Latest twist in JonBenet Ramsey case.

[pwjohn]

JonBenet Ramsey Case: Judge Orders DA To Show Why Secret Indictment Of Parents Should Remain Secret

In 1999, a grand jury in the brutal murder case of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey voted to indict her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. But then-Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter refused to sign it, citing that he could not prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

The indictment's existence was not known until earlier this year. Now a judge has ruled that the current Boulder DA Stan Garnett must show why the un-prosecuted indictment must remain secret.

"The court concludes that the secrecy required in the grand jury process is not compromised through a process that requires the presentment of the indictment in open court," Weld County Judge Robert Lowenbach wrote, The Boulder Daily Camera first reported. "Under this procedure, there is no breach of the secrecy and confidentiality expected in grand jury proceedings," Lowenbach continued. "It is ordered therefore that the defendant (Garnett) show cause why he should not be required to disclose the requested documents."

I still think the parents/brother knew who murdered her. I know DNA did not match at the murder scene, but I still think they were involved in some way. And what is the big secret still being hidden?

This is interesting. What on earth would make you think that ?

Just gut emotions. I also think the whole family was in on it with covering it all up. Mom, dad, brother. All of them.

Good enough than. I was just wondering.

 

[Gracie]

JonBenet Ramsey Case: Judge Orders DA To Show Why Secret Indictment Of Parents Should Remain Secret

In 1999, a grand jury in the brutal murder case of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey voted to indict her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. But then-Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter refused to sign it, citing that he could not prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

The indictment's existence was not known until earlier this year. Now a judge has ruled that the current Boulder DA Stan Garnett must show why the un-prosecuted indictment must remain secret.

"The court concludes that the secrecy required in the grand jury process is not compromised through a process that requires the presentment of the indictment in open court," Weld County Judge Robert Lowenbach wrote, The Boulder Daily Camera first reported. "Under this procedure, there is no breach of the secrecy and confidentiality expected in grand jury proceedings," Lowenbach continued. "It is ordered therefore that the defendant (Garnett) show cause why he should not be required to disclose the requested documents."

I still think the parents/brother knew who murdered her. I know DNA did not match at the murder scene, but I still think they were involved in some way. And what is the big secret still being hidden?

This is interesting. What on earth would make you think that ?

Just gut emotions. I also think the whole family was in on it with covering it all up. Mom, dad, brother. All of them.

They had the American dream. Nice family, friends, enough money, growing business. They had just had a nice holiday with more to come. NO history of violence there, none. The kids were in bed and you think someone woke up and just had to experience using a garrotte on the youngest? Remember, the stun gun, cord and black tape didn't match anything in the house. The Hi-tec boot prints matched nothing. There is foreign DNA from her body and clothing that has been used to clear suspects for years. Hair and fiber evidence remains unmatched.

It seems just wrong to ignore all that and blame the parents. Plenty of cases since prove intruders DO go in houses, do take children from their beds and do kill them.

ok.
But I ain't changing my opinion.

 

[jameson245]

I think the brother accidentally killed here as he was tormenting her with the garrote...and the parents protected him...

Burke was an innocent kid, not mean or even physically capable of doing this. He was cleared immediately and all theories going in that direction really are insane.

 

[jameson245]

JonBenet Ramsey Case: Judge Orders DA To Show Why Secret Indictment Of Parents Should Remain Secret

In 1999, a grand jury in the brutal murder case of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey voted to indict her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. But then-Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter refused to sign it, citing that he could not prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

The indictment's existence was not known until earlier this year. Now a judge has ruled that the current Boulder DA Stan Garnett must show why the un-prosecuted indictment must remain secret.

"The court concludes that the secrecy required in the grand jury process is not compromised through a process that requires the presentment of the indictment in open court," Weld County Judge Robert Lowenbach wrote, The Boulder Daily Camera first reported. "Under this procedure, there is no breach of the secrecy and confidentiality expected in grand jury proceedings," Lowenbach continued. "It is ordered therefore that the defendant (Garnett) show cause why he should not be required to disclose the requested documents."

