LAPD Shoots Woman Hostage

[westwall]

They said at the beginning to load a beanbag! A woman is getting her head sawed off and some fool says load a bean bag?

What more evidence of incompetence do you need?

 

[WillowTree]

They said at the beginning to load a beanbag! A woman is getting her head sawed off and some fool says load a bean bag?

What more evidence of incompetence do you need?

Well, they are getting their asses sued. I just don’t think they should be punished for trying! Do you? If they were doing the job with poor training that’s not their fault is it?

 

[westwall]

Funny how in a CCW course you are taught in no uncertain terms, that you are 100% accountable for every round you discharge. Yet police are given special Lee way in consideration of so called “exceptional circumstances”. What a crock. As if a civilian using his gun in this same scenario would be given the same Lee way...

Yep. When I was stationed at Newport RI, I also became a member of the base Security Force. We were taught by the Gunny to have ammo control. That meant you didn't fire off your entire clip and then reload, it meant you took one to three shots, assessed the situation, and if more shots were required, another one to three shots, then reassess the situation. In range training, we were taught to fire from several different positions, and had a certain amount of shots you were to fire at each target. If you fired too many rounds at one target, you ran out of ammo before you finished the course.

Firing 18 shots at just one dude who has a hostage? That is a disaster just begging to happen. When they fired at him with the bean bag gun and he didn't go down, THAT is when they should have fired one or two shots to keep him from going after the woman in the walker. And, since the dude had a knife, did all three cops really need to fire at once? Shouldn't one have been designated as prime shooter, while the rest stood by as backup? Would have made more sense than firing 18 shots at the dude. With that many rounds being fired, she was sure to catch a bullet or two.

No, the cops need better training. I know that I got good training in the Navy, why is it so hard for the police to get good training?

Actually, that is how the cops are trained. The current technique is shoot and shoot more, as fast as you can. This was in response to the fact that cops tend to miss with about half their shots. It’s also why the cops went back to 9MM from .40. More ammo.

The technique you were trained on was called shoot, shoot, assess. It is the technique I still train with. Under that technique you ceased fire when the baddie was down. Now, you keep shooting as long as the corpse is twitching.

This is stage one and two of the FBI qualification course. Watch them all. It is not about accuracy. Especially not at three yards. It takes longer to draw your weapon than walk over and knee the baddie in the groin. It is about speed. How fast can you get the pistol out and shooting?

Interestingly enough tom cruise did some Gunsite training so he could be more believable in this role. This is with moderate level training. The second video shows what high level training will get you.

 

[westwall]

They said at the beginning to load a beanbag! A woman is getting her head sawed off and some fool says load a bean bag?

What more evidence of incompetence do you need?

Well, they are getting their asses sued. I just don’t think they should be punished for trying! Do you? If they were doing the job with poor training that’s not their fault is it?

The officers themselves? Yeah, I do. They made stupid decisions. Decisions have consequences. Don't worry though, whatever Judgement the victims families get will come out of the taxpayers pockets.

 

[WillowTree]

They said at the beginning to load a beanbag! A woman is getting her head sawed off and some fool says load a bean bag?

What more evidence of incompetence do you need?

Well, they are getting their asses sued. I just don’t think they should be punished for trying! Do you? If they were doing the job with poor training that’s not their fault is it?

The officers themselves? Yeah, I do. They made stupid decisions. Decisions have consequences. Don't worry though, whatever Judgement the victims families get will come out of the taxpayers pockets.

Well, if they received poor training which you claim they did, why would you expect them to make smart decisions?

 

[williepete]

No, they should have shot more accurately. Had it been me, or my friends that I shoot with, she would not have been hit.

Like I said earlier, since the dude only had a knife, they should have designated one officer as primary shooter, with the other two standing by as back up. There was no reason to fire 18 shots at the dude.

Interesting discussion and thanks to all with LE experience chiming in. My training and background is a bit different so please take my question as a genuine inquiry.

Wasn't this a job for a rifle or carbine? Don't the officers keep an AR-15 or surplus M-16/M-4 in their cruisers?

Pistols are hard on a good day. Under stress, worse. The worst shots on all Air Force Base ranges I requalified on were cops. Like someone wrote earlier, twice a year doesn't cut it.

 

[westwall]

They said at the beginning to load a beanbag! A woman is getting her head sawed off and some fool says load a bean bag?

What more evidence of incompetence do you need?

