LaVoy Finicum, armed with a handgun, reached for his waistband just before he was shot

[Faun]

Meh, I highly doubt its a conspiracy so I'm betting they're not going to find anything.

Doesn't mean that I don't think the rancher's water and grazing rights vs environmentalist's issue that drove this doesn't need to be looked into - I've seen similar happen up here in Alaska - but I'm just not buying into the "Feds are trying to cover something up" in the shooting here.

4 agents assisted in covering up a lie ab

How would the feds now that an known armed individual reaching into his clothes where he was known to carry a firearm was carrying a gun in an inside pocket or in a shoulder holster.


that could very well be something that a jury will have to decide

Since it was a valid shoot. There won't be a jury for a criminal trial.

besides this is what the feds said

The investigation by the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office revealed that Finicum was killed by three bullets that entered through his back after he reached three times for a loaded handgun in his left jacket pocket, officials said during a news conference Tuesday in Bend.

So?

After the shooting they would have known that there was a handgun.


That has nothing to do with what the officers knew after he tried to run the barricade, almost ran down and officer, existed his vehicle and then reached into his jacket where he was known to carry a firearm.


>>>>

Since it was a valid shoot. There won't be a jury for a criminal trial.

a complaint was forwarded by the local investigators to the DOJ

the DOJ is conducting a criminal investigation of five officers involved in the shooting

No they arent. They are doing an investigation as a matter of procedure but its not a criminal investigation.

it has moved on from procedure to being sent to the DOJ

for criminal investigation

Which has nothing to do with Finicum's death. The shoot was deemed justifiable and the officers who shot Finicum are not under investigation.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Meh, I highly doubt its a conspiracy so I'm betting they're not going to find anything.

Doesn't mean that I don't think the rancher's water and grazing rights vs environmentalist's issue that drove this doesn't need to be looked into - I've seen similar happen up here in Alaska - but I'm just not buying into the "Feds are trying to cover something up" in the shooting here.

4 agents assisted in covering up a lie about firing shots at the suspects

that is conspiracy

 

[Skylar]

Meh, I highly doubt its a conspiracy so I'm betting they're not going to find anything.

Doesn't mean that I don't think the rancher's water and grazing rights vs environmentalist's issue that drove this doesn't need to be looked into - I've seen similar happen up here in Alaska - but I'm just not buying into the "Feds are trying to cover something up" in the shooting here.

4 agents assisted in covering up a lie about firing shots at the suspects

that is conspiracy

Not in Lavoy's death. As none of their bullets hit him.

Try again.

 

[jon_berzerk]

why even bother

you claim that they tried to disable the engine of the truck with light arm at best is asinine

why the fuck did they set up around a turn

why did they set up a circular firing squad

maybe it would have been better to set up road blocks

oh by the way

you must have missed this

Officials revealed for the first time at the news conference that Oregon State Police troopers apparently were not the only ones to shoot during the confrontation where most of the occupation's leaders were arrested and Finicum was killed.

An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in concealing the shots afterward, the local investigators found. The bullets didn't hit Finicum and didn't contribute to his death, but now all five agents, part of an elite national unit, are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department.

LaVoy Finicum supporters unpersuaded by official account of shooting

1. They did setup a road block. He (LaVoy) charged it at 70mph and almost ran over one of the officers manning it.

2. I never said the State Troopers were the only ones that fired their weapons that day.

3. If the FBI guys that discharged their weapons violated rules of engagement, then action against them in appropriate.



>>>>

the state cops as well fired on the truck while it was a approaching who gave the shoot to kill orders that day

lots of questions remain

rules of engagement --LOL so its a war against the peoples now

Were you born this stupid, or did you work at it? Rules of engagement? When you have said that you would not be taken alive, repeatedly claimed you were willing to die in a firefight with the authorities, and then disobey specific orders, what the hell do you think is going to happen. Finnicum committed suicide by cop.

they made sure of that

when they started shooting at him from a hundred yards down the road

then they lie about it

you consider that acceptable police enforcement

were you born that stupid

 

[Skylar]

Meh, I highly doubt its a conspiracy so I'm betting they're not going to find anything.