I still think the parents/brother knew who murdered her. I know DNA did not match at the murder scene, but I still think they were involved in some way. And what is the big secret still being hidden?

This is interesting. What on earth would make you think that ?

Just gut emotions. I also think the whole family was in on it with covering it all up. Mom, dad, brother. All of them.

They had the American dream. Nice family, friends, enough money, growing business. They had just had a nice holiday with more to come. NO history of violence there, none. The kids were in bed and you think someone woke up and just had to experience using a garrotte on the youngest? Remember, the stun gun, cord and black tape didn't match anything in the house. The Hi-tec boot prints matched nothing. There is foreign DNA from her body and clothing that has been used to clear suspects for years. Hair and fiber evidence remains unmatched.

It seems just wrong to ignore all that and blame the parents. Plenty of cases since prove intruders DO go in houses, do take children from their beds and do kill them.

ok.
But I ain't changing my opinion.

That's ok. Some people just can't.

 

[Gracie]

Well, I find it a tad more than coinkydink that the house was thoroughly checked but lo and behold...sometime later that same night, Dad finds her body in the basement. Plenty of time to plant evidence with nothing matching any of them to lead to the immediate family.
All of them were involved.

Believe what you want. I plan to do the same.

 

[jameson245]

Well, I find it a tad more than coinkydink that the house was thoroughly checked but lo and behold...sometime later that same night, Dad finds her body in the basement. Plenty of time to plant evidence with nothing matching any of them to lead to the immediate family.
All of them were involved.

Believe what you want. I plan to do the same.

When police officer French went to the house that morning, he went into the basement looking for a point of entry or even a lurking intruder. He didn't find anyone, obviously, and didn't open the door to the windowless room because the door was locked on the outside. No one was hiding in there.

It was just 1 in the afternoon, not at night, when Detective Arndt sent the father and his friend to search the house, the entire house, looking for anything out of place. They searched and found the body. None of that is evidence against anyone involved.

As for planting evidence during that time, John and Patsy were surrounded by the Whites, the Fernies, the minister and police as well as victims' advocates. Hard to do any such thing under those circumstances.

But, as you say, you have made up your mind and have decided not to consider otherwise. My comments here will hopefully reach others more open to look at the facts as found in depositions and public interviews of people close to this investigation.

 

[Political Junky]

she was out there...i agree but enough to kill her beloved child...that just goes against the southern woman in her too much...but then we did spawn susan smith and blanche moore

And the one in TX that drowned all her kids.....but I think she had postpartum.

Her boyfriend didn't want her kids.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Could someone let me in on WTF is going on ?

All of a sudden there are Jon Benet threads all over, did something new in the case come out ?

 

[Gracie]

Could someone let me in on WTF is going on ?

All of a sudden there are Jon Benet threads all over, did something new in the case come out ?

No clue. I guess someone bumped them? I always click New Posts and don't pay much attention to the date the thread was initially started when I post in one.

 

[blastoff]

See Ramsey and his new squeeze now and then in a coffee shop in northern Michigan where he lives now. Don't talk much to others as their noses are pretty much into their phones/tablets all the time.

Isn't his new squeeze his wife?

He married again, after Patsy died. Big whoop.

Not sure if they married, but John hooked up with Beth Holloway, missing Natallee's mom. Locals claimed they were living together in or around Traverse City, MI. Saw them twice though in a coffee shop they frequent, but it's been 3-5 years ago and no idea if they're still together.

 

[Freewill]

Well, I find it a tad more than coinkydink that the house was thoroughly checked but lo and behold...sometime later that same night, Dad finds her body in the basement. Plenty of time to plant evidence with nothing matching any of them to lead to the immediate family.
All of them were involved.

Believe what you want. I plan to do the same.

When police officer French went to the house that morning, he went into the basement looking for a point of entry or even a lurking intruder. He didn't find anyone, obviously, and didn't open the door to the windowless room because the door was locked on the outside. No one was hiding in there.

It was just 1 in the afternoon, not at night, when Detective Arndt sent the father and his friend to search the house, the entire house, looking for anything out of place. They searched and found the body. None of that is evidence against anyone involved.