Well, they are getting their asses sued. I just don’t think they should be punished for trying! Do you? If they were doing the job with poor training that’s not their fault is it?

The officers themselves? Yeah, I do. They made stupid decisions. Decisions have consequences. Don't worry though, whatever Judgement the victims families get will come out of the taxpayers pockets.

Well, if they received poor training which you claim they did, why would you expect them to make smart decisions?

I don't. But that doesn't absolve them from responsibility for killing the woman now does it. She was alive, and they killed her. It's pretty simple.

 

[westwall]

No, they should have shot more accurately. Had it been me, or my friends that I shoot with, she would not have been hit.

Like I said earlier, since the dude only had a knife, they should have designated one officer as primary shooter, with the other two standing by as back up. There was no reason to fire 18 shots at the dude.

Interesting discussion and thanks to all with LE experience chiming in. My training and background is a bit different so please take my question as a genuine inquiry.

Wasn't this a job for a rifle or carbine? Don't the officers keep an AR-15 or surplus M-16/M-4 in their cruisers?

Pistols are hard on a good day. Under stress, worse. The worst shots on all Air Force Base ranges I requalified on were cops. Like someone wrote earlier, twice a year doesn't cut it.

It is the very rare officer who carries an AR in their cruiser in Cali. Generally only the more rural departments do that. And no, at the range that this shooting occurred a pistol was just fine.

 

[WillowTree]

They said at the beginning to load a beanbag! A woman is getting her head sawed off and some fool says load a bean bag?

What more evidence of incompetence do you need?

Well, they are getting their asses sued. I just don’t think they should be punished for trying! Do you? If they were doing the job with poor training that’s not their fault is it?

The officers themselves? Yeah, I do. They made stupid decisions. Decisions have consequences. Don't worry though, whatever Judgement the victims families get will come out of the taxpayers pockets.

Well, if they received poor training which you claim they did, why would you expect them to make smart decisions?

I don't. But that doesn't absolve them from responsibility for killing the woman now does it. She was alive, and they killed her. It's pretty simple.

Yes! She is! They will punish themselves mightily! Me? I hold Mr. I came for a better life responsible and those who did not train the police correctly!

 

[westwall]

What more evidence of incompetence do you need?

Well, they are getting their asses sued. I just don’t think they should be punished for trying! Do you? If they were doing the job with poor training that’s not their fault is it?

The officers themselves? Yeah, I do. They made stupid decisions. Decisions have consequences. Don't worry though, whatever Judgement the victims families get will come out of the taxpayers pockets.

Well, if they received poor training which you claim they did, why would you expect them to make smart decisions?

I don't. But that doesn't absolve them from responsibility for killing the woman now does it. She was alive, and they killed her. It's pretty simple.

Yes! She is! They will punish themselves mightily! Me? I hold Mr. I came for a better life responsible and those who did not train the police correctly!

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. We don't know how they will feel. One thing that I DO know. The top brass is immune from the consequences of their actions for the most part. The one spotlight that can be shown on their philosophies, and failings, is by suing the department. That is the only way that change happens anymore.

 

[WillowTree]

Well, they are getting their asses sued. I just don’t think they should be punished for trying! Do you? If they were doing the job with poor training that’s not their fault is it?

The officers themselves? Yeah, I do. They made stupid decisions. Decisions have consequences. Don't worry though, whatever Judgement the victims families get will come out of the taxpayers pockets.

Well, if they received poor training which you claim they did, why would you expect them to make smart decisions?

I don't. But that doesn't absolve them from responsibility for killing the woman now does it. She was alive, and they killed her. It's pretty simple.

Yes! She is! They will punish themselves mightily! Me? I hold Mr. I came for a better life responsible and those who did not train the police correctly!

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. We don't know how they will feel. One thing that I DO know. The top brass is immune from the consequences of their actions for the most part. The one spotlight that can be shown on their philosophies, and failings, is by suing the department. That is the only way that change happens anymore.

Well see? If they had only used that bean bag everyone would have walked away! How long can you walk headless?

 

[westwall]

The officers themselves? Yeah, I do. They made stupid decisions. Decisions have consequences. Don't worry though, whatever Judgement the victims families get will come out of the taxpayers pockets.

Well, if they received poor training which you claim they did, why would you expect them to make smart decisions?

I don't. But that doesn't absolve them from responsibility for killing the woman now does it. She was alive, and they killed her. It's pretty simple.

Yes! She is! They will punish themselves mightily! Me? I hold Mr. I came for a better life responsible and those who did not train the police correctly!