Doesn't mean that I don't think the rancher's water and grazing rights vs environmentalist's issue that drove this doesn't need to be looked into - I've seen similar happen up here in Alaska - but I'm just not buying into the "Feds are trying to cover something up" in the shooting here.

4 agents assisted in covering up a lie ab

How would the feds now that an known armed individual reaching into his clothes where he was known to carry a firearm was carrying a gun in an inside pocket or in a shoulder holster.


that could very well be something that a jury will have to decide

Since it was a valid shoot. There won't be a jury for a criminal trial.

besides this is what the feds said

The investigation by the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office revealed that Finicum was killed by three bullets that entered through his back after he reached three times for a loaded handgun in his left jacket pocket, officials said during a news conference Tuesday in Bend.

So?

After the shooting they would have known that there was a handgun.


That has nothing to do with what the officers knew after he tried to run the barricade, almost ran down and officer, existed his vehicle and then reached into his jacket where he was known to carry a firearm.


>>>>

Since it was a valid shoot. There won't be a jury for a criminal trial.

a complaint was forwarded by the local investigators to the DOJ

the DOJ is conducting a criminal investigation of five officers involved in the shooting

No they arent. They are doing an investigation as a matter of procedure but its not a criminal investigation.

it has moved on from procedure to being sent to the DOJ

for criminal investigation

Which has nothing to do with Finicum's death. The shoot was deemed justifiable and the officers who shot Finicum are not under investigation.

Jon knows that. He just really wishes you didn't.

 

[Old Rocks]

Meh, I highly doubt its a conspiracy so I'm betting they're not going to find anything.

Doesn't mean that I don't think the rancher's water and grazing rights vs environmentalist's issue that drove this doesn't need to be looked into - I've seen similar happen up here in Alaska - but I'm just not buying into the "Feds are trying to cover something up" in the shooting here.

Fellow, that is my home country. And there has been many missteps on the part of the Federal government on land issues. However, there has been a great deal of progress in Harney County toward all stakeholders in the land issue having a voice in the use of the land. This, in spite of a 2 year drought excarberating the issues.

Harney Ranchers Have Long, Varied History With Feds

Sharp’s ranch is a remote, snow-covered expanse of sagebrush and juniper. About a dozen pregnant cows lumber toward a stack of hay. His three horses “Buck,” “Ada” and “Star” stand watch under a juniper tree.

“Still the best way to get around on your property and check things is on horseback,” said Sharp. He has off highway vehicles, too. But riding “Buck” puts his cows at ease, and allows him to “become one of them,” he said.

Sharp grazes his cattle on about 1,000 acres of private land. But as a leader Oregon Cattlemen’s Association, he also works closely with ranchers who lease grazing permits from the BLM. He says that policies written in Washington D.C. don’t always work for rural Oregon.

“There will always I think be a certain amount of tension between the rural communities and the rancher and any federal agency like that,” Sharp said. “I think what is important is that how you resolve those issues when they occur.”



Sharp said, take for example, a threatened bird. One of those collaboration with the BLM involved protecting the greater sage grouse. He and other ranchers wanted to prove that they could conserve the grouse without an Endangered Species Act listing.

“I wanted to protect and do things right in conservation actions to protect the species so that restrictions wouldn’t be applied to my operation,” Sharp said.

Tom Sharp worked with agencies and local groups to create conservation agreements to protect the greater sage grouse.

Amanda Peacher/OPB

He helped lead the effort to craft Candidate Conservation Agreements between landowners, local agencies and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Through the agreements, landowners pledged to educe threats to the sage grouse by removing invasive species, nesting grounds and modifying fences so the birds would be less likely to collide with a fence while flying.

In exchange, landowners received assurances that they wouldn’t be required to take more action to protect the grouse, should the bird be listed.