As for planting evidence during that time, John and Patsy were surrounded by the Whites, the Fernies, the minister and police as well as victims' advocates. Hard to do any such thing under those circumstances.

But, as you say, you have made up your mind and have decided not to consider otherwise. My comments here will hopefully reach others more open to look at the facts as found in depositions and public interviews of people close to this investigation.

What incompetent police department allows anyone other then themselves to search a crime scene? That in and of itself raises suspicion even though I am not sure it points towards any conclusions.

 

[jameson245]

she was out there...i agree but enough to kill her beloved child...that just goes against the southern woman in her too much...but then we did spawn susan smith and blanche moore

And the one in TX that drowned all her kids.....but I think she had postpartum.

Her boyfriend didn't want her kids.

Susan Smith's boyfriend didn't want the kids and she was unwilling to let their father have them. She clearly murdered those two innocent boys and I believe she should have gotten the death penalty.
Andrea Yates was insane at the time of the drownings.
The truth came out in both cases. There was no clear and convincing evidence of another suspect in either case.
The Ramsey case has plenty as found in Lou Smit's presentation, Judge Carnes declaration and the DA's clearing of the parents and public apology for wht the parents lived through.
Until people accept that and insist the intruder evidence be followed, the killer will be free to take more victims.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

JonBenet Ramsey Case: Judge Orders DA To Show Why Secret Indictment Of Parents Should Remain Secret

In 1999, a grand jury in the brutal murder case of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey voted to indict her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. But then-Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter refused to sign it, citing that he could not prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

The indictment's existence was not known until earlier this year. Now a judge has ruled that the current Boulder DA Stan Garnett must show why the un-prosecuted indictment must remain secret.

"The court concludes that the secrecy required in the grand jury process is not compromised through a process that requires the presentment of the indictment in open court," Weld County Judge Robert Lowenbach wrote, The Boulder Daily Camera first reported. "Under this procedure, there is no breach of the secrecy and confidentiality expected in grand jury proceedings," Lowenbach continued. "It is ordered therefore that the defendant (Garnett) show cause why he should not be required to disclose the requested documents."

I still think the parents/brother knew who murdered her. I know DNA did not match at the murder scene, but I still think they were involved in some way. And what is the big secret still being hidden?

As with OJ, everyone knows who murdered her...

 

[jameson245]

It is just 18 months shy of the 20th anniversary. Like the Lizzie Borden case, this discussion has never died and the mystery remains. I hope new discussion will encourage an informant to come forward with the informmation needed to expose the killer. Historical handwriting will match that of the ransom note, the DNA will match that found mixed with JonBenet's blood from the sexual assault. If her killer still lives, he is a danger. The subject is or should be of civil concern, a cautionary tale and call for honest investigation in future.

 

[jameson245]

See Ramsey and his new squeeze now and then in a coffee shop in northern Michigan where he lives now. Don't talk much to others as their noses are pretty much into their phones/tablets all the time.

Isn't his new squeeze his wife?

He married again, after Patsy died. Big whoop.

Not sure if they married, but John hooked up with Beth Holloway, missing Natallee's mom. Locals claimed they were living together in or around Traverse City, MI. Saw them twice though in a coffee shop they frequent, but it's been 3-5 years ago and no idea if they're still together.

They dated for a time but John is now married to Jan Russeau (sp?). I am happy for him.

 

[jameson245]

JonBenet Ramsey Case: Judge Orders DA To Show Why Secret Indictment Of Parents Should Remain Secret

In 1999, a grand jury in the brutal murder case of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey voted to indict her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. But then-Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter refused to sign it, citing that he could not prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

The indictment's existence was not known until earlier this year. Now a judge has ruled that the current Boulder DA Stan Garnett must show why the un-prosecuted indictment must remain secret.

"The court concludes that the secrecy required in the grand jury process is not compromised through a process that requires the presentment of the indictment in open court," Weld County Judge Robert Lowenbach wrote, The Boulder Daily Camera first reported. "Under this procedure, there is no breach of the secrecy and confidentiality expected in grand jury proceedings," Lowenbach continued. "It is ordered therefore that the defendant (Garnett) show cause why he should not be required to disclose the requested documents."