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. We don't know how they will feel. One thing that I DO know. The top brass is immune from the consequences of their actions for the most part. The one spotlight that can be shown on their philosophies, and failings, is by suing the department. That is the only way that change happens anymore.

Well see? If they had only used that bean bag everyone would have walked away! How long can you walk headless?

Bean bags don't always work, and in that situation i would have shot the knife wielder the second he moved towards the woman. It's as simple as that. You can't let a knife wielder get within 22 feet of an intended target.

 

[WillowTree]

So! Why is everyone focused on the cops and not the attacker? It never seems to Fail!

 

[westwall]

So! Why is everyone focused on the cops and not the attacker? It never seems to Fail!

I think because the attacker is dead, so what else can be done to him.

 

[harmonica]

Truly a tragic end for that poor woman. Sadly, cops just aren't trained that well. Thus you are going to see far more of this sort of tragic end before the idiots in charge figure out they need to up the training for their people.

What should they have done? Stand and watch the dude saw her head off?

No, they should have shot more accurately. Had it been me, or my friends that I shoot with, she would not have been hit.

Quick question, do you think that all three officers needed to fire their weapons, and do you think that 18 shots were required to stop the dude? If it had been me with the people I trained with on Security Force, we would have designated one of us as primary shooter, with the other two as back up. I mean, if he had a gun it might have been different, but he only had a knife.

Nope. You place the officers, and whoever has the best angle takes the shot. As you say, the other two are merely back up if the first shooter fails.

The officer that was facing him full on and closest would have been designated as the primary shooter.

And, like I said, the closest officer was only 10 ft away, and could have gotten a clean head shot at the dude with the knife. Even if he would have cut her as he dropped dead, there would have been a better chance of saving her from a possibly severe knife wound than saving her from being shot twice.

yes, something was very wrong...he didn't have a pistol
what? there are 3 cops to the left with the hostage in their line of fire
this looks very stupid
common sense should tell them the cop to the jackass's right should be the only shooter -
and the cop looks very close

 

[harmonica]

No, they should have shot more accurately. Had it been me, or my friends that I shoot with, she would not have been hit.

Like I said earlier, since the dude only had a knife, they should have designated one officer as primary shooter, with the other two standing by as back up. There was no reason to fire 18 shots at the dude.

Interesting discussion and thanks to all with LE experience chiming in. My training and background is a bit different so please take my question as a genuine inquiry.

Wasn't this a job for a rifle or carbine? Don't the officers keep an AR-15 or surplus M-16/M-4 in their cruisers?

Pistols are hard on a good day. Under stress, worse. The worst shots on all Air Force Base ranges I requalified on were cops. Like someone wrote earlier, twice a year doesn't cut it.

you want them to go back and get their rifles?
....the jackass had a knife and no hostage in the initial moments-no need for a rifle--then everything happened fast

 

[williepete]

you want them to go back and get their rifles?

Hell no you fucking dumbass. I was asking a question as to which tool would be better in this situation.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

I hope his brown ass is in hell right now!

No he is in Democrat heaven, you know the place with pools of ice cold piss and the sun never shines and Hilly sings stand by your man all the time.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

No, they should have shot more accurately. Had it been me, or my friends that I shoot with, she would not have been hit.

Like I said earlier, since the dude only had a knife, they should have designated one officer as primary shooter, with the other two standing by as back up. There was no reason to fire 18 shots at the dude.

Interesting discussion and thanks to all with LE experience chiming in. My training and background is a bit different so please take my question as a genuine inquiry.

Wasn't this a job for a rifle or carbine? Don't the officers keep an AR-15 or surplus M-16/M-4 in their cruisers?

Pistols are hard on a good day. Under stress, worse. The worst shots on all Air Force Base ranges I requalified on were cops. Like someone wrote earlier, twice a year doesn't cut it.

you want them to go back and get their rifles?
....the jackass had a knife and no hostage in the initial moments-no need for a rifle--then everything happened fast

How did he get her? Did she try to talk him out of fighting the Cops, I thought they had tazers and could have taken both of them out.

 

[harmonica]

really goofy here...appear to be too much shooting/as we say in the military = no fire discipline
...but again, the cops are not psychiatrists and do not have the time sometimes to play doctor---so when a jackass gets blasted to hell, that's just the way it is
....so when any of these jackasses get shot, tough shit and it's good for the community
...booo hoooo he had mental problems --we don't care