths 2013....38,851

Alcohol...accidental deaths 2013...29,001

gravity....accidental falling deaths 2013...30,208
Accidental drowning.....3,391
Accidental exposure to smoke, fire and flames.....2,760

Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39
Total: 69 ( in a country of 320 million people)


2012...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_09.pdf

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
So...accidental gun deaths have been coming down as more people own and carry guns for self defense....now 12.8 million people actually carry guns for self defense......on their person, and the accidental gun death rate is going down, not up....

 

[2aguy]

sure bro we do not have a gun problem...its perfectly normal to have mass gun killings once a week.....

Prove that...a link would be nice....let me guess....Mother Jones....the screwed up FBI report...

 

[2aguy]

Stricter State Gun Laws Tied To Fewer U.S. Teens With Firearms
Source: Reuters

Researchers analyzed data on teen gun possession from a survey of U.S. high school students in 38 states and then examined how aggressively each of the states regulated firearm use with policies such as background checks before sales, minimum ages for purchase, bans on military-style assault weapons and limitations on use in public places.

In states with stricter gun laws, 5.7 percent of students surveyed said they had carried a gun in the past month, compared with 7.3 percent of their peers in states with more permissive gun laws. Adolescents were more likely to carry guns if adults in their home owned firearms, the study also found.

"The governments and adults in other developed countries have made it difficult for youth to access handguns, however, our study showed that about a quarter of U.S. adolescents reported easy access to a gun in their home," study co-author Ziming Xuan, a public health researcher at Boston University, said by email.

Approximately 15,000 teenagers aged 12 to 19 die in the U.S. each year and the top three causes are unintentional injuries, homicides and suicides, Xuan and co-author David Hemenway of Harvard University report in JAMA Pediatrics. Most of the homicides and almost half of the suicides involve guns.

Read more: Stricter State Gun Laws Tied To Fewer U.S. Teens With Firearms

Sooo...from CDC table 10 from 2013.......

suicide by gun 14 and under.....138

Suicide by gun 15-25 (nice age range on this one) 2,210

So....out of a country of 320 million people....sucide is about 138 for actual kids.....since we can't break down the 15-25 age range...

And in Japan...much, much higher and all without guns....

And of course the suicide rate without guns in this country is up 19%....

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

It is perfectly normal to have movie theater shootings , shootings at schools shooting at malls...people shooting up mass numbers of people is Normal only crazy libruls think other wise

Data Show Mass Shootings Increasing in Frequency ...


do not be concerned the more shootings the more Freedom

 

[2aguy]

It is perfectly normal to have movie theater shootings , shootings at schools shooting at malls...people shooting up mass numbers of people is Normal only crazy libruls think other wise

Data Show Mass Shootings Increasing in Frequency ...


do not be concerned the more shootings the more Freedom

Sorry.....bad study......they don't give the details but you can bet they add things that shouldn't be added.....

Mass shootings are not on the increase...actual studies show this...

 

[2aguy]

It is perfectly normal to have movie theater shootings , shootings at schools shooting at malls...people shooting up mass numbers of people is Normal only crazy libruls think other wise

Data Show Mass Shootings Increasing in Frequency ...


do not be concerned the more shootings the more Freedom

And here is a study showing they aren't....

Congressional Research Service Releases Study of Mass Shootings

The Congressional Research Service (CRS) has just released a report on mass shootings, drawing on two large chunks of data. The first is the FBI's series of supplemental homicide reports from 1999 to 2013, as buttressed by various scholars who have done their best to fill the gaps and fix the errors in the police statistics. The second is a dataset assembled by Grant Duwe, a criminologist at the Minnesota Department of Corrections and the author of Mass Murder in the United States: A History. Duwe—who tells me he thinks the CRS "did a really good job"—looks specifically at mass public shootings, and his data go all the way back to 1970. (We'll get to the distinction between "mass shootings" and "mass public shootings" in a moment.)

**************

Those are raw totals, without taking population growth into account. If you look at the number of victims per capita, the average has gone up a little from 1970 to today but the numbers are so small that the fluctuations are essentially statistical noise. "Basically, there is no rise," says Fox, the Northeastern criminologist. "There are some years that are bad, some that are not so bad."

 

[Slyhunter]

...Nobody needs guns...

Prove this to be true.

Nobody needs a hand gun- that kills in most cases. Hunters and self protection don't need hand guns. But we are MILES from ever doing that...NRA and gun corps are far too stong and rich.

It's hard to walk around with a holstered rifle. I prefer a pistol.

 

[Slyhunter]

To punish people who do thing that society has deemed out bounds.
Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Only to punish people? Is that your final answer?

Ultimately, yes - criminal law gives the state the legal means to arrest, try, convict and punish people for actions that society has deemed out of bounds.

Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Nothing I've written contradicts the right to keep and bear arms. Why do you keep lying that licensing and registration will infringe those rights?

licensing implies you can't have a gun without a license that is infringement. Registration creates documentary evidence that can be used to confiscate all the arms when the government decides to do so. That also is infringement.

Really, the government is going to confiscate how many hundreds of millions of arms? That's funny. I suggest you get the CD by Ken Burns, Prohibition. It might open your mind to the enormity of the task which concerns you and the futality of it.

If you are concerned that such a task would be limited, and a house might be searched by an arbritary order of the executive, that is protected by the due process clause and the Fourth Amendment.

I've suggested that each state decide on whether it would choose to require a license or not, a law which might be put to the people in the form of a referandum.

What's wrong with having to have a license to own, possess or have in one's custody and control a gun?

It's wrong because it violates the second amendment restricting gun possession if you are going to require only people with licenses to own them.

 

[2aguy]

It is perfectly normal to have movie theater shootings , shootings at schools shooting at malls...people shooting up mass numbers of people is Normal only crazy libruls think other wise

Data Show Mass Shootings Increasing in Frequency ...


do not be concerned the more shootings the more Freedom

Notice....in your link...it states obama has lowered the number of people killed that makes a shooting qualify...I wonder why he did that.....perhaps to increase the numbers...

Here is another source...Mother Jones.....not a right wing, gun source....on all mass shootings..by year.....

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

Sooooo....


US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation



How many deaths on average according to Mother Jones...anti gun, uber left wing Mother Jones.......each year, well less than 100.

2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19


Those are the numbers of deaths from mass shootings in the United States.....and even in the big year, 2012, they didn't break 100 deaths by criminals.

How many guns are there in American hands....320 million.

How many people carry guns for self defense...over 12.8 million.

 

[Slyhunter]

To punish people who do thing that society has deemed out bounds.
Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Only to punish people? Is that your final answer?

Ultimately, yes - criminal law gives the state the legal means to arrest, try, convict and punish people for actions that society has deemed out of bounds.

Now tell us why we should enact your mindless proposals that will unconstitutionally and unnecessarily limit the rights of the law abiding but do nothing to prevent criminals from getting guns.

Nothing I've written contradicts the right to keep and bear arms. Why do you keep lying that licensing and registration will infringe those rights?

licensing implies you can't have a gun without a license that is infringement. Registration creates documentary evidence that can be used to confiscate all the arms when the government decides to do so. That also is infringement.

Neither constitutes an infringement on legal gun ownership. Only on those who should not own guns

All Americans are covered under the second amendment not just those with licenses or passes some test you make up.