He thinks the collaborative plan crafted by ranchers, the local BLM and conservationists works well. And he thinks federal agencies usually do a good job with things like wildfire suppression and efforts to reduce invasive species. Harney County includes more than 70 percent federal land, and he says he can’t imagine local residents having the bandwidth to manage all those acres.

 

[Skylar]

why even bother

you claim that they tried to disable the engine of the truck with light arm at best is asinine

why the fuck did they set up around a turn

why did they set up a circular firing squad

maybe it would have been better to set up road blocks

oh by the way

you must have missed this

Officials revealed for the first time at the news conference that Oregon State Police troopers apparently were not the only ones to shoot during the confrontation where most of the occupation's leaders were arrested and Finicum was killed.

An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in concealing the shots afterward, the local investigators found. The bullets didn't hit Finicum and didn't contribute to his death, but now all five agents, part of an elite national unit, are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department.

LaVoy Finicum supporters unpersuaded by official account of shooting

1. They did setup a road block. He (LaVoy) charged it at 70mph and almost ran over one of the officers manning it.

2. I never said the State Troopers were the only ones that fired their weapons that day.

3. If the FBI guys that discharged their weapons violated rules of engagement, then action against them in appropriate.



>>>>

the state cops as well fired on the truck while it was a approaching who gave the shoot to kill orders that day

lots of questions remain

rules of engagement --LOL so its a war against the peoples now

Were you born this stupid, or did you work at it? Rules of engagement? When you have said that you would not be taken alive, repeatedly claimed you were willing to die in a firefight with the authorities, and then disobey specific orders, what the hell do you think is going to happen. Finnicum committed suicide by cop.

they made sure of that

when they started shooting at him from a hundred yards down the road

Says who?

And of course, he was speeding toward a police blockade at speeds of upto 70 mph. He swerved his speeding truck about a second before hitting the blockade, missing the left most police SUV by inches.

If they had shot at him, they'd have been completely justified.

then they lie about it

you consider that acceptable police enforcement

were you born that stupid

Once again, not a single fed bullet hit Lavoy. Lavoy resisted arrest, sped away from officers attempting to execute a lawful warrant, led them on a high speed chase, tried to run a police blockade, tried to flee on foot, and then reached for a gun -twice- to murder an Oregon State Patrolman.

All of this after insisting that he wouldn't let himself be arrested.

The shooting was utterly justified.

 

[EverCurious]

Meh, I highly doubt its a conspiracy so I'm betting they're not going to find anything.

Doesn't mean that I don't think the rancher's water and grazing rights vs environmentalist's issue that drove this doesn't need to be looked into - I've seen similar happen up here in Alaska - but I'm just not buying into the "Feds are trying to cover something up" in the shooting here.

Fellow, that is my home country. And there has been many missteps on the part of the Federal government on land issues. However, there has been a great deal of progress in Harney County toward all stakeholders in the land issue having a voice in the use of the land. This, in spite of a 2 year drought excarberating the issues.

Harney Ranchers Have Long, Varied History With Feds

Sharp’s ranch is a remote, snow-covered expanse of sagebrush and juniper. About a dozen pregnant cows lumber toward a stack of hay. His three horses “Buck,” “Ada” and “Star” stand watch under a juniper tree.

“Still the best way to get around on your property and check things is on horseback,” said Sharp. He has off highway vehicles, too. But riding “Buck” puts his cows at ease, and allows him to “become one of them,” he said.

Sharp grazes his cattle on about 1,000 acres of private land. But as a leader Oregon Cattlemen’s Association, he also works closely with ranchers who lease grazing permits from the BLM. He says that policies written in Washington D.C. don’t always work for rural Oregon.

“There will always I think be a certain amount of tension between the rural communities and the rancher and any federal agency like that,” Sharp said. “I think what is important is that how you resolve those issues when they occur.”



Sharp said, take for example, a threatened bird. One of those collaboration with the BLM involved protecting the greater sage grouse. He and other ranchers wanted to prove that they could conserve the grouse without an Endangered Species Act listing.