I still think the parents/brother knew who murdered her. I know DNA did not match at the murder scene, but I still think they were involved in some way. And what is the big secret still being hidden?

As with OJ, everyone knows who murdered her...

There is extensive convincing evidence it was an intruder as cited by Lou Smit in his resignation letter, in Federal Judge's decision in the Chris Wolf lawsuit, in DA Nary Lacy's clearing of and apology to the parents and in DA Hunter's decision not to bring a false case to trial.

An intruder did it and only those wanting to reject thoughts of monsters among us insist it was a domestic incident, no threat to them.

Well, I find it a tad more than coinkydink that the house was thoroughly checked but lo and behold...sometime later that same night, Dad finds her body in the basement. Plenty of time to plant evidence with nothing matching any of them to lead to the immediate family.
All of them were involved.

Believe what you want. I plan to do the same.

When police officer French went to the house that morning, he went into the basement looking for a point of entry or even a lurking intruder. He didn't find anyone, obviously, and didn't open the door to the windowless room because the door was locked on the outside. No one was hiding in there.

It was just 1 in the afternoon, not at night, when Detective Arndt sent the father and his friend to search the house, the entire house, looking for anything out of place. They searched and found the body. None of that is evidence against anyone involved.

As for planting evidence during that time, John and Patsy were surrounded by the Whites, the Fernies, the minister and police as well as victims' advocates. Hard to do any such thing under those circumstances.

But, as you say, you have made up your mind and have decided not to consider otherwise. My comments here will hopefully reach others more open to look at the facts as found in depositions and public interviews of people close to this investigation.

What incompetent police department allows anyone other then themselves to search a crime scene? That in and of itself raises suspicion even though I am not sure it points towards any conclusions.

What incompetant police department did that? Boulder's.
It was a bad day for a detective who asked for back-up and got none. But in itself it's not evidence that can prove who did this. The handwriting, the DNA, the fantasy he had of a crime involving a stun gun, cord and duct tape. Those things will link to, and possibly prove the guilt of, the guilty party in this case. I am hoping a discussion will get people to take a second look.

 

[Freewill]

JonBenet Ramsey Case: Judge Orders DA To Show Why Secret Indictment Of Parents Should Remain Secret

In 1999, a grand jury in the brutal murder case of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey voted to indict her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. But then-Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter refused to sign it, citing that he could not prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

The indictment's existence was not known until earlier this year. Now a judge has ruled that the current Boulder DA Stan Garnett must show why the un-prosecuted indictment must remain secret.

"The court concludes that the secrecy required in the grand jury process is not compromised through a process that requires the presentment of the indictment in open court," Weld County Judge Robert Lowenbach wrote, The Boulder Daily Camera first reported. "Under this procedure, there is no breach of the secrecy and confidentiality expected in grand jury proceedings," Lowenbach continued. "It is ordered therefore that the defendant (Garnett) show cause why he should not be required to disclose the requested documents."

I still think the parents/brother knew who murdered her. I know DNA did not match at the murder scene, but I still think they were involved in some way. And what is the big secret still being hidden?

As with OJ, everyone knows who murdered her...

There is extensive convincing evidence it was an intruder as cited by Lou Smit in his resignation letter, in Federal Judge's decision in the Chris Wolf lawsuit, in DA Nary Lacy's clearing of and apology to the parents and in DA Hunter's decision not to bring a false case to trial.

An intruder did it and only those wanting to reject thoughts of monsters among us insist it was a domestic incident, no threat to them.

Well, I find it a tad more than coinkydink that the house was thoroughly checked but lo and behold...sometime later that same night, Dad finds her body in the basement. Plenty of time to plant evidence with nothing matching any of them to lead to the immediate family.
All of them were involved.

Believe what you want. I plan to do the same.

When police officer French went to the house that morning, he went into the basement looking for a point of entry or even a lurking intruder. He didn't find anyone, obviously, and didn't open the door to the windowless room because the door was locked on the outside. No one was hiding in there.

It was just 1 in the afternoon, not at night, when Detective Arndt sent the father and his friend to search the house, the entire house, looking for anything out of place. They searched and found the body. None of that is evidence against anyone involved.