“I wanted to protect and do things right in conservation actions to protect the species so that restrictions wouldn’t be applied to my operation,” Sharp said.

Tom Sharp worked with agencies and local groups to create conservation agreements to protect the greater sage grouse.

Amanda Peacher/OPB

He helped lead the effort to craft Candidate Conservation Agreements between landowners, local agencies and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Through the agreements, landowners pledged to educe threats to the sage grouse by removing invasive species, nesting grounds and modifying fences so the birds would be less likely to collide with a fence while flying.

In exchange, landowners received assurances that they wouldn’t be required to take more action to protect the grouse, should the bird be listed.

He thinks the collaborative plan crafted by ranchers, the local BLM and conservationists works well. And he thinks federal agencies usually do a good job with things like wildfire suppression and efforts to reduce invasive species. Harney County includes more than 70 percent federal land, and he says he can’t imagine local residents having the bandwidth to manage all those acres.

Thanks for that info, it's good to see. It is my hope that we can stop this silly "all or nothing" ideology in conservatism vs land use across the country. It is absolutely possible to have both wildlife preservation /and/ land use, we just have to find the appropriate balance for the specific parcel of land or animal habitat vs human induced disturbance to find co-existence without risk of extinction.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

He wasn't reaching for his gun. He was reaching for his kidney after being shot there.

This isn't the movies. People don't typically reach for where they've been shot. Even modern movies don't do that anymore because blood in films is no longer taboo thanks to The Wild Bunch.

from the video where he is reaching is not where the mouth of his inside pocket is or would be expected to be

He was reaching for or at his left pocket which is where his loaded 9mm was. Cops don't wait to make sure armed men fleeing custody are just reaching for their Iphones.

And how exactly cops knew there is a gun in his left pocket?

They didn't know, but cops don't wait to find out. When someone is ordered to get on the fround and instead reach for a pocket, cops are trained to open fire. If it were a black "thug" reaching for his "pocket", I'm sure you'd be just as circumspect, right?

 

[jon_berzerk]

He wasn't reaching for his gun. He was reaching for his kidney after being shot there.

This isn't the movies. People don't typically reach for where they've been shot. Even modern movies don't do that anymore because blood in films is no longer taboo thanks to The Wild Bunch.

from the video where he is reaching is not where the mouth of his inside pocket is or would be expected to be

He was reaching for or at his left pocket which is where his loaded 9mm was. Cops don't wait to make sure armed men fleeing custody are just reaching for their Iphones.

And how exactly cops knew there is a gun in his left pocket?

They didn't know, but cops don't wait to find out. When someone is ordered to get on the fround and instead reach for a pocket, cops are trained to open fire. If it were a black "thug" reaching for his "pocket", I'm sure you'd be just as circumspect, right?

it all went poorly that is for sure

however they started shooting at him as he was getting out of the truck

heck they started shooting at him a hundred yards down the road

 

[Coloradomtnman]

This isn't the movies. People don't typically reach for where they've been shot. Even modern movies don't do that anymore because blood in films is no longer taboo thanks to The Wild Bunch.

from the video where he is reaching is not where the mouth of his inside pocket is or would be expected to be

He was reaching for or at his left pocket which is where his loaded 9mm was. Cops don't wait to make sure armed men fleeing custody are just reaching for their Iphones.

And how exactly cops knew there is a gun in his left pocket?

They didn't know, but cops don't wait to find out. When someone is ordered to get on the fround and instead reach for a pocket, cops are trained to open fire. If it were a black "thug" reaching for his "pocket", I'm sure you'd be just as circumspect, right?

it all went poorly that is for sure

however they started shooting at him as he was getting out of the truck

heck they started shooting at him a hundred yards down the road

Yep.

Cops shoot at speeding vehicles which may be a threat to themselves or others. The FBI agents at the seen will probably receive a slap on the wrists, maybe we'll get lucky and they'll be fired. The state troopers who actually shot Finnicum did their jobs and I'm sorry they had to kill another human being; but it appears that it was either Finnicum or them.

 

[jon_berzerk]

from the video where he is reaching is not where the mouth of his inside pocket is or would be expected to be

He was reaching for or at his left pocket which is where his loaded 9mm was. Cops don't wait to make sure armed men fleeing custody are just reaching for their Iphones.

And how exactly cops knew there is a gun in his left pocket?

They didn't know, but cops don't wait to find out. When someone is ordered to get on the fround and instead reach for a pocket, cops are trained to open fire. If it were a black "thug" reaching for his "pocket", I'm sure you'd be just as circumspect, right?

it all went poorly that is for sure

however they started shooting at him as he was getting out of the truck

heck they started shooting at him a hundred yards down the road

Yep.

Cops shoot at speeding vehicles which may be a threat to themselves or others. The FBI agents at the seen will probably receive a slap on the wrists, maybe we'll get lucky and they'll be fired. The state troopers who actually shot Finnicum did their jobs and I'm sorry they had to kill another human being; but it appears that it was either Finnicum or them.

what a minute at that time all they did was flee an official stop

that is no reason to authorize deadly force

so they say up to speeds of 70

what is the posted speed in that area 65


why didnt they simply throw spike across the road

 

[Luddly Neddite]

He wasn't reaching for his gun. He was reaching for his kidney after being shot there.

This isn't the movies. People don't typically reach for where they've been shot. Even modern movies don't do that anymore because blood in films is no longer taboo thanks to The Wild Bunch.

from the video where he is reaching is not where the mouth of his inside pocket is or would be expected to be

He was reaching for or at his left pocket which is where his loaded 9mm was. Cops don't wait to make sure armed men fleeing custody are just reaching for their Iphones.

And how exactly cops knew there is a gun in his left pocket?

He had been armed all along. He had threatened law enforcement. He said he would not be taken alive. He was in Oregon in order to commit a crime of domestic terrorism.

Would YOU have ASSSumed he was unarmed?

 

[WorldWatcher]

what a minute at that time all they did was flee an official stop

that is no reason to authorize deadly force

so they say up to speeds of 70

what is the posted speed in that area 65


why didnt they simply throw spike across the road

Why didn't he stop instead of trying to run the police barricade and run over a police officer.

Why didn't he stay in the vehicle to then follow LEO instructions.

After jumping out of the vehicle, why didn't he not reach for his gun, keep his hand's up and follow LEO instructions.


You are trying to make Finicum the victim here, but in fact he was part of an armed takeover of a Federal building, was involved in a high speed chase, attempted to run a barricade almost running over a LEO, then attempted to draw a weapon on LEO's.


>>>>

 

[jon_berzerk]

what a minute at that time all they did was flee an official stop

that is no reason to authorize deadly force

so they say up to speeds of 70

what is the posted speed in that area 65


why didnt they simply throw spike across the road

Why didn't he stop instead of trying to run the police barricade and run over a police officer.

Why didn't he stay in the vehicle to then follow LEO instructions.

After jumping out of the vehicle, why didn't he not reach for his gun, keep his hand's up and follow LEO instructions.


You are trying to make Finicum the victim here, but in fact he was part of an armed takeover of a Federal building, was involved in a high speed chase, attempted to run a barricade almost running over a LEO, then attempted to draw a weapon on LEO's.


>>>>

people run from the cops all the time

quit lying you asshole i am not making finicum the victim

i am pointing out the flaws of state police and fbi

they handled everything that day poorly

and then lied about it to cover it up

 

[Steve_McGarrett]

He wasn't reaching for his gun. He was reaching for his kidney after being shot there.

This isn't the movies. People don't typically reach for where they've been shot. Even modern movies don't do that anymore because blood in films is no longer taboo thanks to The Wild Bunch.

from the video where he is reaching is not where the mouth of his inside pocket is or would be expected to be

He was reaching for or at his left pocket which is where his loaded 9mm was. Cops don't wait to make sure armed men fleeing custody are just reaching for their Iphones.

And how exactly cops knew there is a gun in his left pocket?