As for planting evidence during that time, John and Patsy were surrounded by the Whites, the Fernies, the minister and police as well as victims' advocates. Hard to do any such thing under those circumstances.

But, as you say, you have made up your mind and have decided not to consider otherwise. My comments here will hopefully reach others more open to look at the facts as found in depositions and public interviews of people close to this investigation.

What incompetent police department allows anyone other then themselves to search a crime scene? That in and of itself raises suspicion even though I am not sure it points towards any conclusions.

What incompetant police department did that? Boulder's.
It was a bad day for a detective who asked for back-up and got none. But in itself it's not evidence that can prove who did this. The handwriting, the DNA, the fantasy he had of a crime involving a stun gun, cord and duct tape. Those things will link to, and possibly prove the guilt of, the guilty party in this case. I am hoping a discussion will get people to take a second look.

It seems to me that whomever it was who wrote the letter they were known by the Ramseys'. Why else would someone hide the body in the house, knowing it would be found, then take the time to write a ransom note? They were also able to get into and out of the house, while committing a heineous murder all without detection, or as I recall, no clear evidence of how they did get into the house. Maybe the door was left open. But there was a reason the grand jury found enough evidence to charge the Ramseys' with putting a child in an unsafe location, or something to the effect I don't remember exactly. The DNA did later clear them but whose to know where the DNA might have come from and how long it was on the girl.

My opinion, the suspect bank is someone who knew the Ramseys' or were at least in the hourse before. Maybe a jealous competitor?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Case closed.

 

[jameson245]

It seems to me that whomever it was who wrote the letter they were known by the Ramseys'. Why else would someone hide the body in the house, knowing it would be found, then take the time to write a ransom note? They were also able to get into and out of the house, while committing a heineous murder all without detection, or as I recall, no clear evidence of how they did get into the house. Maybe the door was left open. But there was a reason the grand jury found enough evidence to charge the Ramseys' with putting a child in an unsafe location, or something to the effect I don't remember exactly. The DNA did later clear them but whose to know where the DNA might have come from and how long it was on the girl.

My opinion, the suspect bank is someone who knew the Ramseys' or were at least in the hourse before. Maybe a jealous competitor?[/QUOTE]

Ever done something really wrong? Gets the adrenolin going. Lou Smit said right from day 1 that the note was written before. No one, family or intruder, wrote that after killing JonBenet.

The point of entry was likely the broken basement window. Clearly no security system there, big enough to pass through and the debris was disturbed. On the spiderwebs left behind, well, unless you're a full marshmellow getting squeezed through that rectangular space you won't clean debris in the corners. The spiderwebs remaining were not lovely full webs but sticky bits. I have a web outside right now I have tried to wash away, swiped at with a broom, but it remains. I need to get a ladder and scrub it away. The spiderwebs aren't proof that no one went in or out that way.

Grand Juries are often used to indict that proverbial ham sandwich. Only the prosecution case is given and even information that would NEVER be allowed in trial is accepted. But what is missing is any exculpatory evidence the prosecution wants left out. And too, lots of times those jurors are only voting to indict because they really want to trust the police are sure about their position, that it is backed by EVIDENCE. Here, that wasn't the case, there was "clear and convincing evidence of an intruder". Like the DNA that cleared others in the first months, it should have cleared the family as well.

On the dna. It was under her nails and mixed with her blood in her panties. There is no innocent way to explain that. If she had not had a bath in a year and dna came onto us from all factory workers, there would have been many, many samples on this murdered child. There were not.

 

[jameson245]

Case closed.

So if I accuse you three times, if ten people accuse you three times, or a hundred... you're guilty?
The evidence clears them. The DNA mixed with her blood is still being compared in codis. The handwriting, according to Chief Beckner in a deposition, was not Patsy's. On a scale of 1-5 with 1 being a match and 5 being "no way", Patsy scored a 4.5. It's out there if you look, the truth.

Satire can be funny but if it is also promoting lies it's just cruel. On the other hand, some BORG posters did brag about calling them names in public spaces. More than once. So maybe I should jump the fence here, you think? Nope, I prefer to follow the evidence.