He was in Oregon in order to commit a crime of domestic terrorism.

Domestic terrorism! Lol........against whom and how? The man swerved to avoid hitting the barracade and a dumbass trooper who went out of his way to jump in front of the truck for some reason, probably to create the notion that Finicum tried to run down an officer justifying them to use deadly force. But no, Finicum immediately applied his brakes and got out instead of putting the peddle to the metal and attempting to go around the road block continuing on to see the sheriff that was waiting on him. He'll at the first road block Finicum can be heard right before he takes off telling one of the troopers to follow them to meet the sheriff with them. They fired a round at the truck instead as they left. The bottom line is the feds didn't want Finicum reaching the sheriff who agreed to meet him. Why couldn't the feds and troopers wait and arrest him in town?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

They had threatened law enforcement and the people who worked at the center. They had broken federal laws. They had stolen private and public property, they had been waving their guns around for weeks.

Did they think this would end with the cops throwing them a pancake breakfast?

I've read they left a horrible mess so that's even more damage. Let them sit in jail for a while.

 

[Skylar]

He was reaching for or at his left pocket which is where his loaded 9mm was. Cops don't wait to make sure armed men fleeing custody are just reaching for their Iphones.

And how exactly cops knew there is a gun in his left pocket?

They didn't know, but cops don't wait to find out. When someone is ordered to get on the fround and instead reach for a pocket, cops are trained to open fire. If it were a black "thug" reaching for his "pocket", I'm sure you'd be just as circumspect, right?

it all went poorly that is for sure

however they started shooting at him as he was getting out of the truck

heck they started shooting at him a hundred yards down the road

Yep.

Cops shoot at speeding vehicles which may be a threat to themselves or others. The FBI agents at the seen will probably receive a slap on the wrists, maybe we'll get lucky and they'll be fired. The state troopers who actually shot Finnicum did their jobs and I'm sorry they had to kill another human being; but it appears that it was either Finnicum or them.

what a minute at that time all they did was flee an official stop

that is no reason to authorize deadly force

He was fleeing from police, rushing directly toward a police barracade at up to 70 miles per hour, swerving about 1 second before slamming into the SUVs, missing the left most vehicle by mere inches.

Shooting at a vehicle rushing a police blockade is absolutely justified. As is shooting a man reaching for a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper

You don't seem to get how much damage the 'militia' ilk are doing to their reputations by polishing this turd. As we can watch the entire video of the incident. And it doesn't match your descriptions.

so they say up to speeds of 70

what is the posted speed in that area 65

Yeah, because a guy who refuses to surrender to a lawful felony warrant and lead the cops on a high speed chase can't possibly speed.

You're kinda reaching, Jon.

why didnt they simply throw spike across the road

Why didn't Finicum surrender to a lawful warrant and NOT drive up to 70mph straight at a police blockade?

 

[WorldWatcher]

quit lying you asshole i am not making finicum the victim

Sure you are, when you say things like "the state cops as well fired on the truck while it was a approaching who gave the shoot to kill orders that day" and "that is no reason to authorize deadly force".


He didn't "approach" he was traveling about 70 mph and appeared to be ready to crash into the barricade swerving at the last second into the snow almost running over a LEO.

Who "authorized deadly force" implies a conspiracy to kill Finicrum, LEO's are always authorized the use of deadly force to defend themselves and when an individual known to be armed is told to keep his hands up and instead yells "You will have to shoot me" and then reaches for a gun - there is no need to get "authorization" for deadly force. The authorization already exists under the law, you don't have to let someone shoot at you first before defending yourself.


>>>>

 

[Skylar]

They had threatened law enforcement and the people who worked at the center. They had broken federal laws. They had stolen private and public property, they had been waving their guns around for weeks.

Did they think this would end with the cops throwing them a pancake breakfast?

I've read they left a horrible mess so that's even more damage. Let them sit in jail for a while.

Even the 'militia movement' knew that the 'occupation' was an unmitigated clusterfuck.

As when the 'occupiers' put out the 'call'.......no one answered.